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Integra Type R's, Celica GTS, Prelude Sh, Eclipse GT, Which car is better

24

Comments

  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,137
    Look at Car & Driver's recent 7 car comparison test too (where the GTI came in 5th behind the GSR!):

    Prelude (base) was also 6.8s in 0-60 and 15.3 in the 1/4. I 'd say that makes them equal.
    Even the GSR came in 4th ahead of the GTI because of its better handling characteristics, road feel, gearbox, etc.
    The GTI lost to a car that has been unchanged for 7 years! (GSR) I 'm not bashing the GTI. I happen to like it for its respectable torque, afterall it's a V6, but speed alone does not tell the whole story..
  • hmmm well i was just checking some references
    and i doubt that the zx3 can do high 6s
    the hp and torque are around 130 if i am not mistaken
    unless your car is extremely modified with bolt on and other such sorts. i highly do not even think that. but if its true i am a sure buyer
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Not even t-charged Focus ZX3 could do better than a GS-R in a straight line run in one of the tests (Motor Trend?).
  • You're right about the blown focus zx3, it did seem a little slow in the test (I think it was in C&D where I saw it). Not so unusual for a very preproduction mule....

    (couldn't even beat a GS-R? I guess it WAS slow.....sorry man, sometimes I just can't help myself 8^)
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    For about 70 more horses, and 80 lb.-ft torque, and about same weight, it was slow!
  • Just out of curiosity, how did the Focus ZX3 get thrown in to this topic? I just can't see a potential buyer trying to decide between Prelude, Celica GTS, Integra Type R (or GS-R) or......Focus ZX3. (maybe vs. Cougar though...)
  • freddy_kfreddy_k Posts: 376
    I had come down to either the Celica or Prelude as my next car, leaning more on the side of the Celica. In my considerations were the VR6, Cougar and GSR. Then I sat in the Mazda Miata for the first time at the autoshow, and it seemed so comfortable and sporty and well built I had to test drive it. So I did.
    Anyway, aside then it's lack of acceleration and storage and passenger room, this little car that I never even thought to try before surpassed in fun and performance all those cars I was previously considering. I hate to say it, I always saw the miata as a 'chick car' but I am sold.
  • roadroachroadroach Posts: 131
    I have to agree, the Miata is a great little car. I had to have something with the capacity to carry more than just 2 people though so it just wasn't in my picture.
  • jk111jk111 Posts: 125
    Miata is a great car, direct feel with the road, and hella fun to drive. But don't try to drag race anyone with it >:)
  • mrspeedmrspeed Posts: 21
    I don't want to start a new topic so I'm posting here, since some of the cars mentioned here compete in the Speedvision Touring events: (quote from the SCCA proracing website http://www.sccaproracing.com/wc/index.html)
    "The Speedvision Touring Car
    Championship, dubbed “The Official Racing
    Series of the Sports Compact Revolution,”
    features the Acura Integra Type R, Audi A4,
    BMW 328, Ford Focus and Contour, Honda
    Accord, Civic Si and Prelude Si, Mazda
    Protege and 626, Mercury Cougar, Mercedes
    230, Nissan 240 SX, Pontiac Sunfire, Saturn
    SC, Subaru Legacy, Toyota Celica GTS and
    Volkswagen GTI and Jetta."

    In case anybody was wandering, the Type R has dominated since it came out, with BMW a distant second. The Celica GTS and Saleen (Ford) Focus are new this year.
  • mznmzn Posts: 727
    No need to start a new topic, please see our racing topic in the News & Views conference!

    carlady/host
  • cinemafiacinemafia Posts: 57
    I wonder of the mysterious 0-60 time posted previously was in fact from the Focus R? The Focus R, for those of you who don't know, is a pretty nicely tunes version of the zx3 hatch with a turbo and intercooler that makes about 200-220 hp.
    I'm dying to see what Saleen's done with the Focus though...where can I find some pics?? From all the oodles of money Ford's made off the Expedition/Explorer craze they've put together a very nicely researched and developed a really nice car that will live on in the hands of tuners/enthusiasts for at least a decade or two. It's kinda nice actually, I mean to have an American sport-hatchback that actually competes with encumbant Civics from Japan and re-invigorated Golfs from Germany. It's almost enough to give you a little pride in the U.S. auto industry...well ok that's a long shot, especially when the entire Chrysler company brings it down so far...lol.
  • cinemafiacinemafia Posts: 57
    Well I tried looking on Saleen website, but there's no mention of it...and I tried a search for "focus saleen" but turned up nothing...so uh, mrspeed, where the heck did you find any inof about it??!
  • mrspeedmrspeed Posts: 21
    If you're referring to my post (#46) about touring class racing, there is a link in the post that takes you to that web site. I believe the article referred to the Focus prepped by Saleen for racing in the various Touring championship events and it might be a one of a kind.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    cinemafia:
    Unfortunately, the "American" pride comes in form of "Euro-touch", per Ford! (thats what the commercials have to say, although the American Focus is much stripped version of its Euro counterpart).
  • cinemafiacinemafia Posts: 57
    Yeah I know Robert, I was being fecetious, lol. Any pride in American automobile manufacturing nowadays is a direct result of European/Japanese influences.
  • cinemafiacinemafia Posts: 57
    Oh so it was a one of kind, I should've guessed. It would be nice to see Saleen tuning something other than Mustangs and Explorers for the masses though, wouldn't it? If they could make a $20k-$25k Focus Saleen for the market I think it would do well. Oh well thanks for the info.
  • jk111jk111 Posts: 125
    actually, with the new Focus R, Honda will be forced to bring over the civic R.. that will rule!
  • mrspeedmrspeed Posts: 21
    We need more power! (and lighter, fuel efficient cars)
  • cscott1cscott1 Posts: 6
    There is no question in my mind that the eclipe is the best package. Drove a Celica GT-S and wasn't as impressed as I should have been for a $23,000 sticker. I fell in love with the Mitsu in the first 15 min. And I was test driving a car with a sticker $2,000 less. The Eclipse give more power, more room and in-town drivability, for less money. Go for an Eclipe!!
  • 181kmiles181kmiles Posts: 29
    it is a proven to be better than every import except toyota. that doesnt mean for the price the ceilca is better than the prelude or the integra.
    i also drove the celica and i wasnt impressed with it. ive driven all of the other cars. maybe im biased because everyone in my house drives a honda but if i had a choice i would definatly go honda. see what most people dont know is honda has engineered there cars so well to get maximum horsepower out of there engines. look at the new s2000 by honda. it has 120 hp per liter. without turbo. you ill not see a factory installed turbo on a honda. they dont need it. think about it a 240 hp 4 cylinder 2 liter naturally aspirated engine. thats amasing. now all other imports have put a turbo charger on at least one model. honda doesnt have a single one. with means a honda will outlast any other import that has a turbo because turbo wears an engine alot. also peope dont know how to take care of it. it will also get better gas mileage. and it has the same hp rating as other turbo charged cars in its class.

    so if i had a choice i would pick either the prelude or the integra
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    And thats the choice I agree with. I picked Prelude, and it is, with no doubt, the best all-round sports coupe under $25K, and arguably the best in under $30K.
    Eclipse reminded me of driving Accord, which is already the car that I drive, to get real sporty character, Prelude does it well. Superb shifter, nice, broad torque band, and high rev excitement, with uniqueness to go with it, at a reasonable price tag.
  • cinemafiacinemafia Posts: 57
    well yeah Hondas are tuned to get higher horsepower, however what they gain in raw power by this tuning they lose in torque. Honda engines generally have much more horsepower than they do torque, which means if you want speed, you really have to work at it since you have to rev the engines so high, and even when you do, you're not getting as much as many other imports. Hey and if you think 120 hp per liter is good, try 250! I read in Road & Track that one of the new Toyota Celicas was tuned by a company (can't remember the name) to put out 500 horsepower out of its tiny 2.0L 4 cylinder! Can't remember if it was turboed or naturally aspirated, though, but at any rate it's a monster.
  • 181kmiles181kmiles Posts: 29
    250 hp per liter is alot yes but that is most defiatly not naturaly aspirated. the honda has the most hp per liter out of a NATURALLY ASPIRATED motor in the world.no one even comes close. the closest is still a honda produact and thats the integra type r at 80 hp per liter out of a nuturally aspirated motor. you can have infinate hp per liter with the aid of turbo or supercahrger or nitrous or whatever else you want to use. so dont tell me 250 hp per liter is amazing. also its a race car. the s2000 is a sreet legal, ultra-low emissions car that can get 30 mpg. lets see that out of your celica. yes i do agree that honda lacks torque. i know from personal experience. but that is why they can have the hi revving engines. it keeps you in a greal longer so you dont have to waste time shifting. if honda wanted to the could make a torquey engine. but its not practical for there type of engineering. the hi rev offers the choice of good gas milage at cruising speed and at the same time hp at the higher rpms. best of both world. and the honda engine can handle the high rpms. it was built for that. honda is comming out with a new vtec engine called the vtev-i. it has 30 ft lbs mor torque at lower rpms and 20 more hp at higher rpms then the current vtec. again best of both worlds. they also are engineering a new intake system that electronically expands as the rpms rise. giveing more air to the engine. which is the same that a turbo and supercharger do but they force the air into the combustion chamber. the honda engnes all have a higher compression ratio then there competitors counterparts. that is why they dont need turbo and the competitor has to have it to match honda
  • 181kmiles181kmiles Posts: 29
    also a company can tune any car to give it 500 hp honda just doesnt want there cars do be bastardized which is what these companies do. i saw in an import tuner magazine a honda civic with a b18c vtec motor with 600 hp. that is 333 hp per liter. not the civic also had a turbo that put out 24 psi of boost. it doesnt matter how much hp per liter you have with a turbo. ot is however amazing that even the most exotic car companies suck as ferrari, lamborghini, porsche, and bugatti can not match a honda in pure engineering know how. just think if that honda engine had the same hp rating but had the engine the size of the new lamborghini diablo engine wich is 6.0 liter mind you, it would have 720 hp naturally aspirated. the lamborghini motor doesnt even reach 600, it has 572.but comparing honda to laborghini ferrari porsche and bugatti is like comparing a house cat to a loin, tiger, leopard, and cheetah. they just arent comparable
  • cuadancuadan Posts: 13
    when is that vtec-i expected? sounds very interesting : )
  • mrspeedmrspeed Posts: 21
    Excuse me, my Type R has 108.3 HP/Liter (not 80)!
    108.3 x 1.8 = 195HP
  • 181kmiles181kmiles Posts: 29
    im sorry mrspeed i wasnt thinking clearly i know that it has 108 per hp per liter. that even supports my argument more. i deeply apologize for the mistake i wanted to correct it but i havent had a chance. when i wasnt busy to chance it the town hall was down. im sorry. and you are right!!!
  • 181kmiles181kmiles Posts: 29
    it is still the clostest at 108 hp per liter though
  • 181kmiles181kmiles Posts: 29
    the new vtec-i motor is said to be released in the us market in 2005. it was released in the japanese market in winter of 2000. it was released in the preludes and the honda integra type r's (japan doesnt have acura in there market. its a us only car.) this motor should be interesting. the numbers i gave were rough estamates. i cant remember the exact numbers. but it is close to that. the new vtec with the expanding intake is said to reach the u.s. market in 2001 or 2002. so expect hondas to have more hp and torque
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