Mazda3

creakid1

w/ no true advantage in handling or power. Besides, it comes w/ & a horribly cramped interior.

At least Mazda purposely keeps the 3 uglier than the 6. So that alone will deter many 6 buyers from the 3.

Dynamic wise, who knows, maybe the 3's Euro underpinning will out perform the 6's Japanese design. As the most recent AutoMotor und Sport from Germany finds the Mazda6's steering too skittish & actually likes the Euro Accord's steering which has road feel, unlike our soft-bushing no-feel TSX.

gee35coupe

I hope so. Looks like I'm gonna be needing one. Guess I'll chane my screen name Mazda3dad or maybe Sportifamily. I kinda like the latter. Yeah I think I'll go with that one.

wongpres

Yes, the N. American sedan and hatch will arrive together (that's the plan anyways).

In Europe, the hatch arrives a month before the sedan.

wsag26

Many automakers have wagons on there future list. Why is that? The wagon version I saw when i visited the New York Auto Show and saw the wagon version. Replacing the Protoge.. one of the best selling vehicles from Mazda??? How much hp will the Mazda3 have.

bluong1

presumably 2.0l 140 hp, 2.3l 160 hp

wongpres

Mazda3 sedan replaces the Protege
Mazda3 Sport replaces the Protege5

What you saw at the NY autoshow was the concept version of the Mazda3 Sport.

Mazda's been very secretive with the Mazda3 sedan (but if you do a search on this board, you can find it).

wsag26

I thought sedans were turning into wagons for a second like how Dodge is coming out with the Magnum wagon? How whacked out is that?

I didn't know that Mazda was even going to replace the Protoge until I saw it on the internet a few days after I went to the NY Auto Show.

Do you know of any places to get spy pictures?

bluong1

this is mostly owned to wrongpres effort

http://groups.msn.com/BrunoLuong/mazda3.msnw

PS: "Protegé" is the correct spelling

wsag26

Headlights look like the Camry's. Thanks for the pics.. I appreciate them..

pzev

For whatever reason, I don't like those wheels too much. I think most of Mazda's 5-spoke wheels are great, even the 15-inch ones on the Protege. The Mazda6 16" ones aren't that great either, but not bad. I think with better wheels it might look a little better. Thicker spokes might help.

pzev

"At least Mazda purposely keeps the 3 uglier than the 6. So that alone will deter many 6 buyers from the 3."

I keep hearing you say this but I'm starting to think you're right. I wouldn't exactly call either version of the Mazda3 ugly, but I think there was a few minor obvious things they could have done to make them look better. I think the license plate on the bumper works better on the hatchback, but on the sedan I can't understand why they did it. On the RX-8 the trunk seems smaller so it works but on the sedan there's a huge space of nothing on the trunk. I know a lot of cars are like this but they might have been better off simply putting it on the trunk. Either they did this just to be different from the Mazda6 or they really were trying to make it look less attractive compared to the Mazda6. Also the taillights look like they could have been shaped better. I'll wait for better pictures but it seems they were trying to be too different.

chikoo

happened because one night the VW-Jetta, the Honda-Civic and the Rx-8 decided to a have a group thing. And when it was almost done, the Toyota corolla decided to jump into the fray.

creakid1

dinu01

Bad mental image J/K - well that Corolla part scares me - it looks too high off the ground and with to much space b/w the tires and the side panels at the wheel wells.

Dinu

creakid1

It's amazing how a car manufacture wants to uglyfy a car. When the new BMW 5-series came out after the mid '90's, I just can't believe those alloys wheels - as if BMW held an "ugly wheel contest" & picked the winner. So over the long period of the generation, there would be room for improvement.

Still, the 3 sedan's rear reminds me of the old fastback sedan & coupe Subaru from the '70's. Its looks is more cool, albeit less expensive, than the RX-3's. The foreign-market RX-3 coupe was already a very cool looking car back then w/ one rectangular headlight on each side.

So the 3 will look like a cut-price 6, even the name seems so, but, again, radically cool. I'm sure those who don't get it are people such as old hags. ;-)

creakid1

"Bad mental image J/K - well that Corolla part scares me - it looks too high off the ground and with to much space b/w the tires and the side panels at the wheel wells."

From the image I saw(the red one in the photo), paint the lower part into a Lexus-like two tone would help to make the car look lower.

chikoo

Focus DNA. Right. cause the Focus is the mother.

getting carried too far away. Stop!!!!

newcar31

on the Jerry Springer show, and get a free DNA test to find out who the Daddy is?

dinu01

You get the Funniest Post of the Day Award!

And a honourable mention goes to Nick for starting it all!

Dinu

fowler3

Is it me or what? I'm getting tired of seeing five-point grilles. There are so many sedans, SUVs, and vans with those -- it's getting as bad as the jellybean car shapes, which also had grilles that were wide at the top and narrow at the bottom.

But the two ugliest grilles ever are on any big Buick and the Lexus LS430 -- the latter has absolutely no character.

creakid1, old hags drive old Buick Regals, usually aqua color or some ugly green.

fowler3

panamaltd2

Wow, the people who think the Mazda6 has skittish steering must be out of their minds. Come on, who else has complained about the 6 handling? Fact is the Mazda6 has a very sophisticated suspension and I would highly doubt the 3 would be better than the 6. You get what you pay for.

bluong1

don't forget the 3 weights less than the 6.

mazdafun

But I'm thinking it looks nowhere as nice as the 6 or even the 2.

And the wagon doesn't have the character or looks of the P5, at least from the pictures.

How disappointing. Looks like they borrowed too many styling cues from the Corolla and Matrix.

chikoo

because now the Matrix has stepped in too....

chikoo

I find it extremely elegant.

creakid1

Audi's next.

In the late '90's, I once saw a foreign-market Aspire 4-dr notchback sedan(actually called Ford Festiva) w/ big squarish grill that extends below the bumper level. It really is "Rolls Royce like", & therefore, seems to worth more.

The recent Mazda 5-pt grill may seem like a copy from Honda, but it just reminded me that it's a style sort of reminiscent of the '70's RX-3's slightly pointy beaker grill. So the Mazda3 is a modern-day RX-3 w/o that old-nightmare Wankel rotary?

http://www.der-wankelmotor.de/Fahrzeuge/MAZDA/RX3/rx3.html
Scroll down to see the red coupe at horizontal level. The grill really looks like a 5-pt.

creakid1

"Wow, the people who think the Mazda6 has skittish steering must be out of their minds."

I believe the skittishly-quick setting was done on purpose, ditto my '90 sport model Protege LX. But the 6 has an elastic feeling not found in the Protege or Miata as if it can cause some lack of precision from the driver's input. The lack of directness in firmness can make this quick setting a tad too clumsy to be steered steadily & precisely w/o exercising a little caution. That was my impression during my MazdaRevItUp test drive of every Mazda car on the low speed course.

http://autos.msn.com/vip/heraudprocon.aspx?modelid=10684&src=- - vip
http://autos.msn.com/vip/heraudreport.aspx?modelid=10684&src=- - vip
The Carpoint reviewer also mention about the steering being elastic.

pzev

Has anyone seen the new Volvo S40 pictures? The exterior looks nice as does the interior. Still though when you consider the Volvo will cost around 7k-8k more than the Mazda3, the Mazda3 seems like a bargain. In fact judging from pictures, I think the quality of the Mazda3 interior is on par with the Volvo. I've gotten use to the interior pictures on MazdaUSA and even without the black gloss it looks really nice, I like it. I also like the fact that I can avoid the carbon-trim unlike the Mazda6 and also it appears the Volvo S40.

wongpres

pzev, so have you seen pictures of the new S40 or not? Your first 2 sentences from above seem contradictory. If you've seen them, can you post the link?

I've seen heavily camouflaged exterior pictures of the sedan and 'illustrations' for both the sedan and wagon. Basically it looks like a mini-S60.

Like the Mazda3, the Volvo S40 will be unveiled in Frankfurt.

pzev

The exterior pictures might be photoshopped but the interior looks legit.

http://free.inkfrog.com/pix/infinitig35testing/

panamaltd2

Well I own a Mazda6 and drive it every day. I drove just about every other car in this segment before deciding the 6 has by far the best steering/suspension/handling. If you want to feel "elastic" steering try a Passat. BTW, my previous car was a 2001 Protege and my Mazda6 has way way way better steering, suspension and handling.

creakid1

That's tragic. Eventhough it's rated as an even-better-car than the Accord by CR. When pit against the "just 2nd-best steering" E46 3-series, CAR couldn't feel-by-hand where the car was steering into & had to check visually after each partial steering input! Therefore the car was rated very low in that comparison.

VWs & even Audis are pretty much dead, as the poor-dynamic/ride/steering $100k Phaeton will phase out. VW now is announcing that it will improve the "electric pwr steering" in the upcoming Golf/Jetta over the poor-feel new A3's set up. Focus II/Mazda3 are smart enough to only go as far as "electro-hydraulic". See what happen when a company want's to save its image by not adopting the complete Focus platform? VW only secretly hired the Focus designer to do their new rear suspension.

By the way, since '99, C&D didn't like the new Protege's steering as much as the older Proteges - not as agile off center.

creakid1

Wow, this is the "premium Mazda3"? When do I get to own one? J/K!

The interior was shaped dorky on purpose so Volvo buyers will like it? Or the car is so good that its looks has to be ruined to not hurt the S60's sale too much? The shapes of the steering, the door latch, & outside mirror are all dorky. The center stack looks like an after-thought panel stick on to the dash not unlike the BMW 1-series concept car. Believe me, it's no beauty. Instead of a full-laden expensive look as found in the old S40, the dash board looks cheaper than the S60's almost like a VW Polo or Lupo. What's that "VCR remote control" doing on the dash? It's not removable like the one in the Mazda Sportif concept is it? ;-) Mazda3's higher location of stereo/HVAC is a better design than this silly one from Volvo. & the switches aft of the center panel look like a mess. Ditto the shape of the cup holder surround, albeit a good location. Key hole on dash is good, I hope the 3 got that, too, as my '90 Protege got the most hard-to-find key hole even after all these yrs of ownership! Last, I wonder if these Volvo seats are comfier & more supportive than Mazdas' as usual.

Exterior wise, the front corners look silly as if this entire car is a Volvo wanna be but isn't one. The fastback w/ high short rear deck seems like it's got identical structure as Mazda3's, although I know the Volvo has a longer wheelbase.

fdanna

If this new platform actually improves on the driving dynamics of the current Focus, this car is going to be wicked fun to drive. I drive a Focus now and I can attest to the abominable quality that people have mentioned here. They took an amazing European chassis and put the cheapest bargain basement parts in it. This is very typcial of GM and Ford anyway.

Scion was in town (Boston) yesterday giving people test drives of the car before it goes on sale here next June. I was thinking "hmm... maybe they'll copy the Focus and it will handle great." So I drove it and I think I'm pretty sure I won't be getting one.

So now, I think my Focus replacement will be the Mazda 3 hatch. If you can get past the hatchback stigma from the 70s, you're better off. A hatch is so much more versatile and roomy. The deal breaker for me will be if there are too many critical Ford parts. I've learned my lesson and the Focus will be my first and last American car.

the_big_h

if all the said 'Ford' parts in the 3 are made by Japanese suppliers, as the 3 will remain to be made in Japan for the NA market?

bluong1

are we talking about?

the_big_h

well the unibody itself could be considered a 'Ford' part lol

mazdafun

Like nuts, fasteners, cable harnesses.

I think the Mazda will be sourced from mostly local (to the plant in Japan) suppliers, not the ones that Ford uses in NA. Of course, these could go bad too, but they've been much better, historically.

bluong1

that the round logo with two wings isn't Ford part. Any taker?

chikoo

going to be imported from Japan, just like the the Protege, Rx-8 and the MPV?

bluong1

the sedan is manufactured in Hiroshima plant and the hatch in Hofu II.

chikoo

is the ECU, just like the current protege.

carguy58

well when the 6 came out everybody said it looked a Corolla. I think just by luck a Mazda car shares a similarity with a Toyota car. I really don't make a big deal over it. I still don't understand the Civic comparisons. I do think the back end of the 3 could be extended a little though.

About the Ford Parts I would have thought Mazda would have learned its lesson with the disaster that was the 1994-1997 Mazda 626. I don't know if they learned enough lessons yet if there is going to be 60% ford parts in the 3.

pzev

http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/17037.jpg

http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/37503.jpg

pzev

"I don't know if they learned enough lessons yet if there is going to be 60% ford parts in the 3."

Yeah, this is what I want to know. What does the 60% consist of? The chassis and what else? Since the 40% consists mostly of stuff that are visual and things you can touch, how much of the parts you can't see or touch are being shared with Ford and Volvo? On the other hand, isn't the European Focus fairly reliable?

qddave

Looking at the first pic, does anybody else see the shape of the Porsche Cayenne? Not that it has any impact on the car. Looking at the second pic, you can really see the features in the sketch of the Futura. Rear visibility doesn't seem to be that great either.

pzev

"What's that "VCR remote control" doing on the dash?"

The guy who designed the interior definetly had to do that on purpose because that's exactly what it looks like, a remote control. The buttons look extremely small too. For whatever reason though I kind of like it simply because it's something different, but is it 7k-8k better than the Mazda3? No, not in my opinion. A stripped-down version is probably going to run about 23k right? That's with cloth and probably no ESP or traction control maybe. Volvo has a habit of making too much stuff optional and by adding options the price gets very high and very quick. Even if I had the money to buy either I would probably still go with a Mazda3. And being built in Japan is just icing on the cake.

bluong1

I don't know if they learned enough lessons yet if there is going to be 60% ford parts in the 3.

until I hear the contrary, I assume not, period. Can we stop speculating and talk more about what we know?

All we know is this:

The plateform is a join venture, commonly developed by Ford (suspension), Volvo (chassis and structure), and Mazda (engines). Mazda3 styling is developed mostly in Europe. The car is entirely manufactured in Japan. Do people really think changing part suppliers is easy like going to different grocery store?

pzev

What I'm saying though is it's been pretty much confirmed that the Ford, Volvo, and Mazda will share 60% between each other. Also if I remember correctly, the 40% is something along the lines of what you can see and touch, meaning the exteriors, interiors and that sort of thing fall under the 40%. I was just curious how much of the 60% does the chassis make up and what else falls under the 60% category. I know it's too early to say and probably no one really knows but it's something to think about. Somebody may be able to tell me though what percentage of any car a chassis makes up. Is it 20%? 40%? Anybody know?

chikoo

looks great!!!