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Saturn VUE Green Line - Real World MPG Numbers

2

Comments

  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Is the new Hybrid Malibu basically the same driveline as the Vue? Hope not, or this may do the same for GM hybrids as GM did for diesel engines of many years ago.
  • chmsommchmsomm Posts: 36
    To my knowledge the 2008 Malibu, Vue, and Aura are all mild hybrids similar to the 2007 models.

    I have seen no posts on the hybrid Malibu or Aura.
  • Hi ! I'm thinking about buying a 2009 hybrid vue in the fall. My concern is that I will be using AC from May until November (Tucson, AZ)and wondering how much the AC affects the MPG. Is the AC good? Your story sounds like you spent a lot of time compling the info. I'd appreciate any info you might give me.
  • chmsommchmsomm Posts: 36
    I commute 26 miles round trip to work, bumper to bumper through expressway. My mileage has been between 27-28 mpg. That is without AC.

    Observation: In my opinion the AC in the green "eco" mode is worthless. The engine shut off is significantly shortened. I find the on/off of the engine in that mode of AC is actually irritating.

    Therefore I use the AC in the non-eco mode. There is no engine shutoff at traffic lights. I find my mileage goes down to 23- 24 mpg for my suburban driving/commute.


    PS: I do carpool with colleague who has a Honda CRV starting 3 weeks ago. My Vue Hybrid with the AC on gets better gas mileage than his CRV with the AC on by 4-5 mpg. To maximize your mileage read the posts by HybridVue and myself about charging the battery using the charge/assist method. There are some tricks to maximizing your mileage. Also read the posts regarding the electrical harness and battery problems with the 2007 model, that may affect your purchase decision.
  • hybridvuehybridvue Posts: 31
    My Hybrid Vue is garaged at home and is in a covered garage at the office. That helps to keep the car cooler in the summer. However, I still need to use the A/C to cool the car and the driver especially when the outside temps are above 82 degrees.

    I usually have the A/C turned on in the first setting in the green ECO mode. I find it usually does the job. However, we had a few days pushing 100 degrees and I had to turn it up to the second fan setting. I find it takes 2-4 mpgs off of my average. If you take the A/C out of ECO mode it probably will hit your mpgs more.

    As an aside - my wife finally drove the Hybrid Vue and got aroung 30.8 mpg driving on Long Island with the A/C going 80% of the time over 180 miles. It took 47,500 miles before she had to drive it. (I was on a business trip.) I was worried about the mpgs but she did a great job. She calls the Vue the "Big Blue Kahuna." She drives a 2000 Toyota Camry. Her next car will be a Hybrid, but since she only has 115,000 miles on the current car so she will have to wait. :)
  • Is there anyone who lives in Southern AZ or Nevada that drives a Saturn Vue Hybrid that can give me good MPG information. I live in Tucson and I am curious about the AC performance and economy. Thanks. Ken
  • camkscamks Posts: 2
    I live in Orlando and I average 26 mpg w/ a good mix of HWY and rural driving and I certainly use my AC!
    I should mention I have a 2007.
  • chmsommchmsomm Posts: 36
    I live near Philly and my commute is a mix of stop and go and highway. During the summer I use the AC in the non-eco mode full time. I get approximately 26 mpg. This will go up to approximately 28 mpg when the summer ends. I have a 2007 Hybrid-Vue.

    FYI, I find the eco-mode AC irritating, as it shortens the engine stop.

    I use the charge/assist method of driving, which seems to work out well.

    My wife, who has a 2008 non-hybrid Vue AWD gets about 17 mpg under the same conditions.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,846
    Hybrid Vue that are still driving. Did you folks have any wiring harness work done?
  • I got the Battery Harness Update almost one year ago and the Hybrid has not missed a beat. 20 Months of ownership and I could not be happier.

    Here are some lifetime numbers:

    52,260 Miles
    116 Fill Ups
    32.289 mpg
    Cold Weather November thru February - 30.73 mpg
    Warm Weather March thru October - 32.999 mpg
    101 Fillups over 30+ mpg
    64 Fillups over 32+ mpg
    27 Fillups over 34+ mpg
    6 Fillups over 36+ mpg
    24 Fillups over 500 miles
  • Interesting numbers. I just read where Consumer Reports (Oct issue) did a big comparison of 12 hybrids and the Vue came out on top!!! They say it saves $4550 in 5 years as compared to the non-hybrid model. The Prius comes in 5th with a $2000 savings. It is interesting that they are using their own MPG test numbers (28 mpg for the Vue) rather than the EPA numbers.

    So the obvious advantage of the Vue is the lower overcost as compared to the "full hybrids".

    Very interesting also is that three hybrids were money losers after 5 years and they were all Toyotas. Yankee ingenuity prevails again!!!
  • One thing to note is most articles compared the cost of the Hybrid Vue to the 4 cylinder model, and calculate the years to pay off based on that.

    When the cost of our 2007 Hybrid Vue was compared to a 6 cylinder front wheel drive XE it was $2000 less, which I think is more realistic. The Hybrid Vue easily outperformed the 4 cylinder model I drove. I think it is more appropriate to compare the cost to the 6 cylinder XE model. When that is done there is no "hybrid surcharge".

    My wife saw a 2008 Hybrid Vue in a parking lot here in PA. I have yet to see a post on the 2008 model, discussion of potential harness or battery problems. Any word on those? I wouldn't credit GM ingenuity until there is word on fixing those rather serious problems.
  • I just purchased a 2009 Hybrid Vue about 1 mth ago. I am extremely disappointed in the MPGs. So much so I'm trying to see if they will take it back. I know they probably won't, but I want them to know how ticked I am.

    It is advertised using the new EPA avgs as 25/32. I am only getting 16 and that is with about 25% freeway driving (with moving traffic). I traded in my V8 Tahoe that got about 10-12 thinking I would at least get 20 city. Getting only 16 was a shock to me.

    Really look at the Prius - I'm sorry I didn't go that route since I was looking for something I could be my labs in and just use around town. Our other car is a truck so we don't need 2. I got the VUE thinking it had more space and I really like the looks - the MPGs just aren't good enough.
  • Grumpy when I bought my 07 hybrid vue I only got 18 mpg, the salesman told me to just drive it and it would get better. It did I get at least 34 mpg now with almost 40,000 miles on it now.
    Yes like you I liked the suv space and looks.
    You should also look at the information on this site:
    http://www.cleanmpg.com/cmps_index.php?page=hypermiling
    or do an internet search for "hypermilling". I have had as high at 47 mpg on one tank and I'm working on getting more.
    I also use a solar charger and am looking at adding different battries and an ac (grid) charger to boost mpg. You might look at this site to get ideas for things that you can do to a mild hybrid to improve mpg's.
    http://www.afstrinity.com/
    Good luck and keep track of your mileage and post it here. Love to know how it does...
  • First off - I think you purchased a 2008 Saturn Hybrid Vue. The 2009 models which will be a full Hybrid are not out on the market yet.

    Second - the first tank may not have been filled up to the top and hence your poor mpg numbers. So wipe the slate clean, fill up to the top and then compute the mpg numbers for the next and all future tanks.

    Third - have you tried any of these Saturn Vue Hybrid specific driving tips that I have put together?

    - Before you travel - consider your commute. The mild hybrid system is not the best choice for heavy stop-and-go traffic or very short trips.

    - Don't warm up the Hybrid. Turn on the ignition and go.

    - When accelerating or coasting - I have gotten the ECO light to turn on between the speeds of 19 - 79 miles per hour. Keeping the RPM's low when accelerating is a big key. The key is to easy off the gas pedal, get the ECO light to turn on and then back on the gas pedal. I think I have gotten the RMP's to 3500 once or twice - when jumping into fast moving traffic.

    - When breaking - I can get the ECO light to stay all the way on until I am stopped. Just make it a smooth stop and it will even go into Auto Stop.

    - When driving at a constant speed - if you notice that the Hybrid is neither charging or assisting and the green ECO light is on - press the gas pedal more. You will notice that the additional accerlation will come from the battery and not the gas. The green ECO light will remain on and your battery will give you that added boost.

    - When driving on a long downhill - let the Hybrid coast to regenerate the battery. You will find that when you press the gas pedal the assist will really kick in. If you drive resting your foot on the gas pedal you are not taking advantage of the regenative featurs of the hybrid battery.

    - I rarely use the cruise control. I find I can do a much better job smoothing my ride than the cruise control can. The only exception is a completely flat drive.

    The Key is to get the Saturn Hybrid Vue to do its job by getting the assist/charge function to kick in. By using the above techniques I have been able to have a lifetime average of 32.37mpg over 55,500 miles.

    As for adding a pluggin system in the Hybrid that is great for some, but it requires an added expense. My numbers for my 2007 Saturn Vue Hybrid have been achieved by driving smart and using the technology already in the Hybrid Vue. And for those that think I am crawling in the left lane - I drive at or +5 mph above the speed limit in mainly the right hand lanes.

    One last note, while the above techniques may sound like alot of work - they will come naturally once you practice them. Enjoy the Saturn Hybrid Vue - I certainly do. :)
  • Seems I am not the only one that thinks the Saturn Hybrid Vue makes financial and eco sense.

    http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/autos/0810/gallery.hybrid_suvs/2.html

    Another tip
    - When stopped at a light or stopped in traffic - allow about 7-10 feet of space from the car in front of you. The Auto Stop will kick in and last anywhere from a few seconds to 90 seconds. If the Hybrid comes out of Auto Stop, inch a few feet and then press the break. In my experiences it will go back into Auto Stop. This is useful for those really long traffic lights. Like 5 or 6 way intersections.

    Best wishes.
  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576
    >"1. This 2007 GreenLine is a mid-size SUV, not a compact car or a small SUV. Compare the mileage to other mid-size SUVs. The 2007 cost us less than the V6 XE model. The 2007 4 cylinder Vue was a weak mover, I test drove one. If you want a small 4 cylinder SUV, go get a Honda CRV. "

    You are saying, "If you want a small 4 cylinder SUV, go get a Honda CRV"

    According to Edmunds.
    Weight..Vue= 3803 # CRV= 4560#
    Length...Vue= 180.1...CRV=177.9
    Width....Vue =72.5"....CRV= 71.5
    Although the Vue has largest outside dimensions, that can have to do with length of mirrors and bumpers. Notice that the CRV is 757 # heavier than the Vue. Even though the Vue is loaded down with the electric drive train and batteries. This suggest that the CRV is a more substantially built vehicle.

    Luggage...Vue 29.2 cu.ft...CRV 35.7 cu ft
    Max cargo Vue 56 cu ft.....CRV 73 cu ft.

    The CRV has more internal room and weighs more. That doesn't look to be the small vehicle you allude to.

    Price wise the 08 CR-V MSRP is from $21,095 to $28785 with Nav, leather, and the whole shooting match. The only Vue offered has an MSRP of $25,645 and nearly $2000 more for the one 09 model.

    EPA Vue 25-32...CR-V 2027

    FWIW my wife's 03 CR-V with 4 speed Auto consistently gets 22 with her lead foot. It gets 24-25 with me driving. On the road, she gets 28-29 and I get 30-31

    According to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ the mileage for the 17 reported 2007-2008 models is 25.95. The 25 reported 2007 and 2008 CR-V average was 24.55 mpg.

    In real world the Hybrids simply are not getting the advertised mileage for the average driver. Even in the Vue, which is lighter and smaller than the CR-V.. ;)

    Kip
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,846
    "According to Edmunds.
    Weight..Vue= 3803 # CRV= 4560#
    Length...Vue= 180.1...CRV=177.9 "

    I think you must be referring to the Pilot. The CR-V has never weighed that much. According to the Honda website, the CR-V maximum curb weight (no passengers) is 3549 (AWD, EX-L). Minimum weight is 3389 (LX FWD).

    BTW, it is no wonder GM is going under. Their Saturn site is slick, but provides no usable information - no specifications at all. Dumb.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    You didn't look very good as I found specs after clicking on the Vue and I bet the rest does too.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,846
    "You didn't look very good as I found specs after clicking on the Vue and I bet the rest does too. "

    Did you even check the Honda website?

    I would think that the official Honda website has the most accurate data. Having owned a CR-V, I know they don't weigh that much - one would need a V6 to power that much weight.

    If you got your numbers off Edmunds, there are two possible explanations:

    1. You read maximum gross weight, which includes cargo and passengers, rather than the curb weight.
    2. Edmunds made a mistake on their site.
  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576
    "According to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ the mileage for the 17 reported 2007-2008 models is 25.95. The 25 reported 2007 and 2008 CR-V average was 24.55 mpg"

    Correction on above sentence:
    According to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ the mileage for the 17 reported 2007-2008 Vue models is 25.95. The 25 reported 2007 and 2008 CR-V average was 24.55 mpg. That is averaging the 2 years together.

    Don't how that the 1.5 mpg advantage of the Hybrid Vue could ever really pay for itself, other than self satisfaction. Even a 5 mpg advantage for "average driving" would take years and many miles to pay back the higher initial cost.

    Kip
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,846
    "Don't how that the 1.5 mpg advantage of the Hybrid Vue could ever really pay for itself, other than self satisfaction. Even a 5 mpg advantage for "average driving" would take years and many miles to pay back the higher initial cost. "

    Some of it would depend upon the duty cycle. If a person drove each vehicle in the same fuel-efficient conservative fashion, the hybrid might pay for itself after a few years of primarily Urban cycle, where the hybrid technology shines. If many of the miles are on the freeway at highway speeds, there isn't as much advantage to the hybrid.

    I think that a CR-V would get around 22-23 in town, wherease a hybrid Vue should get around 28-31, possibly more depending upon how hard the driver "works" to maximize the hybrid technology.

    Obviously it also depends on the price of gas, which is currently low. But try the comparison at $5 per gallon and see what happens...
  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576
    You are right, that does seem like a lot of weight for the CR-V.

    Re checked and I did pick up the gross weight. Vehicle weight is 3389 for the CR-V Base model. Therefore the Vue Hybrid is heavier, which would account for weight of the batteries and electric drive system.

    The extra length of the Vue is most likely in front of the windshield to accomodate the V6.

    Point remains that the CR-V is not to be considered a small SUV.

    Thanks,
    Kip
  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576
    We did a $4 per gallon comparison on the Civic Hybrid vs Civic gas cars. Figured the Hybrid at $4000 higher initial cost for basically the same features on both. . Figures came from Edmunds. Those were MSRP figures and we did not take into consideration that the dealer will "deal" on the gas models but not on the hybrids. Did not figure any tax rebate on the Hybrid or any insurance numbers.. Just figured MSRP to MSRP.

    Figured financing the extra initial cost over a 6 year period and going 16,666 miles yearly. So the car would be payed off at 100K miles.
    Seems we used 45 mpg for the Hybrid and 35 for the Gas. It took the better part of the 100K miles and the 6 years to hit a break even point.

    Putting aside the reported figures and using your above 22 mpg for the gas engined car and 28 for the Hybrid, the gasser would use 146 more gallons of fuel over a 15000 mile drive. About 1 year for the average driver.
    At $3 the hybrid would save $438 fuel cost.
    At $4 it would save $584.
    At $5 it would save $730.
    With no interest involved at all the:
    $3 gas would take 9.1 years and 136,000 miles to reach a break even point and start really saving any money.
    At $4 it would take 6.8 years and 102,739 miles.
    The $5 gas would take 5.5 years and 82,191 miles to do the same.

    If you consider the extra interest for the $4000, the times and mileages would be longer and higher.

    We don't actually know how long the batteries will last, cost of replacements, or any extra expense on the electric drive and regenerating components.

    A person feeling they are doing the right thing by being more "Green" is admirable and priceless. A person feeling they are saving a lot of money is not looking at the total cost. :)

    Kip
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    I've seen a number of comparisons on hybrid vs gas but so far no one has figured in the cost of new batteries at somewhere between about 5 and 7 years. What do they cost and is this the type of car you drive the wheels off of or dump it before it needs batteries and will a dealer give you a decent price on trade or give you a real low $ due to it needing batteries at anytime. Anyone care to comment?
  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576
    These are questions and concerns that I have and look forward to other ideas as long as they are kept civil.

    To make an intelligent buying decision, we need to know the warranty on the batteries and associated "Electric Drive" components. We need to know the replacement cost, including labor. What warranty does the Vue have on these items. How about the "starter" for the gas engine that will be used a lot for every trip!

    My concern is that the battery pack may need replacing around 100K miles and the price will be in the $3000-$5000 range, depending on car make and model.
    Therefore, just about the time the Vue hybrid is beginning to reach the "break even point" there is another $3K-$5K EXPENSE that has to be over ridden. So the owner is right back where he or she started, more or less and will never actually save any money unless gas prices exceed $6 per gallon. (Which could happen). Except that now the car has 100K on the clock and may not be worth much more than the price of the battery pack. So does it become a throw away car? Or does the fact that it is a Hybrid enhance it's resale value to a point that battery replacement is worthwhile.

    To attempt trading in the car before the batteries crash would surely have an effect on the value of the trade. For example, a 5-6 year old gasser with 80K miles, might be worth, say $4-$5K. A hybrid in same condition is getting close to battery replacement time and the dealer MUST take that into consideration. What is GM doing to make that a non issue?

    Battery technology has improved greatly over the past few years. How will that affect an 08-09 Vue, in 5 years? Will the same charging and regenerating systems of an 09 car be able to deal with newer battery types in the future? Will battery prices decrease dramatically like the prices of flat/thin TV sets?

    Or will today's Hybrids be obsolete :confuse:

    Thanks,
    Kip :)
  • Please note I ride in a car pool 4 days a week. My co-worker owns a Honda CRV. I own a Vue GreenLine. My wife and I have driven both the Vue GreenLine, the Honda CRV, the 4 Cylinder Vue. She purchased a 2008 Vue XR, which she likes, as she only travels a couple of miles to work.

    He (my co-worker) gets 19-20 mpg commuting (real-life). I get 26-28 mpg (real-life). Our commute is the same. He lives in the next cul-de-sac.

    I get crammed into his CRV like a sardine. I sit comfortably in my Vue. I am 6'2" and weigh 225.

    His Honda CRV can only crawl up a moderately steep hill on the way to work. My Vue GreenLine holds its speed.

    I prefer REAL-LIFE direct comparisons. Please note I have a good opinion of the CRV as a smaller SUV. It was a much better performer than the non-hybrid Vue 4 cylinder.

    I will find out about the battery in a few years. The problems with the electrical harness and batteries are a legitimate concern. Of course, with less than 7000 Vue GreenLines made in 2007, it may be a rare car in 10 years. Maybe it will be worth more than an Edsel.

    The bottom line is hybrids, most likely plug-ins, are the future, whether you like it or not. We can't keep on sending our money out of the country to pay for oil. My opinion, based on direct conversations with other scientists working on hydrogen/fuel cells, is the technology is 20 years off, if ever. Not including a total re-work of the nations's infrastructure to make hydrogen commercially available.
  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576
    >"I get crammed into his CRV like a sardine. I sit comfortably in my Vue. I am 6'2" and weigh 225"

    Here are the inside dimensions of the 08 GL VUE and the 08 CR-V

    Vue
    Front Head Room: 40.2 in. Front Hip Room: 52.6 in.
    Front Shoulder Room: 56 in. Rear Head Room: 39.3 in.
    Rear Shoulder Room: 55.9 in. Rear Hip Room: 52.9 in.
    Front Leg Room: 40.7 in. Rear Leg Room: 36.9 in.
    Luggage Capacity: 29.2 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 56 cu. ft.
    Maximum Seating: 5

    CR-V
    Front Head Room: 38.9 in. Front Hip Room: 55.9 in.
    Front Shoulder Room: 56.9 in. Rear Head Room: 38.5 in.
    Rear Shoulder Room: 56 in. Rear Hip Room: 54.6 in.
    Front Leg Room: 41.3 in. Rear Leg Room: 38.5 in.
    Luggage Capacity: 35.7 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 73 cu. ft.
    Maximum Seating: 5

    The CR-V is larger in every dimension except head room. Possibly the reason you don't feel cramped in your Vue is because you are driving.. My next door neighbor is 6'3" and brags about the room in his wife's CR-V. Of course when he is in it, he is in the drivers seat.

    >"Please note I have a good opinion of the CRV as a smaller SUV."

    And you obviously have a good opinion of the even smaller VUE. ;)
    The Vue is a pleasant looking car and will likely give you good service. To me the exterior has more eye appeal than the CR-V does.
    The question at hand is how long and how many miles is the "break even point", and how will todays Hybrids fare in the future. Whether it be a Vue or any other hybrid.

    >His Honda CRV can only crawl up a moderately steep hill on the way to work. My Vue GreenLine holds its speed".

    Maybe your co-workers CR-V is an older, smaller model with a smaller engine. .

    I have yet to experience a hill, on the street, that our 03 4WD CR-V doesn't go up with enthusiasm. My wife averages around 21mpg and I get about 24mpg real world, local driving. Trips usually less than 7 miles one way. Fuel mileage has got a lot to do with the driver's foot. :)

    Kip
  • Kip,

    Glad you like your CRV. Nice that you copied the spec's.

    However, that is why people look at specs, and then do actual test drives to determine their levels of personal comfort. I learned many years ago as I scientist that theory must be backed up by actual testing. The other item was the comparison of mileage, the difference of which I found to me much greater than what you listed. Driven both, riden in both, evaluated both.

    My wife and I have test driven the various Vue models, Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4, Chevy Equinox and the Pontiac equivalent, and the 2009 AWD Pontiac Vibe. I have also driven a a Subaru as a rental.

    Glad you like your CRV. I see alot of them on the road, obviously people like them, and they appear to be very reliable. If I remember correctly, CRVs are now made in the U.S. Is that correct?

    The plug-in hybrids that will be coming out in the next few years will decrease our dependence on foreign oil and help stem outflow of our money. Many people who have older Prius's are converting them to be more electric reliant.

    Remember. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".
  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576
    chmsomm,

    Just so we are on the same page and there are no misunderstandings. I'm trying real hard to justify purchasing a hybrid from somebody. I happen to like the looks and some other virtues of the Vue. Am still considering the possibility of replacing the CR-V with a Vue. Thus I'm on Vue forums. Also considering a Hybrid. Thus I'm on this particular forum. There is nothing wrong with the CR-V. Just ready for something different.

    I understand there are "TROLLS" that visit forums to stir up controversy, I also understand there are those that exaggerate the truth to satisfy their own agenda and make themselves feel better about choices they have made. I am neither of those. I'm here to find the truth and make an informed decision. I'm retired and VALUE is important .

    When someone makes a statement as though it is "Truth" I investigate. You stated the comfort of your Vue and how you were crammed like a sardine into the CR-V. Also that the CR-V is a nice "Small" SUV. I investigated and found your statements difficult to understand. as the Vue has the smaller dimensions. As a scientist, you can certainly appreciate repeatable facts. FACTS are that the CR-V has more leg room front and back than the Vue, which should accomodate your longer legs better. It also has more hip and shoulder room which should accomodate your body size better. To back up those FACTS I copied and posted the actual specs, for your viewing pleasure. ;)

    I understand the "Perception is Reality" thing, although it is not scientific. Your perception of the driving position may be better in the Vue, for you, and you may be "Riding" in an older, smaller, less powerful CR-V. But truth be known, the CR-V is larger for the occupants and has considerably more luggage/cargo space. Plenty of power to deal with any paved road, and many that aren't paved.

    This forum is about the Green Line Vue. For me, the question is whether or not the Hybrid is right for me and mine.

    You wrote, "The other item was the comparison of mileage, the difference of which I found to me much greater than what you listed."

    Used 22 for the CR-V although EPA says 23 I think. And used the EPA numbers for the Vue Hybrid. Those number are actually dealing with greater difference in mileage than actual drivers posted on http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ . Seems the drivers aren't getting the EPA ratings from the Vue. What numbers would you like to consider?

    FWIW: Based on Edmunds numbers the "Base" Green Line has a $4880 higher MSRP than the Base 4 cylinder model. Add in 6% sales tax, Financing the Green Line at MSRP, at 5% for 60 months will cost $100 more per month than financing the 4 Cylinder Vue. According to Edmunds auto calculator. Understandably, there may be some tax incentives for the Hybrid, but there may also be some Manufacturers incentives for the gasser.

    Let us use a probably unrealistic 10 mpg difference between the Hybrid and Gasser?

    At 15000 miles per year the 32 mpg hybrid will use 469 gallons of fuel. The 22mpg gasser will use 682 gallons. The Hybrid uses 213 fewer gallons. At $3 the savings are $639 yearly. At $4 the savings are $852 yearly. At $5 they are $1065 yearly.
    Seems wonderful until we figure back in the extra $1200 per year car note.
    The less we drive the less the fuel savings, but that $1200 extra car note marches right along for those 5 years.

    You wrote: "Remember. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"."

    What I did for my country was serve 8 years in the military. Work and pay taxes. Not take any hand outs or welfare from the government. . Keep my thermostat on 70 in the winter and 78 in the summer. Exceed EPA ratings on my cars.

    I don't like sending $700 Billion a year to terrorist countries any more than anyone else. Fact is that we don't need to, other than the congress won't allow us to fix it. There are huge amounts of oil, oil shale, natural gas, and coal under our soil and off our coast.. We need to go after them. That would create 10s of thousands of jobs and keep that $700 billion right here. ANWR oil could be flowing in the Alaska pipeline in 1 to 3 years. Oil from 3 western states possibly sooner than that. Lower the national speed limit to 65 mph and enforce it. Create "Plug In" Electric vehicles for the short distance commuters and trips to the store. They already have that for all practical purposes. Leave off the gas engine and associated hardware and add more batteries and a AC to Dc charger.
    Why don't the auto mfgs do that? Why doesn't congress allow the energy companies to harvest more oil and gas. Hmmmm...! :sick:
    Not forgetting wind, nuclear, solar and tide energy sources. About 25% of the oil we use powers automobiles. :)

    Thanks,
    Kip
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