Mazda RX-8

astral · October 2005

The really loaded RX-8s didn't sell very well... pretty much almost all the 2004 left-overs are in the 32K MSRP range.

Also forget about 7000 off MSRP... I'd calculate invoice and see how much under invoice you're getting it.

audia8q · October 2005

In the Northeast region the Grand Touring was the best selling model...but if the car had navigation, it didnt sell well. Navigation is one of those options everyone talks about as a "must have" but few really pony up the jing for it.

dwynne · October 2005

The trouble is that Mazda gave the dealers their "final" discount on the 04s months ago so to go any lower and they lose money on the sale. I found I could get the car just like I wanted as an 05 and take advantage of $2,000 in Mazda rebates and a $500 Gerber rebate and come out pretty close to what an 04 what have cost me (for $4,000-4,500 under invoice). I paid around $500 under invoice - $2,500 in rebates and did the cheap lease deal too. I am happy, and to be honest the 04 cars seem to be a lot more problematic - the later the build date the fewer problems seem to be having. The lease deal is sweet - that way I don't have to fret about the terrible RX-8 resale value. At lease end I can buy it for the residual, maybe negotiate a lower price (very likely), or just walk away. I love my 8, but how will I feel about it down the road?

Dennis

graphicguy · October 2005

pathstar....I did drive a 3rd gen RX7. It was hellaciously fast. But, as you say, it road like a brick. I think it probably handled about as well (maybe better) than the RX8. I don't think anyone is going to "dis" an RX7 or RX8 for the way it handles. My point is, the competition is moving....mostly to higher HP. I would think that for Mazda to keep pace with those they compete against, they need to do the same.

lhess.....no doubt in my mind that the Mustang GT is considered a redneck greyhound. I personally can attest to the fact that my earliest memories of "performance" cars were those yesteryear Mustangs my older sister's boyfriends would pick her up in.

Refinement isn't in the Mustang vocabulary. It's pure, unadultrated muscle. and, it makes no excuses for it. I'm getting ready to put mine up for the winter. I'll miss driving it....just like I miss driving my departed RX8. They are two very good cars, that go about performance in very, very different ways. I like both, but for very different reasons.

Whereas the RX8 is a model of refinement...even against some other speed demons like the WRX and the EVO (which IMHO, define unrefined). That's a tough line to tread. If you're too refined, the perfromance edge is blunted. On the other hand, if you aren't refined enough, you end up with "boy racers" that have little in the way of daily driver qualities.

The performance field is being diced up ever so finely. The 350Z is moving more upscale while adding HP. The EVOs and WRXs aren't getting any slower (but still unrefined). GTO is going away, but it never did make much of a dent over the last couple of years. Toyota was never really in the game with the Celica. And, until recently, had nothing to offer with the exception of the Scion tC. Honda had all but left their performance to the tuner set (new Civic may change that).....NSX is going away (may come back)....prelude is long gone....

Mazda has a great opportunity to go to the head of the class for a world class sports car. I hope they take advantage of it soon.

thel · October 2005

2 of the 3 leftover GT's have the nav system.

The one for $31,500 doesn't, but it does have the nifty black and red leather interior. Apparantly, this one was backed into while on the lot, but I doubt that the dealer is willing to bakc off on thier price much, even in the face of the body repair.

trispec · October 2005

Them's fight'n words yall knows, birthed as I was down south '58. Went to high school in China Grove, N.C. where half the school worked in the local mills after school to pay for their "Red Neck" hot rods. Only twenty percent of my class even tried College. I drove a school bus at the age 17 packed with 75 elementary school kids, large groups of which I personally dropped off at large trailer parks all over Rowan County NC. I know everything "Red Neck" that there is to know.

Stock Car racing, the largest participation sport in the South, dwarfing all other professional sports combined, drives huge portions of the automobile industry. Year after year American sports car sells track to whatever car recieved the most pace car laps at the thousands of NASCAR races each year. Ford, Chrysler, and GM dealerships down south to this day need only count the laps of the various pace cars to know what sports cars to stock on their lots.

Agree with you I do that foreign sports cars are different oranges, but it's not so much "Red Necks" making an actually decision about any particular car, as it's the car dealerships respond to stock car racing's massive cultural marketing engine which continues to be unstoppable through out the South.

Imagine everyone you go to church with, you go to school with and you go to work with, also goes to the local NASCAR race track. Do you think you COULD by a foreign car? Come on, your whole life would break.

BTW, I know a retired Maine Lawyor, Ex-Marine, RNA member, former tobacca addict, who owns a nice chunk of backwoods Maine, who wouldn't be caught dead in any American Sports cars. He's owned early Mazda Rotaries, Mazda Miatas, and Mazda trucks.

secondcity · October 2005

Your right -there is really no comparison-The Mustang and Rx8, compared against each other, is apples and oranges. I know I bought my Rx8 for its looks and handling-first/ and for its performance-second. I did not want a car that looked like everybody else's car. I am not knocking the Mustang--It is VERY fast and has great low end torque--but the 8-for me-has a classier/more exotic look. Its funny--I live along the lake in Chicago--but--every now and then--when I venture to the burbs--thats when I get the 25 year old punk in the modified 1994 Eclipse, or a guy in a brand-spankin new Mustang GT that want to race. I'm in my early -mid thirties--so I do not feel the "need" to race as much as I did 10 years ago--but I often do oblige the young gear heads. Just last week-I went against a guy going through his "second" mid life crisis. He was 50+ years old -revving around in a Mustang with a young brunette half his age (his daughter?-no way!)---and he blew by me --even as I was chirping my tires while shifting into second gear. First gear--I hit 40 mph, he is ahead by about 7 ft, second gear-I am at 68 christ--I know I hit 60mph in less than 6.5 seconds-but that Mustang was a good 10-15 ft in front of me. Once our road turned to curves and twisties--i was able to make up some ground--but when the road straightened out-he pulled away like I was standing still. He teased me by letting me pass him at about 110--but he roared right back and flew past me as I was hitting 130+. I have driven stick my whole life--almost 18 years, and I know how to maximize speed/torque with my clutch-but this race was no contest. Did I whine and suck my thumb??--No. I still love my 8, and I would never trade it in for a Mustang. But -wow-his car was fast. If Mazda can work out its kinks in the 8's engine--and add a bit more torque in the low rpms and add about about 50 more horsepower--I'll buy the Rx8 again when my lease is done. I could care less if 4 people bought Mazda rx8's in the last year-I enjoy it. I enjoy it unless I have to race race a new Mustang again!. Geez--I hated getting spanked in a race--but i still love my 8. Rev on... Enjoy your oranges!

trispec · October 2005

Thanks, but on Boston's roads, I'll put up my RX-8 against any 'Stang. Especially in the fall, winter and spring when wet slick roads are the usual case. The 'Stangs fixed rear axle, even with LSD & TC, will become useless long before my much better balanced RX-8's intelligent suspension. I'll give'm the straight a ways all day long (there ain't many here), but 'Stangs are going to need to be to breaking the speed limit for way to long for me not to catch up to in this city which is chocked full of ancient cow path roads. And in the hundreds of Boston traffic rotaries 'Stang drivers turn into grandmas where I whip around them like a LeMans racer.

Also, 'Stang owners best employee a stable of chiropractors, cause the pot holes and frost heaves are going to violently whack the hell out of that rear axle. 'Stangers may even need hip replacement years early as their hips get banged into the hard sides of those crappy seats.

Oh yes, and our wonderful Mayor Minino, most popular Mayor in Boston's history they say, allows neighborhood groups to place moNSTer 6' wide speed bumps in all of those straight shot alleys they call "Thru Streets". The weight of 'Stangs engine block 6 & 8 cylinder is going to drive those front shocks through the frame for any speed over 20mph. My RX-8 zips over them like an elf at 50mph. Sorry Mr. Mayor.

lhess · October 2005

My entire family is a bunch of red necks (I might be considered borderline at times). They're not sports car men, though, big, smoking diesel trucks - big ones!! I never said I didn't love 'em!! And, I love the mustang - It can be an 80's model and it still catches my eye. I just think there is a very small number of folks that line up the Mustang and the RX8 and debate over which one they want to buy. They are both wonderful cars - they're just wonderful for different reasons!!

I would think that the closest foreign competitor to the Stang would be the 350Z. Especially since they've ponied it up a little with the extra hp's. The mustang is an AMERICAN icon. Heck, I have to park my "foreigner" at the end of the driveway when I go visit the family (haha).

To reiterate - I do not slam the Mustang, ever, I love it, and Red Neck, to me, is not a negative, it's a culture!!

dave54 · October 2005

Im planning to buy an 2005 RX-8 w/ the Grand Touring Package. Do you think im better off keeping the Bose System in the RX-8 or buying aftermarket audio components? And can some one give me the info on this Phatnoise system?

dwynne · October 2005

The audio system in any RX-8 is very "integrated" into the car and not much has been done in after-market stereo equipment for it. Some folks have replaced the speakers and/or a sub woofer but that is about it. I swapped out the OEM CD for the OEM MP3 player and it works quite well. The sound is "OK", but could use some help but given the limited choices I may just add a sub at some point.

Dennis

dave54 · October 2005

Can any one give me more information on the Phatnoise system?

rorr · October 2005

Don't know much about the Phatnoise system but it seems pretty dang expensive. And with the proliferation of iPods, it seems like it should be easier (and cheaper) to add a set of inputs for an iPod. Personally, I don't see any future to something as proprietary as the Phatnoise system given the explosion in portable mp3 player market. But that's just me.....

Anybody know if Mazda has plans to add an iPod input jack to future models, given the fact that the Solstice (major Miata competitor) and the Civic (major Mazda3 competitor) offer standard iPod jacks NOW? (Not to mention that the MustangGT offers a 6-disk CD changer which is mp3 compatible as standard equipment).

Personally, I think Mazda should make the mp3 compatible CD player available as standard equipment in the '06 model.

astral · October 2005

If you are getting the GT package, you can't avoid getting the Bose (

unfortunately). You may like the Bose, you never know.. replace the tweets and maybe add a sub, and you may be pretty happy. However, the Bose system is not all that great, and just doesn't shine in any particular aspect. If you aren't satisfied, you'll find yourself going the aftermarket route. I recommend keeping the stock headunit and beefing up everything else.

I am installing an audio system into my car, but I have the "base" (non-Bose) audio and so it's a little easier (cheaper?) to work with.

But it's a decision you can make yourself down the road, once you have the car. If you're not happy with the sound, then you can go aftermarket.

astral · October 2005

You can buy a P.I.E. auxiliary input adapter for about $80 (e.g. try mazdaparts com). That really should set up you for most iPod use.. get some adapter to mount your iPod within reach... and then you can plug in things other than the iPod, like a cell phone or a GPS.

plekto · October 2005

You can order it piecemail - just get the sport package and add the options seperately. Presto - no sunroof(driver seat is WAY too forward to look out it except sideways) and no Bose, plus no extra thousands.

graphicguy · October 2005

lhess....I see a lot of that "truck thing" here in SW OH, too. I get a big charge out of those guys who put the big chrome pipes from there exhaust, sticking up on either side of the cab. I laugh for no other reason than the fact if they wanted to drive a "big rig" around town, why not just buy a Kenworth and be done with it.

There's a lot of the "fast & furious" crowd around here, too. But, I think that's true all over the country.

Please don't misunderstand me. I think the RX8 is a hell of a car. I loved mine. But, if they are going to stay in the fight, instead of standing pat, Mazda needs to up the HP and exocise the car of some of it's foibles.

lhess · October 2005

I don't go to the track. I'm not interested in "mods" that will pump up the hp. I bought it for the good looks, decent-to-good performance, and the unusual factor. However, I completely understand that people like me don't put up the big numbers for any car manufacturer. Most people shopping sports car are looking at who's gonna pull ahead at the gun - not the 8 against any "real" sports car. That keeps a lot of folks from doing the deal.

As for the truck thing, my brother has chipped his powerstroke and I honestly expect the EPA to pull him over and shut him down. He cranks his little HP module and it's like that truck is feeding off of jet fuel (power, speed and SMOKE). He loves it!! No pipes up the cab, though, thank God!!

dwynne · October 2005

I got it a couple of weeks ago, but just took the time to watch it today.

It would have answered the tire pressure sensor issue that several folks (including me) had with the first cool mornings. It talks about and shows you how to check the oil, avoid flooding, and starting while flooding.

I would assume every RX-8 owner was mailed a copy - aimed at heading off the common problems and complaints (and keeping folks from ruining their cars).

I could try to convert it to an MPEG4 or something and post it, but I would think all should have been sent their own copy.

Dennis

Karen_S · October 2005

Edmunds.com Owners' Spotlight

trispec · October 2005

Being just a dumb southern who's been transplanted to Boston, here's a bit of perspective and stubbornness on this RX-8 vs Mustang comparison issue.

Since, Mustang sales can trace large chunks of marketing dollars to Ford's ties to stock car racing, long since integrated into the southern way of life, it is not surprising that the design of the car would follow strict adherence to the priorities of power, power and more power. You just need to go as fast as possible for a set number of laps, to hell with balanced car engineering design that true sports car should have.

As a kid growing up, in Raleigh N.C., I have memories of playing on an abandoned stock car racing track, running up and down the near 45 degree banked curves. These banked curves point to the central flaw of the stock car racing sport. The whole of the American stock car racing is designed to cover up the simple suspensions, the power oriented engine design and the poor air dynamics of "Stock Cars" by designing and building the race tracks to compensate by providing wide, flat, and long straight runs with nicely banked curves. Stock cars are all about simply mind numbing use of wide open throttles to create the ultimate spectacle of loud as hell and fast hell loop track car racing.

There's alot more to say about why and how all this happened down south, but fundamentally stock car racing is a powerful American car value system (sociological value system) which influences car design, car marketing, and car culture in American. But NASCAR influence has pushed car design into the very narrow of design box where engine power and price are the only dimensions.

American car design has fallen from it's global leadership role. GM, Ford and Chrysler spend billions on technology to demonstrate they are in the fight, but there is no reversing the trend at this point because the Germans, the Japanese, the Koreans, and the Chinese know they will ultimately crush America's big three former industrial giants. They know this because they look at the nostalgic fondness the Big Three have for traditional cars as the dead end designs.

Recently, American car design has nothing better to do than bring back design concepts from the '40s (PT Cruiser), '50s (Thunderbird), 60s(Chevy truck) and 70s(Mustang). All American car designs today, are integrated into business models built by accountants. Engineers don't build cars in America, accountants do. And the accountants believe car design in America is about a trip down memory lane. "Lets give'm that muscle car concept from our friends at NASCAR".

As my final comparison of the RX-8 vs Mustang I'll say this. The RX-8 takes bold design risks (four doors for four 6' adults). The RX-8 takes bold engineering risks (Renesis engine). The RX-8 is all about the high art of balancing design and engineering to creating a superbly functional modern sports car that all the car critics have praised as comparable to cars twice the RX-8's price. The 'Stang's design is straight from the early '70s. The 'Stangs engineering is from straight from NASCAR. The 'Stang is all about the high emotion generated by the marketing message "You can own an American icon".

Icons are icons because they are history.

plekto · October 2005

Recently, American car design has nothing better to do than bring back design concepts from the '40s (PT Cruiser),
***
II was looking at cars last night(looked at a 2001 IS300 for 20K) and saw a 2 year old PT Cruiser rotting on the used car lot. $8995 and the sign looked at least a week or more weathered. No takers, obviously.

The Lexus, OTOH, was gorgeous. I didn't buy it because I was in a bad mood - I missed a 1992 Saab 95 for 14K. Hell of a price, showroom(looked 100% brand-new, not a rental) condition by minutes - saw the ad, called, was available - got there and someone had bought it before I got there(30 mins travel time) - heh. Didn't feel like haggling the guy down to the 18K the IS should be going for.

So I keep looking. I'm just a bit wary of buying a used RX-8 given how poor people are with maintainence these days, and how people race and abuse anything sporty. I looked at the Mini and laughed - the dealer was "I won't even order one for you(4 month wait, btw) without a $4K markup".

So the search continues. GM is depressing. All I see is depreciation and old people. Ford is flimsy and I see repair bills ahead. Of roughly ten vehicles that friends and relatives have owned that are Fords, 8 of them were money-pits. My friend's old Bronco went through four transfer cases in 130 K miles, and three transmissions. His father's F150 sucked him dry. The Escort was in the shop every other month. They wisely traded it in for a Tacoma before the Escort ran out of warranty. My friend - got a 4-Runner. No repairs in three years for either other than the occasional clip here and bulb there and so on. Nothing major, even under the warranty.

But Toyota is "blegh". No soul other than a Scion Tc. But a 2005 Scion Tc... I might as well be getting an older IS300 or a RX-8.

I won't shed a single tear for GM when it goes under. If anything, it will force them to sell off their shares in all the small companies they bought into and maybe do things like sell Saab back to Saab.

trispec · October 2005

"...So the search continues. GM is depressing. All I see is depreciation and old people. Ford is flimsy and I see repair bills ahead. Of roughly ten vehicles that friends and relatives have owned that are Fords, 8 of them were money-pits..."

Yep. GM's experiment, Saturn, was interesting enough as concept, as simple designs and as cheap plastic cars. I bought '93(new), '98(used), 99(new), 2002(new) models. Up until 2002 I still thought the experiment was on track, but then the bottom fell out of resell values for all Saturns. Game over.

My family's Ford purchases, Mustang 5.0(new) and a loaded Mercury Sable(used), were noted for massive drop in resell, leaking oil and engine coolant and finally massive mounting repair bills."

As for miss treatment of sporty cars, you really can't hurt the RX-8 AT even if you try. You should try looking for a used RX-8 AT. The engine is limited to 7500 rpm even though it's able to go to 8500 because the transmission protects itself with a computer controlled clutch. If you hit the paddle down shift to 1st without enough head room, the computer will not allow the down shift.

You might find some city folk like me, who have real stop and go commutes love the RX-8 AT where the paddle shifter lets them play sports car drive, but when we tire of concentrating on the shifting we just flip on full auto. I'm guessing, but maybe some well healed RX-8 AT owners might be interested in upgrading to the new 2006 6 speed RX-8 AT so the 4 speed RX-8 ATs used might appear on the used lots.

plekto · October 2005

The manuals don't have a rev-limiter/computer override? I tried the 2006 AT and loved it - I didn't realize, though, that the 2005s and earlier had only a 4-speed. I'll have to try them. I'm just worried about repair bills on the automatic transmission - it's full of electronics and computers and if it dies, the thing is a rock.(I can at least coax a failing clutch to the shop)

The mechanical concern, though, is about the oil. You have to check it every fillup or two, and few peolpe do so much as fill the windshield washers when they run out. Still, a RX-8 with 20-30K on it is still under warranty, so I could always get it extended for a few years.

I look at the metal and quality of a used IS300 or RX-8 and compare it to a new Sentra or Civic and it's a wonder there's any new car market at the low-end. Well, perhaps that's the exact reason - people have become scared and are opting for off-lease luxury cars instead of new econoboxes.

So far - top cars:
- RX-8 - A Ninja 500 that seats 4 people.

As refined as the Kawasakis as well. The 350Z - it's like a Harley - in your face and lets you know it. I like refined and quet myself, if I have a choice.
- IS300 - Amazing with the wheel-mounted shifters - reminds me of a Volvo 240 Turbo, but with better handling. Solid car with the right combination of engine and drivetrain.
- Wrangler V6 (just cuz and it's a good investment - indestructable design)
- Saab/Older Volvo(pre S40)/Older square-body(1997/1998) Mercedes - the last of the foriegn tanks..
- Mini - if I could find a dealer who would order one for MSRP - why? Because the things loose maybe 1$K a year in value, given the insane markups on them new.

But the IS300 and RX-8 still top the list.

qbrozen · October 2005

i find it odd that you say you like refined and quiet, but then there is a Wrangler on your list. Have you driven one? I unfortunately got saddled with one as a loaner a couple of weeks ago for 3 days. My first vehicle was a CJ7 and i LOVED that vehicle. This Wrangler? I absolutely HATED it. I don't know if its because I've just gotten used to a bit of luxury or if it truly is that much worse than my CJ. In any case, its NOT a vehicle I would want to drive around in on any kind of regular basis.

plekto · October 2005

It's because I have friends who go off-roading in the desert. It's the exact opposite of what I want, yet it make the list - go fig

grantlu · October 2005

I went to the Zoom Zoom Live event put on by Mazda in Atlanta (Motor Speedway). When I got the emailed invitation from Mazda, I thought it was directed to Mazda owners. However, when I got to the parking lot, there were very few Mazdas, i.e. it was a general public event. There are still a few more events to be held; see www.zoomzoomlive.com for details.

Basically, they take some big parking lots, set up cones, have about 8-10 cars on each course and "set you loose" (about 20 seconds apart). There are four courses. They can kick you out if you drive recklessly (knock down too many cones or spin out the car).

It was fun to drive near the car limits. However, there was a fairly long wait time for each drive (average about 30 minutes). The course took 35-50 seconds to complete (depending on which course). Therefore, the best thing is to reserve an early time. I reserved for 2 pm, not realizing how long the whole thing would take and that they would close at 3:45. So, I missed out on the last course which was having a pro ride with you in the RX8...

graphicguy · October 2005

pletko.....you may find a Jeep entertaining in off-road runs, but they are definitely one of the worst vehicles for everyday driving I've ever been in. I've not driven one in a couple of years, but the last one I drove was so loud, drafty, unrefined, uncomfortable, I still remember what it was like years later.

IS300....hmmm.....kind of a "swing and miss" for Lexus. The "bling" crowd seems to like them, though.

I don't know enough about Volvos to make a judgement. Last one I drove was a mid-90s 5 cyl one. Probably not a good comparison to today's cars, though. I've sat in the seats of those they have at car shows. I can unequivolcally say that Volvos have the best seats in all of cardom.

Refined, quick, handles great....you've kind of narrowed your choices to the RX8. Considering what they're selling for (deeply discounted used and new), they make for a compelling buy.

350Zs are another vehicle I liked, but dismissed because of the refinement factor. Although, they do bring a certain "panache" to the table that goes along with the 3.5L engines that Nissan uses so much. Very "torquey" and fun to drive. Storage capacity is woeful, though.

q...off topic, but I'm actually seriously considering selling the Mustang. I've had several offers (some from dealers) of at or very near MSRP. With winter coming up, and the prospect of letting it sit in the garage all winter, I may pull the trigger since I bought it on Ford's X plan.

plekto · October 2005

I know.. lol... yet a non-"bling" IS300 is still a fantastic car, easily better than any Accord or Camry, or other midsize sedan. It's not an A4 or C240, mind you, but then again, it's way more reliable.

Saab (older models) made the list because they handle and drive exactly like the older Volvos, back when it was designed in Sweden. I'm not a fan of small turbos, though, but if it's relatively new, they can be fine(my 240 Turbo I had was a great car, too) Newer Volvos - not as impressed.

Yet I love the "nobody has this car" and "totally different engine" aspect of the RX-8. The only huge negative is the mileage, though perhaps the 6speed automatic will address this. Any info on when the 2006s come out?

qbrozen · October 2005

DO IT!

Heck, IMHO, anytime you can drive and enjoy a car for a while and get out of it with zero loss (or, your case, a profit!!), I say do it. You are in an EXTREMELY rare case where you can do this in a new car! Don't miss out on the oppurtunity.

besides, then you get to car shop again! What is better??

plekto · October 2005

The Honda Fit and a couple of other small cars are going to come over this coming up year and next, and the Mini is due for a total restyling for 2007, which is likely to kill the value of the older ones(something's got to eventually give).

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2006_Mazda_RX-8.shtml
That's the specs for the 6-speed automatic. 18/25. I suspect that while it's only 1mpg better than the 2005, in practice, it will jump from the 20mpg combined that everyone is reporting to 22-23combined, if you have the stock tires and drive conservatively on the freeway. (18 inchers loose you 1-2mpg highway right there over the 16" all-seasons)

I just wish I could afford one new. Lol.

trispec · October 2005

The 6sp AT can't really use the 5th & 6th in the city. Paddle shifting in the city you are lucky to use 1st & 2nd effectively. It's only the highway travel that make the 6 speeds even possible.

But everyone forgets that 3rd and 4th are overdrive assisted in the 2003-05 RX-8 which gives you a 5th & 6th gear effectively already, you just can't select overdrive with the paddles or stick. Who cares, especially if 1st, 2nd are all that city driving calls for. The RX-8 is not a highway communter anyway, at the 25mph, best get a tranditional 100 year old 6 cylinder engine design, (Hybrid drivers - you are just nerds, so get out of the way). But the RX-8 is built to make a city driving commutes more like a first person shooter video game and agression theropy session combined.

My wife loves how relaxed I am when I get home, having won a dozen smack down street races on the way. I just let my RX-8 twin wolves howl all the way home, only paddle shifting to third for the parade celibrations in the hood.

She's Nordic Green, so the sheep don't even see me until I've blown by them. My car is just way way to much fun.

plekto · October 2005

But 25mpg is a huge hurdle to pass, much like 20mpg is for SUVs and 50mpg is for the ultra-frugal minicars. And unfortunately a lot of time is spent in highway traffic out here in California, so every bit helps. My LeSabre got 19/27 from the factory and nobody complained about its mileage.

I honestly don't know why the reviewers don't like the RX-8. Well, the ones in the U.S. I suspect have a bit of an exe to grind, but it's a super-cheap car that's worlds better than a Sentra SE-R or any number of cars that cost 4-5K less. $2500 in financing and rebates on a 2005 RX-8 drop it to around $22K(including $500 or so in dealer profit over invoice) for the automatic with nothing on it!

$22K for a RX-8 or $19K for a Scion Tc or $18K for a Sentra SE-R Spec V or... Well, you get the point. Silly not to spend the extra money

And try to get a rebate or good financing on a 350Z - you'll likely have to pay 4-5K premium on it, and to option it out as nice as the RX-8, it climbs to 35K+ by the time the markup and everything else is factored in. The RX-8 seems to be a steal by comparison, considering that an old 80's M3 was more car than 90% of drivers could ever need or handle, and this is easily as good as something like we lusted after in high school(to put some non-auto magazine reality in the discussion)

But I'm preaching to the crowd

I think I'll wait for the 2006s to come out - the 2005s, especially the slower selling(here in L.A. at least they are) manual models, should sell for several thousand less. win-win.

graphicguy · October 2005

q....you tempt me too much.

Actually, I was stopped a couple of weeks ago at Lowes when I was in the Mustang. A guy, who said he owned "a car shop" (whatever that means) told me he had a Mustang on order since July '04 and still hasn't been able to get a manual tranny version. He said he wanted a redfire with red leather (which is what mine has). I told him what I tell most everyone here who wants a Mustang.....just order an '06 and wait your turn. He said he wanted a "first year new Mustang" model....meaning an '05. OF course, those are long gone. From what this guy said, he's been scouring for a redfire/red GT with a manual tranny (said he could find automatics) with the aluminum dash for months with no luck. I've only got about 4K miles on mine and it looks better than when I drove it off the lot since I've got about 10 coats of wax on it now. He offered me $28K, even (which is $50 less than MSRP....I paid $2,500 less than that on X plan). They've gone through a couple of price increases since I bought mine, too.

I dismissed him at first, since this is such a rarity in the car biz. But, two months ago, I had a Toyota DEALER offer me $28K for it when the weather was still nice. The Ford dealer I bought from offered me exactly what I paid for it ($25.5K) at the same time. Terry (RWTIV) said they were running around $27K at the auctions a couple of months ago.

This guy has called me a couple of times since then. I told him I'd take a cashier's check drawn on a local bank, if he was serious. Supposedly, he's coming with the check this weekend. We'll see. I've had the car almost 9 months. Winter's coming and I won't drive it much over the coming months. So, if this guy comes through, I'll pull the trigger.

You missing you're "Z"?

pletko...the RX8 is a "hell of a deal" right now. I can only suspect that some of the RX8's earlier buggaboos may have hurt it. But, it's a great buy for a unique, sporting driving machine. Don't know why, but the when the Z came out, it was priced very near the price of the RX8. Yet, the Z has held it's resale much better.

RX8 or a Z would be a great car, IMHO.

qbrozen · October 2005

That's great!

Of course, subtract your tax and tags and the profit isn't that great. But, heck, its a PROFIT! On a car! I hope he comes through for you.

SOOOO.... what is next? An '06 Stang? Or back to the drawing board? What about going back to the RX8? Or, if you are concerned with winter driving ... maybe something with AWD?

Yes! I miss my Z dearly. But, at the same time, my new used ride (lincoln LS) is much more comfortable and quiet. So its an interesting trade-off. I was actually talking to my wife this morning about how I know in my head that the Z is quite a bit faster than the LS (about a full second difference 0-60), but that the LS actually scares the heck out of me way more than the Z ever could. The Z just always felt perfectly balanced and controlled, even at full throttle. The LS, on the other hand, makes me want to back off. I guess that just goes along with trying to make a close to 2-ton relatively large sedan move like a sportscar.

Its funny, a coworker of mine saw an RX8 yesterday and said "jeez. i didn't think about it, but why didn't you get one of those?" Of course, like I've said before, I WANTED one, but Mazda just didn't make it tall-person friendly. Oh well.

graphicguy · October 2005

q....funny about this post. The guy that's supposed to be buying the Mustang just called me about 20 minutes ago. He wanted to know if a cashier's check from "XXX" Bank would suffice. As luck would have it, it's the same bank I have my accounts with.

Again, proof is in the "puddin". We're supposed to consumate this deal on Friday night. There are some other mitigaing factors driving this, too. My 19 year old son (who is attending college and still living with me) is having some insurance rate "creep" given some problems with an unfortunate accident. The Mustang isn't helping that, in any way.

You're right. After all the taxes, fees, licensing, etc are taken into account, the profit isn't nearly as big as it looks. I still figure I'll come out at least $1,000-$1,500 ahead, though. In the months I've had the Mustang, the only thing I've done is put gas in it. I had the oil changed once, already. But, the dealership "comped" it.

If (BIG IF) this does actually happen the way it's supposed to happen, I'm not sure what I'll get. I've got a 4Runner already, and am very pleased with it (except for gas prices.....still, it's getting about 19-20 MPG around town).

I'll take another gander at the '05 RX8. With the deals I'm seeing here, I can get one all loaded up for roughly the same price I paid for the Mustang. But, I'm also thinking I should consider looking at something that I can drive year round.

I kind of see where you're at, too. In all reality, I couldn't really explore the potential of something like an RX8, Mustang GT, or 350Z....even driving them in Spring/Summer/Fall.

What you sacrificed ("nth degree of speed and handling) with the 350Z, you more than made up with some "sportiness" combined with luxury in the Lincoln LS.

I'm not sure how much I'll miss my sports car fetish. Between the RX8 and the Mustang, I've been satiated (at least that's what I'm telling myself). I don't know how I'll feel about not having a sports car once Spring rolls around.

Maybe something in between.

I'm thinking perhaps a G35? I've seen them around a lot. Not real taken with their interior, but I know they've got the wonderful 3.5L and the alleged sterling "Infiniti ownership experience". Was invited to the Lexus dealership roll out of the new IS. But, the 250 is slow. 350 is really fast, but getting one optioned out puts it perilously close to a new Corvette (in which case I'm right back into the sports car "thing" again). Plus, both ISs are very claustrophobic....and I'm not that big (6'-180 lbs).

I'm intrigued by the Acura RL. Giving a quick look at pricing and it looks like Acura is making good year end deals on those ($41K-$42K). They're AWD with 300 HP and more luxury than I'll ever use. Supposedly, the TL is more sporting, though. I may have to drive both. Plus, like Hondas, Acuras are relatively bulletproof and require little in the way of maintenance.

Neighbor has an '04 BMW 5 Series. Having been a former BMW owner, I haven't yet got the high maintenance and low reliability "taste" out of memory. Still, they're nice cars and the new ones are supposed to be even better.

Audi quatro of some sort, perhaps?

In short, I don't know what's on the horizon. I'm thinking about other cars, but until I acutally get the cash from the Mustang, I'm not counting on anything.

qbrozen · October 2005

Something to think about - a dealer at $27K would be better than a private sale at $28K, given the tax advantage (that is, if taxes work in your state like they do mine). SO, if this guy doesn't come through, a trade-in could still be in your future.

graphicguy · October 2005

q....you make a good point I hadn't thought about. If I could get a dealer to give me $27K for it, it'll make a difference on the tax side of what I end up buying.

Problem there is, the $27K offer is from a Ford dealer. Right now, short of ordering a new '06 Mustang, they don't have anything that interests me.

That means I'd need to get an Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, Audi, BMW, Mazda, etc dealer to give me that kind of $$$$$. First, I'd have to decide what I wanted, though. Plus, I'd have to do a ton of research with printouts, calculators, etc.

Plus, as you know, that adds another level of complexity to the deal given I'd have to go through the "give me X for my trade and I'll pay Y for your new car". And, depending on how Jupitor aligns with Mars on the particular day I was shopping at that particular dealership, I'm certain that all the deals will be substantially different from each other.

That said, it would force me to drive a bunch of different cars to make up my mind. That, in and of itself, should be fun.

qbrozen · October 2005

heck, you just described my favorite hobby perfectly.

I think we need to take this to the CCBA board.

vooch · October 2005

Mustang this Mustang that...

Does any one have any info about the mpg on the 2006 or any future RX8s? I find it hard to swallow 13mpg. The Z06 gets like 19 while racing and it has 505hp! That's what a car mag says anyway

I'd take the renesis and all its quirks but getting a real world 15-16mpg all the time really puts me off. It is what I really want but I can't see paying that much money for a 3k lb car with a 1.3liter engine that gets the mileage of a dump truck. If it really got the mileage on the sticker, it wouldn't be bad at all. I do like 90%+ city driving and currently get ~25mpg. Makes me question if a rotary is worth it.

rorr · October 2005

"The Z06 gets like 19 while racing and it has 505hp! That's what a car mag says anyway "

Either they lie or their definition of 'racing' is somewhat different than mine. You keep you foot buried in the carpet in a Z06 and your mileage will be a LOOOOOOONG way from 19.....

graphicguy · October 2005

vooch....sorry about that. Q and I got off on a tangent. We've been hanging out at Edmunds too long.

Anyway, back to your MPG concerns. When I owned my beloved RX8, it was really a Jekyl & Hyde regarding MPG. If I was stuck in stop & go traffic a lot, MPG was dismal. If I kept moving, it happened to get quite a bit better.

At one point, I was getting about 17-18 MPG city and about 22-24 MPG highway. You throw a couple of traffic jams in the mix on a tankful, and you're right at the mileage you're talking about. Size of the engine, particularly with rotaries, really has no bearing on MPG. Any other 1.3L engine, in a fairly lightweight car, will get sterling MPG. BUT, a production piston 1.3L engine won't get anywhere near 238HP or will be capable of 9K RPM, either.

So, looking at what the RENESIS can do, it's MPG is not surprising.

BTW....a golfing buddy has an '04 'vette. His MPG would just about mirror what I was getting in my RX8. He was expecting to get high 20s, but has yet to crack anything over 22 MPG.....and that's with GM's "skip shift" tranny that comes into play in all stop and go driving (goes from 1st to 4th and doesn't allow any shifts in between below ~2.5K RPM).

qbrozen · October 2005

Since the '06 RX8 is no different from the previous years (to my knowledge), don't expect any difference in mpg figures.

llbeanjeep · October 2005

People, people... back to reality please. :shades:

IF you really do want a RX8, who cares about MPG?! Shouldn't be a factor in your decision at all when deciding between this and that, etc. That's not why we buy them. If you're overly concerned with it, the car probably isn't for you. Just like if you care about that when shopping for SUVs, you're silly. You buy an SUV for the space/kids/4 wheeling, etc. You buy a RX8 for speed, style, looks at lights, and the irreplaceable "fun factor". C'mon now. MPG?!! Ugh. If it gets good MPG, it's a bonus. Not the core value of the car.

AND... If the high gas prices have you wondering if you can afford a few more tanks a month with mid/super gas, then you probably can't afford the car anyway!

Geez.... MPG in the RX8?! SOOO many better things about this car to focus on.

pathstar1 · October 2005

is not a big deal. You have to bite the bullet and buy four "winter" tires. We got Nokian WR "all season" tires and find them great. You could use them all year, but the "summer performance tires" the RX-8 comes with (I'm talking the 18" wheel option) do have better traction on warm dry roads. We got 17" aluminum AR wheels (nice open spoke pattern - six as I recall) and put stock size on them only in 17" dia. (of course) - got the smaller dia. to give more room for ice buildup in the wheelwells. The car handles very well in ice and snow, and the TCS/DSC and antilock brakes keeps everything in control. I was so impressed I put Nokian WRs on my 2001 Pathfinder. They also perform very nicely there!

Using the vehicle in the winter means you need to use a "manual" car wash - where you pull in and wash using their pressure wands. Just feed it money.

I start by washing inside the wheel wells and under the sides, then go to the top and work my way down. Don't forget inside the rear bumper-cover. Salt etc. can build up in there as well.

Other than that it's a nice car in the winter. Just don't let it sit outside if it's going below about -10F. Too easy to flood at those cold temps. and Mazda will not let dealers install any form of "block heater", including the heater hose pump type. They say it confuses the computer. They may be changing that now, however. Our dealer said recently they would install the inline type if we want.

graphicguy · October 2005

pathstar....good advice.

I think any modern day car with TCS and good snow tires can pretty much be a year round car.

I do have a garage. But, even being heated, it regularly gets to freezing or below when the weather gets real nasty. While I didn't have any issues starting my RX8 in the 2 plus years I had it, there can be days when the temps get pretty low in the middle of the U.S. Flooding would be a concern.

Ground clearance also comes into play when the snow gets deep enough. While, it is a function of how any municipality cleans up the roads during the winter, I happen to be in a rural area of a big city. Roads may not get cleaned for days after a major storm. Last thing I want to do is to "beach" a car in the snow because of low clearance.

emeraldhue · October 2005

Just a question about winter tires. I have a Shinka MT. I live about 10 miles from work, and the snow season is coming up. Should I buy 18" snow tires or a smaller version to allow for build-up in the snow? Also, should I let the dealer mechanics install the tires to ensure that they work with the tire pressure sensor?

plekto · October 2005

I'd personally get a set of standard 16 inch wheels for it and put some good Michellin all-seasons on it. Problem solved, especially with the stability control working(and having something to work with as well). Those... well ANY 18 inchers will eat into your mpg and budget fast. 16 inch all-seasons are a dime a dozen, even in that size, by comparison. Easier, too to swap the entire set twice a year.

***
As for the MPG - people don't get it. It's a 1.3L engine, but it develops power on 3/4 of the cycle, whereas an IC engine does it on 1/4 of the entire cycle. So it's a *THREE STROKE* engine, like a super version of a dual-stroke on your atv or dirtbike. Huge power in a small package.

It's equivalent to a 3.9L V6(two rotors times three combustion areas) - so it gets predictable gas mileage considering the gearing is made for sportiness instead of highway idling at 60mph.

***
Lastly, petition all of the magazines. It's NOT A SPORTSCAR. They make it look bad almsot on purpose. What it is - it's a luxury coupe/sedan with fancy sheetmetal to look sportier.

Read the reviews of the luxury sprt sedan competition here - then look at the spes. If the RX-8 was included it would have taken 2nd or 3rd place. It's as fast as an IS300, handles as well, and gets only a little worse mileage. It's tons faster than anything other than a BWM 3 series. Let me state that again, but clearer - the RX-8 is virtually equavalent to an IS300 other than the fancy doors and sheetmetal, when it comes to performance. Blows the doors off of an Audi A4, a C230K, and... well, read the sports sedan competition with a printout of the RX-8s times and specs. See how spitting-distance close they all are.

Of course it's not a Z. Silly people. It's a sportscar-looking luxury coupe. And a really inexpensive one at that.

vooch · October 2005

I think llbeanjeep hit it on the head for me...

"AND... If the high gas prices have you wondering if you can afford a few more tanks a month with mid/super gas, then you probably can't afford the car anyway!"

It's about on the tippy top of what I can afford. So the mpg scares me. I still think they can do much better with it though. Compared it to the Mustang v6, which is a 4.0l, it still sucks though, assuming that's accurate, unlike the RX8.

I was assuming they were racing the Z06 (at least driving it very hard) since they were doing a supercar comparison... I don't think those car mags drive sports cars lightly. Regardless, 19mpg under any condition is still amazing.

The RX8 is just a slot (in price) above a loaded midsize sedan, so expecting something similar I don't think is unreasonable. It's not like its a supercar that you are paying mega bucks for. Who cars about maintenance etc. if you purchase something like that. The rest of us have to though! At least I do

Thanks for the comments.

pathstar1 · October 2005

I don't think you will experience flooding due to the cold. We only have trouble when it gets down to -30C. As for getting "beached", the RX-8 actually has quite a bit of ground clearance. Similar to most "sedans". We haven't had any trouble, although here in Edmonton Alberta we don't usually get deep wet snow - only once or twice a year. Our "normal" snow is 3-4 in. at a time of nice dry snow. It squeeks when you drive.

As for smaller wheels for ice clearance, we did that because it stays below freezing (way below) for months at a time here! The ice tends to build up until we wash the car. If you live in a more temperate climate it wouldn't be necessary to go with a smaller wheel. As for the tire pressure monitors, you can replace all four wheels with different ones without the monitors if you like. You will get a light on but that's all. Once you change back to the summer wheels/tire in the spring the light goes out and nothing abnormal/bad happens.

Mazda RX-8

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