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Comments
Bob
For those of you who, like the beautiful people in the Honda commercials, aren't rock climbers a roof problem is a rock feature which resembles a ceiling, it's horizontal and requires both power and finess to successfully negotiate. The one glimpsed in the Honda Element ad is at Cap Rock parking lot, Joshua Tree National Park, just in case any of you are interested in the outdoors.
A few have posted here that the 4wd feels sluggish at best.
I have driven the 2wd and can live with the ride and handling but am now curious if there is that much of a significant difference between the 2.
We love many things about the car and want the 4wd for skylight and possible beach exploring capability.
I have a refundable deposit on a 4wd ex and am eager to drive it, but if it's a dog the search begins anew.
The CRV was my pick but now wish there could be more leg room up front after comparing with the E.
Any other impressions re the 4wd E?
Stu
I just drove a Silver EX 4WD automatic last night and it does not compare to the 2WD 5spd I drove a week or two ago.
They are two completely different beasts.
The auto 4wd is sluggish. The 2wd 5spd revs happily through its close ratio gears and chirps the tires in 2nd.
If any of you who are shopping the Element are concerned about power I recommend the 5spd. It makes a big difference. If you can live without 4wd, even better as far as performance is concerned.
About a week later, I saw a Silver EX on the dealer lot. I was much more impressed with the overall look this time. And much to my surprise, I liked the two-tone look with the Silver. My wife also liked the exterior look much more the second time around. My 21 year old daughter hated the look both times, and maybe even more the second time to see it. Anyway, we looked it over thoroughly and we were able to test drive it.
Some of my driving impressions. The 4WD, Automatic seemed underpowered. It's probably because I'm used to the Honda Pilot, which definitely has more power and a more solid feel.
It feels like there's a lot of space between the dashboard and windshield which felt "different". I wasn't bothered by the thicker pillar between the windshield and door, which some people have commented about. When I had to make a tight turn into a tight parking space, I didn't have a good feel for where the Element was in relation to the cars on either side. I think this is probably just not being used to driving the Element. I think with time, the Element would probably feel very manuverable and easy to park.
My wife also did a short test drive and she felt it drove ok. She thought she would have difficulty with sight lines, but didn't think so after driving it.
My wife and daughter were very bothered by the difficulty in exiting from the backseats because of the suicide doors. My wife also didn't like the pop open back windows or the pop open sunroof.
So, after the test drive I thought it would make a good utility car. My wife was very put off by the suicide doors so she's a bit on the negative side about it. And my daughter who fits the demographic absolutely hates it. So, while it's not totally written off, we're now going to take a much closer look at a Highlander. We'll see what happens.
stuartc (message 1540) - "my daughter who fits the demographic absolutely hates it". While your daughter may be in the target age group for this auto, I really don't think she is the target demographic.
I think Honda is going more for the male population with the Element. I think they did their job correctly if most women hate it. Most women don't care if you can fold down all the seats to sleep in them, they want a motel room. Most women don't want rubber floors, they want plush carpet.
I am probably more the target demographic. A 28 year old male, mountain biker, beach lover. Muddy biking shoes, no problem. Wet swimsuit, no problem. Wipe it out, done. No vacuuming or shampooing carpet.
I also think that most women care more about what others think about what they drive than guys do. If there is a chance that their friends won't think their car is cute or luxurious enough, they will be apprehensive about purchasing it. This will chase off many prospective women Element buyers.
I think the engine is very peppy with 1 or 2 people & no equipment. I test drove a DX 5spd & found it more that adequate. I took it up a long steep hill & could still get it to accelerate in 5th gear. My Saturn (100hp) needs to drop down to 4th just to maintain speed. It's not going to win any stoplight wars. I agree that the engine will probably be pretty bogged down with a full load & climbing a steep grade.
I'm 6'4" & was VERY impressed with the head room in front. Head room in back was a bit tight for me, due to the elevated seating. Leg room up front could have been better, and I wish the back seats could slide forward to give better storage area in back. Rear leg room is MASSIVE.
I guess Honda got what they wanted, which is to get this 28 year old male into their showroom. I have never driven a Honda before, thinking all they made was cars for my parents & grandparents (excluding the Civic). I liked the Element! Will I buy one? Not sure yet.
All this being said, I still want one.
Surprisingly I haven't seen many 2003 Accords on the road even thought they are selling well.
http://autos.msn.com/vip/newoverview.aspx?make=Honda&model=Element&src=LeftNav&pos=Find
For some laughs go to the the Aztek reviews.
I had a 1984 Toyota Tercel 4wd wagon with a stick shift (5 speed with a 6th speed granny gear when in 4 wheel drive mode/ extra low). That vehicle had about 80 horsepower. I got over 40 miles per gallon on the highway on a stretch to Las Vegas, Nevada. Now then the Element has about twice the horsepower of my old Tercel, and I doubt the Element is tremendously heavier. I haven't driven one yet, but wonder if "underpowered" is a concept used by speed demons only, or if the vehicle is really a slug.
I drove a Nissan Murano several days ago; plenty of power, and nicely detailed. Much more moola, however.
For FWD performance applications there are several aftermarket suppliers, from Cuzco, Quaife, Nizmo and Kaaz. Their units start around $6-800 and are popular with "Sport-Compact Drag" folks.
-mike
Now the good stuff: Great ride, not as good as Pilot or Odyssey but I love the face space. I thought it was stupid to put the A pillers out like that, but wind noise wasn't bad and the visibility was great- the blind spot is different, but not in a bad area, it is very easy to see when turning. I took a four hour trip with a friend and although she hated the looks (still beats a mini van, she tells me) we both agreed that the head room and face room made it a very relaxed and comfortable ride, we felt we had just spent the afternoon having a pleasant conversation in the living room. Kind of like a big conversion van, but without the gas guzzling or boat steering. In her vibe, we'd have felt beaten down after 300 miles battling semis with our faces pressed against the windshield, so I guess it's not wasted space as I thought it would be. I'm 6'2 so I like the head room, but the door armrest is too far forward for me, and I'm not overly impressed with the comfort of the seat. I don't understand the comparisons to CRV- either you want extra space in the back, or you don't. Compare the CRV to a Santa Fe or a pathfinder or any number of fold-down models, but if you need room for dirty stuff what else can you get that drives like a car and gets 24 MPG??? Oh yeah, a mini-van, I forgot...
Finally I have decided to wait for a 2wd manual, in almost any color BUT green, and see how that feels. In Palo Alto the Elements are getting snapped up as soon as they arrive, and I was really letting EBF (Element Buyer Frenzy) get to me, as well as the good 3.43 finance rate through the end of the year. For a whole day I was experiencing buyer's remorse before I had even bought the damn thing. My lesson: definitely wait for what feels exactly right for me, and pass on the thrill of being one of the first to own that wacky new Element. My 1985 Civic Wagon (bless that great little car) will have to survive a few more thousand beyond her 204K.
Anyway it is a pleasure to read people's well considered responses to what is still a pretty exciting automotive option.
This concept has much less controversial looks and probably would appeal to the right demographic.
http://www.focaljet.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=58;t=000220
Anyway, I myself was on the verge on replacing my well-loved Passat Wagon '99 after a test drive, but the Honda dealership's (Brown Charlottesville, Virginia) unreasonable stance to trade-ins and accessories made me walk away for the time being.
I personally think the Green is way best for it, contrary to several posts here. The silver is so conventional as it does not suit its personality. But as we all know, colors are one of the most subjective attributes, so luckily it's offered in several colors.
My biggest reservation is the fuel economy. I know this will shock some people, but I would have preferred a little less power for an over 30 mpg highway rating. Of course, a modern common-rail turbo diesel would be even nicer (more power, less consumption), particularly since the added torque would fit this trucklet beautifully, but that's just a pipe dream of mine in the U.S.
Honda to Make Music With New Studio E Concept
The wheels and tires look like they came off a Hot Wheels car.
The info available seems to say that this accessory is only for the automatic Elements.
This has prompted many including myself to assume that, in a 5 spd, there would be some sort of fit problem, with the elbow bumping the armrest as you row the gears. Nope it's fine.
My local dealer put all kinds of accessories on their solitary 5spd DX including the armrest and I took it for another spin.
The storage armrest works fine with the 5spd. Very comfortable. I don't know about you but I'm used to some storage under my right elbow and I would not want to give that up.
I thought the optional grey metal trim pieces on the dash looked good. Quite in character with the overall style of the Element.
The local salesman I'm working with is quite laid back (he's a surfer like me) and he didn't object at all to my taking the DX through some twisty roads. I pushed it pretty hard through some turns in various Malibu canyons.
I'm really quite impressed with this little truck's handling. It almost feels like one of my favorite cars that I owned in the 80's, a VW GTI...roomy, torquey little motor, close ratio gears, and agile through the turns.
Of course the Element has much more room and not exactly the handling of a GTI but it is awfully sporty for an SUV.
My .02 cents.
Why do I love it? Let me recount the ways (not in any particular order of importance).
-4WD
-Interior morphs into several configurations
-Very roomy drivers area (I am gravitationally challanged.)
-A 10 on the gawk factor scale
-Wash & wear interior
-Better gas mileage than my other cars
-Button-cute exterior styling
-Interior styling of Apollo moon lander meets Land Rover
-Peppy enough performance for my needs (work, trips, no NASCAR racing)
In addition, I like the idea that I don't have to pay for accessories that I don't want. I can add those extras that I deem desirable & leave the rest off. Modularity.
Just one man's opinion. The Element works for me.
I find the Element to be surprisingly agile. I am amazed how totally perfect this vehicle is in what it sets out to do. Again, everything works exactingly correct. No reason to return to the dealership. Sound system is pleasing; lots of bass and a separate sub-woofer control. I wish the highs were a bit crisper and that a 6 disc dashboard CD player was standard, as it is in the the CR-V EX.
Gas mileage: First test was a tad above 24 mpg, 70% freeway; 30% city. Second test which was a 50/50 split came in at 22.7
Seats are very comfortable, no complaints. I expected lots of blockage from the A-pillar and instead was surprised how far back the pillar actually is - and how wide the windshield is. Drove to Solana Beach from San Diego with three passengers. Perhaps due to the "suicide doors" or the very high seats in the rear, my two rear passengers loved it . . . Maybe there's the "novelty" factor? At b'fast we saw at least 15 bicyclists stop, peer, touch, etc . . . So get ready for that. This small truck is a media event at this point.
The ride is very tight . . and somewhat jiggly. It's fine. No complaints. Sounds transmission is minimal . . .very quiet at speed, and the engine sounds and feels more like a 6 than the 4 it is. My FWD EX has the 4 speed automatic - unlike many 4 cyl. engines this one does NOT hunt for the right gear. At freeway speeds, it stays in gear, without complaints. Does not jump from gear to gear. Power is perfectly adequate.
The rear doors . . . .that's part of the deal. I love it. It's far from conventional. Not for everyone. Tyler, my Lab, LOVES it. For the first time, he doesn't sit on hard surface. I lay the rear seat backs flat, put his bed on it . . . and he's seems to be very happy! Funny to see him bouncing up and down a bit, from the large cushion. At least he's not on a hard surface.
I know I must sound as though I work for Honda . . . I don't. I really love this wierd, quirky, non run-of-the-mill truck. For me, it has a bit of soul. I'd be glad to answer any questions. Peter
Since my last post, my 2 year old has decided to call our Element the "funky monkey car." Also since my last post, I'm almost embarrassed by the amount of attention this car draws ("did you bring this back from Europe?" "Is this the new Range Rover?" etc, etc, etc.)
The funny thing is that most of the comments come from the 20-30 year old target market (including, interestingly, two 20-something years olds driving a new Lincoln Town Car) and all seem to want this car so maybe the target market was accurately identified and it will only take time for them to pony up and buy this car/truck/suv/minivan/ whatever)
Drove the car in 2+" snow last night and drives and handles great. Only noticeable drawbacks are very small interior rear view mirror (easily solved by buying a larger one at auto supply store), slightly bumpy ride and somewhat limited view due to B-pillar placement. Can't wait to get accessories from hondacuraworld.com (can't vouch for availability of parts or their promptness in getting them to me but the prices are 30-40% below list).
The fold flat front seats make a great diaper changing table.
I've parked this car next to a BMW X5 and last generation Ford Explorer and its not really much shorter. Also, I previously owned an Isuzu Trooper and this car has nearly indetical interior space (with the added advantage of being able to remove the rear seat) but not nearly the same towing capacity.
FINALLY - if anyone has instructions/directions on how to install the keyless entry option can you please post them to this site.
You can buy it at....(scroll down a little)
http://www.handa-accessories.com/elementelect.html
Here are the install directions....
http://www.handa-accessories.com/element/elementkeyless.pdf
Thanks,
-mike-
I don't know when the test is scheduled but the E is based on the Civic and CRV and both the Civic and CRV are the safest in their class.
I suspect the E will match the CRV's safety. It will have less 5 mph damage cost. It may not be as safe during a side impact due to the suicide doors. Although Hondas focus has been safety, safety, safety. Despite the E's higher center gravity it will probably get the same rollover as the CRV because the E is wider.
As to philly2002's quandry over whether to by the Audi or Element, I think you should go for the Element, save the extra $10k the Audi will undoubetdly cost and consider the resale value of Honda vs. Audi. I shopped the Audi (as well as ML320, BMW X5, Explorer, Land Rover and some others to compare to the Element) and although more refined, the ultimate basis for your decision should be your intended use of the vehicle.
As I noted in a prior message mis-posted as a new discussion group, the Element (any maybe all Honda's) is pre-packaged such that options are few and far between - the model we chose (4WD EX) came with everything we needed and fortunately the dealer didn't have any of the two-dozen or so accessories in stock to inflate the price. Try to by an Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan etc. without having to add $5k to $10k to the "base" price to get a car you can live with. Now, I must add, I did order about $800 in accessories after I purchased the Element but that was my decision and not the dealer trying to increase its profit.
Finally, on a very nit-picky note which will certainly not impact anyone's decision whether to by an Element, I just had the car washed for the first time (after a snow storm with lots of road salt) and noticed that salt accumulates in many areas (under door handles, mirrors, rear glass between B and C pillars) and when washed the salt "leaks" from these areas which requires a little extra cleaning after the car is washed. I mention this only because I read an article some time ago about the most car wash friendly vehicles as voted by employees at car washes.
FINALLY - if anyone has instructions/directions on how to install the keyless entry option can you please post them to this site.
There appears to be a boatload of installation instructions at the following URL:
http://www.collegehillshonda.com/instructions/03element/keyless.pdf
The cloth seats repel wetness and dirt and debris. I just used a damp brush to clean them. The floor just sweeps out and mud and crud wipe out easily. I was able to spruce up the interior in about 20 minutes yesterday. I have none of that "new car" paranoia about getting it messed up. In fact, it's just the opposite. A very inspiring vehicle with a very versatile interior. An easy keeper if ever there was one.
I just downloaded a list of potential Audi and Honda dealers in the Philly area and plan to inquire about stock so that I can get test driving some of these vehicles.
BTW, I currently drive a 1999 Toyota 4-Runner SR5. Its a beauty to say the least, but in all honesty it is my third sport-ute in a row. I'm a little SUV'd out and on top of it all---I'm really tired of contributing to the Oil mongers overseas. Enough is enough with the spoonfeeding of american dollars spent on gas guzzlers such as mid to full size SUV's. Oh yeah, the Hummer too. I hope there are some people out there who agree with me on this one.
So back to the basics. I do a lot of mountain biking in the summer and a small amount of snowboarding in the winter. The Audi is certainly justifiable in either catagory as well as the Element. With such a high resale value, the Toyota will certainly come in handy during the financial part of all this negotiating between buying and selling.
Detroit, MI 01/06/2003 --
Interior
Front bench seating with driver-side bolsters
2 Flip-down seat pods in rear cargo area (jump seat style)
Rear cargo area with hard shell plastic base and aluminum rails
Mobile Entertainment System
On board personal computer with 17-inch LCD screen and inputs for musical instruments and mixing
42-inch Fujitsu Plasmavision screen (folds down from the center of roof and displays out the back)
800-watt Eclipse by Fujitsu Ten audio system with a rear-mounted CD/DVD head unit, three amplifiers, 11 speakers (two 2-inch tweeters, six 5.25-inch mid-range speakers, one 6.5-inch subwoofer, two 10-inch subwoofers)
Front Sony CD/DVD head unit with flip-down display (WX-7700MDX)
Exterior
Panel-side styling
Aerodynamic underbody kit
Rear cargo doors
Passenger side cargo doors
Powertrain
190-horsepower 2.4-liter i-VTEC 4-cylinder engine
6-speed manual transmission
Unit body construction
101.4-inch wheelbase
Low-profile control-link MacPherson strut front suspension
Low-profile compact double wishbone rear suspension
19-inch alloy wheels
245/50 R19 BFGoodrich Proto T/A tires
6-speed manual transmission
As we discussed before its just the European Accord engine. The really hot 2.4L is the new Acura TSX with 200 hp. This is really agonizing to see that this is the real powerplant for the Element. Too bad I think we will never see it in an American Honda. It would be due for the Acura RDX and when is that 1,2,3 years from now? And being Acura it won't be cheap. I wonder what the gas mileage would be?
IMHO the RDX should have a B-pillar. After all you can't get rid of the front seats. They would always get in the way of side loading. The suicide doors could still be there. You could have full size suicide doors that can open and close independently of each other. You can have an electronic locking system that prevents the rear doors from opening when the Element is in motion. You have a place to hide the front seat belts. You lighten the car and get back your payload rating. You have enough structure to have both a front and rear sunroof. The car could be longer with bigger capacity. The A-pillar gets thinner for better visibility. Years from now would anyone really miss not having a B-pillar?
Honda Element Studio E (Edmunds Detroit Show coverage).
Steve, Host
Sounds good to me. Folks have to do enough explaining about the vehicle as it is without going into the history of the name....;-)
- Mark