Honda Element

tpat3 · January 2003

might fit, but even if it does will you be over the 675 lb. weight limit?

gatorgreg · January 2003

Click HERE to see video of press conference from NAIAS.

markjenn · January 2003

It would probably be a trail bike, so < 300-lb, but I take it there is a 675-lb cargo weight limit?

- Mark

ssender1 · January 2003

Bought the Element without telling my wife (not such a big mistake - I've done the same thing with our last two cars without much retribution). She knew I went to the dealer to look at and test drive the Element Her initial response after seeing the sales brochure was that she thought it is ugly. Well, after having the car for a week I can't get her to out of it! She made me take two child car seats out of our Volvo S80 and put them in the Element. Seems it makes a great child transport vehicle and the seats which fold flat are great for diaper changing. I don't like the Volvo so I'm driving my '76 TR6.

Has anyone else had a problem ordering accessories for the Element from hondacuraworld.com? I placed an order on 1/1/03 and have yet to receive any response. I'm sure some of the parts are not in stock but you would expect them to provide status info.

varmint · January 2003

Ssender - A '76 TR6, huh. Were you expecting sympathy or something?

I would expect the table in the back to serve as a diaper changing station, but I guess that would be covered with other assorted baby gear and difficult to remove.

HondaSUV.com has a marketplace feature that is hooked up to several on-line vendors. You might try them, but make sure you get cancellation confirmation before ordering from another vendor.

ssender1 · January 2003

Oh if you only knew how reliable the TR6 is - owned since '94, 30k miles when bought, more reliable than my Z3 and S80, driven 5k miles per year, parts readily available and inexpensive. I've probably spent less than $1000 over the past 8 years for routine maintenance. Am I lucky or what?

The diaper changing area is actually the fold flat front seat(s) - they are waterproof after all.

I reached hondacuraworld.com and most part are "in the mail"

By the way, just received the February edition of Car and Driver and there is a very favorable multipage article about the Element. The article begins: "Have you ever wondered what would happen if an automaker morphed a Hummer H2 and a Mini Cooper?" "The Verdict: HIGHS: Cargo-van flexibility, SUV convenience, dormitory capability, sports compact performance." (the article actually notes that the Element TIED the last BMW 330i they tested in skidpad performance of 0.78g) LOWS: Refrigerator styling, Rubbermaid interior, problematic side doors (they say problematic because a front seat driver/passenger has to undo his or her seat belt to allow entry to the rear seats - give me a break....) THE VERDICT: Honda know-how plus a marketing impetus equals a funky, weird and EXCELLENT HONDA."

varmint · January 2003

I'd love a TR6, though I prefer the look of the big Healeys. Just too expensive for me.

gatorgreg · January 2003

Since some folks have been posting the urls of on-line accessory dealers above, I thought this list I compiled back when I was shopping for a 2nd gen CR-V cargo cover might come in handy for others who suffer from accessoritis like me

While I was shopping, I took down the price for the cargo cover at every on-line accessory dealer I've ever heard of, although there are undoubtedly more (please add to my list if you can). I originally posted this list on another forum back on 11/30/02, and the prices were current as of that date - however they might certainly have changed by now. Some of the prices included free shipping, but some did not, so be sure to check that when making your own comparisons. I only bothered to figure out the shipping cost on the first one listed below since they had the lowest price - at least until shipping was added that is. Disclaimer: One of the sites (it's probably better that I not say which one, although I'm sure many of you know which one it is) pays me an advertising fee to place their banner ad on one of my websites. I have no affiliation with any of the other sites.

4hondaparts.com $128.62 (plus $12.99 shipping)
hondacuraworld.com $130.80
handa-accessories.com $130.80
discount-hondaparts.com $130.80
partscheap.com $130.80
hparts.com $134.07
collegehillshonda.com $136.25
fairhondapartsforyou.com $141.70
hondaparts4you.com $141.70
hondasuv.com aka drivah.com $144.95
honda-parts.net $147.15
stuff4hondas.com $179.00
hondaautomotiveparts.com $179.18

jamesshelby · January 2003

I've been looking for an EX FWD 5sp in the Bay Area, but haven't been able to find one anywhere. Does anyone know if they have been released yet? I'm eager to test one.
Jim

bigdaddycoats · January 2003

a EX 4WD with auto today and I must say it felt pretty slow. Look forward to driving a EX fwd with manual. C&D got a 8.7sec 0-60 - pretty good.

ssender1 · January 2003

Having owned an EX 4WD automatic for the past week or so, I can confirm that it is not going to set any land speed records and I would estimate that its 0-60 time in the mid to high 9's. It handles terifically and as I noted in a prior post matches a BMW 330i on the skidpad (0.78g as I recall)

elemint · January 2003

Sante Fe is considered midsize? Did not know that. My friend has on and it is the opitome of 'ok'. Never any problems, but it sure is boring, and slow. My other friend has a freelander. Talk about a lemon! they payed 30k for a mini suv and have had nothing but problems. Nice riding suv but no room and over rated. Why there are so many small suvs that basically all have the same "unfunctionality" (no utility)is bizare.

dindak · January 2003

I was hoping it was not as ugly as in the pictures. It was worse than I thought. It was parked next to a CRV and there is just no comparison. Given the utility advantage of this thing is mostly just some extra room to carry stuff, I'd have to go with a CR-V if I was buying a Honda.

Glad you guys are enjoying what you have bought.

iinsic · January 2003

I'm not even looking for a vehicle, but I may have to consider this thing. The body panels look cool, but I would never call them cladding as they are flush with the metal panels. One question I have is whether you can fit a 4X8 sheet of plywood or drywall flat (or relatively flat) on the floor of the vehicle?

ssender1 · January 2003

Does it have to fit into the cargo area in one piece? Kidding aside, the answer is no, it will not lay flat but should fit on an angle if both rear seats are removed (may fit too if rear seats are fully reclined) and rear doors are open. It's about 6 feet from front seat back to rear hatch.

anonymousposts · January 2003

If they make a souped up version of this thing with real cloth seats and carpet along with a slightly more tuned engine (think Element SI) I would buy one in a heartbeat. Oh yeah, they would also need to move the sunroof over the front seats instead of the rear area.

ssender1 · January 2003

Does anyone know if it would be possible to put a sunroof up front (smaller than the one in back and an aftermarket pop-up variety) or is there a structural issue because the B-pillar is not fixed but is instead built into the movable rear "suicide" door???

anonymousposts · January 2003

I generally don't like aftermarket sunroofs for appearance reasons but if they can put one in a Mustang they should be able to put one in the Element.

ssender1 · January 2003

After posting my question re: putting a sunroof up front, I looked at the interior area above the front seats and noticed that the overhead storage area (which I think is standard on the EX and not available on the DX) and dome lights (there are 3, two in the storage area and one behind the front seats) would pretty much eliminate the ability to install a sunroof without much modification or the sunroof would have to be very narrow.

diploid · January 2003

And I think you are correct with the structural integrity assumption.

moonkat · January 2003

Honda announces smaller Acura SUV...
http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030109/1736000768_1.html

Some speculate it is last years RDX...
http://www.autointell.com/asian_companies/honda_motor/acura-rdx/acura-rdx-concept-2002.htm

I am hopeful it is a performance E. After all Honda already has the souped up 2.4L motor in the TSX...200 hp.....
http://www.hondanews.com/Forms/acura/TSX/seetext?2003010558244

ropedart · January 2003

Should we start an Acura RDX forum now

I wouldn't be surprised if development is deep underway and ready for tooling. 2 years away max? Where are Acura's made anyway?
Speculation is also that a light pickup truck is being based on this platform.
Hybrids will are getting hot as well.

diploid · January 2003

The pickup truck speculation has been going on for a while. I wouldn't hold my breath.

I don't know how an Acura version of the Element might sell. When I read that report, I assumed it would be a rebadged CR-V.

tidester · January 2003

You might check out Moonroofs & Sunroofs: Which are better, factory or aftermarket? though it's not a real active discussion.

tidester, host

ropedart · January 2003

I think it will be combo of CRV and Element features. The hint that it has to be youthful so leaning towards Element features. It has to be swoopier. How do you streamline a box? The hint may come from the Kia Slice concept. Raked windshield?
We now know the Element has excellent chassis dynamics. With 200 hp and a manual tranny it would just rock!
Of course one could look at the Lexus and Infiniti lines and guess what Honda wants to compete against. But Honda usually wants to go its own way. They are now saying why bother doing a metoo car in a crowded market.

You can bet it will not have a door mounted tire. And the CRV is becoming to be perceived as a "chick" car. Sorry

raychuang00 · January 2003

In my opinion, the Element isn't going to sell well with the current I-4 2.4-liter engine. The reason is simple: the engine is too underpowered for this vehicle, especially with AWD and four-speed automatic.

What the Element really needs is a more powerful in the 200 bhp range. How to do it? Simple--an all-new inline-5 2.6-liter engine designed specifically for transverse installation in the engine bay. Fitted with an i-VTEC valvetrain and balance shafts to smooth out the engine harmonics, such a new engine will be tuned to 195-200 bhp but with a wide torque curve but would have fuel mileage only slightly less than the 2.4-liter I-4 engine now installed.

I think such an engine could cut as much as 1.5 seconds off the 0-60 time, for starters.

beer47 · January 2003

The Element may be a little slow but is 0-60 really important? If you want to go fast, get a motorcycle! or go see Kenny Bernstein in the Budweiser King. Now, I have to go out and test drive one of these things to see if it is peppy enough for real world (merging and passing). Lastly, does anyone really buy a stock Honda for 1/4 mile drag racing or 0-60 times? I thought people bought because they are reliable and a value. Maybe I'm just getting old!

moonkat · January 2003

ropedart:
My perceptions exactly except I think the Acura version could be very close to the boxy E. Just paint the quarter panels & vehicle as in the Studio E (still need windows though):
http://hondanews.com/forms/events/*ws4d-db-query-Show.ws4d?*ws4d-db-query-Show***003919***-wieck_media***%20-***events(directory)***.ws4d?events/results(r)_JPG.html,
add those 17 or 18 inch wheels and low profile tires, of course the TSX 200 hp 2.4L motor, 5spd sportshift auto and all those DIOs like remote door locks, theft deterrent system, even better sound system, and Navi....price point between RSX/TSX and Pilot..!?....and seat 5 (i.e. have seat belts for five)....
Then even I would be looking at Acura.

moonkat · January 2003

http://www.edmunds.com/new/index.html

The comparo option is improved and interesting.

civicw · January 2003

Was at the San Jose Auto Show yesterday, and the Element was hands down the most popular attraction among 400 cars, as I saw it. The demographics were all over the place.

I doubt that most people realize what a huge hassle it is for everyone including the driver for entry/exit of rear seat passengers, unless the passenger is a very small child, or a dog (or anyone who will not be independently getting in/out of the car). Tight parking spaces will only add to the aggravation of the suicide doors. But it will be fine for those drivers who rarely have more than one passenger.

ropedart · January 2003

The power is described as adequate. For daily commuting with a single driver (90% of the time) it will be OK. It depends on how jaded or greedy you want to be. Honda never gives away free power. The answer is simple: fuel mileage and CAFE credits. Anyone can put big motors in but they eat gas and people stop buying. Pony cars anyone?

The Element is a Honda, selling next to the CRV and built in the Ohio plant. Those 3 things determined the engine. The Acura is free to move onto other things.

The Element is a low volume fashion car that can take risks. It will also be the father of many new cars. It must have been embarrassing for those manufactures at NAIAS with the Ford U, KIA Slice, Toyota FJ, BMW thing,etc with those youth oriented lifestyle vehicles in concept form only. Honda has one for sale, not perfect, but says they are 3 years ahead of everyone else. And learned something.

Small things in the Element you will see in new cars:
MP3 jacks,
FXC seat material (perfect family van material)
Xenoy bumpers

vadp · January 2003

Youth oriented lifestyle vehicle have many forms and shapes.
Honda went ahead with the Element. It is radical and I wish it to succeed.
If it does then other manufacturers will introduce their own versions.
If it doesn't, then it won't be too costly for Honda to reduce the volumes or switch to some other models, since it can recoup the platform investment with its similar CR-V.
BTW, this summer Toyota is releasing a similarly shaped but much smaller xB under the Scion brand.
It will be interesting to see how popular it will become with the target demographics.

aquaswimmer · January 2003

Now that some of you have actually purchased Elements... (I'm still waiting for any Los Angeles area dealer to receive a silver or shoreline 2wd EX 5spd before I snatch it up, so far no dice)

How much did you pay for it?

I'm curious to find out if people have been able to find reasonable deals on Elements..

The only specific numbers I've been quoted on an Element were from a very nice and surprisingly honest dealer named Don from Goudy Honda, the 2nd largest Honda dealership in the world in Alhambra (east los angeles). He quoted me $500 above msrp and 10% over dealer cost on accessories.

Is this a good deal? Has anyone found better?
Also have any dealers been reasonable on accessories?

I know we can order the accessories from a number of sites that I have learned about here but it's so convenient to have the dealer put all that stuff on.

I think the one drag about the Element is that it takes a lot of accessories to get the car you want and the dealers I have seen are charging outrageous prices for them

I mean it's practically comedy. $275 for a chrome exhaust tip that I've seen on the internet for $30 to $45? Ha, ha!

I think I saw a roofrack for $900 at one dealership. The DX at my local dealership that I've test driven 3 times (can you tell i'm a little rabid to get my hands on one?) has a sticker that started at 16k but it's up to 28k and it does not have that many accessories on it. It's ludicrous.

Thanks for any info and for you lucky few, enjoy your Elements! Hopefully I'll join you soon.

ssender1 · January 2003

I just installed the keyless entry option [$106 - all prices quoted are from hondacuraworld.com and note only one letter "a" in middle], mudguards [$59], leather steering wheel cover[$47] and carpeted floor mat [$106] retaining brackets [only for front one piece mat - the rear carpeted mat is also only one piece but has no brackets]. Bought them for 40% under list. Waiting for the chrome exhaust tip finisher [$42 and can't believe a dealer would charge $275 for this part] and driver's side armrest with storage [$90].

The keyless entry takes 5 minutes to install. Hint - the mounting bracket and 5 point connection are to the left of the steering wheel not to the right where the fuse box and many other wires are. Instructions are available on a prior post

The mud/splashguards take less than 5 minutes each. You will need an s-shaped phillips screwdriver to avoid having to take the wheels/tires off. The front floormat retaining brackets take 10 minutes to install.

The steering wheel cover takes about 45 minutes. Hint - don't double up the waxed thread and be sure to have the cover perfectly lined up with the spokes and pull the thread very very tight. You will feel great empathy for Haitian men and women who assemble base balls after you finish this job!

As to pricing, we paid list for our EX 4WD auto, $21,310 including delivery, and got 3.49% 60 month financing - the financing offer ended 12/31/02 and was only for in-stock vehicles. We found one in stock at Ed Napleton Honda, Oak Lawn IL. I'm sure dealers will price gouge by adding accessories which can be purchased inexpensively on-line. Anyone with more than a little common sense should be able to install accessories. We probably were lucky that few accessories were available when we purchased our car.

doct · January 2003

Drove a blue Ex 4WD
i live in northern new england
Impressions: Drove well in the snow and partial snow covered roads, ggod on packed snow could not get it to slide..abs reponded well.. could not find any ice...felt that the 4wd is pretty good system.

felt it was slightly underpowered and slighty sluggish on 0-60

thought the fit and finish was alot nicer that my ford ranger

felt tight ...good on sharp turns.. not real body roll

do not like to step over the high lower door jam,like a jeep wrangler and the wash out floor material was extremely slick with snow on it. I would put in MacNeil type rubber floor mats over it.

seats where confortable would definately get the fold down arm rest for both front seats

dash and windshield reminded me of the new beetle

felt confortable there where no huge blind spots even with the seats folded to the side..good sized rearview mirrors

inside size was impressively large..would personally take out the rear seats

fold down hatch back at a good sitting height

stereo sound is quite good

blue interior is quite pleasant

i would get the orange

no one new when 5 speed awd or side airbags will be coming

do not think that this is the surf/snowboard rig that they are trying to sell...i would agree with the dog owners, garden shop, no kids crowd that this is their small suv

the dealer had 6 E's comming in and only one had a 500 dollar hold on it. I do not think this is going to be a huge seller in a area where there are alot of demographic young male outdoorsy type.

a 4wd drve pick up with a cap or hard tonneau cover may be as good (poor MPG)or
for a little more money i would try to find a certified used volvo v70xc awd..pretty good certified used warrantee, good awd and alot of cargo space..add a roof rack..not as cool but practical, or as most of the 20 -30 crowd that i know, a E36 BMW 3 series and tune it..oh well

overall i am disappointed.. i was really looking forward to something new and different...but hope it works out for honda and every one who gets one

peace

anonymousposts · January 2003

A 99 V70 AWD in great condition with low mileage will run you at least $19,500 and that's probably if you find a desperate or motivated private owner. A 3-series in great condition with low miles is going to also be alot more than the $22,000 price of a loaded EX 4WD Element. E36 BMW's can be had with a 140HP 1.8L engine .. don't think that's really gonna be significantly faster than an Element with the same transmission choice. And the 3-series is far less practical or useful. A $16,000-$22,000 truck won't have the interior space of the Element nor handle as well since the E has a fully independent rear suspension. Right now the Element is in a class by itself.

It's hard to say what's a better choice because the other choices won't offer the exact same features as the Element. I think the closest you could come would be a minivan. Not too many 20 year olds will go for a minivan but a few will probably go for the Element.

araitn · January 2003

Aquaswimmer: We paid msrp of $21,310, including delivery, for our green EX 4WD. We purchased a few accessories and got what we thought was a decent price.

Mileage results so far:

1st tank - 25 mpg (mostly highway)
2nd tank - 22 mpg (mix of city, hwy, and snow)

As stated by DOCT above, traction in the snow is very good.

I don't understand all the negative talk about engine power and acceleration. I find the Element to have more than adequate power for everyday driving.

My wife absolutely loves her Element. She especially likes all of the attention she gets from the people gawking at her vehicle as she drives by.

bowke28 · January 2003

i drove our 1st 5-speed today...WOW!!!

very peppy, and much more responsive than the auto. the auto is nicely adequate.

unfortunately, you cant get a 5-speed with AWD.

gatorgreg · January 2003

Hey themamala, according to the brochure, "...the Element is expected to attain the federal government's highest rank for front-and side-impact protection in upcoming tests". Honda's optimistic crash test predictions have been very accurate lately (2nd gen CR-V, Pilot, etc.), due in part to their excellent in-house crash test facility which has gotten a lot of praise lately in the press. Therefore I'd say it's a good bet that the Element will be a very safe vehicle. As for the lack of conventional B pillars, according to the brochure once again, "equally strong vertical beams are formed when the reinforced side cargo doors are closed and connect with the Element's reinforced frame, side sills, and roof."

jamesshelby · January 2003

Hey does anyone know what percentage Honda is charging these days? They offered me 3.34 until 12/31/02 like the previous poster. What is the going rate nowadays? Thanks. (Still looking to try out a 5sp EX fwd...)

Jim

wpsica · January 2003

Here's a few thoughts from my recent test drive of a 4WD DX Auto:

Adequate power - won't win any drag races put had enough "oomph" to pass on the freeway

Interesting, to say the least, styling - Could see the other drivers staring as we/they passed. Had one 20-something at a red light say how cool it looked!

Versatility - almost goes without saying. Had myself, a friend and the salesman and we tried several different arrangements. The passengers in back really like the high stadium seating.

Practicality - I would use it mostly for myself and my dogs so the wipe clean floor and seats would be a welcome addition. The clamshell hatch makes loading and unloading a breeze.

Some of my dislikes:

- Can't get a 4WD Manual until at least June

- Dealer installed options really seems to jack the price up

- I could see the cargo doors being a bit of a problem with passengers or in tight parking spaces

Overall impression:

I think Honda has a winner on their hands. While the Element tries, but fails, to be all things, it comes pretty darn close. Now if I can just get over my first model year jitters

bigdaddycoats · January 2003

was drawing a lot of attention at the auto show today. Many people of all ages checking it out.

anonymousposts · January 2003

Carsdirect.com wants $1500 OVER MSRP. The Element is a nice deal at invoice or even MSRP but at more than MSRP they are going to kill it. I know Honda was stressing to it's dealers that there was to be NO hard-selling or dealer gouging. Sad to see that the dealers are ignoring Honda's advice. Let's just hope the Element doesn't end up like the 02 SI. I love my SI but I would've never paid MSRP + for it.

ssender1 · January 2003

In response to post 1626 above, just saw an ad in today's Chicago Tribune for Honda offering 4.9% for 60 months for all vehicles. Ad did not say if vehicles have to be in stock (very few Element's are in stock).

markjenn · January 2003

I don't think Honda has done much to pressure the dealers to cap prices at MSRP. In my metro area (Seattle) every car on every lot, whether it is the hottest Pilot or S2000, or the lowliest last-generation Passport, has an "over MSRP" sticker. The dealers are very upfront about it - they will negotiate, but they are very clear that MSRP is not going to cut it for many cars on their lot because there is somebody behind you that is willing to pay.

In shopping for a CR-V six months ago, a relatively mature product, I was amazed that some dealers wanted $500 over and had no issue with me walking off the lot, despite my indicating that I was happy to make a deal today for very near MSRP. (I finally found a dealer willing to go $800 under.) They're in the business every day and they know where the market is.

I'm a believer in free markets, and if I'm allowed to offer less than MSRP, then it only seems fair that they can be allowed to offer over MSRP. So this doesn't bother me particularly as long as the dealers play the game honestly. I've never felt a need to be first on the block anyway - you always pay more for a car with more bugs. Dec or so of the 2nd year of production in a new platform cycle always seems like the right time to get a new car - the bugs are out, the dealers have a few on the lot and will deal, thansgiving to xmas it a very slow time for them, and you get a solid 4-6 years of driving in before they car is made obsolete by the new model.

With the Element, I also want to also see how the car "wears" with time. Is it going to be a keeper or are we looking at something that is the new VW Thing? I think Honda is onto a new market here (and it isn't the "college dorm room on wheels" market they think it is either - its not sporty enough for Gen Y), but it needs to ripen on the vine for a year in my eyes.

Off-subject, but I loved the way C&D driver described it: the illegitimate offspring of a Hummer H2 and Mini Cooper. Describes the car perfectly.

- Mark

jefyou · January 2003

After looking at the factory rack and baggage tray option at Honda I began to consider other options. The Honda dealer tells me that the Element roof rack can hold about a 130 lbs. I have seen other specs listing it at 77 lbs. I need a basket or a good size solid shell with about 13 cu. ft. There are a ton of them in the aftermarket but I haven't used them before. Any suggestions?

ssender1 · January 2003

We bought an Element on 12/31/02. Went to two dealers (Fletcher Jones in downtown Chicago and Napleton in Oak Lawn IL), one of whom did not have a car available for sale (was given build dates of late January 03 with delivery early Feb). Neither of the dealers was asking over sticker nor did any try to push aftermarket accessories. Someone in a much earlier post stated than Honda must have "schooled" its salespeople to be more fair and this may be true.

We tried to buy an Acura MDX about a year ago and ran into the old $3,000 over sticker dealer installed add ons game (paint protector, running boards etc.) Needless to say I didn't buy it.

raychuang00 · January 2003

From the posts I've seen since I posted my original suggestion for an inline-5 2.6-liter 200 bhp engine, it appears there is definite interest in putting in a more powerful engine in the Element.

I think besides the fact the I-5 engine would cure perhaps the Element's most glaring shortcoming, the new engine block I suggested could go into other Honda vehicles, which will justify the expense of developing such an engine. The CR-V SUV and the upcoming Latitude small van could definitely benefit from such an engine; a modified version of the same engine (rated at 220-225 bhp) could go into the Acura TSX and the more sporty variants of the JDM/European Accord.

I'm sure many of you will say "put the V-6 from the Accord" into the Element, CR-V, etc. I'm not sure if that is a good idea given the fact the width of the engine in transverse installation might not fit in the engine bay of the Element, CR-V, etc. Because my suggested I-5 engine will probably have the same width in transverse installation as the current I-4 2.4-liter engine, it should be fairly easy to put my suggested engine into the Element, CR-V, etc.

moparbad · January 2003

Element is a small passenger vehicle for on road use with some neat utility features. It will do 0-60 mph in less than 9 seconds.
Why does anyone "need" 200 HP? 7-8 seconds 0-60 mph is sport car territory. Element is not a sports car and 200 HP may be wanted but surely is not needed. The Element is fine with the engine it has.

moparbad · January 2003

0-60 less than 9 seconds. 100 mph plus top speed.

I'm so amazed that people are complaining about the HP on the Element. What do people plan to do with the Element with a bigger engine that they can not do with the current engine?

People are truly HP spoiled and speed crazy.

Honda Element

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