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The SS sedan and coupe with the 2.4 Ecotec come out this summer.
1)The steering on the Cobalt is tighter than the steering was in my Cavalier and it does seem to get tighter on the highway. One other thing I noticed with the steering is that when turning the wheels at very slow speed (backing out of a parking space, parallel parking, etc.) unlike most other cars, you really don't hear anything from the power steering (no whining, sounds). The handling is very good on the Cobalt, but to counter that the ride is not harsh. It kind of reminds me of a perfect blend of the previous Honda Civic's handling (with no go-kart like rough ride though) and a Toyota Corolla's current smooth ride. You will have no trouble in emergency handling, there is no floatiness in the handling of the Cobalt, the handling is tight.
2)The room inside the Cobalt is amazing! It honestly feels to me as though this car should be in the mid-size class (I also think this car may bite a bit into the new Malibu sales as it is nearly as roomy in the front although the Malibu has more room in the rear seats). There is just the right amount of extra space all around me and I am 6'1" and 275Lbs. so I am used to being a little cramped in the compact class, but not with this Cobalt. Room is definitely one of its best features.
3)I am convinced that GM makes one of the best automatic transmissions not only in terms of shift quality (shifts are barely perceivable) but in terms of getting the maximum power out of an engine with an AT and this car is fast. I wouldn't drive my own Cobalt like this, but let's just say that the rental left several rubber burns at stoplights!). This car is fully capable of burnouts.
Another thing about that (tough driving) is after many redline runs in the Cobalt I rented, when I would come to a stop the car was as refined as though I had just driven it like a Grandma (the RPM Needle was steady and the engine was smooth). Very reminiscent to me of the engine/engineering quality of my friend's Acura Integra GSR and some of the full-throttle driving (racing) we did with his VTEC Engine!
I call my new Cobalt my "Mini-Max", because that is exactly what it feels like to me, a smaller version of my wife's Nissan Maxima SE. Well-Engineered, Elegant, Fast and Luxurious.
Greg.
The deal is you can't send people to other message boards - posting what to google for in order to find another message board is, well, sending people, well you get the idea.
Maybe these pics are somewhere other than another message board?
If not, you're on your own.
It will be made in china, and may be sold in the USA, if its true this car is real hope for GM. It should be stiff competition for the corolla and it weakens the UAW.
I just wish those workers would see whats really hapenning here... they could all loose their jobs and it NOT GM's FAULT :mad:
We will see. Hey this seems odd, will this car take interest away from the Cobalt?
Reminder to all: You may not post links directly into other automotive message forums. See the Rules of the Road at the top of the page and/or the Membership Agreement on the left for the details.
BTW, the door armrests on the Cobalt will show wear and dirt quickly, IMHO.
loren
and Blue Magic Carpet Cleaner over the years. By the way, Blue Magic is an excellent product. Especially for automobile carpet cleaning purposes.
The Cobalt has some nice touches for a vehicle in its market segment. In fact, many aspects of the car are very well thought out. Another minor gripe about the interior is that the emergency/parking brake handle is located underneath the center armrest which has a storage compartment and corresponding lid. So in order to manipulate the emergency/parking brake, you have to first raise the center armrest. That's not exactly intelligent engineering, but several other things are pretty neat. Such as the plastic covers over the majority of the engine and battery. The engine oil dipstick and engine oil filler cap are isolated. You would have to be a complete, babbling idiot to end up saying that you can't seem to locate the engine oil dipstick or engine oil filler cap. The hood and trunk lid both use gas shock supports. It's nice that the hood doesn't use a prop rod. The trunk space is actually a lot better than you would think based upon the car's exterior appearance.
XM Satellite Radio sounds really good with the upgraded Pioneer stereo system.
Cabin is nice and quiet, and the vehicle has pretty good acceleration.
Overall, I think that GM could have a winner with the Cobalt if the introductory year gremlins aren't so severe that they scare off potential second year buyers. After having perused the vehicle and taken it for a test drive I have to give GM a lot of credit for their efforts pertaining to the Cobalt's design, engineering and manufacturing.
Ron M.
Ideally I'd like to get the coupe Cobalt, but generally coupe's are worse in the snow.
Loren
As it is now, I tend to have to bum my mother's Jeep from her on any kind of days when there's even an inch of snow on the ground, my little S-10 is just THAT bad in the slippery conditions. But I love the Chevy brand and I really wanted to try and stick with it.
As for the Subaru, way too pricey for my budget right now. I actually liked the look of the Baja's because of the crossover truck/SUV look, but again, way too pricey.
Thanks for the suggestions
Once the bugs are flattened, the Stang looks like a better $$$ value. Looks, V6, and RWD. And a farily good resale value.
Loren
Actually, a better question is why wouldn't you go for the Scion Tc with supercharger.
The Mustang is hot now, as was the PT Cruiser, Neon, and VW Bug, all of which are on a big decline. Mustang sales will cool off within a year.
Because of the high demand for new model Mustangs, and the over-manufacturing to fit demand, resale value will not be so good when time to sell or trade in.
The Mustang uses an old, unsophisticated Explorer V6 in the base model to power it and will not even come close to the performance of the supercharged 4-cylinder Cobalt coupe.
I have heard from Mustang owners that the new interiors are of poor quality materials. As far as the styling goes they did make a good effort at copying a 1960's model Mustang, but looks are in the eyes of the beholder and I think it looks ok, not great, not being a Mustang fan.
I will take the conservative style, fit, finish, mileage, and performance of a new Cobalt anyday.
..passenger cars through April:
1- Toyota Camry: ----------------------- 138,939 up 6%
2- Toyota Corolla: ----------------------- 115,994 up 13%
3- Honda Accord: ----------------------- 112,606 down 2%
4- Honda Civic: ---------------------------- 90,812 down 10%
5- Chevy Impala: -------------------------- 87,770 down 7%
6- Nissan Altima: ------------------------- 84,337 up 7%
7- Ford Taurus: ---------------------------- 72,377 down 25%
8- Ford Focus: ----------------------------- 64,916 down 2%
9- Chevy Malibu: --------------------------- 62,604 up 63%
10- Ford Mustang: ------------------------- 61,820 up 19%
11- Chevy Cobalt: -------------------------- 51,888
12- Chrysler 300: --------------------------- 49,089 up 235%
13- Chrysler PT Cruiser: ----------------- 41,509 down 4%
14- Dodge Neon: ---------------------------- 40,871 down
15- Chevy Classic: -------------------------- 40,115 up 5%
16- Hyundai Sonata: ------------------------ 38,931 up 27%
17- Nissan Sentra: -------------------------- 38,423 down 0.5%
18- Dodge Stratus: -------------------------- 38,342 up 7%
19- Hyundai Elantra: ------------------------ 38,106 up 13%
20- Toyota Prius: ----------------------------- 34,225 up 151%
Well indeed some do like the Cobalt. For those suffering through heavy snow country may want FWD. Looks like an American alternative car to the Civic, with more HP. Some are looking for such. For those looking for updated styling in a Civic, there appears to be a new one coming out this year. Last year to get the PT before they make the nose job on her. Sure, it make the front larger under the hood to work on the car, but it may lose some of its charm. The PT is truly unique. The gas mileage is not too good though. The GM gas do a pretty good job at getting the most out of a gallon of gas. The Cobalt is not going to get 44MPG like the Civic HX, but it does have more power. Cobalt will win every time in the HP for the buck against Civic. In the coupe model, I still don't understand the SS value in that there is so much out there in that price range. Looked up the stats on the Mustang V6 and the 0-60 is 6.9 seconds, 1/4 mile 15.3 gas mileage is 28 MPG --- Cobalt SS is 0-60 6.4, 1/4 mile 14.9 gas mileage is 29 MPG freeway. The HP and Torque is actually less, but Cobalt is lighter. Both are coupes, and are not meant to be family sedans. Historic resale goes in favor of the Ford. The Mustang for 2005 looks perhaps too retro, and it thus you tend to compare it directly to the '68 which has the advantage of chrome bumps that did not have to stick out like a fat lower lip. Other than that, the car looks pretty rich. I kinda like the pre-'99 look though. Looks like Mustang is getting fatter. The Cobalt is lighter and looks more agile. Most agile goes to the Celica, which can be driven like a bat out of hell on corners. As for truly new designs, the hat goes off to the designer of the New Beetle for a retro, yet truly modern design, the PT for a new class of cool car, the CTS for its edgy really new look, and the Chrysler 300 for going way out on a limb to change Americas sedan. Cobalt is good evolution of the Civic cloning. More HP, and it has a USA brand on her. I will always recall what Lee said, " You lead, follow, or get out of the way! " GM has the Corvette, CTS(+STS) and the Hummer for those trying to look macho. What other new car is there at GM, did I miss anything class leader and new? As far as a deal on a car, I give you that the Cobalt minus say $2,500 is a pretty fair deal dollar wise. You can always buy the cars used in a couple of years and really save. A guess at price on the G6 or a Cobalt in three years time is somewhere close to 50% off. With many more miles ahead for the used cars, the value is outstanding indeed. You save a heck of a lot over buying a Japan make used.
Meade
M(eade) Daffron
One other hot car in the sub-compact catagory is the Chevy Aveo. I have read and seen many good things about this car, and have driven it as well. This car in my opinion is the bargain of the decade. It is also the top selling compact in its class.
Resale value is mostly determined by rebates, incentatives, rental fleets, and realiabililty. Rental fleets are the worse culprit because they litterly flood the market with used cars at bargain prices.
I would really doubt a vehicle would lose 50% of its value in three-years, unless it was a car (like a Yugo) with known problems.
There's a 2005 model for sale at a local car lot with 20K miles on it, advertised for just under $14,000. Looks sharp too, I've seen it. Sticker price would have been around $21,000.
I wouldn't want to buy a used rental car, but cars coming off leases generally are in good shape and have a warranty left. Car Max used cars are known to be pretty good, or otherwise they wouldn't sell them.
Loren
The Aveo my be a toy car to you, but its not any more so than the one's from Kia, Hyundia, Suzuki, Ford, Toyota, to name a few. It's actually better built then most.
I can afford a great driving luxorious car like a Buick LaCrosse, Grand Prix, or even a CTS, which I have considered, but I am just to conservative to spend that kind of money. I never look at resale when purchasing a car because I buy what I like, and keep them a long time.
My 1992 S10 pickup is basically worth nothing, but gets very good mileage, is reliable, and is paid for. The Cobalt would be a great main driver, but I would have to get a loaded one. I think I could get out of a dealer on a $19,500 Cobalt for somewhere between $15-16,000, after nagotiation, rebate, GM card earnings, tax & title.
Loren
I had been thinking of going mid-size or bigger, but the Cobalt is a class best in crash testing, and is lighter than the Malibu making for better mileage.
How about using my saved money from a Cobalt purchase on a motorcycle?
I believe the comment stated above about fleet sales saturating the market is very true. I think the Cobalt will have moderately better resale due to the better quality of that car, but with all the rental Cobalt's I've seen around I doubt it will be significantly higher. I think the only hope for decent Cobalt resale values, if that's important to you, is with the SS. Little to no fleet sales, less volume produced, and it's a high end / specialized car.
Loren
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I believe production starts in June. They have 17" wheels, 2.4 Ecotec and sport suspension. I do not think the exterior will look like the SS Supercharged.
'Fascias, sport, front and rear, body-color, includes front halogen fog lamps"
SS Supercharged states -
"Fascias, sport, front and rear, body-color, includes front halogen fog lamps and extensions"
Appears that they are the same, except the SS sedan and coupe do not get the extensions.
Does this mean low profile tires, bent rims, added weight, added cost, and blown tires.
Ah the new fads are a big money maker. I am sure a tuned suspension and 15" wheels would be just fine. OK, to entertain those needed to fill the tire well look, maybe the 16". Unsprung weight is not a good thing. The car is not going to go faster, just run harder on the pavement. Just put some good Toyo Ts1 tires in 15" wheel size and ya got it! Or if handling is the game, double wishbone suspension all around and RWD. OK, too expensive, just go double wish bone on rear like the Celica.
Loren
1) Looks - which is purely subjective. 22" tires would be silly, as would 13" tires. I think 16 - 18" look good on most cars. Chevy seems to agree. The SS Supercharged has 18" tires. It gives the car a visual nudge in the direction of speed and style.
To your comment about filling in the wheel well of the vehicle - I doubt the outside diameter of the tire changes much when OEMs offer different sized tires for the same car. The wheel gets larger, the sidewall of the tire shrinks, and the outside diameter of the wheel stays the same. The wheel well gap remains unless the suspension is also modified. [EDIT] - I just checked the Cobalt website. The current options are 195/60-15 (24.2" dia.), 205/55-16 (24.9" dia.), and 215/45-18 (25.6" dia.). So I guess I lied about the overall diameter changing, though it still doesn't change much.
2) Performance - As the sidewall shrinks in size (as noted above) it also gains rigidity. This greatly improves the handling of the car. Instead of the tire rolling over on its side during hard cornering, the tread retains more contact with the road, which increases the tire's grip and reduces the body roll felt inside the car. It also provides better turn in response.
As you stated correctly, unsprung weight is bad. However, are 16" - 18" alloy wheels going to be heavier than 15" steel wheels? I doubt there's a significant difference.
I'm guessing your Miata tires are in the neighborhood of 195/50-15 (about 22.5" dia.). If you upgraded to 205/35-17 I think you would notice a big difference in the handling of your car, and the overall diameter of the wheel/tire combo would change by less than 1/32".
Well, I am too. I just purchased my sixth new Mazda since 1991.
It's a Mazda3S.
It has 17-inch wheels.
Also, from Edmunds' review on the 2005 Mazdaspeed Miata ...
"... the Mazdaspeed Miata offers several other tastefully integrated modifications. It has a lower sport-tuned suspension with gas-filled Bilstein shocks and 17-inch performance tires."
My 3 handles MUCH better than the 15-inch-wheel equipped 2000 Protege that it replaced.
:shades:
Meade