Buick LaCrosse

venus537 · June 2005

point taken. not that i would classify the maxima's interior as excellent but it's definitely better than the altima's interior. what i would classify as excellent would be the audi line.

alpha01 · June 2005

That makes no sense at all. The Avalon starts at $26.5K USD, and the LaCrosse, $23.8K. 10K? Are you from Canada? If so, please keep in mind that this is a US publication we're talking about, and the majority of sales of these vehicles are in the US. The tested LaCrosse was more expensive than the tested Avalon, and both featured strong DOHC engines. The two are dimensionally similar, the LaCrosse actually being a longer vehicle. Seems like comparo material to me.

The Camry is dull and should therefore have been tested for this comparo simply so that the overpriced LaCrosse be made to look good? (Note that a Camry SE V6 fully loaded would be $30K, including NAV and moonroof, which the tested LaCrosse, at $32K, had neither. It would have also likely been an equal in performance measures.)

You whats even funnier? I bet had the Lucerne been out, and been tested here instead, everyone would be bellyaching that the Lucerne really isnt an Avalon/300/Five Hundred competitor either.

I personally think this one was a great comparo, and Im glad both the Maxima and the LaCrosse (as well as Amanti) were in this test. (FWIW, its not just b/c the Avalon won. MT did a similarly good comparo, except it was only the Five Hundred, 300, LaCrosse CXS, and LAST GENERATION Avalon much earlier this year... the Avalon placed fourth. But guess what? Just as in this test and every other one I've seen, the LaCrosse finished BEHIND the 300 and Five Hundred. Personally, Id take a LaCrosse CXS over the Ford for its engine, but would choose the Ford over the CX and CXL variants).

~alpha

62vetteefp · June 2005

Maxima is an uplevel Altima. It is a bit sportier, has a few more features available and, most important, a bit more expensive!

62vetteefp · June 2005

Yes the 500 and 300 are excellent cars. Issue is can you drive the 300 or 500 with their looks? Before everyone screams the 300 is great looking, it is a bit over the top. The retro hitman look is not for everyone. The 500 goes the other way. It is very conservatively styled and will do well because it does not offend anyone. In the long run the 300 will start to lose sales. The 500 will continue to go up.

LaCrosse is a bit sportier than the 500 yet conservative. It will slowly pick up sales for about 4 years and then start to drop. Once prices are announced for '06 it should get an uptick in sales.

Lets hope that the new vehicles at GM Styling that the press recently saw will come out and do well. The fate of our country is in GM's hands.

jrosasmc · June 2005

I know this is a LaCrosse discussion but does anyone know when the LeSabre will end production? Is it this year or '06?

62vetteefp · June 2005

this year very soon. See the lucerne forum for more info.

verdi942 · June 2005

What did this one prove? Let's see.....the KIA's old tech w/lots of content at a real low price; I drove one as a rental and it reminded me of the '55 Dynaflow my dad drove. The Avalon seems to cover all the bases - power, economy, content, luxo-stuff, q-u-a-l-i-t-y, and, you can bet, the HIGHEST real-world price in this or any comparable group. In between are three EXCELLENT cars - the 300, the 500, and the LaCrosse. The 300 has the gangsta looks, the 500 wins on practicality, and the LaCrosse - well, call me biased, but, especially at today's real-world prices, I think its my winner. It drives like a MODERN Buick - smooth, progressive controls with just enough effort needed to keep things smooth 'n' fast. The suspension'll stick to most roads and keep you out of trouble - I don't know WHAT C&D had against it's tires. I don't care to spend Avalon $$$; the 300's a punch line to a joke I can't tell; and the 500's about two years away from the drivetrain/$$$ ratio it'd take to sell me. As for the Maxima, it's so 1999. Oh, and BTW, those C&D drivers must really leadfoot those economy runs to get such low results.

dispencer1 · June 2005

I lost a couple of thousand dollars when I dumped a brand new Solara convertible that everyone on Edmunds loved as well as every reviewer except CU which said it had convertible flex. Not only did it flex but you felt every pebble in the road. This is the "European Ride" I guess. You can have it. I drove the LaCrosse as well as the Avalon and Montego. The LaCrosse had a good ride, handled well, and if you get a CXL with options you can get it for around $23k delivered. Toyota dealers give you a thousand off on an Avalon and act like you are driving them to the poor house. I'm ordering an '06 LaCrosse and doubt that I'll have any maintenance problems for 100,000 miles. I always had great luck with Buicks and lousy luck with Fords. Toyotas are very dependable but cost a fortune to perform all the stupid dealer services. If I wanted to drive a sports car I'd buy a Ferrari -new or used. "Sport Sedans" in my experience equate to a rough bumpy ride. I like to sit in my '03 Deville, plump my fat behind on the leather seats, put the automatic air on 70, speed up to 75 and hit the cruise control. That's my kind of car and I could care less if Car & Driver, Motor Trend, CU, etc agrees with me.

vanman1 · June 2005

Sorry, they don't sell the stripper base Avalons XLs in Canada and $10K CDN = about $7500 US. They have still compared a top line LaCrosse with a 2nd / 4 tier mid level Avalon. Comparison is still not quite equitable from that stand point.

In reality (which is what should be used) LaCrosse competes with Camrys and Accords, not Avalons. This is why Camry should be included instead of Avalon.

jmw4 · June 2005

If the ratings of this comparison were looked at in detail, it would show the Lacrosse fared well in many of the performance and handling aspects of the test, but lost heavily on the last two "subjective ratings" of Fun to drive, and gotta have factor. These last two opinion based ratings were what placed it below all but the KIA. They also did not seem to put much emphasis on quiet, a feature I value and something the LaCrosse excels in. Having taken a long ride yesterday in a friend's 3 year old Mercede's E class, between the hard seats and the tire/road noise from the low profile sport tires, I couldn't wait to get back to the quiet and comfort of my CXS.

imidazol97 · June 2005

>did not seem to put much emphasis on quiet

I gotta get down to the dealer and drive a LaCrosse before vacation on Thursday. I have a feeling that some of the quiet techniques were already in our LeSabre 03. But my big complaint about the mags and their evaluations is they write so people will buy. Articles about quiet cars that perform well for the market don't sell. BMWs, Mustangs, etc., are what I see in the mags at my doctor's offices.

There's nothing exciting about the interior for the mags. They match interiors I see in Lexi when I park next to them and look in to see what the world thinks I'm missing with my Buicks. I looked at Avalons, Camrys, Accords. They look pretty much the same to me. My neighbor's 3 Acura RLs look a step up from my LeSabres and they cost a whole chunk more to buy and to maintain.

The mags are in business to sell mags. The day CarDriver or MotorTrend have headlines "Great interior design from Chev or Buick or Ford" will surprise me. Ain't gonna happen. Headlines for cars 99.9% of their readers can't afford get people to read/buy the mag.

62vetteefp · June 2005

"The day CarDriver or MotorTrend have headlines "Great interior design from Chev or Buick or Ford" will surprise me. Ain't gonna happen. Headlines for cars 99.9% of their readers can't afford get people to read/buy the mag."

I'm hoping we see them in the next few years. If you have read any local or short lead national news you would have read that GM put on a tour for the press at the Design Studio for vehicles coming out in the next few years. They are raving about how upscale the interiors look in even the cheapest cars. This is what Lutz is doing. It takes time to make changes. He forced changes on the LaCrosse when it was too late but could not go far enough on the whole car. The Solstice is the first he really put his hands on. the rest will follow.

62vetteefp · June 2005

"I have a feeling that some of the quiet techniques were already in our LeSabre 03."

No, there is a whole lot more in the LaCrosse than the 2000 designed LeSabre.

Make sure you listen to all types of noise input- wind, tire, powertrain, suspension and even door/glovebox/trunk lid/console closing. I hope you are impressed. I also hate to say this but take a note on how long the car has been sitting. In the year of build many more improvements have been made as they tune in the process at the plants and sources. It came out great but has gotten better.

vanman1 · June 2005

Dove home to see my parents this weekend about 300 kms away and I saw 12-15 Allures on my trip back and forth. A few of them may have been rentals but most were retail owned cars as they had dealer stickers on the back.

It will be interesting to see how sales fair vs. Regal / Century after a full year on the market. They seem to be selling well up here so far.

maku337 · June 2005

All manufacturer's continually improve their vehicles, if they want to stay in business. If you're considering two or three different vehicles at a dealership, always take the one with the highest VIN number. The last 6 digits of the VIN number are assigned sequentially when the car is built. So a car with a VIN ending in 206894 was built later that a car with the VIN ending in 205321, for instance. It's not a guarantee, but the later car is likely to have less problems than the earlier one.
By problems, I am considering small tweaks and changes that make the car better. Obviously, the options and general structure of the car remain the same. But an annoying little problem may have been fixed in the meantime.

vanman1 · June 2005

Great news on the crash tests

http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/19/pf/autos/safe_cars/index.htm

62vetteefp · June 2005

I guess I do not get it. Whats the good news? A Camry Solara got 5 stars? Seems like it would be better if a higher volume vdhicle got 5 stars.

62vetteefp · June 2005

OK, I think I found the data you were referring to somewhere else.

NEW FRONTAL CRASH TEST RESULTS FOR 8 CARS:
LARGE FAMILY & LUXURY CARS ARE GOOD; MOST EARN 'BEST PICK'

ARLINGTON, VA  A group of five large family cars and three large luxury cars earned top ratings of good in frontal crash tests recently conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. Among the family models that were tested  Buick LaCrosse, Chrysler 300, Ford Five Hundred, Kia Amanti, and Toyota Avalon  all but the Amanti earned the added designation of "best pick" in the frontal test (see attached ratings). This is the first time every model in a group of large family cars has earned the top rating.

40 mph frontal offset crash test into a deformable barrier

http://www.iihs.org/news_releases/2005/pr061905.htm

vanman1 · June 2005

May be the wrong link, sorry.

Thanx Vette

ward_cleaver · June 2005

We just picked up a new Buick LaCrosse yesterday.
We got a CX. The 3800 V6 is plenty of power for a sedan.
I've owned two LeSabre's and have been very satisfied with the 3800.
Being in my 40's I'm probably not your typical LeSabre owner, but I like them enough to have purchased two of them.

I planned on buying a 2005 LeSabre when we went to the dealership earlier this week. My wife however, took a liking to the LaCrosse.
What swayed my opinion to the LaCrosse was test driving the two vehicles.
Of course the LeSabre is smooth as glass cruising down the road.
But, the LaCrosse was quieter...by quite a margin.
Although both cars have the same engine, I could hear more engine noise in the cabin of the LeSabre.
I was also impressed by the fit and finish of the LaCrosse and the little "extras" they put into it (such as chrome door handles).

With the GM discount applied, the car was 20 thousand and some change...out the door.
That includes tax, license, etc...everything.

I'm very satisfied with this car and the price.

Regards,
-Ward

ward_cleaver · June 2005

[QUOTE]#630 of 1801 by theo2709 United States of America May 14, 2004 (9:38 pm)
I would take the 3.6L over the 3800 any day of the week, and not only because it is DOHC and it has more power. The 3800 has a heavy iron block, which makes a car feel nose-heavy and not balanced. [/QUOTE]

Conversely, I would take the tried and true 3800 over the new 3.6 any day of the week.

The "nose heavy" and "not balanced" feel that you speak of is based on subjective criteria on your part (and probably some bias)...rather than facts.

The fact of the matter is that the GM 3800 V6 coupled to GM's 4 speed automatic transmission is one of the best drive trains to ever come out of Detroit.

With its proven excellent reliability, smoothness and sufficient power for a sedan, there is no way I'd pass it up in favor of the new aluminum 3.6.

Regards,
-Ward

62vetteefp · June 2005

Glad to here it. You are the type of customer Buick is after. 40's, family and looking for a comfortable car with some premium touches.

vanman1 · June 2005

You will see the average age of Buick drivers continue to drop.

jesrf · June 2005

All,

we have a 2002 Saturn Vue that we want to trade in, we're considering leasing an 05 LaCross CSX or a Cadillac CTS, The Buick Dealer has offered us 12,200 on our trade in (which I think is quite good). I think a three year lease on an 06 CTS would be about $14900 or so(my dealer is out of 05's and doesn't know the firm lease prices yet ), and I'm waiting to hear back from the buick dealer. There's a lot of different things that I like about both Cars and really am not sure what to do here, the LaCrosse seemed to have a softer (more comfortable ride), both cars were pretty quick (the RWD CTS was faster though not much) but I';m in Michigan and FWD with stabilitrak and traction control would probably handle better in the snow. Did anyone else compare the two vehicles before buying? I'm really not certain here but right now am leaning toward the LaCrosse, any advice would be welcome....

thanks,

John

rwisem · June 2005

My wife and I tried a CTS and then a Lacrosse CXS for subsequent week-ends. We were trying to determine if the CTS was worth the extra money. I was surprised to find a couple of annoyances with the CTS. My left leg would press uncomfortably against a protrusion on the door and there was a noticible "machinery" noise coming from the transmission. The Lacrosse was quieter, more comfortable, and rode at least as well. The CTS may have been a little sharper in cornering, but in normal driving there is no difference to speak of.

We liked the interior of the Lacrosse better. I have not been a critic of the CTS interior, as some have, but it could be better, and apparently will be in the next version. This was also a factor in our decision. The 2007 CTS will be completely re-designed. We plan to keep this car for several years and this verson of the Lacrosse will look new longer than the current CTS.

rwisem · June 2005

I forgot to add comments about life with the Lacrosse so far. In nearly 6,000 miles, there have been no problems other than the brake recall. (the brakes never exhibited any anomalies).

A few weeks ago a fellow stopped me in the Home Depot parking lot to talk about the car and get a better look. This last week-end, I took it to a car wash in an upscale area where most of the vehicles going through are luxury cars BMW's, Acura, Lexus, Mercedes - and not the cheaper models, either. When I went to get in and drive away, the guy rubbing it down, who looked like the manager, a fellow in his late 30's commented on what a beautiful car this was - and an American one to boot. This may have been customer schmoozing, but I got the feeling he was sincere.

This is a super car.

fredvh · June 2005

Do you have the CX, CXL, or the other? If CX or CXL, what king of mpg are you getting?

vanman1 · June 2005

I think you would get the CTS if you want handling and styling and you would get a CXS if you want a little quieter more refined ride with a more understated look. Cadillac is a luxury mark and so you also pay for the name. At this point I am torn as to what I would buy. The 303 hp V8 Impala SS is coming in August which also looks interesting and lists for less than the CXS. After the loss of the Intrigue, the good times are coming back for GM sedans!

jesrf · June 2005

Vanman1 and rwisem,

thank you both for your input. Today I made the decision to go with the LaCrosse CXS. I personally preferred the styling of the CXS (more of a Euro look maybe?) to the CTS, and I'm not really much of a speedster, though I do find the handling of the CXS more than adequate. My wife and I are both in our late 30's and even our 13 year old daughter thought it was a good looking car as well....

I'll post in the "price paid" forum as well but, as reference, a fully loaded CXS (every available option except the block heater), sticker was 34+, we did a three year pre-pay lease, total out of pocket (after $1000) rebate was 13,360.52 which includes plate and transfer fees etc. We got $12,200 for our 2002 AWD V6 Saturn Vue as a trade (owed nothing on it), 264.59 from my GM Card and so my personal out of pocket cost was 864.59, we pick up on Thursday. I thought it was a great deal (especially as I hated that VUE). Any comments on what I paid.

One more comment that was another factor, the insurance on the CTS was about $140 more every six months than the insurance on the CXS.

dispencer1 · June 2005

I've driven them both and have ridden for extended periods in a friend's CTS around the Dallas Metroplex. The LaCrosse definately rides more comfortably and has a softer ride (at least the middle grade one does). The CTS feels more like a Mercedes -has a European "sport suspension" ride. The LaCrosse seems quieter. The CTS handles better. Neither have much rear seat room. It all depends what type of car you prefer to drive. The two are different. The CTS has a much better warranty (48 months 50,000 miles) and if you can find a low mileage one that is "Certified" you will get a 100,000 miles 6 year 0 deductible warranty on it. Cadillac dealers -at least the ones I deal with- bend over backward on warranty repairs and Cadillac supports them. Buick dealers around here don't.

vanman1 · June 2005

jesrf : Congrats on the new CXS. I am in my late 30s and a Buick is just fine with me also. I currently drive an Oldsmobile Intrigue (since I was 32) so clearly the age label put on these marques by some doesn't bother me. Sounds like a good deal.

dispencer : Warranty is much better on the Caddys but Buick has a great dealer reputation according to JD Power so obviously most dealers must be ok. Too bad about your area.

Kirstie_H · June 2005

A reporter is interested in speaking with people who have had their vehicle recalled in the first part of this year. If your vehicle has been the subject of a recall and you would like to speak with this reporter, please send your name and daytime phone number to Pam Krebs, Edmunds.com PR, at pkrebs@edmunds.com by Tuesday, July 5. Thank you.

62vetteefp · June 2005

GM took 8 0f 19 categories in the JD Powers reliabiliity study. Century was #1 in the premium midsize!!! as was LeSabre in its segment. LaCrosse should do just as well.

Ford took 5 and Toyota took 4.

Buick had 163 pph, Toyota 194, Lexus 139. Mercedes 283!!! Audi 312!!! Honda 201!!!

Industry average was 237

Go Buick!!!

Wall street Journal has a story

fredvh · June 2005

What quality is this? Is it for 3 year old vehicles?

imidazol97 · June 2005

Do you have a link to the study. When I browse jdpower.com I don't find it.

vanman1 · June 2005

Buick has always had the quality. It's having the cars that were attractive to buy which was the problem. LaCrosse and Lucerne are finally addressing this issue.

62vetteefp · June 2005

I read the WSJ but here is a link to another report.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2005/06/30/gm_ford_toyota_lead_dependability_surve- - y/

this is for 3 year old 2002 vehicles.

Just for grins here is last years.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0407/04/autos-198392.htm

62vetteefp · June 2005

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0506/30/B01-232784.htm

62vetteefp · July 2005

GM sales are up 41% over last year. Wow. Best sales since 86. Buick sales up 31%.

Lacrosse sold 10, 694 which works out to annual 128,000/yr.

Last year total Regal and Century was10,044 which was mostly fleet.

not bad but lets hope it gets better. Hope that some momentum continues after the employee pricing gets replaced.

Hummer sales up 200%. Total GM trucks up 68% over last June!

Just saw my first blue LaCrosse today- Very sharp

chicagodrive1 · July 2005

The top vehicle in the WSJ article was the Chevy Prizm... isn't that GM's copy of the Corolla? And they don't sell them anymore.

The Le Sabre and Century should be in the top spots... GM's only had a decade to perfect them. Don't know many people my age aching to buy a Le Sabre, but then I'm not over 40 and I know of other options exist (thanks to sites like Edmunds).

----- Side note: Did you know people still lease phones from their local phone company? This was common practice before ma bell was broken up, but for many 50 and over, probably don't realize their still paying a lease fee for the phone in their kitchen, which SBC in Illinois only charges every quarter - to further hide the fee.

imidazol97 · July 2005

>but then I'm not over 40

Strange to break up the stereotype...
But did you ever think that as people do add on some years past their 20s they decide to buy something durable and practical and buy LeSabres? The concept that only people over 76 purchase LeSabres is an old myth. I look around at those driving LeSabres and ParkAves and LaCrosse automobiles and I see a much younger collection than you.

So I will overlook having my own age group put down in your post just because I _chose_ to purchase a LeSabre again. I get great dependability, gas mileage, and have great room for adults and luggage on trips. I would think some others might want to respond to the constant picking.

imidazol97 · July 2005

>GM's only had a decade to perfect them

2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 for the platform for the current LeSabre. It's not been built for a decade: I count six years.

dispencer1 · July 2005

I don't think it is so much durability and practicality but the fact that the LeSabre is just about the perfect family car. It handles well ,especially the Limited with the touring suspension, gas mileage on the road is as good or better than many mid size cars, especially foreign ones, and it is a true six passenger car that will hold plenty of luggage. It is a great road car.
I bought my first new LeSabre in 1990. I turned in a two month old Mitsubishi Galant because the seat didn't go back far enough to really be comfortable on trips and it rode stiffly. Since then I've had a '94, '97. 2000, and 2002 Limited. All these cars except for the last one went well over 100,000 miles without any major problems. I now buy year old Devilles for the price of a new LeSabre and get all the attributes including highway gas mileage but the Cadillac is frankly a more luxurious car with a faster engine. The certified warranty is great too. I'm buying a new LaCrosse this winter to replace a 2001 Malibu. I'd get a Lucerne but I already have an '03 Deville. The LaCrosse shares many of the LeSabre attributes and is practically the same size. It is quieter than the present LeSabre, fancier inside, and has the same engine. I'm looking forward to it.

dispencer1 · July 2005

I'm considering a sunroof on a new LaCrosse CXL. Has anyone sat in or bought one? I'm trying to see if there is much less headroom with the sunroof. I'm 5'10" and don''t have any problem with the LaCrosse without a sunroof but can't find one to sit in with a sunroof at the local dealer.

robw64 · July 2005

I rented a LaCrosse while travelling in January of this year and it was equipped with a factory sunroof. I'm a tall driver (6'5") and was able to find a comfortable position without my hair brushing the headliner. I wouldn't anticipate a problem with headroom if you're less lanky than some of us!

dispencer1 · July 2005

Thanks very much. This makes me feel better!

chicagodrive1 · July 2005

Yeah, I was wrong. They've been building La Sabres since 59. So they've had more time. Edmunds: "only subtle styling changes were made" in 2000. So when was the major overhaul? Someone on this board obviously sells Buicks, maybe they know.

The only time I can see someone younger that 30 driving a Le Sabre, is if it belonged to Hertz and they're dying to return it.

If Buicks appealed to Gen-Y and Millenials, then why don't you see a bunch of Century's with "Fear This" decays or diaper-changing tables as spoilers? You don't because Buick is as appealing to young people as Ted Koppel.

Maybe there are those mid-life crisis buyers who always wanted to buy American and are now experimenting with the Lacrosse. Buick has a stigma of catering to the geriatric set, and changing that stereotype will take time. They may get it done right before the division is shutdown (ala Oldsmobile).

johnclineii · July 2005

Not every car has to appeal to Mr. and Mrs. Yuppie and their brethren and sistren.

You don't see the younguns driving Lexus 430's either.

So what?

You no like LeSabres or LaCrosses, don't buy them....

That's simple enough.

imidazol97 · July 2005

I won't feed the troll. Find out for yourself the changes in 2000. Serious response would only meet with more sarcasm.

1487 · July 2005

The current Lesabre has been out since the 2000 model year. Not a decade, and not since 1959. I would think you would understand that the name may have been the same but the current Lesabre has nothing to do with models built in the 50s or 60s.

Buick's quality is high and has been for some time. We all know the some cars on the list like the Century aren't made anymore, but that's because the list is based on cars sold THREE YEARS AGO. Besides, the Lacrosse is built on the same platform in the same factory as the Regal/Century so logic would dictate that it would be high quality.

Buick LaCrosse

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