Currently I would prefer the 3800. Until the new 3.6l prove to be reliable, and/or till GM will fix the almost unavoidable "infant illness". However, consumers always want more choice. I would like if the supercharged version of 3800 would be available, and am not interested at all in the bench seats; on the other hand, some people with bigger family wants to have a bench seats combined with the new engine...
Personally, I am thankful to more curious people, who like to test new technology. I will need a new car in 2.5 to 4 years only, and will have "free ride" on their experience, would it be positive or negative.
My point is, what does GM gain by withholding the combination of 6 seater and 3.6 liter? Does it save them money? There ARE going to be some people who need 6 seats but are more attracted to the 3.6 liter engine. I am one. The point made about engine availability may be a good one. Has anyone heard of the 3.6 eventually trickling down to the lower trim lines (CX and CXL) like the 3.5 did in the Intrigue?
I would take the 3.6L over the 3800 any day of the week, and not only because it is DOHC and it has more power. The 3800 has a heavy iron block, which makes a car feel nose-heavy and not balanced.
I do not have access to any rumor mills. Just a common sense: new engines are developed to replace old ones ultimately, not to supplement them forever.
I think there are some upcoming federal (U.S.) regulations (2007? 2008?) for which it would be expensive/difficult to adapt the 3800. Hence GM's plan to move to the 3.5/3.9 pushrods on the low end, and the 2.8/3.6 DOHC on the medium end (some cars that have blown 3800's, like the GTP, are rumored to get the 5.3L V8 in their next incarnation).
The new 3.6L will be used in alot of cars and SUVs and mini vans in the future. It was developed as a Global engine to be used in Europe, Australia, North and South America. It can be mounted transverse, inline, mid, and rear and can be adapted for front, rear, and 4 wheel drive vehicles. It can also be bored to deliver alot of power and has veriable valve timing. As far as the 3.8L engine goes, it's a great motor but is out of date by todays standards. I'm with Yurakm. I think the 3.6L will be standard in all the midsize GMs in a few years. It's lighter, delivers more horsepower and torque, and should be just as reliable as the 3.8L. Of course only time will tell but GM built his engine to be the best V6 in the world.
You can have the 3.4. I've suffered head gasket problems with this engine in my Silhouette and the engine is woefully underpowered for this size car. I guess this engine will be gone soon -can't come too soon to suit me. The 3.6 sounds nice.
I have a 3.4 and I havent had any problems, nor do I find it underpowered for the Alero. Of course in the year 2004 I would like to have more hp because all the midsize sedans are offering 200-260hp, but the engine is fine for my needs.
It would be fine for an Alero - probably would be OK for my Malibu, but it is not OK for a Silhouette/Montana/Venture . These cars are lots heavier than an Alero. I didn't have a problem till 84,000 miles, but the head gasket would have run about $1200 if I hadn't had an extended warranty. This one repair more than paid for the $800 Protection Plan.
I've always considered passing power in the 50-70 MPH range more important then low end pickup from a light. My Silhouette (3.4 engine) and my Malibu (3.1) lack passing power. My Deville (Northstar 275 HP) has no problem at all -neither do my friends V-6 Camrys. GM needs to get horsepower up to 220 and more or they will continue to be beat out by Japanese cars.
Somewhere else in GM site I saw 233 lb*ft, not 225 lb*ft. The numbers are not so different, and the both are way too low comparing to 280 lb*ft easy available from the predecessor of LaCrosse - the 8-year old Regal GS. GM substantially weakened the LaCrosse 3.6l engine comparing with the Cadillac version.
They weakened it because they didn't want to outdo Cadillac. Sort of like how they're reluctant to increase the warranty on the Aveo to the typical Korean 5/60 since Cadillac only has a 4/48 warranty on its models. Also the Regal GS achieved high numbers through Turbocharging the engine, while the 3.6 is not turbocharged. It'd be interesting to turbocharge the 3.6 though.
And they wonder why their market share is nowhere near what it once was? GM's competitors are the other auto companies. When GM thinks its own divisions are COMPETITION, it shoots itself in the foot.
I also think that GM detuned the 3.6l engine to not "dilute the Cadillac brand". As if they can drive those, who want a Regal GS power, to CTS. Well, I guess than they will drive more people out, e.g. to Nissan.
Concerning turbo/supercharging 3.6l: I would not do it at home nor at performance shop. The aftermarket mods are difficult, expensive, and would reduce reliability of engine and transmission. The cars supercharged at factory, e.g. Regal GS and GP GTP, have a lot of parts beefed up. In addition to heavy duty engine and heavy duty transaxle, they have: more powerful fuel pump, different fuel lines, different intake manifold, different software (PCM), etc., etc.
A stock blower is a different story. It is much easier to accomodate the necessary mods at factory. Plus GM can better engineer and test the design and to stay behind its products. GM simply somewhat better know its own cars, and have much more financial resources than small aftermarket companies.
I have read that currently GM is playing with double-turbocharged 3.6l engine. It produces 400 hp; this is deep in the Corvette territory. I have serious doubts, though, that the engine will see market at all, even more that it will be available with LaCrosse.
And so GM should not be terribly surprised when I, whose last three cars have been GM products, somewhat saddened by their decontenting and diluting products so as to move you up their line, buy a most honorable (in this case) F O R D.
Just wanted you guys to know that I am enjoying the 3.6L in the SRX. This things really moves out. But it should with a 3.73 rear gear and a 3.42 1st gear in the tranny.
Also I had both left bank camshafts replaced at 1300 miles. They were not machined properly and the cam followers were making some noise as the contacted the surface of the cam.
It is evidently an easy job to replace the cams. Unbolt them and put new one in. TYhey have a tool that ensures that the timing remains the same.
No metal shavings in the oil and all is well at 5500 miles.
The dealership had another SRX the week before with the same problem.
How much oil takes the 3.6l engine? More than 15 quarts? And what filter it uses?
Mobil 1 costs about $20 for 5 quart jig at Walmart. Pure One filter $6 at Pep Boys. Labor $12 or so at Chevy dealer, or about the same with coupon at Firestone. Total about $40 for Regal GS.
The Buick dealer who sold us the Regal changes oil for life for free, and throws a free car wash. However, I hate how they treated me, nor cannot stand waiting 2-3 hours at the dealership.
looking for Regal GS power yet can't afford to buy a Cadillac CTS or don't like it, will be heading to other dealers for other cars,like Nissan's Alitma 3.5 and Honda's Accord EXV6.
can't afford to buy a Cadillac CTS or don't like it
There is another argument against Cadillac: it is kind not modest to drive one, especially when most of colleagues do not. A wrong statement, like "I have more money, than you". Buick does not offend, though.
I would like to see a LeSabre sized Buick with RWD and a strong engine. Properly equipped, I might well be first in line....At least put AWD in it if not RWD...
I bought 6 qts. Mobil 1 @ Advance Auto for about $27(?) and the dealer provided the filter and charged me $17.93. So about $45. They originally wanted close to $80.
As much as I like the La crosse I just can't go back to FWD again. Too many compromises.
Hope Buick does well with it. They do need to price it properly out of the box. This instant rebate thing with GM borders on the absurd.
The rebate game GM is playing is absurd, sure. They are losing a lot of potential customers - those who do not know the rules of the game, and are filtering out GM cars even before starting shopping seriously.
However, some flexibility in pricing depending on season, etc. is very reasonable. For example, price goes up $1000 in May, returns to normal after July 04, decreases $1000 in October, and another $1000 for leftover after December 15. The current rebates permit the flexibility.
Additionally, the demand for new car designs usually is high. As a rule, for the first for 2-3 months, but sometimes for a whole year or even two. It happened last year with Gran Prix, even while it is rather a modification of the 97-03 model, than a radical redesign. Four years ago GM did not provide any rebate for 2000 Impala. I bought a loaded Regal GS instead, and paid what a loaded Impala LS would cost. Most recently people were buying 300C for $5,000 and even $7,000 above MSRP. Now they are available for $2,000 below MSRP. I expect the same to happen with LaCrosse.
Personally, I think it would be insane to pay premium for the privilege of being guinea pig. However, it is very reasonable for manufacturers and dealers to capitalize on the widespread insanity.
Is it true the 3.6 requires synthetic oil or is this just an owner's preference? If it requires synthetic, I guess the 3.8 just found a new reason to recommend itself!
I saw one in person at the autoshow in motion event in Philly and I can say the interior of the car looks very nice. clearly the best looking midsize interior GM has done and definitely on par with the camry and accord. The car they had featured the 16" polished wheels and it was crimson in color. They also had a G6 on display.
You mentioned the 16" wheels...GM picked nice wheels for this car (pics in ordering guide, linked previously in the thread). Even the wheel covers look nice. I'm glad they didn't go with the overdone wheels that were on the auto show version in the winter.
According to Mr. Lutz at the unveiling ceremony (see video on Lacrosse site), 90% of max torque (225 ft-lbs) is available from 1600 rpm all the way up to 6000 rpm. Very flat indeed.
GM only certifies discrete engine/transmission combinations. It's possible the transmission is the limiting factor that diminishes the potential of the 3.6 engine as compared to the rear-drive CTS. As always, the proof will be in the test drive...
I'm a former Regal (1996) owner interested in this next generation Buick.
Looking at the specs on the link provided by bigdaddy, I didn't see any mention of sunroofs. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place. I'm not a big fan of these, and would prefer a model without a sunroof.
Also -- a weak point on the interior of my old Regal was rear seat headroom, and I notice a dropoff of more than two inches from front to rear headroom in the LaCrosse. Has anyone sat in one of these to check headroom?
Do we have any idea when these will be at our local Buick dealers?
Forgive me if these questions have been answered, and just refer me to earlier posts if you like. I haven't been following this thread closely, but am getting more interested in the car.
both in appearance and lack of WOW features (I think they should have tried to get cooled & heated seats on the option list, as well as NAVI and maybe Blue Tooth, at least to chase away the "blue hair" crowd)
They chase away the blue hair crowd, they may chase away the only reliable customers that Buick has. Oldsmobile made this mistake. They chased away the old crowd without attracting the new crowd!
Comments
Personally, I am thankful to more curious people, who like to test new technology. I will need a new car in 2.5 to 4 years only, and will have "free ride" on their experience, would it be positive or negative.
As far as the 3.8L engine goes, it's a great motor but is out of date by todays standards. I'm with Yurakm. I think the 3.6L will be standard in all the midsize GMs in a few years. It's lighter, delivers more horsepower and torque, and should be just as reliable as the 3.8L. Of course only time will tell but GM built his engine to be the best V6 in the world.
Dumb. Really dumb.
Concerning turbo/supercharging 3.6l: I would not do it at home nor at performance shop. The aftermarket mods are difficult, expensive, and would reduce reliability of engine and transmission. The cars supercharged at factory, e.g. Regal GS and GP GTP, have a lot of parts beefed up. In addition to heavy duty engine and heavy duty transaxle, they have: more powerful fuel pump, different fuel lines, different intake manifold, different software (PCM), etc., etc.
A stock blower is a different story. It is much easier to accomodate the necessary mods at factory. Plus GM can better engineer and test the design and to stay behind its products. GM simply somewhat better know its own cars, and have much more financial resources than small aftermarket companies.
I have read that currently GM is playing with double-turbocharged 3.6l engine. It produces 400 hp; this is deep in the Corvette territory. I have serious doubts, though, that the engine will see market at all, even more that it will be available with LaCrosse.
It takes Mobil 1 synthetic oil which
is about a $80 oil change.
I am wondering if the 240hp. Buick version will
have a lower redline and take regular oil. Hence the lower hp rating.
Any comments?
But it should with a 3.73 rear gear and a 3.42 1st gear in the tranny.
Also I had both left bank camshafts replaced at 1300 miles. They were not machined properly and the cam followers were making some noise as the contacted the surface of the cam.
It is evidently an easy job to replace the cams. Unbolt them and put new one in. TYhey have a tool that ensures that the timing remains the same.
No metal shavings in the oil and all is well at 5500 miles.
The dealership had another SRX the week before with the same problem.
How much oil takes the 3.6l engine? More than 15 quarts? And what filter it uses?
Mobil 1 costs about $20 for 5 quart jig at Walmart. Pure One filter $6 at Pep Boys. Labor $12 or so at Chevy dealer, or about the same with coupon at Firestone. Total about $40 for Regal GS.
The Buick dealer who sold us the Regal changes oil for life for free, and throws a free car wash. However, I hate how they treated me, nor cannot stand waiting 2-3 hours at the dealership.
- The Regal GS transmission used to take 280 lb*ft, and the same transmission takes as much torque and 260 hp with 2004 Gran Prix GTP.
- Lower redline explains lower power, but does not explain lower torque.
I also have doubt concerning the other two reasons.
There is another argument against Cadillac: it is kind not modest to drive one, especially when most of colleagues do not. A wrong statement, like "I have more money, than you". Buick does not offend, though.
GM, where are you with your large AWD and RWD cars in other than the Cadillac lines? I can't hear you!
Ford: July, summer 2004
GM: When? When? Come on. When are we getting AWD and/or RWD cars?
So about $45.
They originally wanted close to $80.
As much as I like the La crosse I just can't go back to FWD again. Too many compromises.
Hope Buick does well with it.
They do need to price it properly out of the box.
This instant rebate thing with GM borders on the absurd.
The rebate game GM is playing is absurd, sure. They are losing a lot of potential customers - those who do not know the rules of the game, and are filtering out GM cars even before starting shopping seriously.
However, some flexibility in pricing depending on season, etc. is very reasonable. For example, price goes up $1000 in May, returns to normal after July 04, decreases $1000 in October, and another $1000 for leftover after December 15. The current rebates permit the flexibility.
Additionally, the demand for new car designs usually is high. As a rule, for the first for 2-3 months, but sometimes for a whole year or even two. It happened last year with Gran Prix, even while it is rather a modification of the 97-03 model, than a radical redesign. Four years ago GM did not provide any rebate for 2000 Impala. I bought a loaded Regal GS instead, and paid what a loaded Impala LS would cost. Most recently people were buying 300C for $5,000 and even $7,000 above MSRP. Now they are available for $2,000 below MSRP. I expect the same to happen with LaCrosse.
Personally, I think it would be insane to pay premium for the privilege of being guinea pig. However, it is very reasonable for manufacturers and dealers to capitalize on the widespread insanity.
Noted so far: OnStar is standard, and can't be deleted except on fleet orders. That sucks.
Maximum torque on the 3.6L VVT is 225@2000 rpm. Not much torque (about 63 ft-lb per liter), but it comes on really, really low.
-Andrew L
2 oil changes with Mobil 1 are about $90 so the synthetic really doesn't cost that much more.
I'm a former Regal (1996) owner interested in this next generation Buick.
Looking at the specs on the link provided by bigdaddy, I didn't see any mention of sunroofs. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place. I'm not a big fan of these, and would prefer a model without a sunroof.
Also -- a weak point on the interior of my old Regal was rear seat headroom, and I notice a dropoff of more than two inches from front to rear headroom in the LaCrosse. Has anyone sat in one of these to check headroom?
Do we have any idea when these will be at our local Buick dealers?
Forgive me if these questions have been answered, and just refer me to earlier posts if you like. I haven't been following this thread closely, but am getting more interested in the car.
Thanks.
Hopefully the "in person" viw will be better.