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I think Lincoln is moving fast - fast being a relative term. The problem is they keep stopping and changing directions going all the way back to the PAG fiasco.
They need to get the MKS out asap and start working on a new RWD/AWD platform for their flagship that can be shared with other divisions.
Oh now that's going to stir the S@#$ storm. Hey does anybody have an actual link to the actual rankings and all ?
Thanks
–Winner: Lexus IS 250/IS 350
–Runners-up: Lincoln Zephyr, Acura TL
Chief
JDPower Initial Quality Study results are in !
http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=14982
link LINK
Included in the industry vote (2007 MKZ)..
http://wardsauto.com/home/interior_winners_announced/
Why all of this money spend on an engine that is HP defecient right out of the gate. In an era of the 305hp toyota/Lexus V6 this 236hp garbadge is unacceptable.
C&D described this engine in the volvo as "adequate". The only way 236hp out of a 'new' engine is adequate is if its MY1999.
What do you guys think? Certainly the MKZ's engine could fit in a volvo. :mad:
Volvo' took the lead development of the 3.2L I-6 and it fits THEIR needs the most. Volvo prefers using I-6's because it allows for more space ahead of the engine, for crashworthiness.
Jaguar and LR will also have access to this engine. The LR2 will have this engine stateside. S-type will also use this engine next time around.
Also, a good majority of these engines will go towards other countries (specially in Europe) where your taxed upon certain engine/emmissions/size criteria. In the case of the Volvo S60, the 3.2L will hardly sell in comparison to the 2.5L I5, and/or D5.
If someone wants more power, a turbocharged variation of this engine will be available. A few for those countries, yet MANY for N.A.
Another issue is vehicle dynamics. I've test driven the Camry with it's 3.5L and thrown it into a corner, and understood why I will never own a FWD vehicle with that much weight in the engine bay. Then again, the typical Camry buyer would hardly drive their car that way.
Volvo's 3.2L sits a bit rearward than the current 2.5L for better platform balancing, and crash protection. Using a turbocharger is wiser for THEIR use, than throwing more displacement. In the Jaguar, the vehicle will achieve better 50/50 weight distribution, which is perfect for what THEY need.
And most importantly, Ford allowed PAG to design this engine for their sole use. Don't expect it in any Ford/Mercury branded vehicle for N.A. so it doesn't dilute PAG.
using price protection 06 prices for 07 models. The estimated price on my invoice was a increase
of 563.00 for a 07 FWD, but no pricing for
AWD 07, so using the base 2000.00 increase
that came from Ford
I would estimate MKZ 07 base will increase 563.00 to 600.00
MKZ 07 AWD upgrade extra 1400.00 to 1500.00 option
once again, do not hold me to this just using my invoice
of a 563.00 est increase (slightly discounted
for military) and what ford put out. my MKZ priced protected 06 prices for and 07 came in fully loaded at 31,600.00 about 3600.00 off MSRP so I am happy, still debating my interior but looks like light stone with the blue exterior
Chief
What site are you using?
sales. This information was on the dealers disk for the
month of june.
Chief
That is an interesting parameter. Actually it played a part in my purchase. I had the 300m since 2000 and thought about the new one and then said to myself, everyone has one of these see them all the time. I wanted something different. Now I must admit that you can go way over to that side because here in the Greater DC area I have only seen one or two of them since I purchased mine. Still if I find a sharp MKZ for 2007 I might trade up.
Volvo took the lead in making the engine? Great, so more moeny was spent by ford to pay them. They can take the lead all they want, give them the 3.5L to start working with, they can tone it down to 3.2 if they want (like cadillac with the 3.6) but Ford would have saved allot of development money, and most credit would have went to volvo, plus the 3.5L cost would be spread out better.
If volvo wants more space bet. the engine and the front of they car they can either redesign the car, or wait till ford has more money, b/c if ford/volvo worked together on this "V6 to save the company" as it could have been called, meybe it would come out of the gate AT 300 HP and give toyota something to worry about.
And many cutomers are growing tired of paying top dollar for inferrior euro performance from brands like jag/volvo/and less so Saab. The fact is, that our co's who own these brands could fit better parts in them. What GM did for saab by decreasing the turo the 3.2L gives the 9-3 some serious power. Im just saying that 236hp is a joke. And what volvo needs is irrelevant, its what we need that counts, and when a 25K camry bows past your new 35K volvo/Jag you will really feel that you got your moneys worth.
ANT, i love Ford, but IMO they made a terrible mistake here. They could have made the 3.5 even better, giving it DI in addition to its cirrent stup, but those funds were spent to give volvo an inline engine. Pathetic.
It's important to take all the above mentioned senarios in consideration. Yes the $25K Camry can blow by the Volvo, just like the Mustang can do all the above for $21K, case being, buyer's aren't exclusively looking for power. And IF they were, a Turbocharged 3.2L will be made available later, in "R" format.
If manufacturer's followed what the rags would demand, all cars would be as huge as minivans, with V8/V10 engines, and RWD.
There's always going to be a vehicle, that is faster, another that handles better, and another that is less expensive, another that has better materials, etc. I haven't driven the perfect package yet...I know, I try them all. So the 3.2L will do fine, and for those who need more power, there's the "R" series.
236 hp is pretty good, I think. Especially in a 3.2. I happen to like that Ford and Volvo are remaining separate in terms of most engines and platform designs. I like that the 500 (highly modified from the Volvo platform) offers a 3.0 that has less hp than the 3.2. I still think they should offer it to those customers who don't want a bigger engine.
I don't think it is Volvo's fault that Ford took so long to develop an engine competitive with offerings from other companies. It is not just the 3.5 delay. Where is Ford's Hurricane engine? Where is the hot engine for the Focus? Why isn't there anything bigger than the 3.5 on the horizon for the 500? Where's any diesel for American Fords? Why are the hybrid models so far behind Toyota and Honda's offerings? Why can't they put something competitive in the Town Car?
The Zephyr will now get the 3.5, but what will be offered above that and when? The Fusion will soon need the 3.5 to be competitive (the Escape as well), and so how will the MTZ stand out? Volvo's I6 and V8 on its flagship seems a good range by comparison.
I would choose the Oxford White Clearcoat with Dark Charcoal leather. Magnificent color combination!
be on the July disk, so I can do a complete build for a MKZ 07, I will update all Specs on this site, if they become available in July
Chief
The point is, that boost is good in a sports car, but to make your engine turbo JUST TO KEEP IT competetive? Thats not good news.
No one is driving like a bat out of hell, but if i can get 50hp more for the same money than that will HEAVILY influence my descision. 10hp i can undrstand, but 50? That smells bad.
Also, don't forget that the toyota engines get close to of above 30mpg hyway while still delivering close to 300hp. In this age, Ford should have collaborated with volvo, released a 300hp VVT DI engine, and finally lead the competition.
ANT, engine "exclusivness" takes second place to bieng able to compete.
I know your defending it, and i understand why, but Ford got licked this time, by themselves. I do not think many people at lease here in the US will choose a V6 volvo that gets mid 90's power levels when for the same fuel economy they can bet 50 more hp in a toyota (and now GM and even some other Fords).
Unless they make that 3.2 make 270 hp without steroids, then this engine was a colossal waste of time and money, no matter how 'smooth' it is.
I personally would have preferred the Yamaha 4.4L on something like an S60...reality is, the weight over the front wheel would create a sloppy handler. Boosting resolves those issues, without having to compensate in other ways.
Yes, for must less money there's other like Nissan and Toyota, but for whatever "X X X" reasons, people will not choose them. It's all about their personal taste and what their requirements are.
I do understand your frustration, I too wish that everything had massive engines under the hood. Unfortunately Ford is putting out many wildfires at the moment, an unfair exchange rate with foreign rivals, UAW, etc. And for Volvo, at this time, it's needs, it's customers, it's allowance, it's purpose, the 3.2L is what will work, with an "R" boosted model later.
It's debuting in the next F-series coming up in 2008.
Where is the hot engine for the Focus?
Which engine would that be?
Why isn't there anything bigger than the 3.5 on the horizon for the 500?
The 3.5L can be bore/stroked to 3.8/4.0 easily...BUT, why increase weight when the 3.5L with DI can accomplish it in a simpler fashion.
Where's any diesel for American Fords?
There's the Powerstroke Diesel that have existed for years on the F-series. There's a larger one coming up soon. As for vehicles, Ford has a Diesel team studying the posibility of using it in sedans provided current emmission standards are phased in.
Why are the hybrid models so far behind Toyota and Honda's offerings?
The supplier (Sanyo-which Toyota uses as well and favors supplying them over Ford) can't produce enough battery packs, therefore they are tapped out. Ford is seeking other alternatives here in the U.S.
Why can't they put something competitive in the Town Car?
Do you really want to increase the rate of store-front accidents caused by grannies with 350HP on tap who claimed the car leaped and lost control?....
Although I agree, and have been frustrated about that. Slamming a 300HP 4.6L in there is long overdo. But that platform won't be around for long...
While it may be a worthwhile safety feature, especially for those drivers distracted by juggling their Big Mac and their mobile phone, the lack of it probably wouldn't be a make or break for me. But I'm wondering, is ESC going to at least be offered on the '07 MKZ?
I had hopes for Mark Fields. All he has done of a positive note was kickstart the Hurricane engine program again. Whoever made the decision to suspend it should be fired.
While GM is speeding up introductions, in some cases by as much as a year, Ford is using their troubles to go back to the drawing board, delaying some introductions by as much as two years. How does such ineptness get to run big companies?
The problem is that in some cases Ford either doesn't have anything on the drawing board (B car e.g.) or what they have just isn't right, so they don't have much choice other than to start over. Ford can't afford to do it wrong - they have to get it right even if it means waiting.
Like other car companies, Ford needs to get quality stuff out there and see if it takes. If it doesn't, they need other ideas waiting in the wings. I'd sure hate to see them delay the B car, for example, until 2010, and then either find that the marketplace had moved on, or the design itself receive a luikewarm reception.
Maybe it is better to wait a couple of years to get the product right, or more so, before introduction. It's kind of a case of "darned if you do; darned if you don't."
The Chrysler 300 has been out for several years now, and with several engine choices. The Chevy Cobalt is now old news, but again, was issued with the hot engine already on the option sheet. Both Chrysler and GM are filling the car mags with new or proposed models. They moved the large SUV introductions up, and now have moved the new pickups intro up by a year. Pontiac has the Solstice, G6 coupe and convertible out in the same year, with a new Grand Prix and GTO models planned. Saturn has a whole slew of new models arriving now or very soon. Cadillac keeps upping the ante. Jeep has four new models all at once, and nothing in its line-up is old. I am not even addressing the Koreans and Japanese who seem to be able to turn out new models and updates faster than anyone can keep track.
Do they all succeed? No. But Ford has had a longstanding problem of sitting back on its haunches following Job 1. Especially in the case of a winner. Look how far the Town Car and Taurus and Explorer and Ranger have fallen.
Now I see there is no update at all planned for the Mustang until 2009. Their track record says it will be half-hearted, even as the Camaro and Challenger will both be in showrooms.
The Mustang is a great design, but there are limitless ways it could be updated and still keep its Mustang-ness. Look at the Camaro proposal. It looks like a Camaro, but is obviously a new car and new design--not retro. The next Mustang could do the same thing: retain its Mustang-ness while being completely new.
Lincoln could also do that with its big sedans. It could have developed/refined some of the concept cars it issued earlier this decade. What we got is the Zephyr/MTZ. What in heck is MTZ-ness when they finally get around to updating its generic look???
Now you are again TELLING us that 232hp is adequate given Volvo's buyers and the population is ASKING for more power. Volvo wants the S40 to grow to be a real 3-Series competitor. Volvo wants to compete in the big leagues. Volvo's safety status as mentioned by an article recently isn't as unique as it used to be since everyone is focusing on safety now in days. America likes power and speed. Look at the Nissan Altima. It sold very well. The interior was horrible, reliability wasn't that great, it had pretty good looks, and a killer VQ engine though. Come on ANT, I think Ford really needs to stop TELLING, and just start LISTENING. Give the consumer what they want. The Fusion is selling well, but is there any doubt it would sell better with a more powerful engine? Many buyers do a lot of reading now-in-days before purchasing a car. Information is at an all time high. When they look to comparison tests, the best way to gage their most likely top candidates, it isn't good to have your cars keep getting panned as "slow" even if their performance is "adequate". America loves speed.
Now you are again TELLING us that 232hp is adequate given Volvo's buyers and the population is ASKING for more power. Volvo wants the S40 to grow to be a real 3-Series competitor. Volvo wants to compete in the big leagues. Volvo's safety status as mentioned by an article recently isn't as unique as it used to be since everyone is focusing on safety now in days. America likes power and speed. Look at the Nissan Altima. It sold very well. The interior was horrible, reliability wasn't that great, it had pretty good looks, and a killer VQ engine though. Come on ANT, I think Ford really needs to stop TELLING, and just start LISTENING. Give the consumer what they want. The Fusion is selling well, but is there any doubt it would sell better with a more powerful engine? Many buyers do a lot of reading now-in-days before purchasing a car. Information is at an all time high. When they look to comparison tests, the best way to gage their most likely top candidates, it isn't good to have your cars keep getting panned as "slow" even if their performance is "adequate". America loves speed.
I'm Sorry driverdm I completely disagree with you. If Americans Love speed then how in the world can Toyota sell a single car ? Also, if Americans Love speed why in the world are people buying that damn toaster on 4 wheels the Scion XB that has a top speed of 70 MPH because it's a brick? America is much more diversified than that. To be real with you, HP and speed are just bragging rights and something that you'll never really enjoy. Tell me, one place in America were you can drive 100 + on the street for a good period of time and 1 not get a speeding ticket or 2 kill somebody ?
Also, using the 500 for example is a horrible reference compared to the Avalon. Oh so your saying, the Avalon is selling because it's fast !?!? LOL, Oh yeah I heard the Avalon can out run a Shelby GT500 Mustang in the quarter mile LOL :P
The real reason the 500 is struggling is becuase 1 it's a Ford which in America stands for Fix Or Repair Daily 2 the style is way to european and to understated and 3 it certainly is not fast.
Anyway, I think that the 3.2 236Hp engine is not crap. Ford can only build so many 3.5 V6 engines and most of them are going into the Edge, MKX and the MKZ next year. Before it's said and done with I wouldn't be surprised if the 3.5 V6 made it into the Fusion/Milan as well. So they would not be able to make enough for everybody. So I think you've watch a little to much Fast and the Furious. America is much more diversfied than the quater mile drag strip. I think the 3.2 engine is a good engine. What Ford really needs to do, is drop that I-5 they have in the Volvo S40 into the American Ford Focus to really give that ST model some kick. So it can really challenge the Honda Civic SI with 197 Hp and 137 P/torque. Thats just me.
The MTZ is also fairly dull, but comes off sexy as hell by comparison with the 500.
Maybe I'm missing something?
The 500/Montego may not be sexy but they took 3rd and 1st place respectively in Auto Pacific's ideal car ratings.
2006 Ideal Vehicle Awards
The top-rated vehicle and top-rated car is the Mercury Montego in the Large Car/Luxury Car category. In fact, Ford Motor Company sweeps the first three positions overall with the Ford Crown Victoria and Ford Five Hundred in second and third place.
Either way, the 500 is a good car, just not a finished one. Good enough for most people, I like the car too. Sometimes the power is enough, sometimes its not. But one look at an avalon will make you very upset.
Now, what they ahould do sometime soon is introduce a lincoln coupe, somehow that seems less likely, and if Ford does up update the mustang (liek give its 4.6L DI or something) then when the camaro comes out the mustang will be so dead its not even funny. People will buy it, but only for a discount.
And that base engine should really give you better economy. Meybe Ford could wake up and reduce the Cobras price by a few grand and make the engine out of allumium, giving the car a better weight balance and improving accelleration numbers. What a creat car, with with 500hp i think 4.5 to 60 is a bit too much.
Still an amazing car, though, gota give credit to ford for taking the lead with this when the other guys were dropping out of the segment. That would be my number 1 reason for getting one - assuming it was competetive with the camaro.
The whole thing is stupid. If it is Mark Z, then call it that. If it is MKZ, then it is Em Kay Zee. Ford executives can say Mark Z all they want to "MKZ," but when someone reads the trunk label letters, I bet it will slowly but surely become an Em Kay Zee in the public parlance.
And no matter how much power a vehicle has, it's numerous other items that make the vehicle. To address one issue, in relationg to numerous others, doesn't make good business. In case of the Titan...Nissan thought power was going to bring them in, and it did, but fell short of sales target, reliabiility has been abysmal, and I'm willing to bet mnany won't return to a Nissan product.
If we would have waited for the 500 to debut with the 3.5L, then the argument becomes (it's dated, why did they take so long, didnt they think of this). Coupled with, lost sales, lost production, idled workers etc. NOT good business sense. As it is, the 500 was a totally new vehicle released in a totally renovated flexible plant. And in it's first year, it was in the top 3 in initial quality by JDPower.
That vehicles shortcoming will be addressed with next years restyle. Ford is busy putting out many fires at the same time, some require more attention than others.