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Honda Civic vs. Toyota Corolla
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Comments
I think the side airbags offered in the 2004 Civic are only marginally beneficial, since they only protect the torso. For the cost, I'd say get them, but if they were any more expensive Id probably not care. To be clear, the seat mounted side impact airbags offered on the Civic do NOT protect the head. Same thing for the 2004 Corolla, but this was changed for the 2005s, which are currently available (the 2005s feature front seat mounted thoracic and head protection side curtains for front and rear passengers).
In terms of insurance, with a clean record and many years of driving experience, I can understand why the 2 door is not that much more $$.
~alpha
Warner
Here we go again. Why stop at the $500 cost of timing belt replacemnt? You will most likely go through 2-3 sets of tires ($300 each time), a set of front brakes ($40-$80), 25 oil changes ($20 each) , 1-2 transmission fluid changes ($30-$50 each), brake fluid flush ($30-$50), a few light bulbs ($5 each) and at least 2 headlight bulbs ($10 each), 3-4 air filters ($10-$15 each) in 100,000 miles before the timing belt replacemnt. Owning a car AIN'T cheap, the $300-$500 cost of timing belt replacement is miniscule compared to the total cost of the vehicle and other maintenance by 100,000 miles.
Here is the deal breaker for you. Cost of gasoline in 100,000 miles:
Assume Civic LX averages 40 mpg that is 2500 gallons of fuel at $2/gal that is $5000, while a car at 35 mpg will consume 2857 gallons, at $2/gal that is $5714, a car averaging 30 mpg will consume 3333.33 gals at $2/gal that is $6666.67. So, yes you can get a car with timing chain that will save you $300-$500 in belt replacemnt, while you will pay $1667.67 more in fuel in the same 100,000 miles.
By the way, the Civic Si come with timing chain.
Currently, I have been quoted 17200 out the door price for a corolla le with abs, jbl audio package and front side airbags. This, however, was by a dealer here in Atlanta that I have seen several poster complain about, and they want a deposit up front. I have also been quoted 16250 for a civic lx with front side airbags. Once again, the dealer has a "less than perfect" reputation, and so far has only sent general pictures of civics when I ask the see the specifics of the one we are talking about.
There are two other dealers who are friendlies and have better reputations, but cannot come close to matching those prices (about 500- 600 more). Does anyone have any suggestions? This is the first time I buy a new car and it seems to me that there is a trade off between dealer reliability and price. Also, the civics are a lot more expensive than I though they would be, given the clearance and the fact that they are an older model than the corolla.
i was quoted $16,100 out the door for the 04 Civic LX with side airbags by a local major dealer in houston over the internet. the offer is valid for me for the next 72 hours.
So, I decided to check out the competition, and found the Toyota Corolla. I like the look of it better, and it felt more comfortable to me as far as seeing out the back (the trunk is lower than the Civic). The ride was comparable, and they seem to get very comparable gas mileage (despite the Corolla having more power than the Civic). The Corolla cost A LOT less (I was able to get mine for $13,700 with cruise control and power locks and A/C). They were able to offer wonderful financing (2.9% for 5 years). So, I am very happy with my brand new Corolla CE.
By the way, I really like the daytime running lights on the Corolla, since it makes you more visible. Also, it has a light sensor on the dash (standard in all Corollas) which automatically turns the headlights on and off.
Good luck to your daughter, and I know the feeling, being in the same position myself!
I don't know where you live, but $17K for DX is absurd. People pay $13K for LX. I paid $14,500 for brand new Si in early 2003.
Were you looking at Civic's with HOnda Factory Perfomance Packages?
Now we want newer car, but can't make up our mind.
Any opinions out there.
There is no reason why a car built in OH would cost more in OH than it did in CT. Check out http://www.carsdirect.com plug in your zip code. This will give you the no hassle price. Right now the price for my zip code the 4 dr LX is $13.9K and 2 door is $13.7, plug in your zip and see what it is. I usually get a better price on my own than through carsdirect.
Insurance wise, a coupe will cost more in insurance. Even a 2 door Explorer costs more to insure than a 4 door one.
My brother bought a 2004 Honda Civic EX back in January of '04 the car is nice and I like it alot. Both my parents, and my brother said that I should get one too.
Before I bought the Corolla I had a 1990 Acura Integra which I still have. "My husband is driving it now" It has a few minor outside problems, but It has 83,000 miles so there was no point in selling it I would not have gotten anything for the car. It is still driving good needs a little work. I also have emotional attachment to the car it is a family air loom. This car has been in the family since I was 13 years old I am now almost 28. I guess it was about time I got something new right.
I have driven in my brother's car(04 civic ex) many times and I like it I like the look the ride. But when I test drove the 05 Corolla I was in love. I Love the way it looks " Very Classy looking. The car looks great in silver" It was roomier on the inside than the civic the ride was much smoother "It rides like a luxury car but it could catch up to the sporty cars I call it my baby lexus."
The mpg is incredible "I only fill up once a week", and the price was around $2000 less than what my brother paid for his car.
Whatever car you buy wether it is a Honda or Toyota you will be getting great car that will last for years but to make that final choice test drive and ask people who own cars like these now on how they like it.
Certainly you are entitled to your preferences, but I'd a lot rather read about why someone thinks what he or she thinks than just the results of an either/or choice presented to people who don't have to back up their choice with some kind of reasoning.
Just my thoughts.
BTW, anybody from Columbus Ohio should stay away from Direct Autoplex (Toyota, Scion, Mazda). Went to test drive a Corolla over the weekend based on the 'invitation' of the Internet Manager; looking for him he's nowhere to be found. Another salesperson tried to 'earn' my business for the day. I asked twice for the price of 2005 Corolla S and the breakdown (tax, title, fees), but seemed to be ignored. The salesperson came back with monthly payment plan for 60 months way over what a Honda Internet Manager quoted me for a 2004 Civic LX out of the door.
I sensed something very fishy about the dealership, especially because the salesperson's facial expression changed from nice and smilling to very stiff after I demanded him to tell me the price of a Corolla S with no options installed. When I said my budget is way below that, he kept asking me how much was I willing to pay. I was so uncomfortable with the whole experience so I gave him a number that I knew his Manager wouldn't be able to match (though still reasonably in the range quoted by Honda on a Civic LX). I waited for 10 minutes before the salesperson came back and said he'd be in touch with the Internet Manager (who 'invited' me for the test drive) to contact me. It's such a ridiculous experience so when I got home I emailed the Internet Manager that I'm considering a different vehicle altogether. Wish I can report this to Toyota but again will Toyota care about this?
I actually e-mailed toyota at gotoyota.com (or toyota.com) and the options are separate but 'geographical considerations' have more packaging...Well I wrote them to let them know they gave me no choice but to go w/Honda...(I know I have not yet decided, but it's 95% certain).
~alpha
I, for one am glad the choice is there. If you plan to keep your vehicle more than 10 years, the air bags have a 10 year cinderella/cinderfella stroke of midnight clause. I am sure you'd be amazed at how much it will cost if you follow the recommendation to replace it.
In regards to ABS, while conceptually a good idea, falls far far short of its intented goals. When the ABS first came out, even the insurance company (I presume did the projective studies) came out and gave a ABS discount; citing safer, cheaper, less accidents, yada yada. Not too many years later (two as I recollect) they categorically cancelled the discount; citing words to the effect; "no statistical significance in decreasing accidents and fatalities (fulfilling the stated goal) !!??
Also most folks who would swear by them, really don't even know that the intented purpose is to be able to STEER while so called executing "panic stop like" applications. In just about 650,000 miles, the only time that I personally have the ABS work is when I take them out to PURPOSELY function them. 1. to make sure it works 2 keep in practice.
The reason why you want to keep in practice is that 1. abs does NOT overcome the laws of physics 2. keep one confident in how you and it will behave under emergency conditions. So what % of folks do you know do this??
The Civic feels like a tin can versus a Corolla. 1. Shut the doors on the Civic and it sounds like you crushed a soda can. Shut the doors on the Corolla and they close with a soft, sound insulated, reassuring thud.
2. Ride around in the Civic and hit bumps, and the car feels very light and a bit bouncy. The Corolla soaks up bumps with a much quieter, insulated cabin, and smooth ride.
3. Add to that the fact that most Corollas can be had for less than the Civic EX, and the hands down winner is the Corolla.
Also using Edmunds.com and local research indicated the Civic depreciated FAR less than the Corolla.
The Corolla's AT says it is "ECT" or Electronically controlled. IS this similar to the "Grade Logic Control" of the Civic, or is it something defferent?
Civic Si has timing chain, no need to replace. It does not come with auto, so no need to wait for tranny to "descide" for you which gear is better, you select the gear with the arm and a leg that you were born with.
Are you sure Corolla XRS has timing chain? That Yamaha built engine would make me question Toyota's ability to produce engines in-house. At least with Honda you are getting 100% Honda engineered and Honda built vehicle. Not an outsourced Yamaha engine stuck in a Toyota body. If I wanted a Yamaha, I would buy a Yamaha. I assume when you buy a Toyota, you want a Toyota not Yamaha.
But I'm rambling. The Civic and Corolla are both great cars. Really. Pick whichever one you like more. Just remember that the Corolla is more comfortable and the Civic is a tad more nimble. They are also comparably priced. Side airbags aren't available on a lot of Civics, though.
I wasn't mad about the XRS because of its silly body moldings. Its engine is fine. It revs like a racecar, and I loved the six speed tranny. Personally, I don't give a hoot as to who made the engine. There are engines being traded around all of the time, and just because Toyota decided to lift one from Yamaha doesn't make the XRS inferior to the Si. That's big talk, considering Honda hasn't been making anything above 6 cylinders. Oh, the capitalism! My Corolla's transmission is a 5 speed auto (lifted from Camry-once again), but I thought that the 4-speed was fine.
You're implying Toyota doesn't build quality engines...Now this part is a joke, right???
You're implying Toyota doesn't build quality engines...Now this part is a joke, right???
I didn't say quality was an issue, I just think that if you buy a Toyota you would want all Toyota and not half Yamaha half Toyota.
Honda is an engineering company. Toyota is an appliance company.
Honda developed stratified engine technology in late 60's, brought it to the US market in 1972 Honda CVCC, which later became Civic.
Honda developed 12 valve engine in early 80's to improve the fuel economy by further stratifing fuel charge and creating swirl in the combustion chamber.
Honda developed 16 valve engine in mid 80's to extract more energy out of the same fuel charge.
Honda developed VTEC in early 90's to allow for higher revving engines, and produce more HP per liter of displacement of any naturally aspirated mass marketed engine.
Honda developed i-VTEC in early 21st centruy to compensate for the VTEC's lack of torque.
Honda developed the world's only diesel engine that produces less emission than the cleanest gasoline engine in 2004.
Just for reference, "Toyota's VVTL-i" has not been developed by Toyota, nor is made by Toyota. And Toyota implemented it in late 90's early 21st century. Toyota makes fine vehicle, but they are not as technologically advanced as Honda.
Honda pioneered the "luxury spin off" with introduction of Acura line in 1986. It took Toyota a few years to catch up with its Lexus brand.
Honda is willing to take risks, Toyota does not. Honda is one of the smallest automotive companies in the world, yet it holds a very big share of the market, much bigger than its size would suggest.
Ever seen a Toyota generator provding electricity to disaster ravaged area? Ever seen a Toyota generator that can fit in a suit case? Toyota outboard engine? Toyota lawnmmower? Toyota snowblower? Toyota power washer?
The highly regarded generators, power washers, water pumps, lawnmowers are all made by Honda or powered by Honda engines. Maybe that is why GM is buying Honda V6's and not Toyota's, or anyone elses.
Regarding the Guiness book of records, VW Bettle holds the record for the most sold vehicle in the world, surpassing Ford model T. Does that mean that VW is a quality vehicle? Not in my book.
Honestly, I could care less if Honda and Toyota were to make televisions, snowblowers, blah blah blah. I would go and purchase these products with companies that are known for their expertise/reliability in those particular items and NOT with Honda or Toyota.
You wrote, " Honda pioneered the "luxury spin off" with introduction of Acura line in 1986. It took Toyota a few years to catch up with its Lexus brand. " SO????????????????????? Does this mean the Lexus is a bad/unreliable/poorly built car???? ...Remember this just because it was built/invented first DOES NOT...I repeat...DOES NOT mean it's the best.
Here's an interesting thing...you make a big deal of Toyota and Yamaha working together, what's the big deal with this? Sony and others are currently working on the amazing technology the PlayStation 3 will have, so????? And there are many more examples too... I think you should rate the Toyota engines and see where they stack up. Now if they are terrible or bad after they both worked together, then I see your point...otherwise it doesn't make sense.
Oh but back to the topic, geez I almost forgot the main topic, I test drove both the 2005 Corolla and Civic and they both were smooth, comfortable, roomy and well built. My next purchase will be a 2005 or 2006 Corolla ( XRS or S ). I like it better than the Civic because it has a larger trunk, more cushiony seats, and it's more refined than the Civic. Some people say the Civic handles better than the Corolla but they are pretty equal...you can't go wrong with either one.
The fact of the matter is that Honda took a risk of launching a new brand, while Toyota sat back and watched what happened. Only because Acura was a success Toyota jumped in. Toyota was second, in my book that is called not being innovative.
Honda took a risk in developing Ferrari fighter, Honda/Acura NSX, and it was a very viable alternative to supercars in early 90's at sub-$100,000 price.
By the way, Honda developed WORLD'S FIRST HUMANOD ROBOT that is available for leasing in Japan. I have visited Aoyama Honda when living in Japan, and Azimo is more amazing in person, than any TV can convey. Addmittedly, it took Honda 4 years to teach it English, but in 2001, it was way ahead of its time.
Just as always, Honda is ahead of the pack in engineering and pioneering new technology, be it automotive, electronics or robotics. Everyone else is following in their success. Other companies, not just Toyota, are not willing to take risks in developing new technology. That is the difference between a leader and a follower.
Mods will probably delete this because it is off topic, but it demonstrates the way progress is made:
Don't start me on Sony. Sony is a big bully of the electronics world. The new PS3 is developed by IBM using their cell processor technology. The current issue IBM has with Sony is that Sony makes everything proprietary, which limits market share. IBM took a bald move in the 80's of allowing IBM compatible machines. Look where it took us in 20 years. Computers are everywhere, most of them are IBM clones/IBM compatible. Mac went proprietary way, there not that many Mac's out there. Same story with camcorder, Panasonic, Toshiba, and JVC developed VHS, and Sony developed Betacam. The VHS went public, while Sony on the other hand, made Betacam proprietary, where is Betacam now?
Toyota makes quality appliances, while Honda pushes the edge of technology. This is a big difference in my book. Being an R&D person myself, I value innovation. Innovation is what drives progress forward. I have worked for companies that were "proud to be #2." This drove me crazy. They would dismiss my ideas, only because "there is no one else out there with product like that." Now, I work for a company that is #1 in its field, because it is not affraid to be innovative.
Toyota historically has had the best quality reports (second to none) and their primary corporate objective is to focus on market share in the automobile/truck transportation sector.
Honda's corporate objective is more diversified (cycles, generators, lawnmowers) and I would agree are the primary innovators in engine technology and engineering technology.
In terms of which car is better Civic/Corolla, (as a sports bettor would say) pick'em.
The forum title is Civic - Corolla.
Toyota knows that it is losing market share with younger generation, this is why they came up with the Scion brand. Ask a 16 year old if he/she would like a brand new Corolla or a Civic. Most would choose a Civic, some would even choose a used Civic over a new Corolla. Civic was the pony car of the 90's. Needless to say that I was a teenager in the 90's and felt similarly about the Civic. It was the car to have. Even now, approaching 30, I drive an Si, the car I could not afford as a teen. But, I think I may have outgrown it, so TSX is in line to replace the Civic.
No go back and think what you just said. To me, innovations matter alot. If it were not for innovations, we'd be in the middle of a midevil marketplace, arguing if a Donkey is better than a Mule.
I support innovation, how about you?
This is a generalization, but the Corolla seems more luxurious and targeted towards mature folks, while the Civic is more sporty and aimed towards youths or the young at heart (Also, Civic is the only choice between the 2 competitors if you want a coupe, a hatchback, or a hybrid that doesn't look like a hybrid.)
Some people like the plastic woodgrain finish along with white-faced gauges that turns greenish at night, while others like the black/gray 2-tone dash with the control panel in black metallic and a spectacular blue/purple-circled instrument cluster that lights up during the day (red for coupes).
There are, and always will be, Corolla people and Civic people. It's like the Camaro vs. Mustang rivalry that's gone on for decades.
My point is, people see things differently and buy a car based on:
looks (no one would buy what they think is a butt-ugly car)
value (best car that they can afford)
ride (some like hard, medium, or soft(floaty) rides)
safety
dependability
Both cars are excellent choices.
Since I bought both a brand new Sienna and Corrola from the same dealer (Watertown Toyota) on the same day you think they might try and go to bat for me. Nope! gee whiz our hands are tied blah blah blah. After a year the car now gets about 18 to 20 city out of a rating of 29 mpg. Oh what a feeling! Toyota does not give a rats [non-permissible content removed] about you or your car once they have your money. Anyone thinking of buying a Corrola over a Civic should think again.
:joke: Sienna has better mileage than corrola...lol
If 2006 Civic has more hp + torque, 5 speed auto(optional), larger than corolla(interior dimension), even slightly higher price, it is going to the BEST OF the best buy! The for sure advantages is standard SAB, overhead SCAB, ABS, TC, VSC are standard!
Personally, I like the Civic better but I am biased. I have not heard of the stink problem on Civics yet.
According to the Corolla Problem message boards, the smell is caused by using gas with a high sulfer content. Sometimes the smell can be remedied by buying higher octane gas, or by having the dealer change the catalytic converter.
Good luck to you.
The fact of the matter is that Honda took a risk of launching a new brand, while Toyota sat back and watched what happened. Only because Acura was a success Toyota jumped in. Toyota was second, in my book that is called not being innovative.
I think that is a very smart move on the part of Toyota.
The bottom line is that even though honda did this and that first, does not mean anything. Toyotas reputation for reliability nor its quality has not been marred because of it.
Read the press relase for Scion brand creation. I never compared Toyota to GM, I simple stated the facts in the press release, that Toyota wants to bring young people to the brand. Toyota's average buyer age is in the mid 40's while Honda's average buyer is early 30's. There is 10 to 15 year gap in average age of buyers. Which means that Honda gets more new buyers, and Toyota simply retains the old clientelle, while unable to attract younger buyers. Both brands have about 60% retention rate as far as repeat buyers, but Honda has more young college graduates as new buyers, while Toyota has more retiree home residents as repeat buyers. These new buys start at the low end models and slowly progress to the higher end models as their incomes rise. If Toyota fails to attaract new, fresh out of college buyers, there will be no more repeat buyers for Toyota.
I never stated that Honda brought hybrid to the market first. But since you brought in the hybrids. Both Honda and Toyota had hybrids in Japan at the same time, but Honda took the risk of bringing the Insight here well before Toyota brought the Prius to US shores. Once again, Honda took a risk, while Toyota sat back and watched.
Honda hybrid is a much simpler system with alot less parts to go wrong, and it achieves almost the same results. Since it is simpler it costs less to produce. It will be easier to maintain down the road, and repairs will cost less, if ever needed one.
The technology that honda is supposedly making is taking them where??????
Honda has broadened its market outside of Automotive and into power equipement, emergency relief equipment, robotics, and aeronautics. Yes, Honda has built a prototype airplane. It may never go on sale, but people didn't think that humanoid robot was a possibilty either. And, what do you know, Honda is selling Azimo to the public in Japan and showcasing it around the world since 2001. A completley autonomous humanoid robot. Something that we thought was science fiction, Honda brought to reality.
As far as Honda's transmission problems, Honda stepped up to the plate and extended warranty coverage on affected V6 auto Accords and Oddyseys to 100,000 miles. What did Toyota do for the people whose V6's siezed up on them due to sludge build up?
You can Never go wrong with a TOYOTA!!!!
Just like famous fictional MI7 agent said: "Never say never, again" :-)
Just based off of your screen name, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you have a heavy bias. I will say this, Honda is anything but overrated. Your supposed sample size can certainly weigh in on your future judgements but I think you're taking this a little too personally.
You prefer the Corolla? Terrific. There's a lot of people who also made that decision. This thread is to weigh the pros and cons of both cars and I think the differences have been articulated quite well so far.
But there's a reason the Civic is a top ten selling car year after year and I'll give you a hint, one of them is not because it's overrated.