Addressing the Fit's shortcomings

backy · May 2006

Although the Fit will out-handle and out-haul the Accord while getting better fuel economy.

Pricing comparisons to the Accord et. al. don't have much to do with the Fit's shortcomings.

moparbad · May 2006

Pricing comparisons to the Accord et. al. don't have much to do with the Fit's shortcomings. :sick:

Comparing the worth of the Fit with other vehicles is constructive. Price comparison to an Accord is very useful when the price difference is only $1300. :surprise:

The less you pay for what you get the better off you are.

The high price of the Fit is a shortcoming, a fault, a drawback......

Fit = entry level Honda
Civic = mid level Honda
Accord = premium level Honda

In the US, the MSRP of the least cost Civic is 6% higher than least cost Fit, in UK a Civic is 47% higher cost.

When $1300 is the separation of market price between a Fit Sport and Accord LX then the Fit is overpriced.

hungarian83 · May 2006

"When $1300 is the separation of market price between a Fit Sport and Accord LX then the Fit is overpriced."

Yeah, well no kidding. This Accord was introduced in 2003. Even the MMC cars started selling last year.
The Fit came out less then a month ago. Put it into perspective.

moparbad · May 2006

2002

December

Honda Fit series finishes 2002 as best-selling car in Japan, a first for Honda. Fit also goes on sale in Europe as "Jazz" model.

Fit/Jazz is hardly new. It is time for FMC for Fit.
Put it into perspective.

hungarian83 · May 2006

Actually, I never specified it was a new car. I just said it came out less than a month ago. I think what I said was pretty clear, but maybe I will clarify it just for you:
The Fit has not been officially on sale in the UNITED STATES for more than a month. The current Accord has been on sale in the UNITED STATES since 2003.

The Fit/Jazz has been on sale since June 2001 in Japan and January 2002 in Europe. It could have been the best selling car in Japan for a century, but that still doesn't change the fact North Americans consumers couldn't get one. Whether or not it is time for a FMC, people wanting a sub-Civic Honda car in NORTH AMERICA have not been able to get one until recently.
Hence the high demand.

So let's see.
The Accord which has been on sale since 2003 in the US might not have as much demand as the Fit which has been on sale in the US for 25 days. Some dealers have their Fits pre-ordered for months ahead. It shouldn't be surprising that the Accord can be had for a considerable discount below MSRP, while the Fit is at or above MSRP.

As I said, put it into perspective.

moparbad · May 2006

Whether or not it is time for a FMC, people wanting a sub-Civic Honda car in NORTH AMERICA have not been able to get one until recently.
Hence the high demand.

It shouldn't be surprising that the Accord can be had for a considerable discount below MSRP, while the Fit is at or above MSRP.

I agree.

Which is why I say the Fit's market price is overpriced.

backy · May 2006

Honda doesn't seem to have any trouble selling all the Fits it is shipping here. Kind of like the height adjuster issue. Some people (like me) think that is a big problem. Others don't think it's a problem at all. And others would like to have a height adjuster, but it's not a deal-breaker.

The Fit is priced higher than I would like. But then so is the Accord and every other Honda.

hungarian83 · May 2006

While I think the price of the Fit is high, I'm not sure if I would call it overpriced for right now. Maybe in a few months when demand settles down, it will be considered overpriced. However, at that point it will be much easier to get one closer (or maybe even at) invoice.

I think the market tells us what is overpriced or not, but when Honda is able to move 3,792 units in April, that's not bad. When you consider it only officially began sales on the 20th and there was very limited information on the car preceding the on-sale date, that's excellent.
If the car was truly overpriced, the demand would drop, and subsequently price would need to drop. That's not happening yet. It will eventually, but for now from a market standpoint the price is high, but not overpriced.

johnnyvj · May 2006

"Since individuals vary in their likes and dislikes, there can never be a perfect car - only a perfect car for a particular individual. To even come close to universal perfection a car would have to be both short and long, muscular and thrifty, loaded and stripped, etc, etc. It's a moot argument."

I wouldn't go as far as to call it moot. And who's talking 'universal' perfection anyway? :confuse:

Let's face it, if you're on the Honda Fit forum, you're not looking for a 'universally' perfect car, you're looking for the perfect subcompact econocar. A much smaller category and tighter spec. And within that, yeah, you can make some judgements about what is and is not close to 'perfection'.

Even so, I can't say that the Fit would be perfect if Honda addressed the shortcomings that many here have cited, but I can say that if Honda did address them, the Fit would be 'closer' to perfection. And that's a very worth goal.

Economically rewarding too, since it may get more people to buy your car. :shades:

johnnyvj · May 2006

"-It's sporty, but yet fuel thrifty and addicting to drive.
-It's little, yet huge on the inside.
-It seats 5, yet transforms into a flat cargo floor to carry most anything.
-high quality looking on the inside, yet only $16,500 (sport/auto)

If any vehicle comes close to being 2 opposites at the same time, it's the Fit.

.........but screw it, it doesn't have a dead pedal."

Yes, but you forgot one set of opposites for the Fit:

- Its a really awesome and advanced design, yet somehow Honda totally dropped the ball on some really simple, obvious things... like the dead pedal and seat height adjustment. :surprise:

carfanatic007 · May 2006

As much as I love the Fit, its giving me Fits trying to get one. I was told by the dealer on Monday that they had found my Black Fit Sport MT and it would be delivered on Wednesday (5/10). I said ok, see you on Saturday to pick up the Fit. Dealer responded ok. Today, I get home from work and he says "Driver drove to AZ to get fit, never delivered to dealer. Driver had to turn back" "Delay in Production" "Still trying to locate your Fit". This is beginning to sound like bait and switch tactics to me. Get your hopes up, then let you down, but "we have Civic's available". What do you all think?

plekto · May 2006

Only $16,500? That is no bargain compared to a NEW 2006 Accord LX Automatic for $17,799! 12 May Grand Honda Specials

$16,300 for an Accord VP. Other than the lack of MP3 compatability on the radio, its trimmed exactly like a Civic LX.

I test-drove an Accord VP with the manual transmission and it flogged the Fit - it really drove superbly for the price. A much better deal, IMO.

crimsona · May 2006

At 23k CAD after taxes for the LX (approx US Base) and 25k CAD after taxes for the Sport (both auto, minus about $1500 if manual), the Fit is supposedly way overpriced. Yet the earliest you can get a Fit in Vancouver these days is early JULY, since the late May batch have all been accounted for on waitlists (one dealership here has got a waitlist of around 50 Fits, around 2 weeks ago)

The seat height and dead pedal doesn't really matter, since the stock position worked pretty well for me, and I bought an Automatic. The benefits (eg far greater trunk compared to the 5-door Yaris and all other competitors, far more effective use of cargo space) outweighed the negatives by a longshot. I would never buy a sedan as I find it too restrictive for some of the stuff I carry around

backy · May 2006

$16,300 for an Accord VP. Other than the lack of MP3 compatability on the radio, its trimmed exactly like a Civic LX.

Not quite. The VP also lacks a rear stabilizer bar, active head restraints, Electronic Brakeforce Distribution, power mirrors, body-colored door handles, driver's seat height adjuster, 4-speaker stereo (VP has only 2 speakers), and has smaller tires and poorer fuel economy. And the VP costs $1515 more. But it is roomier than the Civic. Neither will hold as much cargo as the Fit, however, and the Fit will run circles around both of them.

Given the sparse equipment on the Accord VP, a better comparo is the base Fit, which is about $2000 less than the Accord even when the Accord is discounted below cost, as with the price you found. Even then, the Fit has features the Accord does not such as EBD, power mirrors, and a nicer stereo.

ramo · May 2006

Thanks again, crimsona! You have given me more info on my wait than my dealer has. I am now prepared for a late May or July delivery depending on my luck. The story I get is that by ordering the DX, I am in a smaller production category so that may be a problem for me. However, my Tercel keeps going, so really, this wait is probably to my financial advantage unless, I am told that my car's trade in value has decreased immensely in the 6 weeks I have been waiting. If that happens, I will be extremely assertive, more so than when I made the original deal!

plekto · May 2006

Not quite. The VP also lacks a rear stabilizer bar, active head restraints, Electronic Brakeforce Distribution, power mirrors, body-colored door handles, driver's seat height adjuster, 4-speaker stereo (VP has only 2 speakers), and has smaller tires and poorer fuel economy. And the VP costs $1515 more. But it is roomier than the Civic. Neither will hold as much cargo as the Fit, however, and the Fit will run circles around both of them.

Not true.
- Had telescoping and height adjustment on the steering wheel.
- Has locking gas door, armrest, dead-pedal, and all the other things missing from the Fit that are minor gripes.
- Has EBD and ABS. All of the newest Hondas do.
- Has a seat height adjuster. On both front seats.
- Body-colored door handles? Um... seat height adjuster is a tad more important to me... Plus, the window trim is black, so it looks nice enough.
- the two sepakers in the back are pre-wired - just drop in a pair of better than factory Kenwoods in 2 minutes. Yes - really that idiot-simple to address.
- MP3 is a gimmick. just get them to put in the Aux jack or do it yourself for $20 in parts. Few people actually uses MP3 CDs anymore given the silly low price of MP3 players.
- same exact suspension/drivetrain as an Accord LX. Which is to say, pretty close to the Civic.

Yes, it's not a Fit, but it's way more car for the same price than a new Civic.

THE PRICE I QUOTED IS FROM CARMAX. That's a legitimate dealer. They say $16,2xx - then that's what the price is - and it makes you wonder what's up with the Civic. Plug in any zip code and there's less than a $200 variation in the Carmax price.

A: The sad reality is that they dropped the Civic VP for the U.S. At $15,000 out the door, it would have shredded Fit sales. Now, the Fit is a great car, but it's just not close to what you get with the VP. Even the Civic LX is hard-pressed at $475 *more* to beat it.

That easily covers the MP3 aux cable and rear speakers, and the body-colored door handles if it really REALLY bugs you.

Now, the Fit is a nice little car. Overpriced, but nice. The real problem is, though, that the new Civic is a total looser compared the the Accord VP. And, given the choice between a bit more cargo room(filling to the ceiling on the Fit isn't legal in most states) and a bit better mpg and handling, it's a very tough decision. Small and funky is nice, but so is large and comfortable.

kagedude · May 2006

1. When I open the hood and lock in the rod, the plastic piece at the end of the rod is angled the wrong way which gives me a hard time taking it out. I would have to force and twist the end piece for it to come off. Anyone have this problem too?

2. I'm not sure if its the all-season mats that I just got but after last night's rain and when I opened the car this morning, the car's interior smelled very damp. Checked the mats and surrounding carpert area and its dry.

3. The cargo cover has about a 3 inch gap between it and the back seats. The accesory pics shows no gap. Does the back seat recline btw?

4. After breaking the car in (1200+ miles), the car "feels" a little sluggish, the 5spd seems to be a bit clicky and I keep grinding 4th gear (twice already in 3 days) and the engine seems to be a little louder.

Hopefully, its just me getting used to the car. :confuse:

backy · May 2006

Yes, the back seats recline a bit. That could account for the gap.

backy · May 2006

What are you talking about? I never said anything about the steering wheel, or armrests or dead pedals etc. I was talking about the fact that there are more differences between the Accord VP and Civic LX than just MP3 capability, which is what you had stated. If you don't believe me, check out honda.com and see for yourself that the Accord VP does not have the features I listed, including EBD, rear roll bar (the Accord LX and Civic LX have it, VP does not) and seat-height adjuster (on any seat). Do you think Honda doesn't know how their own cars are equipped?

If you want large and comfortable, you can get a Sonata V6 for about $16k with features and room that put the Accord VP to shame. Size isn't everything, to everyone.

kagedude · May 2006

Yes, the back seats recline a bit. That could account for the gap.

Oh joy. I ran out and tested and it does recline. Sorry, haven't read the manual yet. Thanks!

carfanatic007 · May 2006

Hey dude, your getting obnoxious.

plekto · May 2006

How am I being rude? Same drivetrain and MPG(though the Accord LX appears to have a bit better Cat/smog system on it), same brakes as an LX. - not as he stated. The LX-SE has the EBD, which is "only" $700 more. The LX is the same as the VP. Yeah, the Civic has EBD... I'm not seeing it as a deal-killer, though. Plus, that's engineering. I was talking about trim levels.

It's an Accord. Yeah, it's super-basic, but it's simmilar to comparing a base model Volvo S70 with a nice S40 - even in base trim, the luxury model comes equipped pretty close to the smaller car. And, yes, it's not as flashy and new looking as the new Civic, being an older model. OTOH, I can't see the rear or front on the new Civic, which bothers me greatly. Lovely gauges aside, the new Civic leaves me feeling a bit claustrophoibic, like the Pontiac G6.

I drove one and looked at it in person. You - let me guess - internet research. The VP may or may not have the same suspension as the Accord LX, though there certainly WAS a stabalizer bar back there of some sort. It definately handled rough pavement as well as a Civic. Very quick, too - nearly identical power to weight ratio.

Loved the 5-speed in it and the Civic as well - yes... both are better than the Fit. Lovely gearing on the Accord, though - was happy at 45mph around town in 3rd gear. Was at about 3000-3500rpm at highway speeds in 4th. (bout same as the Fit) - and had plenty of grunt in city traffic if I kept it in gear to 5000rpm in second. It betters the Civic, IMO, because it has loads more torque.

It sure did have seat adjusters, and while maybe not as good suspension as the new Civic, it drove and handled nicely enough. Better than anything GM makes for the price, to be sure. I don't care what information is missing from the honda.com site - in person, working off of a features list and checking them off one by one - very simmilar. Maybe 4-5 items. Since they don't sell the VP Civic in the U.S.(price would be $14,000 before delivery charges, based upon the Canadian price!), the LX is as close as I can make a comparison to.

I was just surprized at how close the VP came to the new Civic. It's a very nice car at a crazy low price. For basic transportation, it beats the Civic and probably the Fit, being the second least expensive car Honda mades for sale in the U.S., and way better optioned-out than a base Fit.

backy · May 2006

You are mixed up. Look at your original post--you were comparing the Accord VP to the Civic LX, not the Accord LX. Now you are bringing the Accord LX into the picture--"same drivetrain" etc. The Civic LX has EBD etc. The Accord VP does not. It's hard to carry on a discussion if you can't keep your own posts straight.

You say the Accord VP has a driver's seat height adjuster and rear anti-roll bar. Honda says it doesn't. You say the LX is the same as the VP. Honda says there are several differences, which I listed. Sorry, I tend to believe Honda on this one. But if you did (or do in the future) look under the Accord VP and see a rear anti-roll bar there, be sure to tell Honda so they can update their web site.

gearhead1 · May 2006

Look, an Accord no way, no how compares to a Fit. I don't care if they were priced the same.

Compare the Accord to a 4 door Civic Sedan, but not a Fit. At least that is somewhat of a apples to apples comparison despite the class difference between the two.

An Accord does not even come close to comparing to the practicality and fun factor of the Fit. It's like comparing a swiss army knife to a buck knife. Yes, they're both knifes and then the similarities stop.

If you can't see that, then just buy the Accord.

plekto · May 2006

I kind of did poke underneath the car. Even if it's not there and I *somehow* saw the wrong components, it would be a cinch to get installed.

As for the seat adjusters - worked lovely. Also had the map lights. Perhaps Honda does need to update their site. It's bigger. It has more torque. Plus, it's not claustrophobic and I can see out of the rear.

The rpoblem isn't that the Civic LX isn't a bad deal so much as they dropped the Value Package on the Civic, precisely because it comes in at the exact same price as the BASE Fit. I find that insulting, personally - why can peolpe in Canada and Mexico get the good cars and we get the overpriced yuppie-toys.

So much for Honda making economy cars anymore. At least in the U.S. Well, other than the Accord VP.

*sigh*
I guess my real gripe is that they don't offer the Fit in a Value Package. For $12K, like in Japan.

moparbad · May 2006

ummm....you might want to try turning on your brights. I find this works pretty well.

Using high beam only is possible only is rural or isolated areas without traffic.

Failure to dim high beams to oncoming traffic is not only dangerous and discourteous, it is illegal.

moparbad · May 2006

Look, an Accord no way, no how compares to a Fit. I don't care if they were priced the same.

Accord was used as Honda (Apples to Apples) to Honda comparison of Fit to illustrate that pricing shortcoming of the Fit compared to the Accord that is two classes higher.

In simpler terms. A 3000 sq. ft. home with luxury features is valued significantly higher than a 2000 sq. ft. home with no upgrades even when they are built by the same builder in the same year in same neighborhood.

At $1300 difference between Fit Sport AT and Accord LX AT, the Accord is better value.

When buying on emotion, value often is the low in importance. Works in the favor of salespeople!

backy · May 2006

The Accord is only a better value if it meets your requirements for a car. The Fit and Accord are much different kinds of cars, as has been pointed out. If you are looking for a vehicle with four wheels and 4 or more doors, there are a lot of better values out there than the Fit, or the Accord.

carfanatic007 · May 2006

Your point is invalid. If I were looking for a 4 door sedan then yes maybe the accord is a better value. Then again, I'm obviously not looking for a 4 door sedan. That, and the fact that the accord is ugly and made in the USA makes my decision easy. I think that the Civic looks much better than the accord.

moparbad · May 2006

carfanatic007 -Your point is invalid. That, and the fact that the accord is ugly and made in the USA makes my decision easy
carfantatic007- Hey dude, your getting obnoxious.

First, a basic attempt at courtesy would be an improvement.

Stating "your point is invalid" is baseless without any support. It is also rude.

Not supporting the economy of the nation within which you reside simply because it is manufactured there is offensive.

fit2007 · May 2006

After 2600 miles in a Fit in the first three days of ownership (see the New Fit Owners forum for my report) I have a few suggestions to Honda.

First, the Fit is a great car.

Secondly, however, what's interesting to me is the unfulfilled potential of the car.

What I want in the next gen Fit is the following:

1) 10-20 more HP, which I would guess could be achieved with a DOHC version of the engine (which is SOHC currently).

2) Six speed gearbox (like the forthcoming Nissan Versa)

3) Reprofile the car about two inches shorter. There's loads of headroom in this car, I'd guess you could shave 2 inches while retaining 99% of the utility. Doing so would cut weight and, more importantly, cut drag at high speeds.

The platform is already incredibly stable and handles very well.

I'd love to see, based on the changes above, a Fit Si or even a Fit SiR/FR-X (fully develop the engine to 150hp... wheee). The Fit would own, completely and totally, the tuner market. A Fit Si would be a fantastic low-cost combination of performance and utility.

As a friend of mine said, it's clear that the Fit is the spiritual successor to the early-90s Civic models. Hopefully Honda will make it all that it could be.

hungarian83 · May 2006

You could still achieve 10-20 more HP without making it a DOHC. The main reason for the SOHC is that the L-series was designed initially for use in the L13A and then L12A i-DSI engines. The two spark plugs per cylinder meant that only a single camshaft would fit. The VTEC L15A came later and still utilized the SOHC. Unless they find a way to have two spark plugs and a DOHC (which I have heard is practically impossible), it will remain an SOHC.

People think the SOHC is automatically inferior to the DOHC, but look at the engine in the new Civic (R18). It is very clean, has a good boost in power from the previous generation, and has good fuel economy...it utilizes a SOHC.

The next generation Fit will undoubtedly have i-VTEC, which should be able to boost HP 10-20, but I think they should keep the HP the same and focus on fuel economy and efficiency.

raychuang00 · May 2006

1. When the body style changes, make sure it still has the center-mounted fuel tank and a body size almost identical to that of the current car (in deference to European and Japanese market where small physical car size is a must). Make sure the body style allows for excellent visibility all around (rear three quarter visibility is a problem with the current model).

2. Keep the Magic Seat system for the back seats.

3. Allow height adjustment for the driver seat.

4. Allow adjust of the steering wheel (both height and reach).

5. Put in a dead pedal for the left foot.

6. Improve the instrument panel so it has a true engine water temperature gauge.

7. Keep the stereo and climate controls as simple as possible, though offer an automatic climate control system at a reasonable price (like US$700 or under).

8. Offer decent engines, such as an improved 1.4-liter i-DSI engine rated at 89 bhp and a new SOHC i-VTEC 1.5-liter engine rated at 117-120 bhp.

9. Offer six-speed manual and CVT automatic transmssion options, the latter with CVT-7 "gear" control.

sfinster · May 2006

I've 127 posts here, and nobody has mentioned the two items that bug me the most.

1) Fit's rear wiper. When it's on, it goes at a distractingly fast clip. I find that I am really missing the intermittent wiper on my van.

2) While I would use the dead pedal if it were there, my left foot doesn't have nearly as much trouble deciding where to be as my right foot does. When I put on the cruise and want to pull my right foot back, not only is there an angled wall at the seat support, but the floor feels slanted. My husband's 2000 CR-V is the same way. If it's there for crash integrity, ok, but otherwise it needs to be addressed.

That said, I LOVE my Fit. I'm getting 36-37 mpg overall (5MT Sport). It has less road/engine noise than the other cars I test drove (Civic, Mazda3i, Corolla, Yaris). WAY more comfortable driver's seat than the Corolla. Incredibly easy to park. I miss the armrest less than my passengers do.

As to the value of the Fit: when I outfitted a Corolla, Yaris, or Civic with the same features, they all came out considerably more expensive. And I *wanted* a little, zippy car. No way did I want an Accord... might as well keep driving my minivan at those proportions!

johnnyvj · May 2006

Its starting to look like, as marvelous as the Fit is, I'll be holding off for a few months, in hopes of a mid-model year or '08 model year refresh that may bring the following to the Fit:

- dead pedal
- center armrest
- seat height adjustment
- the beige interior offered with other Fit Sport exterior colors than just (boring) white

It may be that I'll be waiting in vain, and that none of the above will happen, ever. If that's the case, oh well, maybe I'll check out the Nissan Versa or something else.

Don't get me wrong, the Fit is still my front-runner and a VERY good car, I just wish Honda had nailed a few more of the ergonomic and color-choice details.

Only time will tell if they 'finish the job' in the future. :confuse:

On an additional wishlist note, it'd be so incredibly awesome if a refresh of the Fit stole the Mazda 2's idea of removable side bolsters on the rear seatbacks... with such an arrangement, the rear seat might be able to FOLD FLAT or close, and then you'd have a 'super-refresh mode'/bed.

How AWESOME would that be? :surprise: :surprise: :surprise:

hungarian83 · May 2006

Dead pedal:
-Won't happen on this generation. It's part of the design of the car, and it is this way on all Fit/Jazzes worldwide. It seems to be the lack of space from the wheel well. From what I have seen on cars, pedals spaced close together are often caused by a short-nose design in which the wheel well intrudes into the passenger space.

Seat height adjustment:
-Standard in certain other markets, not sure why they don't have it in North America

Center armrest:
-Accessory in certain other markets, not sure why they don't have it in North America. However, unlike the seat-height adjustment issue, this one probably is not that difficult to resolve. Aftermarket ones are available, or if you try hard enough you can probably get one from Honda in a European country.

aaykay · May 2006

If I am not mistaken, there were a couple of things you probably missed:

Accord has 4-wheel disc brakes while you need to step upto the Civic EX or the Civic Si to get the same. Even in the EX, the discs are smaller and cheaper.

The more expensive 4-wheel independent double-wishbone suspension...more along the lines of what the Acura TL, Acura TSX and the Acura RL are equipped with. The one good thing is that at least the Civic comes with a 4-wheel independent suspension (albeit a cheaper version than the Accord), unlike the Fit which comes with a cheap non-independent Torsion beam in the rear....Honda has really economised there !!

A more advanced and larger i-VTEC DOHC Honda engine, while the Civic has the smaller and cheaper SOHC engine. Note: The Civic Si has a Honda i-VTEC DOHC engine.

The Accord is higher up in the Honda pecking order for a reason. Let us not look up a quick spec sheet and come up with some nick-knacks to "prove" a vehicle that is lower down in their line-up is somehow magically the equal of the higher-end product. Structurally and otherwise, the Accord is a superior product.

Disclaimer: I own a 2005 Honda Odyssey and none of the above products.

dudleyr · May 2006

Only lx-se and above have rear disks.

backy · May 2006

As long as the brakes on the Fit stop the car well (which they do), the suspension works well (which it does), and the engine runs well (which it does), I could care less whether they are disc or drum, wishbone or not, iVTEC DOHC or not.

Let us not look up a list of technological features and acronyms to prove that a vehicle is better than another. The proof is in the driving.

Anyway, I have no doubt that the Accord is overall a superior product than the Fit. It should be, for what it costs. But the Fit is superior to the Accord in a number of important ways, and that is why you see people buying Sport Fits at $16k instead of Accords.

johnnyvj · May 2006

When did this become an 'Accord vs Fit' thread? :surprise:

I know you can make some kind of oblique rationale as to why hijacking this thread is okay, but really, if you guys are going to go on and on about it, you should start a new thread.

Not being rude, just real. :shades:

backy · May 2006

You are absolutely right. Let's keep the "vs." discussions out of this.

backy, "Addressing the Fit's shortcomings" #100, 12 May 2006 12:00 pm

moparbad · May 2006

The pricing of the Fit is a shortcoming. Fit pricing is too high.

Has not changed since May 12th.

$$$$ Re: Addressing the Fit's shortcomings [backy] by moparbad

Unfortunately, Accord market pricing is much too comparable to Fit market pricing. :surprise:

backy · May 2006

Fit pricing is too high? Compared to other cars in its class, with comparable equipment, the Fit is priced pretty well.

The Fit is an all-new model in the U.S. with years of pent-up demand and a small supply. What did you expect, that dealers would give them away? The Accord is a older design and is readily available, with hundreds of thousands of units sold each year. The Accord VP is the least popular Accord model because it lacks features people expect in a mid-sized family car. And you wonder why the Fit sells for MSRP and the Accord VP sells at a large discount? I don't.

As for the Accord, let me know where I can get an Accord with the cargo-hauling versatility of the Fit, or its fuel economy, or its handling. I guess we could say those are the Accord's shortcomings, in comparison to the Fit.

plekto · May 2006

I posted the fact a couple of weeks ago that the VP is not identical, but very simmilar to the level of trim in the Civic LX. It's definately a small notch above the Fit, with map lights, adjustable seats, telescoping steering wheel, armrest, dual mirrors on the visors, much better A/C, and so on...

Plus, tons more power. It's a way bigger engine. The manual transmission is superb, and it gets about 30mpg in mixed driving. Yeah, not what the Fit or Civic get, but it's a very very nice car. For roughly the same price.

It can be had for ~16,000 all over the U.S. All it's missing are two rear speakers, but those are pre-wired - just buy some Kenwood 6*9s and screw in in 2 minutes.

So, yes, the Fit is very overpriced. It's even more than the Civic Value Package(which they don't sell in the U.S., but isn't hard to figure out and convert from Euros) True, the Sport has a the body kit and fog lights and alloys, but 90% of people I know don't care about alloys or fog lights - they are minor things compared to a better engine and more space.

hungarian83 · May 2006

"So, yes, the Fit is very overpriced."
No, the Fit is not overpriced. The price might be high to you, but it is not overpriced. In a few months, when supply meets (or exceeds) demand, the price will be adjusted accordingly with dealers offering prices less than MSRP, etc. If it was overpriced, people wouldn't be buying them left and right, and they would be sitting on dealer lots. Dealers are actually charging premiums on this car. If it was overpriced, they couldn't do that and sell the cars.

"It's even more than the Civic Value Package(which they don't sell in the U.S., but isn't hard to figure out and convert from Euros)"
What are you talking about?
Two things...
1. Name a Euro-zone country (actually name any European country) that has a Civic Value Package.
2. You can't even compare prices between countries, let alone continents. There are destination fees, import taxes, registration, everything.
A Jazz Sport 5MT in Germany costs the equivalent of US$21,700 and that's with only the L13A engine. Add $1000 for CVT.
The base Civic in Germany costs over US$20,000. And that's for a car with a 1.4L engine that does 0-62mph in 14.6 seconds. Doesn't even have wheel covers...just the bare steel wheels. To me, $20k for a base Civic with the smallest engine and a manual transmission is quite a bit above the price of a US-market Fit Sport 5AT.
The top end Civic (2.2i-CTDi Executive) is over $30,000. Do I need to go on?

moparbad · May 2006

How do you define overpriced?
What does overpriced mean to you?

Overpriced = too costly for the value.
Simply because people are willing to pay a a given price does not mean that the item is not overpriced.

VW New Beetle sold for MSRP and higher. Chrysler PT Cruiser sold for MSRP and higher. Pontiac Fiero sold for MSRP and higher.

There is a saying "a fool and his money are soon parted".

johnnyvj · May 2006

*Waits patiently for the Accord Special Pricing sales incentive to expire on 5/31 so that this thread can become un-hijacked*

backy · May 2006

A product that is priced too high for the value received will not sell very well. OTOH, the Fit is selling extremely well, indicating that it is priced appropriately for the market, at this time.

A better example of "overpriced" is the case of the 2006 Accent. When it was introduced, its price was $15,400 for a model with power package and automatic--in other words, with the kind of equipment many people want. Hyundai dealers complained to HMA that the price was too high--it's even higher than the price of the base Fit! The cars were not selling well. HMA agreed and put a $1000 rebate on the car. If and when the sales of the Fit drop off and cars start sitting in dealer lots, you will see prices drop. Until then, it is priced right for current market conditions. Is it priced higher than I would like it to be? Sure! I'd like to buy a base Fit AT for $12,000. But that is an unrealistic expectation based on Honda's costs and market dynamics.

johnnyvj · May 2006

Hey guys, lookee... a brand-new shiny Accord vs Fit thread, created just for YOU!

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0ca5ae/0

:shades:

hungarian83 · May 2006

"How do you define overpriced?
What does overpriced mean to you?"

The market determines whether something is overpriced or not. In that sense, it is not a subjective term like "the price is too high".

You might think the price of product X is too high at $1000. However, if demand greatly exceeds supply, a price of $1500 could be appropriate. When demand decreases, $1500 might indeed be considered overpriced and the price should drop.

That being said, the Fit may be considered (by the market) to be overpriced in a few months. That will be at the point where demand drops to a level that the price will need to drop accordingly. However, demand is high across the US now, and that influences the price. You might think the price is too high and that's your opinion, but that doesn't mean it is actually overpriced...the market decides that.

There is a saying "a fool and his money are soon parted".
...and there is also a saying called "supply and demand".

Addressing the Fit's shortcomings

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