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Cars You Hate/Cars You Would Kill

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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    the Honda Uglyment!.. I mean Element... Box on wheels.. Rubbermaid must be in the loop.. Scion Xb, refrigerator on wheels.. Xa... ugh....
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    nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    The Lincoln Zephyr.
    The Cadillac STS V-6! The Econillac.
    The Lexus IS.
    The Mercedes G-500
    Everything Saturn makes.
    Everything Pontiac Makes
    Everything Buick makes.
    GMC light trucks.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Not GMC light trucks. They are slightly better looking than Chevy trucks since 2002.

    I vote to kill the Element. It carries ugly past the Aztek into a realm no vehicle should go. At least the ugly little Xb has a cute factor about it.
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    nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "Not GMC light trucks. They are slightly better looking than Chevy trucks since 2002."

    Ok, gagrice - riddle me this - what purpose do they serve other than the arguable aesthetic value? IMO, GMC should be shut down on a consumer basis, and be the truck over 1 Ton capacity division of GM only. Chevy can put out the light trucks, and maybe then, they would outsell the F-150 for once in their life! It's a nice claim, to be the best selling truck in America, which on a combined basis, they are. But splitting the sales between GMC and Chevy, they never are.

    GM needs to shutter divisions and focus more on each remaining brand to make them well, and make them right. 3 Divisions would be enough.......
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    bigo08bigo08 Member Posts: 102
    The Lincoln Zephyr.

    I personally think the Zephyr is one of the nicest cars i have seen in a while
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    nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I'm all for killing the Zephyr, big0. I think it's way underdeserving of the Lincoln name. I think Bill Ford has just about killed all of Lincoln already.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    GM needs to shutter divisions and focus more on each remaining brand

    I consider them one truck anyway. I looked at both and really did not like the looks of the Chevy or GMC. They were just a lot better looking than the Fodges. I guess I have to live with ugly trucks from now on. If Chevy would go back to the 2000 look it would make me happier and they could kill the GMC.
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    nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    You're livin' in the past, gag...... :P
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    anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I'd keep Saturn and drop Saab. If both brands really end up being Opel outlets, it would be redundant. And since Opel is seen as a non-lux brand, I could see the Saturn lineup adapting better than the entry-lux Saab brand.

    I'd also add Mercury, and I agree with you that the Zephyr brings down the status of the Linclon brand (whatever is left of that staus, aside from the Navigator)
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    grabowskygrabowsky Member Posts: 74
    I saw a new Zephyr on the road today. It would be a nice looking car if it were at least midsize. Even better as a full. The proportions as it is just don't look right for a small car. Why does FoMoCo even bother with Lincoln anymore? Ditto Mercury. They haven't made any real effort with either of those divisions since the 70s. Even Chrysler finally got with it on Plymouth. And GM managed to kill olds. Of course now they're trying to fit Saturn into Olds slot. I swear the people running that company are retarded. I bet out of the limelight they all wear helmets!
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    derrado1derrado1 Member Posts: 194
    What cars do you hate the most out of every make? I suppose that's an interesting question and could spark some more interest in the topic. Just a few of mine:

    Saturn - ION. Really, the thing needs to go. Saturn's in the middle of a renaissance and it needs to get as far away from this travesty as possible.

    Pontiac - Torrent. A nice looking sport-ute, but if GM isn't bluffing and they really want to turn Pontiac around and make it more of a niche player, they need to stop appeasing the dealers and kill this misfit, bastardised rebadge.

    Buick - Rainier. The Rendezvous at least is unique and somewhat out of the box. The Rainier? A simple dealer-special rebadge. Ditto the Terraza, although at least it has a decent interior and offers some sort of purpose.

    Saab - 9-7x. I suppose this is pretty much everybody's answer for Saab. And it should be. A rubbish idea for an ailing company that just needs to be bought or cut loose. The US is Saab's worst market and going more mainstream isn't going to help it any faster.

    Mazda - B-Series and Tribute. Zoom-zoom, anyone? The Tribute had its time and while it is a decent enough SUV, it's looking increasingly old-hat. And for so few sales, the B-Series has no redeemable qualities whatsoever. It's a disgrace that the MZ3, MZ6 and the rest of the Mazda range has to share the showroom floor with it.
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    john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    "Saturn - ION. Really, the thing needs to go. Saturn's in the middle of a renaissance and it needs to get as far away from this travesty as possible."

    I particularly dislike the Ion "coupe". Terrible styling, esp. compared with the last gen coupe.

    The 4-door coupe concept should probably go overall I think. The Mazda RX-8 kinda pulls it off, but I think its sales would be more or less the same if it were a real coupe...
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    bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    ....SUV, the Element, and the Aztech. I'd change the name of the xB to "Honda Element liner" or Mini-Cooper shipping crate."
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    nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    A Ranier today, as it passed me on the freeway.... I remarked to my wife - that's not a bad looking Trailblazer from Buick. I wonder what the Cadillac version will be called?
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    derrado1derrado1 Member Posts: 194
    Every one is very cynical when it comes to GM, but I suppose they deserve it after one too many foolish, misguided errors of judgement.

    I have high hopes for Cadillac, though, and I really think GM does too. It's experiencing a real renaissance and there's really no chance of GM ruining it anytime soon, if they have any brains. Which they do. They just choose to ignore them sometimes.
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    nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Anything they make, doesn't cut it in this market, IMO.....
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    210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    You may find it hard to believe, but Suzuki is on a tear.

    Sales for the first 6 months of 2006 totaled just under 57,000 units, up 36% from the same period in 2005.

    Of course, for comparison, Subaru (hardly a sales leader) sold 96,000+ units.
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    deserth8rdeserth8r Member Posts: 45
    seriously, who in their right mind would take a 60k+ SUV offroad, which is what SUVs originally were designed for. I own a ford ranger, and go 4 wheeling all of the time, but there is no way I would do it with an expensive SUV, it just doesnt make sense
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    john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    The end of "Cars" did a hilarious send-up of this... :)
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    nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    In principal, I agree with you. However, I have been driving Lincoln Navigators and Mercury Mountaineers since 96 - and I have taken them off road all the time. It's odd, it looks odd, and I get a lot of head shakes when I'm out there, but I do it, and they do great! Nothing like blazing new trails in a Navigator!
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    odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    But scape, I did notice that everyone who is putting the Element and Xb on the Box on Wheels pedastal, is Forgetting the Jeep Wrangler as a Box also. If both Honda and Toyota turned around and made both the Element and Xb a true Convertable then I bet people wouldn't mind them as much. I test drove a xB and found it pretty decent and Very roomy. The only reason the Wrangler doesn't get the Box on wheels tag is because it has been around longer than God. I would love to see the same people that are vieing to kill the xB and Element add the Wrangler to the list, they would end up eating jelly donuts in Tahiti with Biggie Smalls and Elvis.

    Odie
    Odie's Carspace
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    nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    of either the Element or the ScionBox, but I see where they have their place. Just not in my fleet.

    I'd still rather kill the PT Cruiser now. Enough, already.
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    grabowskygrabowsky Member Posts: 74
    Enough already of what? :confuse:
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    nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Enough of the PT. That's all. Getting tired of seeing it with no updates.
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    derrado1derrado1 Member Posts: 194
    Where exactly is it going to go from here, anyway? It's still riding on the Neon platform and there's not much you can do with the styling.

    However, the PT's still pulling in good sales records. Quite a situation DCX has there.
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    kronykrony Member Posts: 110
    Amen to that. I'm 32 and I remembner the old Zepher and how bad it sucked... That's a model name that never should have been revived, only way to be worse is re-badge it as a Pinto or Granada...
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Are you talking about the old late 1970s Mercury Zephyr? That car was the same thing as a Ford Fairmont. It had that super-stupid turn signal stalk mounted horn that sounded like a dying duck.

    The original Zephyr was the streamlined 1936 Lincoln Zephyr with a small V-12. It was a revolutionary design at the time.
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    derrado1derrado1 Member Posts: 194
    Was just at buick.com... they have one goofy line-up at the moment.
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    kronykrony Member Posts: 110
    So, who is Buick trying to sell cars to? Young golfers (i.e. Tiger Woods)?
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    derrado1derrado1 Member Posts: 194
    Alright guys, what do you think is the most pathetic rebadge out there? I'm not talking different sheetmetal (eg Impala/LaCrosse), but just straight-out grille-swapping, different taillights rebadging.

    The nominees are:
    Buick Rainier
    Buick Terraza
    Chrysler Aspen
    GMC Canyon
    GMC Savana
    GMC Sierra
    GMC Yukon
    Hyundai Entourage
    Infiniti QX56
    Isuzu I-Series
    Isuzu Ascender
    Lincoln Mark LT
    Mercury Grand Marquis
    Mercury Mariner
    Mercury Milan
    Mercury Montego
    Mercury Monterey
    Mercury Mountaineer
    Mitsubishi Raider
    Pontiac G5
    Pontiac Montana SV6
    Pontiac Torrent
    Saturn Relay

    IMHO, I find the Terraza and Rainier to be pretty pathetic; the Terraza has quite a few refinements over an Uplander but it still looks much similar. The Rainier looks nice on the outside, but it still has a bargain basement GMT-360 interior which makes it just a bit appauling.

    The Aspen is unacceptable in that it neither has visual shock factor (that is, Escalade-rivalling bling), nor a decent interior for a luxury off-roader.

    Scary thing is, I don't mind GMC's duplicates and I like the idea of the brand, especially now that they're differentiating their models a bit more (the Envoy was a good first step; totally different interior, too). Mercury also fails to offend me because some of their models are really nice-looking (Mountaineer, Mariner) or have a valid purpose (most Crown Vics go to fleets, so there's the Grand Marquis), or are just too boring to get noticed (Montego)

    Isuzu is on its last legs and Mitsubishi doesn't sell enough Raiders, nor Saturn with Relays, to get noticed. The Mark LT is odd but I can somewhat see its appeal (gimme an Escalade EXT though)

    The Entourage I suppose does go for a different character, and IIRC has different features. In that respect, it reminds me of the Caravan/Town & Country (which I didn't add on the list because they've been around for ages)

    So now, we reach Pontiac. Oh dear me. This comes from quite the Pontiac fan. I tried to give the new arrivals a chance. But it's just shameful.

    The G5 is rubbish. It's a Cobalt coupe. Even the headlights look the same! Another example of GM's ridiculous fear of their dealers. If the G5 is still around when Buick, Pontiac and GMC dealers start moving in together, I'll be very annoyed. The Torrent has a few different bits, and looks better than an Equinox, but it's still just a shameless rebadge to appease the dealers. The Montana was always an ok minivan, but it's going now so it doesn't matter if it wasn't.

    So, in my opinion, the winner of Most Pathetic Rebadge is the Pontiac G5 (with the Mercury Monterey a close second)

    Your opinions? Your votes?
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    mirde98mirde98 Member Posts: 95
    Dear Santa:
    In alphabetical order here is my list. I want you to bring me for Xmas a shotgun so i can kill:

    -Acura RSX (insult to the Integra)
    -BMW X3
    -Buick (all)
    -Chevrolet Cobalt, Colorado, Equinox, HHR, Monte Carlo and Uplander.
    -Chrysler Crossfire, Pacifica, T&C and most of all SEBRING's I HATE SEBRING'S!
    -Dodge Caliber, base Charger and Magnum (love the HEMI versions), Durango, Dakota, Stratus!!! (see above Chrysler Sebring).
    -All Ford's (except Mustang and F-150)
    -Honda Ridgeline, Pilot and Civic (sedan only)
    -All Hummer's
    -Hyundai's new style theme based on Toyota and Honda's, Entourage.
    -Infiniti's FX and QX56
    -Isuzu (All)
    -Jaguar X-Type
    -Jeep Commander and Grand Cherokee(I would slice the troath of whoever created the Commander..ok i feel better now)
    -Kia Amanti, Sportage
    -Land Rover LR3
    -Lexus ES, GX and LX series.
    -Lincoln (ALL)
    -Mazda B Series, Tribute, MPV.
    -Mercedes Benz GL and R Class
    -Mercury (ALL)
    -Mitsubishi Raider
    -Nissan Armada, Murano, Sentra and i really really really wanna kill whoever created the Quest!!! Please!!
    -Pontiac (ALL) Especially the Torrent, i will double kill the Torrent/Equinox.
    -Porsche Cayenne
    -Saab 9-2x and 9-7x
    -Saturn (ALL) I do mean ALL!!!
    -Scion xA and xB
    -Subaru Tribeca and Subaru's new corporate nose grill.
    -Suzuki Verona
    -Toyota FJ Cruiser, Matrix, Land Cruiser, Prius, Sienna and Yaris.
    -VW Touareg
    -Volvo XC70 and S80

    Im a very reasonable and simple guy and i've been good this year all i ask is for simple, handsome, timeless designs along with reliability and good fuel economy. Please no more Toyo-ndas and their me-too competitors. Classy handsome designs can be unique too instead of crown blenders.

    Thanks Santa!
    Mr :P
    Orlando, FL
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    anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Wow, take away some of the discontinued offerings and you just wiped out about half the makes and models on the market today... :lol:
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    the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    Awww... but I wish GM had redesigned the Astro Van instead of getting rid of it. We had one while I was growing up. We replaced an Aerostar with it and it turned out to be the best family vehicle we ever owned... Drove it to over 170K with very little problems. My mom sold it for POS Jeep Grand Cherokee because all us kids had moved out by then and she felt she didn't need a people hauler anymore.

    Large enough to haul 8 people, and the cargo space to haul all the luggage, a stout motor to pull all that while still maintaining decent gas mileage and yes it drove like a truck, but at least it was nimble enough to with it's short over-hangs to manuver around. Smaller than a Suburban, but still held as many people, got better mileage and while not looking very attrative (what van does), it was at least vehicle that got the job done with no pop and circumstance.... It would be great if GM had the brains to come out with something like that again....
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    the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    here's one that I'll get flamed for.... the Hummer H2. Maybe even the whole Hummer brand except for military use. the H3 ain't bad, at least it's smaller than the behemouth H2, but I still think it's an expensive waste of money. The H2 is a waste of gas, money and just vehicle that says "look at me!, I'm able to waste 50K on a vehicle that will never see the other side of pavement!" Anyway, my personal opinion is that the vehicle is a waste...

    The H1 makes for a great miltary vehicle, but doesn't belong on civilian roads....
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    the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    Here's a thought.... why don't automakers drop anything that is badge engineered. The Saab Trailblazer, the Chevy Relay (that whole line of van needs to die a quick death so GM can design something else.), Pontiac Malibu, Lincoln Fusion, Mazda Ranger, Mercury Crown Vic, Chrysler Caravan, Ford Mark LT (this is one of the worst in my opinion - barely even a grill change and some tailgate dressing with the extension of the tailights. Same headlights, same tailights, same door handles, same body lines, same hood, same fenders basically the same as a gussied F-150). Get rid of the Ford Navigator like they did with the Aviator.

    Same goes for the Escalade series. At least however GM had the sense to give them a unique front end. For that matter why have GM and Chevy trucks? I mean I love Chevy trucks, but why the GM and Chevy versions? There again the only difference is in the badging and the grills. Sure their are different option's available depending on which brand you choose, but I haven't done enough research to know how much a difference in the options.

    Notice a trend here? Only the domestics see fit to "badge" engineer. At least the imports have the sense to make notable changes. Like the difference between the Acura TL and the Honda Accord. Or the Toyota Camry and the Lexus ES 300. Or the Infiniti G35 and the Nissan Maxima. I will wager that the Nissan 350Z and the Infiniti version look strikingly similar.

    Anyway.... there's my rant.
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