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Changes You'd Like To See in the Toyota Camry Hybrid

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    PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Good catch! OK, so the mind gets a bit foggy after a while! :P

    Since this is the smaller of the two, I'll merge this one into the other.

    Fasten your seatbelts and keep your hands and arms inside the car please!
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    terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    **Consults his Attorney about whip-lash caused by PF Flyer.**

    :P
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    acco20acco20 Member Posts: 211
    attorney answer,with the handle "P F FLYER", you should have expected some speed..case dismissed........
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    PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Come on... I gave you the standard Disneyland warning about the ride!

    I'm certain you were all tall enough :P
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    terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    Speed? :surprise:

    I have a feeling that PF Flyer isn't much different from my childhood one, out back of the garage, not capable of speed...lots of rusty wheels! :P
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    erniea1erniea1 Member Posts: 9
    Why doesn't the Hybrid have a towing package and roof rack (shouldn't energy conscious people be able to take their bikes along?).
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    terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    "Why doesn't the Hybrid have a towing package and roof rack (shouldn't energy conscious people be able to take their bikes along?").

    No. :P

    Toyota Prius Bike Rack® with Golf Bag Carrier, Ski Rack, Snowboard Rack and Luggage Rack Options. 2004+ CLICK HERE FOR INFO.
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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Why doesn't the Hybrid have a towing package and roof rack (shouldn't energy conscious people be able to take their bikes along?)."

    The TCH is designed for fuel efficiency. This is counterintuitive to towing. If you want to tow, get the V6.
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    terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    Well some of us, we just believe we can have efficiency and the ability to tow. ;)
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    gc77584gc77584 Member Posts: 65
    I don't know how they'd do it, but somehow, some way, make it so the huge dash doesn't absorb (and radiate) 1000 degrees of southern sun! Something about the angle of the windshield and the size of the dash... it's like sitting in front of an oven when I sit in the driver's seat and drive around in Houston. The dash is so hot I can barely touch it. Tint won't help since windshield tint is illegal. I never had this problem in my '98 Camry :cry:
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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Well some of us, we just believe we can have efficiency and the ability to tow."

    I would be interested in knowing how you believe you can reconcile these two concepts - efficiency and towing.

    To me, the most efficient tow vehicle is a large truck or SUV. It is designed for towing, and can be ordered with heavy duty towing packages. It can go all day long while towing and not have any problems.

    With a hybrid, the entire system is not designed to tow, and if the owner does tow, it is putting an extra stress on the vehicle that it was not designed to perform. Car makers list tow capabilities for hybrids in order to draw customers, but the vehicle is not designed with that in mind.

    On the other hand, if high MPG is desired, the hybrid is good, and the SUV/truck not so good.

    It is a matter of design and function.
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    terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    Well, with that attitude, none of the great advances in the auto industry, or anywhere else, would have been made. ;)
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    lvwlvw Member Posts: 14
    The point, at least for me, is that I don't want to have both the TCH and a dedicated tow vehicle. For me, as for most, any towing needs are both infrequent and modest. Much more sensible, overall, to have a trailer hitch on the TCH, and a modest towing capability. (Actually, the main reason I'd like a hitch is to use a bicycle carrier, currently contraindicated by the owner's manual. I don't believe that could be a problem, but Toyota is being super-cautious...)
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    terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    Can you spell "L-A-W-Y-E-R" :confuse:

    Of course they are overly cautious. We live in a over-litigious world. Especially in North America.

    That said, exceeding their weight limits, by even 25% shouldn't present a problem at all. Exceeding them by double, a few times per year, and for short distances, shouldn't either. ;)
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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Well, with that attitude, none of the great advances in the auto industry, or anywhere else, would have been made. "

    Well, I have to disagree. Physics (at least practical physics) isn't about to change. It's a matter of weight, HP, and torque.
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    terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    Hmmm, I wonder how many formerly "accepted" rules of physics have been overturned, re-thought, in the last 100 years?

    Wasn't there this Einstein guy? :P

    You know what I meant. Quit being such a sitck in the mud, to validate your comments. This is an internet board, for goodness sakes!
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    karusokaruso Member Posts: 2
    I wish you could see my 2007 Camry Hybrid. It is the Barcelona Red with 17 inch after market tires and rims. I had Toyota install the imitation wood grain. I will have to have the center console piece replaced as it was the wrong piece and the correct piece is not supposed to be available until November or December. I have had my windows tinted since I traded in my 2003 Lincoln LS for the TCH. I have always gone to a reputable dealer like ZieBart to have my windows tinted, and have NEVER had bubbles. You should try Ziebart.

    I use my orignal wheels and tires during the winter months, and the after market rims and tires during the summer months.

    Check out this option from BlingLights.Com. This is what I am ordering in place of the fog lights.

    http://www.blinglights.com/shopbling/store/comersus_listCategoriesAndProducts.as- p?idCategory=56&curPage=2
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    terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    It doesn't say where those lights go...... :(
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    moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Live in a foggy area? Not much need for fog lights in the Midwest.
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    erniea1erniea1 Member Posts: 9
    Good point. When I purchased the TCH, it was on condition that they install the towing kit and roof rack that I purchase">. I found both on the net, ordered them and the dealer installed them "for free". Now I have a good towing package for bikes, etc. and the TCH still works fine and has a high MPG. Great! :)
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    wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    What rims did you go with?
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    terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    Try reading the copy or looking at the picture, and you tell me if it says they are fog lamps...... :P
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    aliminalimin Member Posts: 80
    I live in the midwest, too, and have fog lights on my 05 Sequoia. Along the Mississippi River where I live in Minnesota, we do get some fog, so they are used. And they're very helpful finding the road's fog line (the solid white stripe between the roadway and road shoulder) especially when driving in heavy rain. Somewhat helpful in snow, too. I'd like to add a set to my TCH, so I'll be interested in others who installed the after market ones.
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    wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    Just about all my cars and SUV's over the past 10 years have had fog (or driving) lights. I've found the TCH lights to be poor, but in retrospect I think they simply are not up to the standard I'm used to as when I drove with fog loghts on (all the time) In the past I could see the areas close to the car to the sides of the road as well as out front with my headlights. The TCH lights just don't illuminate all the areas I like to see when I drive.
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    aliminalimin Member Posts: 80
    Perhaps the high beam setting should include low beam, too.
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    gampagampa Member Posts: 78
    Karuso,

    Any way you can take a picture of those fog light installed and post it... sounds like a good thing.

    Gampa
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    sallyspalsallyspal Member Posts: 31
    Am I mistaken, or does it seem as if this TCH forum is running out of gas (sorry, no pun intented)? No one has posted about their TCH in two days and many of these threads have gotten quite stale. Are we just in a lull now, or have we said all that there is to say about our cars? :confuse:
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    PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Blame it on holiday stress! :P

    Everyone out getting those last minute gifts!
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    wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    Yea, ever sence I quit the "other" forum I've been disappointed that this one is slowing down. However when I look back at the "other" forum I see most of the new comments are just new owners rehashing the same information they've already discussed and they are too lazy to go back and see old comments. It also seems many of the questions are really just asking for information that in the owners manual. many times if it is a "new" topic it's more of a personal issue and it ends up with someone getting called an @$$%hole and then a few threads back and forward to support that claim. Oh well, don't need to bash them anymore.

    I like that Edmunds has an orderly way to track the issues by topic, but that does probably reduce the current activity.

    Although I would like to see more updates from older posters as we get more miles. I've added a few on the posts to newer comments as I pass milestones. I've just passed 17,500 miles since May 5th and while it is getting colder and mpg's are tough to get I'm averaging 39.06 (and dropping). Hopefully spring will be here soon.
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    sallyspalsallyspal Member Posts: 31
    I guess we are all saving so much money on gas that we are all able to shop longer!
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    gillesmtlgillesmtl Member Posts: 55
    For me, my ADSL modem quit and it took a few days to be back online. Year-end deadlines kept me busy, etc.

    But the main point is : Aside from some fit and finish issues, the first batch of TCH (Japan-made) is free from problems.

    Some design weaknesses have been typical for Toyota Camrys and buyers actually expect them, so I seem to be the only one complaining about the undersprung and underdamped rear suspension, for instance.

    We had another evening of ice-covered roads and, Lo and behold, does that traction control work smoothly and efficiently. It does tolerate some slipping below 5 mph, which will be required to get out of a snow bank.

    Merry Christmas to all !
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    wingmanwingman Member Posts: 19
    What are those few steps?
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    gandyfiregandyfire Member Posts: 36
    I think the holidays have kept most of the posters busy. Even on the "other forum" most of the early posters seldom post anything now. Guess the newness has worn off and most questions have been answered.

    I seldom am on here anymore since they created all the catagories and I think that goes for most people on here.

    I only have 4000 miles since July 18th. We dont take the TCH on short trips (<5 miles). Avg FE is 40.6 with most days in December well up into the 70's
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    wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    We dont take the TCH on short trips (). Avg FE is 40.6 with most days in December well up into the 70's

    While I can still get close to 40 on many of my "medium" trips locally I have seen my FE drop in colder weather on the long trips. However I still take my TCH on trips to town (4 to 5 miles) as I am able to get 37 to 37 mpg and that beats the 17 I get on the ICE only 4Runner. After 17,500 miles, the two recent "bad" trip tanks has brought my overall below just 39.

    I'm still debating getting past the facination of high FE and just driving this thing like I used to drive. The cold trips to Charleston over the holidays leads me to believe I can still get 35 to 36 mph without driving at or below the speed limit
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    dirtcheapjohndirtcheapjohn Member Posts: 1
    I love my TCH and have over 15K miles, my FE avg is around 38 with a best of 44.3mpg (this included some 75mph freeway but most around 60mph with about 10% in town.) I notice the car gets less mpg in the rain and on short trips, especially in cold weather, I also noticed I get better mpg with premium fuel compared to reg. And I get many positive comments on the new 2007 body, the TCH is very stylish for the price.

    Anyway... I live in the Seattle area and it's been raining since October... The only complaint I have at this time is that the design of the door seems to catch some water (not much) and dump it on you as you exit the car, both driver and pass fronts.

    Anyone else notice this?
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    coolguysacoolguysa Member Posts: 2
    Wow, great ideas here. I hate the Bridgestone tires. I would like to see Michelin tires on my car and a full size spare tire; run flats would be nice. The handling is terrible, any improvement would be nice. I would like a more powerful stereo; that isn't 440 watts. The radio sounds like about 50 watts. Some type of side protection from door dings would be awesome. A bigger chrome tip on the muffler and larger wheels (18" or 19") with low profile tires.

    If I could only have one wish it would be to junk the Bridgestone tires and get Michelins.
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    lzclzc Member Posts: 483
    I like my TCH a lot. But it's unfortunate that one must also buy a long list of optional items of dubious value to get the benefits of a hybrid car.

    The dual-zone, automatic climate system has some idiosyncrasies that make it less desirable than the manual unit, at least in my climate zone.

    And the Smart Key option, while cute and convenient sometimes, comes with risks. All electronic keys are difficult to replace. The news media has reported on some real horror stories. People have been stuck in small towns or on weekends with no way to get a replacement key. But at least conventional keys are difficult to break. I wonder how many drops to a hard surface the Smart Key will take before one is left stranded.
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    plknjplknj Member Posts: 121
    The volume and temp controls on the steering wheel should be moved for easier access... had a Saab and the controls were very easy to access. Fog lights would make a nice addition as well as a better GPS system. I still have my Garmin GPS as the one in the Toyota doesn't compare. The phone should also be made more user friendly as well... neither of these systems are user friendly... and we should have the option to access them while driving.
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    pabugeaterpabugeater Member Posts: 17
    Lots of broad comments without any explaination of possible improvements. Please clarify:

    . what does "easy access" mean? compare/contrast
    . what makes a better GPS system, Toyota's are highly regarded? compare / contrast
    . what makes a phone "user friendly"? compare/conrtast

    Access while driving, agreed. One concrete comment :)
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    plknjplknj Member Posts: 121
    Happy to explain (I didn't want to take up too much time or space). I find the two buttons I need the most on the steering wheel - volume and temperature control are placed wrong. I have to stretch to access either control. While the switches below them are hardly needed. I would make both controls vertical instead of horizontal.

    I am a photographer and when I photograph a wedding things need to be exact. The GPS system is anything but that. I have run both the Toyota and Garmin system together. I can live with 'in about two miles turn left'... but I can't live with 'you have reached your destination', when I am still not sure what house it is. The garmin is easy to use, exact and intuitive. 'Turn left and the house is on the right'... answers my question but is not what the Toyota GPS says.

    I am a bit of a techno geek and after reading and rereading the manual have found no easy way to use the GPS or the telephone system. The voice activation has never worked for me. After inputting about 10 numbers... when my Treo 700P rings... the wrong person shows up on the Toyota screen most of the time.

    I am a believer that a great technological item should be at least 75% intuitive... if one is technologically oriented. The way I have gotten around all this is by installing my Sirius Stiletto 100 for $60 rather than switching out the XM radio for $700-$800. My Treo is simple to speed dial from and works well with the bluetooth connection. My Garmin 350 is simple to use and I prefer the heads up display over my steering wheel rather than having to look to the side.

    But, this is just my opinion... I drive over 100 miles a day and otherwise, love my Hybrid. Had to relearn how to drive a hybrid and my wife now complains that I sometimes drive too slow (which has never been a complaint) but when I see 35 to 40+ mpg and the price of gas going up... I'm happy. My car is fully loaded and is comfortable and easy to drive. Would recommend it to anyone. Hope I didn't go on too long.
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    newcarsnewcars Member Posts: 103
    I had to laugh when I read about your issues with your Treo 700p. Both my wife and I have Treo 700p smartphones and everytime either one (or both) of us get into our Camry Hybrid, it is a crapshot if our phone will work or not. In fairness to Toyota, however, this seems to be a problem with the bluetooth in the Treo 700p; as a lot o automobiles have problems with it.

    As for what I would like to see in my Camry Hybrid:

    1) A better navigation system. Not only would I like it to be more accurate (you are correct about the "you have reached your destination" message when you are still half a block away) but I would like more destination options. For example, I am a vegetarian and I would like a list of vegetarian restaurants when I travel (like with the Acura navigation system).

    1a) A quieter navigation systems. Sometimes I think my navigation system "talks" just to say something. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard "keep on I95" when I am not only several miles from my exit but also there is no exit of any kind nearby. I'm not lonely; can the car please shutup!

    2) A "smart" navigation system/XM radio combination like Acura (and now the Nissan Altima) has. The real-time traffic features of the NavTeq system in the Acura and Nissan is not only neat but useful.

    3) Radar-assisted cruise control. This is not only a neat feature but I would think it would be especially useful and appreciated with hybrid drivers who just want to "cruise" to their destination, maximizing their fuel economy. Maybe I'm just lazy but I find it annoying (and probably detrimental to my overall fuel economy) when I need to frequently change speed, constantly turning off and reseting my cruise control on the highway due to traffic.

    4) A backup camera. Another neat feature that you really miss when its not there. Again, something that the new Nissan Altima (including the Altima Hybrid) has that the Toyota doesn't.

    5) Better handling. Actually, for a Toyota, the Camry Hybrid really doesn't handle too badly but it still is not a "driver's car" by any stretch of the imagination. I would guess most people are satisfied with the way their Toyotas handle but, personally, I think it could stand to be improved. Make it a bit sportier without losing its comfort.

    All in all, however, I quite like my Toyota Camry Hybrid. While it is not perfect, I actually enjoy it.

    And its great to be getting about 35mpg when gas is approaching $3/gallon again.
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    wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    "you have reached your destination" message when you are still half a block away

    I was sitting at a 4 way stop intersection when it told me that recently. had no clue as to which way I was to turn.

    A recent trip to Ohio I was driving on a road that was not on the map. That's really confusing. Also a trip to nags head showed me going across the water (newer road) yet I could look to my left and see the old bridge in the distance that was on the system.

    I would like SE handling. I don't like slowing down for curves as it hurts my FE ;)

    All in all, at 19,500 miles and 38.86mpg, it's been a good car ownership experience.
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    plknjplknj Member Posts: 121
    Here... here... you are absolutely right about your add-ons. As cruise control is recommended to keep ones mpg up, radar assisted cruise control would be great. I have been thinking the same thing about how inefficient it is at times regarding the fuel economy.

    A backup camera would be a dream as I park in a narrow alley for work. I have had thoughts of adding a backup camera.

    You are also right about it not being a true 'driver's car' but I write that off partially to it being a hybrid and trying to get that extra mpg. But then I am not in my old BMW - though my wife's Saaburu more than makes up for it.

    I just installed xenon headlights to compensate for not having fog lights. Toyota said it would cost close to $1,000 for all the parts and installation... which isn't close to being worth it. I have to drive in foggy areas where there is a heavy deer population at 6 AM and on some late nights coming home from photographing a wedding. New Jersey is a haven for deer.

    But these additions would make it a dream car... but i definitely enjoy what I have... my kids would have disowned me for buying a Prius... but it's cool to have a TCH.
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    gampagampa Member Posts: 78
    Lateral support in the seats...

    Acura has them, Honda has them, Volkswagen has the,... why not Toyota.
    Sometimes I fell like the seats are made for the... to be nice... heavy set.
    When I extend the lumbar support, I feel like I am on my living room couch.
    I just don't feel part of the car.

    After three months I just cannot find that sweet spot.

    I have found a "tolerable" position... but just above average - at best.

    Any one else find this problem?

    Gampa
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    newcarsnewcars Member Posts: 103
    plknj, since you live in New Jersey, could I ask a big favor of you?

    All in all, I am very satisfied with my Toyota Camry Hybrid but I confess that if the Nissan Altima Hybrid was available when I made my purchase, I would probably have traveled to a nearby state (interestingly, New Jersey) and given that car a serious look. Especially since with the Technology Package the Altima Hybrid has many of the features I long for in my Camry Hybrid.

    If you ever have the opportunity, could you test drive an Altima Hybrid, preferably one with the Technology Package?

    I am just very curious as to how you, as a Toyota Camry Hybrid owner, would compare it to your car.
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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "As cruise control is recommended to keep ones mpg up, radar assisted cruise control would be great. I have been thinking the same thing about how inefficient it is at times regarding the fuel economy."

    Actually, adaptive cruise control may be less efficient, since it follows the flow of traffic, which in my experience has way too much acceleration followed by sudden braking. That would trash MPG.

    It would be very convenient, of course, but may come at a price.
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    plknjplknj Member Posts: 121
    If I ever get the urge... I will, though I think they will be suspicious if I pull up in a fully loaded 2007 TCH!
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    newcarsnewcars Member Posts: 103
    ;)
    Thanks. I'm just very curious.
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    newcarsnewcars Member Posts: 103
    The problem is that even without adaptive cruise control, you are accelerating and braking with the flow of traffic regardless. The thought/hope is that it would be smoother and more fuel-efficient with adaptive cruise control.

    And more convenient.
    ;)
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    wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    "As cruise control is recommended to keep ones mpg up"

    I have not found that to be the case. It simply makes it easy to get good FE. Great FE will only occur I believe by leaving it off and maximizing the hybrid driving techniques. Cruise on my frequently taken trip of 125 miles nets me 37 to 38 mpg, but if I want to work at it I can get 42 without cruise. Even with cruise and the 37 there are hills I would turn it off because I could hear the reving of the engine and PSDtranny trying to keep the mph up and I have a hard time listening to that knowing it's killing my FE ;)
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