Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

soobiedoo · June 2002

I've had my Subaru Forester for 18 months and have experienced some interesting problems that I would like to know if anyone else has experienced and taken to the Subaru dealership.

Issue 1: For the past two weeks, my car has been steadily losing power during acceleration off the line. It feels as if the engine is gasping for air and has caused a very inconsistent ride. For example, I will push the accelator, the car will drag and then shoot off the line. Sometimes, it drags at a consistent 1500 rpms for a full 5-10 seconds and then shoots off. Also, when I come to a full stop, the car trembles and at one point, the engine died at a stop light.

Issue 2: When I bring the windows up and down, streaks of car grease appear on the inside of my windows. This has been happening since the beginning and I was told by the Evanston Subaru that this was normal. Is it?

Please let me know if you have run into these issues. Thanks!

soobiedoo · June 2002

One other question I would like to ask my fellow Subaru Forester drivers is when you use your windshield wiper fluid and your fan is on, do you smell it inside the driver area? Subaru says it's strange and have attempted to diagnose and fix the problem, but the issue still exists? Any thoughts? BTW -- my car is a '01 S+ with 20k miles.

p0926 · June 2002

Soobiedoo-

#1 No and that definitely isn't normal. Do you have an auto trans? Has the dealer looked at it?

#2 That's not normal either. If the car's wet from rain or washing then water streaks would be normal be grease streaks are certainly not. For the dealer to claim otherwise is ludicrous. Is there another dealer nearby?

#3 Now this one is plausible and there may very well be nothing wrong. The fresh air intake for the fan is at the base of the windshield under the hood so it's not too surprising that you could smell washer fluid, especially if you spray the windshield while the car is stopped and the fan is on and set to outside air.

Hope this helps and keep us posted.

-Frank P.

dt63944 · June 2002

Smelling washer fluid with or without the fan on is normal; I've never had a car that didn't exhibit that behaviour. In fact, around here (Buffalo NY), you can even sometimes get a scented windshield washer fluid!

scirocco22 · June 2002

Grace-- I agree with both Frank P. and David T. I've smelled it on just about every car I've owned too. There are numerous discussions on several Audi message boards which I participate about that very subject because Audi factory fills their windshied washer fluid containers with a horrid smelling solution.

The next time you fill your reservoir, you might try 20/10 All-Season Special Formula. It's pink in color and effectively cleans without streaks or smears. I've found that it has very little odor, if any ...or maybe even a slight fragrance. But I don't have a keen sense of smell so I can't really describe it.

--'rocco

scirocco22 · June 2002

Gene-- You can find the build date on a plate located at the bottom of the left side b-pillar. Open the front door (driver's) and look at the bottom of the pillar just above the rocker panel ...the plate will have the build date and the VIN. Mine says 06/01.

--'rocco

ace57 · June 2002

thanks for the friendly response, Frank P.!
Charlie is a straight 03 'x' with automatic, no other options.......the auto was for my wife, actually the car is my wife's, but boy i sure like it too...!!
my initial impressions are: fit and finish-very good, seats-a little firm but supportive, radio-excellent, visibility-excellent, fog lights-great, ride-decent for platform and wheelbase, handling-crisp at low speeds, decent with some acceptable vagueness at highway 70-80mph, brakes-very good, wife had to slightly lock them up on her maiden voyage due to some idiot changing lanes suddenly, center storage box-a little flimsy, rear hatch-very accessible and easy to open/close............
overall=the Forester is a unique little creature with, shall i dare say?....character....really
i like driving it just so i'm not one of the masses in camrys accords etc.......maybe not a great reason but it does something for me.......
I REALLY LIKE THIS CAR so far........and i, IMHO, think it looks heaps better than the "first generation" Foresters......
I think I paid a pretty fair price..........but i guess i'll see, as more and more 03's are sold

cheers
ace from the bay state

gened1 · June 2002

I have seen the B piller drivers side placard but it does not have the vin or a build date. All that is there is the vehicle weight and suggested tire pressures for various loads.
There is a vin (besides near the base of the windshield) and option and paint code etc placard riveted to the top of the drivers side strut surround under the hood but there is no build date there either. I think it would be in the vin but I don't know how to decipher Subaruese.
Gene

scirocco22 · June 2002

Gene-- No, keep going down. It will be facing outward. The weight and tire pressure sticker is facing forward. The VIN and build date plate is actually a tin plate which is attached with small rivets. It's located right below the area where the bottom rear door hinge is bolted on.

--'rocco

rsholland · June 2002

and it looks like Subaru has officially launched the new '03 Forester TV commercials, as I saw one tonight.

My reaction was mixed:

One one hand I was happy to see the new TV spot, as I was curious as to how they would market it on nationwide TV, but I'm not sure I cared for the ad...

They make reference (comparison) to the new CRV, in a somewhat humorous manner; two people trying to choose which car to ride in, obviously the Forester won out. I don't know, I think I would rather have not seen the CRV comparison. I think any time you make a reference or comparisons to another brand, you have acknowledged the other brand as being a (the) leader in that market. It's almost like the old Hertz vs. Avis "We try harder" ads. I know Subaru has done that comparison-type ads in the past; I'm just not a big fan of that type of advertising. I think you always come off as looking like your second best.

They also make it very clear that the Forester has more horsepower than the CRV. Well, yeah, but it's only 5 horsepower now, which is certainly not much to brag about; and in real-world driving, it's virtually insignificant.

Bob

gened1 · June 2002

Thank you, thank you thank you!!!
I feel like Columbus with your help I made a discovery! My build date is 01/02. In all my looking I just didn't look hard (far enough) down.
with appreciation,
Gene

rsholland · June 2002

in the mail today. I think it's for the CEL, which was brought up on Thursday's Chat.

Bob

scirocco22 · June 2002

Gene-- *heh* you're welcome. Yeah, it's really inconspicuous. What color is your Forester? Mine's silver so the plate just sort of blended in ...unless they paint the plate the same color as the car. Is your plate the same color as the car?

Bob-- I tend to agree with you pertaining to comparisons when running a TV ad. However, I did think the last ad to run, comparing the Forester to the Escape, was quite effective. It really made the Escape seem inferior by the comparison. I really like the looks of the Escape and originally wanted one but after viewing that ad, I was really glad I bought a Forester. The ad even featured "my" car ...a silver S Premium.

--'rocco

rsholland · June 2002

Yeah, Subaru partakes in this kind of advertising a lot, so it must work. I still don't care for it.

I'd much rather see Honda do a CRV ad, that compares the CRV to the Forester. When that happens, you will know the Forester is the LEADER, not the wannabe.

Bob

scirocco22 · June 2002

...true, but the Forester is not yet the leader so I suppose Subaru thinks that these types of ads are effective. But when you think about it, what's wrong with being a wannabe? The implication is that even though we're not yet the leader, we "wannabe" so take a look at what we offer. We have this and this and this that the CRV doesn't ...just take a look!

--'rocco

rsholland · June 2002

behind the ads. Avis was very successful years ago doing exactly that (although, they never made it to #1).

I still don't care for them. I think being portrayed as a "wannabe" is not a good image to have. You're (indirectly) acknowledging someone else is better than you.

Bob

scirocco22 · June 2002

I see what you're saying but I really wonder if that registers with most people viewing the ad. It didn't with me until you mentioned it. Even if the Forester was leading the CRV in sales, maybe Subaru might still try to target their ad toward the people who might be considering their competition in order to even widen the gap. I wonder whether comparing yourself with the competition necessarily implies that you're inferior or "less" better ...maybe, but that could be reading a lot into their intention and the consumer's impression.

--'rocco

gened1 · June 2002

Yes my Subaru is Platinum Silver Metallic and the plate is the same color as the car.
Gene

rsholland · June 2002

Companies that are # 1 never (or very rarely) make comparisons with their competition. It's only companies that want to become # 1, that engage in that form of advertising.

I think the current Honda CRV commercials are a good example of "how to do it right." They poke fun at all the SUVs that promote extreme sports (Nissan Xterra comes to mind), without actually naming any brands.

Bob

hypov · June 2002

Haven't come across it yet.
Anyway, why the Forester : CR-V comparison?
Well I've noticed on the board when someone drops by or hang around thereafter, and are in the process of buying a new car almost everyone narrowed their choices to the Forester or CR-V. I think the ad is taking advantage of this commonality to sway the decision in their favor, to give the undecided that extra push/nudge to go with the Forester you may say.
So, how close am I with that logic?

-Dave

armac13 · June 2002

I think that have really nailed it. Like it or not, the CR-V IS the leader. There are still a lot of people out there who don't even know what a Subaru is. When I was selling Rufus, one caller asked if the Forester was Korean! Subaru has to get people who would otherwise automatically head to Honda or Toyota to at least look at Subaru. Head-to-head comparison advertising (as was done for the Outback!) can be very effective in that context.

Ross

rsholland · June 2002

I agree completely. Subaru would not be doing these comparison ads if they weren't effective.

They do it with the Outback too, when they mention the Explorer. Same with the WRX commercials, when the mention the expensive Euro-brands.

Having said that, I still have reservations about that format. Maybe I just refuse to accept Subaru as *trying* to be # 1, when I know they really are.

It's a tough job being an idealist, but someone has to do it...

;

Bob

rsholland · June 2002

Speaking of commercials, do you folks in Canada get the same Subaru commercials as we do here in the States? I wonder if all Subaru's *North American* marketing comes out of the same ad agency, and uses the same marketing regardless of the two different countries?

Bob

kowski · June 2002

Hello fellow Forester lovers. Just ordered a 03 XS for $500 over invoice not bad I guess. I skipped the premium package for the moonroof I think it cuts a little head room. I have a question on this great vehicle. With the auto climate control is there a way to bring in fresh air just using the vent mode? In other words without putting the system in auto mode just bringing in fresh air.

rsholland · June 2002

for '02, the Forester was pitted against the Escape in TV commercials. Now it's up against the new CRV.

Either the V6 Escape is too much for Subaru to counter, or Subaru feels the CRV is a better (easier?) target to go after.

Bob

hypov · June 2002

Maybe the V6 Escape is too much. Then maybe the Escape (Tribute) is still recovering from its "Quality is job 1" stumble IIRC, and there's no dire need to pit Forester against it. Maybe it was thought wise not to associate the Forester with the Escape after its stumble, at least for awhile.

-Dave

rsholland · June 2002

Subaru feels the Forester is more a direct competitor with the CRV, than the Escape. Forester customers may be more likely to cross-shop the CRV than the Escape is my guess, hence the CRV comparison.

Bob

goldencouple1 · June 2002

Subaru is a small company. Their vehicles come with a reputation, among a certain in-group, of durability and quality, and unique approach to what a passenger vehicle should be. Subaru wants to get noticed, a foot in the mental door. As has been said -- some people buy one after another and/or come from Subaru families. Some people don't know where they are made or what they are all about.

Honda is probably what Subaru wants to be -- at least for now. Honda isn't the largest Japanese auto company -- but it is coming on strong and is at the top of its game right now (and afraid of the statistically inevitable decline that must come at some point). Honda started out small and quirky, with a unique approach to what a passenger vehicle should be. Remember the first Civic you ever saw? It still has a more limited product line than Toyota or Nissan. Honda grew with a reputation for iron-clad quality. Quirky, yes -- but durable and reliable.

So I think it is logical that Subaru puts the Forester up against CR-V. Subaru wants to be know by the company it keeps. And I think there's a closer relationship between Honda and Subaru -- as I have tried to illustrate.

Subaru wins if it can get more people to think of Subaru at the same time they think of Honda. If they can get more cross shopping, they win -- more bodies in the door, more drive away in a Subaru.

rochcom · June 2002

Subaru Joke:
In Sunday's Shoe comic strip one character says to the other: "I see you are finally doing your last will and testament."

"Yes, but I can't figure out who to leave my legacy to."

"Legacy, I thought you were still driving a DeSoto."

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Windshield washer fluid smell: Two possibilities for an unusually strong odor are that the fluid you are using has an unusally strong odor, OR the jets are aimed in such a way that they are spraying directly into the air intakes.
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Steve: Now that you know the dog is not rabid, you should find it and bite it back.
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couscous · June 2002

This is coucous here. I just purchased a 2003 Forester and will be picking it up by this Wednesday. The dealer has presented me with the protection spray, LoJack, prepaid maintainence, and the Security Gold Security warranty (7 years, or 100K miles) spiel. All this for $4,648. I now drive about 16,000 mpy. What to do? I understand thru Edmunds that for about the first 30K most scheduled maintainece is oil change and tire rotation? This is my first Subaru

storyteller · June 2002

Rochcom: The dog I can forgive. If I knew where she's hiding, I'd love to bite the owner!

Steve

windy6 · June 2002

We are the pretty happy owners of a 98 Forester L, 2nd Subaru we've owned. Its my wifes primarily and she's pretty happy with everything except the gas mileage. About 21-22 in town and 23-24 on the road. The road mileage drops when I'm at the wheel due to my heavy foot but she is normally very easy on gas on whatever she drives.
It has about 45,000 miles, automatic. The A/C is almost always on because we live in Texas.
Any suggestions on what we might look at or is this pretty normal mileage? Other than that we love the car/SUV.
Windy

carmarshel · June 2002

Thanks Dave and Frank P. for the Forester endorsement and your welcome to me.

I test drove the Forester (auto and manual) and CR-V (auto). I know this isn't the comparison site, so I won't dwell long on the CR-V. But, I was plain turned-off by the Honda dealership in my area, and got a similar (but more courteous) response from a dealer in a neighboring city. I was actually told by the first dealer that they don't and won't have any CR-Vs to test drive because it is such a hot seller and people order them anyways. At the other dealership, I test drove an automatic. My impressions?...great engine and power, like some 6 cylinders I have driven, but without the abysmal gas mileage... felt like I shouldn't push it too hard going into turns (tippy?)... good Honda interior design sensibilities... mediocre (or no) arm rests...limited tunnel vision veiw through the rear...great back seat room and storage area for a small SUV.

The Forester... great engine power feel and torque (at least and even compared to my current 1997 Honda Accord vtec 5-spd)... good feel of the road, steering wise...very little lean going into curves and great tire grip, and the Forester "encouraged" me to go faster...great view out all windows...well laid out interior...and armrest!...great cup-holders (important to me for commutes to-and-from gigs)...still not sure about the auto-climate control, but I think it can be controlled manually...and the Subaru extras like heated mirrors, wipers, and seats, and real all-wheel drive will come in handy in bad/cold weather. Overall, the Forester was fun to drive, and not a bad compromise for someone (like myself) who also needs a little utility in a car.

Just my 1 1/2 cents worth. Also for whoever is interested and doesn't already know, Car & Driver will supposedly be reviewing the Forester in their July issue.

-Rod

nypaul · June 2002

...when in the market for a new car I had it narrowed down to the CR-V and the Forester. I was looking for 4 seats and room for a dog, and chose the Forester. Not only was I impressed by what so many Subaru owners had to say about their vehicles but our dog told me he liked the Forester better ;-) Have a good week everybody!

Paul

newflyer22 · June 2002

I know it was a little excessive, but I just traded my '02 Forester premium on an '03 Forester XS Premium. The improvements are noticeable including a lot more room in the front seats front to back. The addition of real cupholders is nice to see, too, amongst many others. So far, this car seems quieter than my last, if that's possible. I think it shows that Subaru does do its homework when making improvements, even if it takes a little while. While Subaru is not as big as Honda and a lot of the others, I don't think it's fair to come in here and bash them. The cars they put out are on par with the quality of other Japanese manufacturers. Every car on the road can have problems, even Toyota. My sisters '01 Rav4 has been nothing but problems including the latest: a cracked sunroof made of plastic. I am not bashing Toyota, just pointing out it can happen to anyone. Give Subaru a break. They are great cars.

casecom2 · June 2002

Your mileage is in line with what the EPA says to expect: 21 city, 26 highway for a '98 Forester with automatic transmission.

In Subaru's defense, the Forester's gas mileage is among the best in its class ... better than the current V6 Escape and Santa Fe and comparable to the CR-V and RAV4.

For a significant step up in gas mileage you'd have to look economy sedans/hatchbacks like the Civic, Protege and Golf, or one of the hybrids.

cat_meow · June 2002

I wonder how you can tell your dog like Forester better?

I am the only cat that can drive in the world. I prefer the '03 Forester to CRV for its better handling, nicer look, and blah blah blah.....And, the cloth of XS premium's seat is soft enough for a cat to enjoy sitting on it.

Can your dog drive too? ^0^

-cat

paisan · June 2002

I saw an 03 Forester for sale on a used car lot in Rome, NY. Shot some pics of it just cause it was funny seeing it there.

-mike

joestein · June 2002

I leased a 02 S forester in late April. I have to start out by saying the reason I leased this car is because my wife wanted a small SUV for a second car and Subaru was offering great leases, and the CRV (Which I wanted) would have cost me significantly more. I currently drive a Honda Accord.

Subaru has a great reputation for reliability and safety. Overall the Forester is a good looking car, though a little small in the rear seat.

My only real objection is with the shoddy interior part quality. The ceiling liner feels like a piece of cardboard, you can actually push it up and down with your finger, it is not glued to the roof. The carpet is not glued down, it is just attached at the edges, you can shift it around a little, it makes that plastic piece to hold the drivers floor mat useless. The center console is a easily wobbled and the cup holders feels like it will fall out of the dashboard if I put one of those 'super big gulps' in it.

Overall, I think the interior quality of my Accord far outshines the Forester. Though I think the exterior and mechanics is roughly equal.

paisan · June 2002

Don't forget the accord is non-4wd and costs much more than a forester. Have to compare apples to apples, how does the headliner in the CRV feel v. Forester.

-mike

p0926 · June 2002

qmarker · June 2002

I see 2003 Subaru accessory web pages and catalogs. I'd like to know about the various cargo nets. They are much less expensive than what my dealer is quoting me. Now, I can't install air deflectors but I sure could hook up a cargo net (I think). Don't these just hook on to "something" already existing in the vehicle? Or is it more complicated than it looks? Also the pet barrier. Is that a major install?

I want to order the Forester soon and I don't like the fact that my dealer is quoting all MSRP costs on the accessories I've mentioned.

Thanks, Donna

qmarker · June 2002

Cat, You may be the only cat driving one, but ALL dogs "think" they are excellent drivers. Didja ever notice when you return to the car in a parking lot they are automatically sitting in the drivers seat?

Gotta be the lead dog?

Donna

ateixeira · June 2002

Joe: compare them back-to-back and you'll find the headliner on the RAV4 and CR-V are the exact same material as the 2002 Forester.

And the funny thing is the 2003 Forester now uses a nicer material, so you just pointed out an advantage. The cup holders are now molded into the center console, and generally materials are upgraded.

Congrats Michael. Boy, two new cars in two years sounds nice! :-)

Congrats to ace57.

Congrats to couscous, too. Some of those things are nice but $4648 sounds ridiculous. I'd go a-la-carte and try to get the warranty for $1000. If you use the dealer for maintenance, figure out what it would cost and if you can save 20% or more by pre-paying, it may be worth it. Remember you'd be earning interest on that money if you kept it. Skip the undercoating, they already come with what is necessary from the factory for the trip across the Pacific, in fact we complain about the smell when it begins to burn off.

Hmm, Forester is 3rd best in JD Power and we complain? Our standards may be a bit high, fellas. I should talk, I'm a card-carrying OCD club member, but I swear I've only waxed my rims 3 times so far. ;-)

Dave: wax those rims, it helps!

Look at CR - Forester beat the RAV4, which was 1st in JD Power. What do you care more about, fixing something in the first 90 days, when it's free, or down the road, when YOU pay for it? I'll let each individual answer that rather obvious question.

Also, look at the bright side. JD Power's numbers show that Subaru improved a lot, and if it is an indicator for long-term reliability you would expect it to improve as well, no?

Another positive point - the Forester looks like the best scoring Subie.

The recall Bob mentioned also affects my dad's Outback, but IMO it's a good thing. Think about it - they are reprogramming the ECU to be less sensitive to triggering CELs. What's the #1 most common problem here? Check engine lights. Problem solved? Who knows, once they're fixed the JD Power numbers could improve. This "fix" may even help Grace.

Forester won JD Power's APEAL study in 2000, but in 2001 the Aztec took over. I'll let you guys come up with punch lines...

-juice

carmarshel · June 2002

My dog actually preferred the Forester over the CR-V too... Seriously. In my test drives of the two vehicles, I took them home for my dog to "see" (advantage of living relatively close to the dealerships). She, a golden retriever, had no trouble getting in and out of the back seat and rear storage area of the Forester, without the aid of a ramp or steps. The CR-V was another story. She had no problem getting in, but balked at jumping down from the slightly higher levels (and she generally is not that afraid or cautious). I guess another advantage of the more car-like attributes of the Forester. (I hope there aren't any dealers out there reading this.)

-Rod

ateixeira · June 2002

My dog likes the lower paw-in of my wife's Legacy vs. my Forester. And the moquette fabric is softer, too.

-juice

p0926 · June 2002

So Juice, you finally got a dog? :(o)

ateixeira · June 2002

DOH!

Bob met him, what do you think, Bob?

-juice

cat_meow · June 2002

We've bought the cargo nets. We need to drill several holes for the plugs, which are used for hanging the nets. You'll need a quite powerful driller.

Cats are lazy animals and are not willing to drive even they can. : )

-cat

rangerron7 · June 2002

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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