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First, BIG THANK YOU to oblio9 for his VERY HELPFUL step-by-step video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww5AGhFWcBw
My two cents:
* I didn't have any wire nuts, so I just covered the ends with electrical tape, and then tape everything together.
* The video was helpful in carefully popping off the plastic cover of the steering column, although it doesn't include how to put it back on (which was the part I was most worried about). Just put in on in the reverse order of how he took it off - right hand side first, left hand side snaps into it, and then the top slides in the back and snaps into the bottom two halves. It'll make sense once you try it.
* Not only does the yellow indicator light now stay on on your dashboard, but every time you start the engine the odometer will give you the "service engine" display, so you'll have to hit your trip button to get rid of it.
* I knew the yellow light would bother me, so while I had the black electrical tape out I put a small piece over the light on my dashboard (I can still see any other lights that might light up, though).
Between this VERY informative thread, and that video, I can't thank everyone enough. Once we get into the winter months I'll report back with any problems, but after reading everyone's experiences, I'm not expecting any!
My daughter has a 2003 Saturn Ion and we are trying to determine if it is worth shipping from Hawaii to Las Vegas. She is having that 10 minute wait start problem. I changed the plastic initiation switch, then went through the 30-minute learn procedure found in Programming Theft Deterrent System Components, it still would not start. I took off the new ignition switch and put the old one back on and it started up fine. The next morning it would not start. We waited for 10 minutes and it started. But now the problem is more definite, it is not starting more often.
My questions are:
If I disconnect the white wire will it affect the airbags or any other part of the car?
Is it required that the airbag fuse be pulled before you cut the white wire?
Can a remote starter unit be installed on a standard shift where you have to press the clutch to start?
Thanks everyone this forum has been an enormous help for me and my daughter. And yes, we have filed a complaint!
Joe
What you could do, and I have contemplated but not tried, is cut the wire while it is running and then when it is powered of install a switch. then I would just keep the switch of during the cold months and turn it on for cool weather or vehicle inspections. I am curious if anyone has tried this yet and how it worked.
I turn the key, everything lights up, the engine cranks once, then nothing. I have to keep turning the key all the way off, wait 10 seconds, and try again. Eventually, after 10-30 minutes of doing this repeatedly, the car starts. Every once in a while, the car does start after only a few tries.
I have read about this problem on many different forums, and I am angered and dismayed that GM will do nothing about this. Good thing my employer is understanding, and has not fired me yet for being late every time this happens.
If you own an Ion in a cold climate, you will have this problem. There are several simple fixes, but I think GM should do something about it.
Please complain to BBB at http://www.bbb.org and the NHTSA at https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/Complaint.cfm
Joe
yesterday the same scenario but it wouldn't start up for nothing. tried getting it jumped started cause back in july it locked up on me after running the radio and fan for 20 mins. the saturn mechanic said to get it jump started. was stuck at marshalls parking lot and had it towed home. then had it jumped the next morning.
had no problems till yesterday. it wont start even after getting jumped 2 times. finally got it towed to the mechanic and am waiting to see what they say is the problem. the tow truck driver thinks its the anti theft device and the roadside assistance guy said its the starter. so let's see.
btw i just found out about the white wire work around as of yesterday. also i will look into getting a battery warmer. might ask my brother to get one for me for Christmas.
Thank You
THANKS!!
Happy Holidays! Joe Tree
Happy Holidays! Joe Tree
Then wiggle the black switch pulling as you turn the ignition switch with the key in it. It took me 3 or 4 tries to get the switch off pulling quit hard. There is a kind of a 1/4 inch squire end on the rod that goes into the switch and you have to align the switch and rod to get it off and on. When you get it off go into the house and lay a paper towel on the table. Pay attention to the way the switch comes apart (IT WILL BASEICLY ONLY GO TOGETHER ONE WAY) there are two small tabs on the switch that you might have to push in to pull the switch apart. once apart find the circuit board and take some alcohol on a paper towel and clean the grease off the board. There will be some black in the grease, When clean I took a little Vasaline on a Q-tipe and wiped it on the same side of the circuit board that had grease on it before. I put as much vasaline on it as about a 1/4 drop of water (VERY LITTLE) or don't use any vasaline. Wipe the silver fingers that touch the board (DO NOT BEND THE FINGERS) Snap the switch back together and reinstall the switch with the screws (THAT WAS THE HARDIEST PART) After the screws are tight try and start the car.
When it starts, shut it off and put the plastic parts back on. I pulled the airbag fuse but I don't think you have to. If you want to pull the fuse it is under the vertical cover
that your right knee touches, take out the black plastic screw, it turns 90 Degrees to unlock. the fuse diagram is on the back of the cover.
This is The one that worked for me and it worked for a friend at work too. I think it is the grease insulating the fingers from the pc lines.
It took me about 40 minutes, 10 minutes just for putting the screws back in because you can't get your fingers in there. A short torx wrench about 1 to 1 -1/4 inch long is the longest you can get in there. A pair of needle nose pliers will really help. Good Luck
Together we can hold GM accountable for the poor construction of certain vehicles.
www.consumeraffairs.com
But it was 7 degs. last thursday morrning and the car started right away.
So I don't care about the light. Next I am going to pull the fuse to reset the computer and see if that stops the security light comming on and the message.
So, please don't beat up your friend; he's a victim, too!
The good news today: Since she replaced the ignition switch eight months ago, the car has started every time. Of course, she lives in sunny southern California . . .">link title
I finally had CAA tow it to my Saturn turned Chevy dealer for service. They claimed after 5 years and 120,000 kms that it needed a battery and this was why it wouldn't start. At this point I should point out that the red lemon has had 4 ignition switches and 1 body computer since we bought it new 5 years ago if my memory serves me correctly. Not to mention some of the other issues this car has had not related to starting.
So they put in a new battery and now sitting in a warm service shop of course it starts. I am out about $230 with their diagnostic time added to the battery and the installation costs.
I drove to the dealer from work (50 kms round trip) pay the bill, get the keys and I verified that yes it actually did start. It is parked right in front of the dealership - must have wanted to advertise the high quality cars GM makes. I went back to work.
After work I picked my wife up and we drove from home (60 km round trip) to pick up the red lemon and bring it home. I wasn't surprised when it failed to start. Lots of juice in the brand new battery of course but the Passlock system would not recognize the key because the car had now cooled off completely. So nearly 2 hours wasted and we head home leaving the red lemon for another trip into the service bays AGAIN. It has now been sitting for 2 weeks. I tried all of the usual tricks GM recommends to get this piece of junk to start
So in the meantime we continue driving our 94 JEEP with 450,000 kms, the 94 Dodge Spirit sedan with 419,000 kms and the 99 Dodge Dakota with 380,000 kms all on original drivetrains. They all start at any temperature and all love to drive around our red lemon poinsetta. The 3 MOPARS combined give a fraction of the problems that the red lemon does and in the combined 39 years of service and 1,250,000 kms I can guarantee you these 3 vehicles have spent a fraction of the time at the dealership for repairs. They only ever let me down three times in that time period for 2 water pumps and one fuel pump.
It is no wonder that GM hit the ropes this last year and is destined to take up last place in market share within a few years, if they manage to survive at all. I have well over $5,000 credit on my GM Visa card towards buying a new GM vehicle but it will go waste. I can not see myself ever buying another smelly GM cowpie.
Now if some car thief would just steal it .... Ooops I forgot, that can't happen unless the thief has a Dodge tow truck.
meron, oblio9, bertbaggins, agawamguy, rockfish1 and amber13
The next year the car went dead and we were told it was the starter. It may well have been, because the car never started after that, but I now suspect it was a "series" of 10 minute freeze ups and bad timing on our part. We never made the connection to what had happened the previous year.
This year, it started happening again. Same symptoms as everyone else. After a few instances of being stranded in the cold, she took the car to NAPA and got a new battery installed. But then it happened again...and again...and again.
After doing a search and finding this thread, we came to the conclusion that we probably needed to cut the wire. But before doing so, I wanted to try one last ditch effort suggested by a poster a while back.
OUR SOLUTION:
My wife started turning the key until all of the dashboard lights came on, then waiting to start the engine until the lights turned off. It has been almost 3 weeks and (knock on plastic) she has not had a single issue. And we have reached temperatures as low as 10 degrees since.
So my advice would be to try this method before taking the drastic step of cutting the white wire or investing any money in a new ignition switch, battery, BCM or starter. If it doesn't work for you, then pull out the scissors. I'll be sure to re-post if we run into any more starting issues.
Now my question is: How do we tell if the replacement battery she bought is "vented"? And if not, what are the consequences? Do we need to re-replace the battery? FYI: She bought it at NAPA for about $85.
Thanks and good luck to everyone.
It has been 0 degs. F for a couple of days lately and I have had no problem starting my Ion. I am starting to get my confidence back that the car will start in the morrning. I think the reason the starting problem is showing up later in the cars life is the greese is drying up and getting thicker in the Ignition switch. Someone used the wrong greese.
One of these You tube videos shows how to get the switch off and the other shows the switch out of the car and on a table. note the greese on the curcuit board. Good Luck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdNrF5Ljkxw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cown4CO2FJ0&NR=1
so i dont think its necessarily a cold weather issue
that way the car wont think you are using the wrong key
my key is all scraped up.. so maybe thats why it thinks i am using the wrong key?
GOOD LUCK TO YOU - and thanks to everyone who helped me solve my problem!
sure enough.... car didnt start again tonight
cutting the white wire this weekend
i live in san francisco so i still am not sure my issue is with the weather
Just like everyone else, it took 10 mins to sometimes a half and hour to get my car going. I would take it to the shop, which of course, the car would start every time for them.....no hits when hooked up to the computer, the mechanic (all three) could never figure out the problem - not the battery, the spark plugs, fuel filter, any and everything.
After my last mechanic experience, I thought about the amount of time I am spending at the auto shop, the amount of time wasted starting my car and being late for everything....not to mention that the car had newly started to strand me places from not starting. It used to just give me a problem once a day, the first time I would fire her up, recently it was almost every time.
Well, two nights ago, we decided to cut the wire. I had been thinking about doing it and then I saw the youtube video that someone did and decided to go for it. I figure, what is the worst that could happen? My car is a 2004, which I plan to run until it falls apart! I didn't want to have to get a new car and a car payment (which is what was going to happen, since no one could figure out the problem), nor did I want to go through just replacing things on the car until something worked.
I cut the wire and my car has been great ever since! No more waiting for a 1/2 hour to get it started, being late to work, getting stranded everywhere and just the frustration of dealing with this car!
I am so happy I cut the wire! I only wish I had bucked up and done it a year ago. I could have avoided so many cold days waiting for a miracle along with money at the mechanic and time lost at work.
If anyone has this problem and wondering should they or shouldn't they......go for it. It will make you so happy!!
Thanks to everyone here that has helped me fix my problem! You guys are all awesome! I no longer will get stranded anywhere or freeze to death trying to get my car started!!!
does anyone know what i am talking about ( i dont know much about cars so i barely know what i am talking about)
and what do i do if i need to change the battery after the white wire is cut?
thanks!!!
my cousin is cutting the wire for me this weekend.... i cant wait
i am sick of this 10 minute wait business
and like i said before, i live in california where it doesnt get that cold
Anyway, "Napa Guy" said they could test the old one to see if it did need replacing. As far as the vents, they should be on the top side edges of the battery. They look like smooshed ovals that the venting tubes attach to. As soon as you look @ the battery you should notice them. And yes the battery needs to be vented, batteries apparently give off some type of exhaust and being enclosed in the car could be dangerous. Not sure of the exact consequences but I sure don't wat to find out. If the battery was under the hood all would be well since there is no floor holding all fumes and exhaust in. I paid the same for my battery.
Hope this helps. I'm taking my car in to my mechanic fri. and will be taking in a copy of your message and others to help him fix my car. My other option is to leave it on the train tracks in my backyard.
Wish me luck!
We tried waiting for all the lights to go off before starting it as well, but it didn't last. We've since cut the white wire and have had absolutely no problems since. It really doesn't affect anything and saves you a ton of headaches.
Good luck!
When you take it in for an oil change they reset the "trip" in the computer so it knows when to remind you for the next oil change. We cut the white wire but haven't had it in for an oil change yet so we don't know how it'll affect the odometer warning message and dashboard warning light that come up every time we start the car. I had read somewhere that disconnecting the battery for an hour will prevent the warning message and light until the next oil change, but I haven't tried that myself, so I don't know.
Good luck!
Who cares about the service light coming on when all you have to do is hit the trip meter or wait about 15 minutes and it goes away by itself. There does not seem to be any "grease issue".
As to problems with the dealerships, the company is going BYE BYE after 2010 anyhow. Notice no 2010 models at the dealership, because GM cut Saturn loose.
I do have one question. Anyone have a coolant alert going on? My coolant is fine but that sensor light is really annoying! I'm wondering if it is a reminder to have my coolant tank flushed, I'll have to check next time I get my oil changed.
thumper
i cut the white wire today on my 2004 saturn ion