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As for the ongoing debate, I have to say that after test-driving the Acadia, I think it is potential huge hit for GM. It really hits the sweet spot in utility/capacity, driving ability, and looks. As for price, well, try pricing a similarly loaded Tahoe and THERE'S your value. But for everyone out there who keep nitpicking keep these things in mind when you are looking at all of these crossovers:
1) Third-row seats = compromise NO MATTER WHAT! My 2003 Honda Pilot's third-row seat is functional, is it comfortable? Not too much! Is it safe? I hope so. Is it as good as my 1st and 2nd rows? No way! Besides minivans, this holds true for all vehicles and I think the Acadia comes the closest for crossovers. Expeditions probably have the best 3rd row seat overall but they've got their own problems.
2) Fuel economy = depends largely on you. The weight penalty of these bigger crossovers means that driving habits drives this game, especially in city driving.
3) I laugh when I see people argue over torque, towing, etc. Be honest with yourself, you will not tow over 5,000 lbs unless your wife finally lets you buy a boat. You will not race sports cars at stoplights. My Honda Pilot probably has one of the "weakest" engines at 255 hp among these candidates but it has plenty of oomph for the things I need to do i.e. drive on the highway, change lanes, etc.
Hope I'm not rehashing previous points. Good luck!
What post# are you talking about? Post #13 was a joke!
You should know that fun is not allowed on this board! :P
Well, that's just not true! As with all humor, delivery is paramount and we cannot be held responsible for deficiencies in that regard. :shades:
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I haven't had a chance to check out a CX-9 in person, but I've seen the cargo numbers. I've owned a Pilot since November 2002. Has anyone compared, in person, the cargo capacity in 5-passenger mode of the CX-9 vs. the Pilot (especially the shape of the available cargo area)? I know that the Pilot is taller and wider and the CX-9 is longer. I'm thinking that might lead to a more useful shape in the Pilot (for our needs, anyway), the cargo area being more "cubic", vs. the longer, narrower CX-9.
We travel 1200 miles to Pennsylvania every summer hauling 2 months worth of clothes and other gear, so the SHAPE of the cargo area is as important as the size. We find the Pilot's more square-shaped cargo area VERY flexible.
The other thing that concerns me about the CX-9 (and ALL Pilot competitors) is the placement of the tranny shift lever. The Pilot has it on the steering column, which frees up the space between the front seats for the Pilot's GIGANTIC center console storage. A small family could live in there. We are so used to having that humongous space for fast foot, drinks, CDs, books, small animals, etc. that my wife will absolutely NOT give up that space while travelling. It looks like every competitor has the shift lever between the front seats, robbing the vehicle of that huge storage space. That may well be the undoing of anything else for me but another Pilot. Anyone have thoughts on that?
Thanks,
Dave
-The Pilot does have less than pleasing interior dated plastics which is an aesthetic issue more than a functional issues
-The Pilots hp is plentiful. This is not an issue. How fast and how much do you need. And I'll take the 24mpg (realworld) I got on a trip last summer anyday.
-My Pilot has Vehicle Stability Assist.
Wait a minute there... "Fun" is built on a completely different platform than "Humor," and is not just a stretched version of it. They come from totally different factories with different engines. Plus, the reliability record for "Fun" is a lot better than "Humor," so I don't know why anyone would want to have "Humor" when they could have "Fun" for just a little more... :P
To address these issues:
-The Pilot does have less than pleasing interior dated plastics which is an aesthetic issue more than a functional issues
-The Pilots hp is plentiful. This is not an issue. How fast and how much do you need. And I'll take the 24mpg (realworld) I got on a trip last summer anyday.
-My Pilot has Vehicle Stability Assist.
Except for the interior plastic (which I happen to think is better in the Pilot than than in the Freestyle), these were all my points. Maybe I need to be more clear?
The Pilot is more space efficient than the Freestyle, tidier on the outside than the Freestyle, is more powerful, and has stability control, which the Freestyle inexplicably doesn't even offer. Thus, I don't think people would go nuts over the Freestyle if it had a Honda label on it. It also would need to have Honda attributes.
Now why the above defensive comments followed my favorable comparison of the Pilot to the FS remains a mystery to me.
GLS 3.8L V6 6-Speed A/T w/SHIFTRONIC® Front-Wheel $26,305
GLS 3.8L V6 6-Speed A/T w/SHIFTRONIC® All-Wheel $28,005
SE 3.8L V6 6-Speed A/T w/SHIFTRONIC® Front-Wheel $28,005
SE 3.8L V6 6-Speed A/T w/SHIFTRONIC® All-Wheel $29,705
Limited 3.8L V6 6-Speed A/T w/SHIFTRONIC® Front-Wheel $32,305
Limited 3.8L V6 6-Speed A/T w/SHIFTRONIC® All-Wheel $34,005
Great Pricing!!
I think we're talking crossovers here!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
There are many things that will always be a mystery to you.
pilot is too fat. so are the gm's.
i had an expedition and that was the thing i liked least about it.
i wish these crossovers had a rear window that could open independently of the rear liftgate.
Hmmm...I take that foot of "useless overhang" and the greater legroom in the 2nd and 3rd row of the Freestyle (and greater cargo space behind the 3rd row)
honda sheep
baaaaaa.
Seriously, resorting to implying idiocy because of a car choice certainly doesn't seem needed here.
That made my night!
7-8 passenger crossovers are req'd to have a fixed liftgate due to safety otherwise rear passengers could fly out the back window in a rear end collision ala Chrysler Caravans early 90s models. Wishing won't help.
pilot 0-60 8.6sec
FS 0-60 8.2sec
"Seriously, resorting to implying idiocy because of a car choice certainly doesn't seem needed here."
I wasn't implying idiocy, I was implying the heard mentality.
CR says it's great, ALL my neighbor's drive them to soccer practice, all I can find is good about Honda in the world. The fact is they have their own problem's as a manufacturer, the Pilot is not perfect. I'd argue it's 200lbs min overweight, has less usable space, and with it's horsepower advantage should be faster.
FS is the only CUV that passed with highest marks with its safety testing without the upper canopy installed. Ford deserves credit for the FS package,using the Volvo safety architecture/platform, mileage, price point, and proven Duratec and the innovative CVT in this application and packaging(theatre seating actually provides an adult occupiable 3rd row) is forward thinking. Unfortunately they have been let down by marketing efforts, bias reporting by CR, a public driven by hp numbers, and teething problems that all manufaturer's go through when launching a new model.
It was the best package of it's kind when introduced and with more insightful marketing and engineering(i.e. improved the interior materials) could have forsaken it's name change and been a leader in the segment as opposed to the follower it has become. The FS foibles/problems are indicative of Ford's problems unfortunately, the FS deserves better than it's gotten.
Hyundai Veracruz
Looks like they're being very aggressive at $26-34K...
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
Makes the FS that much better a value and competitior.
Wow, where did you get it? The normal Pilot shares it's platform with the Odyssey...
i think the lack of one is a money saving measure or the result of styling over practicality.
I had a '91 Escort and '99 Cougar, both of which had only $800 in repair costs before 100,000 miles...wow, so you had $400/vehicle less in your Pilot repair costs
Resale & repair costs don't mean much if you're paying $5K more for a vehicle to start with.
You know what they say about assuming and no it was a 2004 with 95k....nearly 100,000. U think what you want.
I'll take my Pilot anyday over any other 8 passenger since I paid $28k loaded for it!!!! That is basically a steal.
I'm sure the redesigned 2008 Pilot will retain a high resale value compared to the new Lambdas...perception is everything in this business.
Put those things on the Stylefree, and the playing field is a bit more level. Still, the Veracruz can be had with more power, but still gets decent mileage for the type of vehicle it is, and has a far nicer interior. The Taurus X will be a great improvement (hp, safety, interior). However, it will still be saddled with the Stylefree/Cadillac SRX/Chrysler Pacifica genre-look that people don't seem to warm to as easily as the SUV/CUV look of the others.
As for the testing 5 stars without the optional sidecurtain (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ncap/cars/3089.html) so unless your uninformed opinion can prove otherwise I'll take my information from the NHTSA. Not to mention the top of the list rollover numbers even without stability control.
With looks being a subjective thing the Freestyle is conservatively handsome to teh benefit of the 3rd row and rear storage and I'll concede the interior material selection rather than styling has been my major gripe about the FS. But if you like warmed over RX-300 styling all the way down to the center cluster then go right ahead and take hand me downs. The FS can more than stand on its own albeit in limited form as I don't care for the 2-tone treatment in the least).
So it seems when you add the '08 stability control(and standard sidecurtains) that you seem to need to keep you and your driving on the road and still line up the MSRP's and find that the FS is still $200 away from your beloved Veracruz and recognize the FS will be available form a company on the ropes thereby you'll be getting some deeper discounts. It represents one of the better buys in the marketplace as nobody is paying anywhere close to list or invoice on these. Buy used and you can keep even more of your money in your pocket and get a ride that is quite capable of hauling people safely and getting great mileage. Pay full price for the new lexus hand me down Korean wonder if you feel you need to, I've had 18 months of enjoying my FS with my family.
That’s less than the Saturn Outlook, Mazda CX-9 and V-6 Toyota Highlander, but for some reason Hyundai compares it to the much more expensive Lexus RX 350. We like apples and apples around here, and if you beat the real competition on price, why not say so? Full price breakdown on all trims below.
Veracruz GLS FWD $26,305
Veracruz GLS AWD $28,005
Veracruz SE FWD $28,005
Veracruz SE AWD $29,705
Veracruz Limited FWD $32,305
Veracruz Limited AWD $34,005
$690 destination charge not included
'07
FS SEL 26,670
AWD SEL 28,500
LTD 29,955
LTD AWD 31,805
Even if you split the difference between the GLS & SE for the VC the FS still wins the price-point battle.
I gave you the VC seemingly has the nicer interior(it's OK but i'd even like a nicer interior in MY FS), the FS is still the better value because in the real world you are never going to pay list/invoice like you will be at the Hyundai dealer because of fanboys like you.
Those prices are INCLUDING the $750 destination charge
Cargo room
behind front row
VC 86.8 cuft
FS 91.7 cuft
behind 2nd row
VC 40 cuft
FS 47.9 cuft
behind 3rd row
VC doesn't even list this figure probably because it's 9 in shorter and they sacrificed useful storage space here
FS 20.7 cuft
Going by the numbers the VC is comparing a FS apple to a VC lemon, they made a nicer interior you win that round, the FS is the better package and value.
I guess if you don't mind sitting at your Dealer waiting for parts or just waiting to get your vehicle back a couple times a month for the next ten years, well then maybe yes they do carry a fair warranty. :P