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I totally agree about the cars to the right and on their individual pages. They change them way too quick.
However, do a comparison on the main Edmunds page of two cars, one being the 2009 Jetta TDI. The window stickers with the EPA mpg ratings for the TDI have been out for what, a year now, and Edmunds is still researching it????? I sent them an email about it about 9 months ago and they said they were working on it.
I've seen from more than a couple sources that for '10, the Altima sedan is losing the 6-speed manual COMPLETELY! This includes the lower-model 2.5 models, and the 3.5 SE (which is named the 3.5 SR for '10). And I thought Mazda was bad for dropping the manual on their V6 models...
This leads me to two conclusions:
1. The 6-speed manual is returning to the Maxima! (I know, wishful thinking... :P )
2. Nissan has given up on the "4DSC" designation for everything they sell (a shame...)
Uhm... where else would they be, on a mid-sized sedan? :confuse:
Or did you mean "off" the sides of the car? I see the logic of having the tail lamps extend to the sides--allows the side markers to be integrated into the tail lamps, and maybe prevent additional holes in the body (for side markers). That's been done on cars for a long, long time.
However, be forewarned that the trunk opening is very shallow front to back--as on most sedans these days.
And definitely not a bad thing for VW and Audi, that actually offer wagons, or Ford and Honda, which offer 5 seat SUVs that can more effectively compete against the new Outback.
Anyway... how many Passat wagons does VW sell in a year? Maybe one reason Subaru went to a SUV design for the new Outback is that they found that not many folks wanted an AWD station wagon. If they are going to buy a vehicle of that size, why not get something taller, with more cargo capacity?
How different are these in real life? You don't think people who look at an Outback would cross shop the CRV, or the Pilot or Odyssey for that matter?
Anyway... how many Passat wagons does VW sell in a year? Maybe one reason Subaru went to a SUV design for the new Outback is that they found that not many folks wanted an AWD station wagon.
How many do they have to sell? How big is the market?
If they are going to buy a vehicle of that size, why not get something taller, with more cargo capacity?
Of what size? If its bigger, its not the same size. And from the specs, the vehicle is taller for ground clearance, not that much taller inside. If I wanted something "taller" I would go for the Mazda5 or upcoming Grand C-max thing. Its too bad Honda did the "hatchback" with the Accord and not the wagon.
I don't know, as an owner of an '05 Legacy wagon that we love, I think the new Outback is a miss for me.
Someone looking at the Outback would most likely NOT cross-shop the CR-V, which is much smaller. (If there were looking at the Forester, then yes the CR-V would be a natural comparo.) It's possible folks looking for an Outback might cross-shop the Pilot, but more likely would cross-shop other five-seat crossover SUVs like the Edge and Equinox. Someone looking for more seating would logically cross-shop the Pilot, Traverse/Acadia/Enclave, and other 7+ seat crossover SUVs. I really don't think someone shopping for an Outback would cross-shop a FWD minivan like the Odyssey. Could it happen? Sure, there's always an exception. But the Outback and minivans like the Ody are much different kinds of vehicles.
How many do they have to sell? How big is the market?
Exactly. Apparently not as big as the market for SUV-type crossovers. I expect Subaru and other automakers have studied the market pretty closely. How many AWD station wagons starting in the $20s are there?
Of what size? If its bigger, its not the same size.
I meant longer, of course.
The Mazda5 is not available in AWD, is it? If someone wants something in AWD that's REALLY tall, they could go for a big SUV like the Travcadiclave or an AWD minivan like the Sienna (actually I think that's the only AWD minivan left).
Better save your money for an A6, I guess.
That's exactly my point, now there is none. This used to be a market that Subaru owned. Now they are up against the Ford, Honda, Toyota, and GM, all that have equivalent options from a shopper's view point. I might get hit by lightning for saying this but what does the Outback have over a Venza? Or an Edge?
Oh, I found a big one...they kept the 6 speed manual on the base model. But that probably isn't a big plus to most, and they still have to get past the Subaru "styling."
I'm not quite sure what your complaint is, though. You said the new Outback isn't any "taller" than the old one, except for ground clearance. So I take it you just don't like how Subaru penned the new Outback?
I'm sure Subaru was smart enough to know that they owned that particular (read small) market. They obviously thought it was better to have a small piece of a big pie rather than the whole mini pie. They have an all-wheel drive system that is very respected along with a good record of dependability. If they can get their styling down and their mpg up so that people that don't live in snow states will buy they might be able to get an even bigger piece of that large pie.
Fair enough. I realize as a vote of 1 I don't reflect the market as a whole, but big clunky jacked up station wagons don't do it for me. Something that has a low center of gravity, is fun to drive, and has a reasonable amount of power is more appealing. I enjoy driving (as terrible of a thing that is to say in this "eco-state,") and if its not fun, I am not that interested.
They have an all-wheel drive system that is very respected along with a good record of dependability.
While I do like the performance of their AWD, their engines are on the harsher side, especially for the amount of power they produce. Its part of being a flat-4 and I don't mind it personally, but going up against the sewing machines in Hondas and Toyotas, they might need some work.
If they can get their styling down and their mpg up so that people that don't live in snow states will buy they might be able to get an even bigger piece of that large pie.
People in non-snow states don't want AWD. Yes the WRX is AWD but that is a different, equally "particular" market. If Subaru offers FWD only, their mileage will go up, and they will have funny looking coarse feeling cars that have nothing to differentiate them from other alternatives.
Trying to be all things to all people when you have a niche market is a bad strategy. Being profitable and able to charge a premium because your product is desirable enough to command it is a good strategy. BMW (a niche market specialty product that commands a premium and people pay it) vs Toyota (a commodity product with very little to differentiate it in the market).
Aren't there Subaru dealerships in Texas, Florida and other southern states as well as California? I'm sure some people want them and I'm sure they aren't just selling WRXs. That's like saying nobody in a snow state wants rearwheel drive. There's always a market....albeit small.
It will be interesting to see if Subaru steps on it's foot by leaning towards the masses with the Outback. I say leaning as I still think the Outback looks fairly distinctively "Subbie" and different from other similar size crossovers.
They both have their awkward angles, but the Venza lacks the angry grin of the Subaru and has cleaner details, making it the more attractive design to my eyes.
(Also your link to the photo of the Outback appears to be broken.)
Just a pic of the Legacy Outback. Feel free to google it.
Ont the other hand, they are selling really well at my store, so, I guess I am the minority in my opinion.
What do you mean by "de-contenting"? I have looked at the new Accords, and it looks like the same exact materials used in my 03. What was de-contented?
The 92 Accord I had didn't have better materials than the 03 I have now. The dash was soft, almost spongy, but those dashes were also known to crack, if not taken care of. The sun shade used to make little dents in the dash. The carpet, and floor mats, are the only things I can say might not be as thick now. I think the interior in my 03 interior fits together better, and more securely than the 92 did though. The materials may have been softer, but not more durable or higher quality imo. Softer doesn't necessarily mean better.
I do remember the paint wearing off the radio buttons on the '93, and I think some of the steering wheel controls for cruise did that as well. After 15 years I am okay with that...ideally i won't have this one that long though :P
Oh Elroy, what do you put on the weatherstripping for the doors to help it seal and not rattle? There was a Honda fluid or spray or something for that, IIRC.
If that's a problem, maybe we could go back and delete all the posts about the upcoming Honda Crosstour, the Venza, the Mazda6 wagon, and similar posts, as well as posts about RX-8s etc. etc. Since some of those are yours, maybe you could start it off?
I have never had a problem with the 03's doors. The passenger side front door on my 92 used to stick though. The windows on the 03 had started to squeak a few months back, and I used the Shin-Etsu grease that Honda sells for seals and window tracks. I remember seeing a TSB about how to apply the grease to the door seals, but doubt if I could find it again. I remember it said something about using pipe cleaners to grease the inside of the door seals. I thought that was odd. I have not had any problem with rattles or fading, and my car sits outside in the sun all day. They've fixed a lot of the roads where I live, so there's not much to make a rattle I guess. The dash on my 92 never cracked, but I've seen many of those old sunken dashes that did crack. The only part of my 92 interior I had a slight problem with was the hard plastic around the door switches. Some of those pieces didn't fit together that well, and seemed to fade quicker than the other pieces around it.
Thanks for looking that up...totally comical. I will let my Honda dealer take care of it.
I have not had any problem with rattles or fading, and my car sits outside in the sun all day.
They were mis-matched and had bad surfaces when I bought it, I just didn't notice it in time. I think that is one of the reasons I think the old Accord was higher quality, the dash only had one uniform continuous surface while the new one has 4 or 5, all with different tolerances.
Not if it is a normal wagon and not a "crossover".
But the new Outback appears to have made the leap to something fundamentally different--a crossover, for lack of a more descriptive term. It's no longer a Legacy--and in my opinion, no longer a midsize sedan.
The Legacy, on the other hand, certainly is a midsize sedan--now more than ever. It's also potentially one of the best, even if purists feel that it (like the Outback) has lost some of its distinctive character in the latest redesign.
Yeah I hear those are pretty good... :P