Midsize Sedans 2.0

baggs32 · August 2007

And the v-6 that drops to 3 or 4 cylinders depending on driving conditions sounds very interesting.

And it looks like an EX, the trim I'd want, will start at $30k. That's a bit steep for a family sedan. How many miles will it take to make up the price difference between an '08 Accord V6 at 29 mpg highway and an '08 Sonata V6 at what, like 25 or 26 mpg? Still seems like an unnecessary gimmick to me and one that could lead to problems down the road. How durable are the active engine mounts that keep the engine from vibrating when it's only running on 3 or 4 cylinders for example?

Aside from that, I think I like it. I'll have to see it in person to be sure though. I do like the Tribeca-like interior though. Shave off some buttons thought. What is with Honda and all these buttons all of a sudden? And for the love of God, integrate the CD slot rather than having it look like some tacked on afterthought! It still looks as bad as the one in our '96 Civic did and gets blocked by the shifter in nearly the same way.

mz6greyghost · August 2007

Still looks like a Saturn L-series to me (unoriginal, derivative, boring, etc.)
2008 Honda Accord

Gee, Honda seems to be really excited about it's "large" EPA classification for the sedan, while the coupe is still considered a compact? WRONG. Despite the fact it has two fewer doors, the "empty nester" the coupe is supposed to appeal to still needs space to carry themselves and their gear.

The 4-cylinder is STILL sacked with a 5-speed manual? WRONG. A 6-speed manual is standard on the Altima 2.5S, why can't Honda step up?

Sorry Honda, there's nothing new or ground-breaking here. The styling still screams "L-series" both front and rear, and the interior, with it's 83 buttons, doesn't look nearly as classy and elegant as the current-gen, and in general leaves a LOT to be desired.

baggs32 · August 2007

The 4-cylinder is STILL sacked with a 5-speed manual? WRONG. A 6-speed manual is standard on the Altima 2.5S, why can't Honda step up?

The V6 still gets a 5-speed ATX too.

Who on earth wrote that press release? :surprise: They sure do take a lot of subjective measurements and list them like they are facts. As I type this, I can hear the collective drool from the Honda crowd's mouths hitting the floor while they read that tripe. :P That press release almost made me sick to my stomach while I read it.

I know the mfr is supposed to put it's newest baby on a pedestal but my God did Honda pour it on thick with that one!

Styling embodies a bold, upscale, sophisticated and prestigious design direction.

Prestigious? :surprise: Yeah, if you live in a white house, with white interior walls, a white picket fence, and think Maytag is "The Bomb".

Premium features (navigation, interface dial, Bluetooth, information display) and overall refinement (solid driving feel) on par with vehicles one and even two classes above the Accord's segment.

So is that a hint that they are just going to kill off Acura since they obviously don't need an upscale brand anymore now that the super best most greatest car ever has been announced? :P

imidazol97 · August 2007

No six speed automatic transmission? I thought all decent cars had to have that six-speed?

bristol2 · August 2007

Funny thing is, the new Accord gets better mileage numbers than the Camry with it's 5-AT vs. Camry's 6-AT and comparable acceleration numbers.

Guess that 6-AT may not be so important after all.

baggs32 · August 2007

Guess that 6-AT may not be so important after all.

Since the extra gear only helps fuel econ in 99% of its applications imagine what it could do for the Accord had Honda went in that direction. :P

You're also comparing an Accord with cylinder de-activation to a Camry without it which isn't exactly apples to apples. Toyota still has their hybrid version and Honda dropped theirs in favor of the cylinder mgmt and a forthcoming diesel. We'd be wise to see how that all pans out before making such judgments IMO.

Also, Edmunds says the V6 Accord sedan will be slower than the Altima by a couple of tenths. Isn't the Camry V6, with the 6-speed ATX, faster than that?

The 6-speed in the Fusion also does a lot for that smaller engine. It's no barnstormer but it does put up respectable numbers that would be worse if not for the 6-speed ATX.

I think Honda could have really pulled away if they used a 6-speed ATX. But they didn't and I'm not seeing anything too terribly special about this new Accord. It is nice and surely improved, but it's not leaps and bounds above the competition like some claimed it would be.

mz6greyghost · August 2007

...I'm not seeing anything too terribly special about this new Accord. It is nice and surely improved, but it's not leaps and bounds above the competition like some claimed it would be.

Oh, but I'm sure it'll win COTY from MT, since the appliance they call a Camry won it last year.

Ever since a CAPRICE CLASSIC :surprise: took COTY in '91, it's been a laughable award ever since.

bristol2 · August 2007

I think Honda could have really pulled away if they used a 6-speed ATX

Agreed.
I do think that the Accord should get recognition for increasing interior size and engine displacement, while making no changes to the transmission yet is still able to improve the mileage of the vehicle.

The new Accord is certainly an iterative rather than revolutionary change, but Honda has always been that way. The new Accord is bigger, faster, arguably more refined inside (that is just a subjective area IMO) and certainly better looking than its predecessor.

Don't forget also that Honda will stage out further improvements. Look for the diesel (now that should be a HUGE step forward), look for a manual 6-speed in the v6 sedan.

Take a look at this comparison also:
link title

kdshapiro · August 2007

"Since the extra gear only helps fuel econ in 99% of its applications imagine what it could do for the Accord had Honda went in that direction. :P "

I don't think the sixth gear is that important in general on a family sedan. It is not one of the deal breakers for me.

Seems like with some of the other stuff they moved to the head of the pack again.

03accordman · August 2007

"Oh, but I'm sure it'll win COTY from MT, since the appliance they call a Camry won it last year."

So without driving this car you have decided it is an appliance? Did you even need to look at the pictures/read about engines etc. to make any of your comments?

03accordman · August 2007

From the initial pictures, this seems to be a great effort from Honda. Looks are subjective; IMO the front and side look good, I feel the back could have been better. However, I will wait to check out the car in person for a final judgement.

Similarly, the interior, expecially with the wood, looks great; I would expect to see the execution done well by Honda - still that is something one can only really see in a live car.

Does anyone know when this car will arrive at dealers?

03accordman · August 2007

"Still looks like a Saturn L-series to me (unoriginal, derivative, boring, etc.)"

Nah, to me, I don't see any resemblance to the Saturn (seemed like it in the spy pics, esp in the back). I feel the front headlamps look a bit like a Sonata's but will have to check it out in person.

mz6greyghost · August 2007

So without driving this car you have decided it is an appliance?

Where did I say that? I merely pointed out that the Camry (which I did drive, and IMO ANYTHING is better than one) won it last year, and I'm sure that the Accord will take it this year, since there's nothing else in the running (except maybe the G37 Coupe).

Did you even need to look at the pictures/read about engines etc. to make any of your comments?

I did, and based on what I read, it's not exactly "leaps and bounds" above the competition that some people claim it to be. I'll reserve final judgment until I drive one

urnews · August 2007

The new 2008 Hondas may well be the best-ever Accords but the styling, interior and exterior, just don't do much for me. I was expecting more changes, something more dramatic.

As a personal preference, I like the 2007s better.

backy · August 2007

I think the interior (dash at least) is fine, if maybe a tad over-styled. The side view is also pretty good, if boring--reminds me of a 5 Series. But I really don't know what Honda was thinking of when it penned the front; it doesn't seem to match the rest of the car. And the rear really does look like a Saturn, as others have noted--or maybe a Sonata without the taillamp extensions on the trunk. So nothing special exterior-wise. The swoopy coupe is, as in past generations, far superior to the sedan in the looks department. I expect Honda aimed for "inoffensive" in styling the sedan vs. trying to break new ground and alienate a large portion of the buying public.

tgkoenigsegg · August 2007

Actually you're right about the design. I actually know a Honda employee and he said that the interior and exterior design of the Accord were based on the BMW.

zzzoom6 · August 2007

Anybody read the MotorTrend comparo of the 2008 Accord v-6 to the Camry SE? Pretty interesting... they actually felt that the Camry was the better car in the twisties! I have heard that the SE was more responsive and had a sportier suspension, but still, I am very surprised by this. They do say that the Accord has much less body roll than before which I am very happy about. And they go on to confirm that the coupe is sportier than the sedan, saying "The last time a Honda coupe offered these levels of style and performance it wore the Prelude nameplate." On the other hand the coupe, since cylinder deactivation will not be available on this body style, gas mileage is less than stellar with 17 mpg city, and 25 mpg hwy.

Car and Driver also mention that they felt the sedan was pretty huge...almost the size of a 300 in length. I hope it doesn't feel "boatish" because of this... but all the reviews don't indicate this to be the case, but I'm sure it's growth in size will be hard to miss. They write, "Lots of car here, and a great deal of seriousness. No more frisky four-door provocateur of tire-squealing feats, although the 200-hp four shows that old Honda magic when you let it wail. But the car itself, even with the energetic V-6 up front, is good-citizen polite, a bit parental in its reserve. The average buyer age is now 50; these folks expect their four-doors to have expansive space. The floor is lower by 0.38 inch compared to previous Accords, for more leg- and kneeroom, and the rear seat was pushed back an inch. Factor in the extra inch and a half of cabin width, and, Accord, we hardly know ya.

Youre 32, going on 64."

baggs32 · August 2007

I don't think the sixth gear is that important in general on a family sedan. It is not one of the deal breakers for me.

Totally agree with you. However, it could have been even more with the extra gear and really made the competition try to catch up in a hurry. As it stands it's not really ahead of anyone aside from fuel econ. Even there it's not the best because Toyota has the Camry hybrid, Nissan the Altima hybrid, and Ford will soon release the Fusion hybrid.

None offer the performance of the Accord's V6 but if fuel econ is your primary concern then you should not buy any V6. Is it a nice compromise? Yes, but there are better compromises (see above hybrids) that offer decent performance and outstanding fuel econ.

Seems like with some of the other stuff they moved to the head of the pack again.

Like what? To get the beter I4 you have to get the coupe which is moronic IMO. The interior is a cross between the current Mazda6 and the Subaru Tribeca. Nice, but not anything new. The new V6 has great fuel econ but is not the performance leader (as far as we know so far) so there are better choices if performance is your game or if fuel econ is your game. For example, if performance were my game (which is usually is FWIW) the Accord V6 wouldn't be my first choice because I could be beaten by an Altima. Possibly the next Mazda6 too. If fuel econ were my game I'd be getting a hybrid or the I4 option.

To me, nothing about this new Accord really stands out and separates it from the pack to the point that I'd have to say "Wow!!! I need to get one of these!!!". It's nice, but not what I expected.

zzzoom6 · August 2007

Funny thing is, the new Accord gets better mileage numbers than the Camry with it's 5-AT vs. Camry's 6-AT and comparable acceleration numbers.

Guess that 6-AT may not be so important after all.

accord sedan 19 city, 29 hwy. camry SE 19 city, 28 hwy. #'s f/ MT.

Yeah, but the Accord sedan is using cylinder deactivation - CDA - (which is arguably more complicated and probably more expensive technology) to get this mileage. But if, as edmonds writers have said, the CDA system is transparent and does not draw attention to itself, I geuss it doesn't really matter how the Accord gets its numbers just so long as it works reliably. It should be noted, though, the MotorTrend comparo gives the Camry the edge in which transmission it considered to be the most responsive.

louiswei · August 2007

I think the silver one in the picture akirby posted is without NAV. The seats in the picture are cloth, not leather which tells me it might be the base I4 (single pipe) EX (not EX-L) model. I don't think a base I4 EX with NAV will be a popular combination so Honda wouldn't use that for photo shoot. The screen in that picture doesn't look like a color one used for NAV anyway.

If my assumption is correct, that means both the NAV and non-NAV version will come with that screen (like the Avalon and G35/37) and the button numbers won't reduce. With the way the dash is setup it is kind of hard to imagine what could Honda do without that little screen.

urnews · August 2007

It's nice, but not what I expected.

Baggs, that pretty much sums up my reaction, especially after reading Motor Trend's toe-to-toe match with the Camry.

dilettante · August 2007

You're right. That picture was without NAV, though it doesn't look to be the same screen. The NAV screen is taller and has a secondary screen below it above the vents, which the non-NAV doesn't have.

tallman1 · August 2007

Navigation is only available in the EX-L models, both I4 and V6.

Non-Navi:

Navi:

baggs32 · August 2007

Is it me or does the non-navi stack have more buttons? :surprise:

Good placement for the navi system though. Should be easy to view in that location.

No sport mode on that ATX? I'm a little shocked at that omission too.

dilettante · August 2007

The buttons across the top of the non-nav stack are related to the direction of the fan and the AC, Defrost, etc. There are a ton of pictures here http://www.flickr.com/photos/10728020@N02/ that let you get a closer view if you choose to view them in a larger size.

kdshapiro · August 2007

I actually call this model the "Lexord" :confuse

03accordman · August 2007

"The interior is a cross between the current Mazda6 and the Subaru Tribeca."

The interior of the Accord is gorgeous; the Mazda 6 can't even in its dreams have an interior like this (at least from pictures). AS for performance, we haven't seen any Mazda 6 beat an Accords performance, and I don't expect that to change.

03accordman · August 2007

"or maybe a Sonata without the taillamp extensions on the trunk"

Which themselves were a copy of the 03 Accord's.

03accordman · August 2007

Honda's are usually conservative; same is continued with this iteration. The interior looks great; let's see how well executed it is in real life

03accordman · August 2007

The non-navi does seem to have more buttons.

The non-sport mode ATX was pretty much expected ever since the first spy shots started appearing

baggs32 · August 2007

The interior of the Accord is gorgeous;

That's your opinion. I think it's nice but still average.

the Mazda 6 can't even in its dreams have an interior like this (at least from pictures).

I had an '04 Mazda6 and it had the same faux aluminum, silver plastic all around the center stack that this new Accord has. The part I was actually referring to is the use of the small display (navi), or larger display (non-navi) above the center stack that shows the HVAC and Entertainment info. Mazda has been using similar displays since 2003 when it first appeared in, you guessed it, the Mazda6.

I like that they others are now using that type of display, but realize that some people won't too.

baggs32 · August 2007

The non-sport mode ATX was pretty much expected ever since the first spy shots started appearing

Then why have the Accord faithful been leading us to belive that this new gen was going to be light years ahead of the competition? I'm still not seeing anything to get excited about.

colloquor · August 2007

FWIW . . . I've rented a 2007 Camry SE on two separate occasions and driven them over 1,500 miles on interstates each time with a consistent 34MPG. Interestingly, I just rented a new 2008 Ford Taurus (a.k.a. Five Hundred) with the new 3.5L V6 and 6-AT, and it delivered 28.8MPG (typical speed 75MPH) over a 1,350 mile trip, and it's a pretty good sized car - considered a full-size, or large car, I believe.

03accordman · August 2007

"That's your opinion. I think it's nice but still average."

That's correct; its my opinion, I never implied anything else. Just like it being average is your opinion, not fact. If you don't put 'IMO' in every sentence, why do you expect others to do teh same?

"I had an '04 Mazda6 and it had the same faux aluminum, silver plastic all around the center stack that this new Accord has"

Its the execution my friend; the Mazda 6 was all cheezy plastic; this one, IF it is uptp Honda's usual standards, will be in another zip code

03accordman · August 2007

The non-sport mode ATX was pretty much expected ever since the first spy shots started appearing

"Then why have the Accord faithful been leading us to belive that this new gen was going to be light years ahead of the competition? I'm still not seeing anything to get excited about."

Be frank, would a sport mode ATX make it light years ahead? No, and if it did have it, would you say it is light years ahead? No again.

What excites me about this car is its gorgeous interior; clearly a step up on anything its competition offers (with the exception of the Passat). Again, its my opinion.

thegraduate · August 2007

Is it me or does the non-navi stack have more buttons?

Good placement for the navi system though. Should be easy to view in that location.

No sport mode on that ATX? I'm a little shocked at that omission too.

The NAVI will have many functions built into its screen/control knob, hence - less buttons.

The screen up top debuted in the '05 Odyssey and looks great in both applications. Should be handy, I agree.

As for the SportShift, I personally could care less as long as they offer me some options in my gear selector (D3, 2, 1). If it is just Drive and Low, I'll be upset. If I wanted to shift, I'd get a manual, since SportShift feels nothing like a manual.

As far as styling, its my turn to say a lil somthin

I have a 2006 4-cyl EX Accord Sedan(LED taillight model). To me, the exterior of the new Accord is fantastic. The interior doesn't impress me as much as I might have expected, although I think the gauge cluster looks wonderful. I read that at night, the climate controls light up aqua-green, while the stereo controls light up white, to help differentiate them easily (a simple way to clean things up, i think). Overall it is busier than my 06 is, although it doesn't seem to integrate any extra functions into the interface.

So, if we're keeping a scorecard, mine would go

Exterior Styling - A
Interior Styling - B+
Interior Ergonomics - B-

As with a lot of things, seeing the car in person could change my mind altogether in both respects (for the better or worse).

jd10013 · August 2007

don't think the sixth gear is that important in general on a family sedan. It is not one of the deal breakers for me.

and it begins

I got to laugh at that one. Just like other discussions here, if it's not on the accord, then it shouldn't be on a car. everything that the accord has that other cars don't makes it better, and what other cars have that the accord doesn't is unnecessary, pointless, and just a gimmick.

As for my opinions, the '08 is about what I expected. They're still shooting for the 45+ midlevel management type and little old ladies. Bigger, and just about as conservative. But, I do like the engine choices they're offering. a 200hp I4 seems very impressive to me. Even the 180hp version of the I4 will be the highest in the midsize category now.
It will be real interesting to see the pricing on them.

thegraduate · August 2007

As for my opinions, the '08 is about what I expected. They're still shooting for the 45+ midlevel management type and little old ladies. Bigger, and just about as conservative.

Hmmm, I guess I need a raise then. I'm 19, and love the look of the new Accord, more so than the exterior of my 2006.

backy · August 2007

Wrong, look at both cars, '03 Accord and '06 Sonata--lamps are much different in shape. The '08 Accord's lamps now match the shape of those on the Sonata, with the sides canted back from top to bottom. But then, this is also much like the taillamps on several current Lexus models, so it's hard to tell just who Honda was copying here.

jd10013 · August 2007

There are exceptions of course, but the majority of people I see driving them are either
A middle age
B Female
C both.

I don't blame them though. Its the same strategy that put the camry at the top of the midsize car segment.

louiswei · August 2007

Uh...

I think the 06' Sonata copied 98'-02' Honda Accord's head lamp, NOT the current version's.

backy · August 2007

But we were talking about TAIL lamps. :surprise:

Hyundai's engineers admitted they used the Audi A6 as a model for exterior styling. The headlamp shape is pretty nondescript and has been used by many, many other cars.

louiswei · August 2007

Okay, tail lamps. So you were saying...

is similar to

Are you kidding?

zzzoom6 · August 2007

AS for performance, we haven't seen any Mazda 6 beat an Accords performance, and I don't expect that to change.

This is the Honda-holic's attitude in spades... whatever facts don't fit with their view, they ignore. Ok, how about braking, where the Accord stops 10 feet longer according to the Edmunds midsize comparo - or were you thinking a bigger # is better? Or how about that the Accord tested in the same comparo to be able to do the slalom at 60 mph where the Mazda6 was able to do it at 65 mph. The Accord has many strengths, but to overstate and exaggerate how good it is does nothing but make me think you are a indeed a Honda-holic.

Look, I hope the new Accord raises the bar... as a consumer, I always look forward to new models irregardless of whose name appears on the car; competition is a great thing and we are very lucky that this competition by all manufacturers in this segment results in better cars for all of us regardless of what brand we choose. As a long time Honda fan, I look forward to trying out the new Accord. So far, there are things that I'm excited about, but there are also areas where Honda could have done better. But the main thing for me is how it drives... for that I'll have to wait a little longer.

backy · August 2007

No, I'm not. Look at the shape of the lamps on the rear quarter panels--they're nearly exact copies except the Accord has more white plastic. And Honda didn't put the extensions onto the trunk lid. They are saving that for the refresh in 2011 MY (don't laugh, they've done exactly that before).

wolverinejoe80 · August 2007

it does look similar. are you kidding? the shape of the tail light is almost identical if you don't look at the part that is attached to trunk.

wolverinejoe80 · August 2007

you beat me to it backy!

anyway, this car is combinations of 4-5 cars. identity crisis anyone? i like this accord, but this really isn't a design masterpiece. i don't mind buying one because it's roomy, saves gas, and reliable, but not for the looks. interior looks great except there are too many buttons for my taste(i like current versions simplicity), but shapes and materials looks very nice.

oh by the way, tsx is the best accord ever.

tgkoenigsegg · August 2007

Will there still be a hybrid Accord here or will there be a diesel? I heard the diesel is a 2.2 liter 140 hp I4 and gets 50 MPG. But I think they could make it more powerful.

backy · August 2007

Hybrid Accord is dead (, Jim). RIP.

andres3 · August 2007

I have to admit that I'm too much of a (I want power and I want gas mileage at the same time!) kind of a guy to have ever even test driven the Mazda 6. When you combine somewhat poor gas mileage with somewhat poor power at the same time, you won't get on my "gotta have it list." (Note: I know the Speed6 mostly solved the deficiencies and inefficiencies in the Mazda 6)

That being said.... I do like a car that can handle well in the twisties, and the Honda's have always been competent in this regard.

Midsize Sedans 2.0

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