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Yeah, it seems odd. Seeing as they are both his measurements, you would think the methodology would be the same.
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
Well, the wife's tall and was comfortable behind the wheel, so I guess that's OK.
It also has the best visibility.
If it has the best handling, like I'm hoping, we're all over it.
I'm guessing MSRP will be higher and dealers will be expecting list price at least at first.
Anybody buying 09's yet?
On side note: an interesting chat over on the Land Rover forum suggested those folks actually like their cars to be heavy.
Would the Forester be a "better" car if it weighed closer to what the Land Rover L2 does?
When they arrive, I will get our trade appraised, and see what sort of deals they have. If the 09 is near invoice and they make a fair offer, I may buy right away.
More than likely they will low-ball me with a wholesale/auction value on our trade, so I'll go to private party sale.
For the new 09, I may go VIP for the sale. You get 2% below invoice, though it's up to dealer discretion if they accept that deal on an in-demand model. So I may have to wait a month or two until supply is plentiful.
Let's be realistic, here, though. This segment is hyper-competitive. The Rogue came in at a very low price. I don't see wait lists for any thing in this segment, no matter how good. Realistically I expect to be able to work a VIP deal within a month or two of the launch.
Weight is the enemy of performance. It hurts acceleration, handling, braking, gas mileage ... just about everything basically.
Keep in mind you're talking to a group of people that wants to justify and defend the way their trucks are built.
To them, the extra weight makes it beefier, more sturdy. In some cases, a ladder frame, huge differentials, low range gears, etc. are indeed heavy and make them more capable off road. Great for Moab.
Yet I would dispute even the beefier theory - why are there zero Land Rovers on IIHS Top Picks list for crash test safety?
Plus the LR2 is unibody (I believe) and lacks most of those things anyway. It's not really all that capable off road.
For a vehicle intended mostly for pavement use, weight is thy enemy.
Even off road, you still want it light. A heavier car will sink in soft sand, for instance.
Sturdy? Yes. Heavy? No.
I fall squarely in the opposite camp - lighter is better, at least in the context of a pavement-bound compact crossover. Without a doubt.
In fact, I was looking at the C&D comparo of this class and noted the Forester would have the advantage of being the lightest of the group.
It is change for the sake of change. *shrugs*
If anything, the hood is much lighter plus it's used far less often.
You bring up valid concerns but from a selfish stand point that will never affect us. :P
I remember when I bought my 04 FXT in the summer of 03, about a month after it came out, and three weeks after a raving review in C&D. I got it for straight invoice, with about 5 minutes of haggling. I still think I could have done better, but the 0-60 in 5.3 seconds clouded my better judgement. :P
Yes, but not any better, which means it will be just as likely to fail.
Selfish, perhaps, if I were the only Subaru owner in a northern climate. Considering the % of vehicles Subaru sells in northern climates, I am a little surprised that they do not prepare them better for it. For example, every winter one can see "camo" VW, Audi, and other makes driving around the Fairbanks area doing "extreme cold weather" testing. I never hear about Subaru prototypes doing this. And, what's more, there is not even a dealership for VW/Audi in Fairbanks!
Good cars, don't get me wrong, but far less cold-weather durable than 10 years ago. Even so, I blew out my gate struts on the '96 Outback by using it at -40 one day. I ended up using a sawed-off hockey stick as the prop for the remaining 6 years I had it. The good part is that with the prop, I did not have to worry about when I could and could not use it!
For an 08, the LL Bean would be a bit above that, but it has leather and more content that the competitors in that comparo. A 2.5 X Premium falls right in that sweet spot, though.
Let's see, with auto and Premium pack it's price at $24,140 list, so it could even get a small price increase and still be in line with those competitors.
Seems like the AWP is now seperate from the Premium package, so perhaps the price will stay flat but they'll charge an extra $400 for the AWP. I'd pay that much more, it would be worth it given the size gains.
The salesman who greeted me was pretty excited about all the new info they had received that day on the specs for the '09 Forester.
We chatted about what was and wasn't available ( Nav, MT, Telescoping steering wheel, etc.) when he mentioned that they would be shipping this fall with a diesel option. Anybody hear of it coming this soon?
Would that be the MY10 already?
It would be the just about the only one in its class, no?
Sounds to me like a subie scoop!
jdr
Wes- Even though Subaru's core market is the snowbelt, the avg winter temps in those areas almost never comes close to what you (in the Alaskan interior) experience for weeks at a time.
Heck, living in the desert southwest, I'd love for them to offer ventilated seats but I realize that's highly unlikely to ever happen.
-Frank
First, at a $25K median price, the 08 Forester is smaller than most of the competition, therefore of lesser value. The 09 should address the size issue, but only if the price is kept the same or lowered slightly.
Second, why didn't C&D even include the Forester in the comparo?
Even that test was done with JDM models in Japan, they even mention a 2.0l H4 and a 2.0l turbo model.
So there must still be an embargo on the 2009s from Subaru.
The comparison was fully instrumented, with all performance tests measured and reported.
2010 model in the fall? No, not possible. For it to be a 2010 it would have to come out on Jan. 1, 2009, or later. Plus there's no way they would launch a diesel here before Europe.
Kim
I still think the 08s are good choices, though.
The idea that I might have to be restricted on when I am able to open my hood come my next Subaru purchase is just not all that appealing to me. And, since it is a "change for the sake of change" item, I find it annoying. Granted, I am one of those people who lift the hood every fill up to check fluids. It is enough work planning grocery and hauling trips around the ambient temperatures so I do not blow the gate struts!
Well you could just remove them for the winter and keep your hockey stick hatch-prop in the cargo area :P
-Frank
Good cars, don't get me wrong, but far less cold-weather durable than 10 years ago. Even so, I blew out my gate struts on the '96 Outback by using it at -40 one day. I ended up using a sawed-off hockey stick as the prop for the remaining 6 years I had it. The good part is that with the prop, I did not have to worry about when I could and could not use it!
I agree - Subaru does virtually NO cold weather testing. The result is the idiotic climate control and very weak OEM batteries.
As for cold weather testing, I've seen the STis get cold weather tested. Last weekend we had ours out in mud, snow, sleet, ice, you name it. My climate control worked fine in my 05 LGT Wagon.
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
What question is this the answer to?
Link: http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-subaru-forester/
Link: http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/12/2008-subaru-forester-update-70-high.html
Another shot shows what look like HID headlamps. But these shots are all of a right-hand drive model (ergo JDM spec). Does anyone know if keyless entry/drive and HID are options for the USDM 2009 Forester?
What question is this the answer to?
I think it's Subaru continuing to try and move slightly upscale. This is one of those things that is clearly a matter of preference. I've no doubt that many buyers will consider hood struts as a nice added touch. Sure they're a replacement item but power windows don't last forever either and I don't see anyone clamoring to go back to manual hand cranks :P
FYI: I had the hood struts and driver's power window both give out at the 5-year mark in a Grand Cherokee
-Frank
Now, I can see the advantage for a shorter person, or someone who needs help to hold the hood open and engage the prop rod. I know my Mom would have struggled with it. But she had a good mechanic, and never once lifted it herself anyway.
Let's hope that FHI knows what they're doing, has a source for good strut lifts, and see what happens. I like progress, too.
I really did not mind the prop until my son started walking; there were a couple times when he grabbed the stick. Luckily, I caught the gate once and it cracked me on the head the other time, but neither time did the pup get hit by it. Those gates, especially the older ones, are quite heavy and pick up a considerable amount of velocity over that short distance. Dangerous stuff for a toddler.
You know, my '69 Chevy pickup has a spring-loaded hood that opens effortlessly every time. I really appreciate the "power assist" on that hood, and the one on my '76 Ford F250, because they are much taller vehicles. The Chevy is closing in on 40 years old, though, and I can say with confidence that the springs will never be replaced. Something about struts, though, that seem so much more refined. Well, and they take up less space.
The northeast US does not count as cold weather testing, FWIW.
The hatch on my Forester had 2 struts and they were fine after 9 years, plus they get used much more often than the hood struts would. I don't see these wearing out any time soon, especially not for the original owner.
How often do you lift your hood? Remember, this is a Subaru.
xwesx made a good point about service in the cold, but even a DIY'er like me will wait for a warm day before I perform maintenance on the car. And more than 90% of Subaru owners probably go to the dealer anyway.
I bet most owners will only notice the struts when they pop the hood to show it to friends after they buy it. That'll get a couple of oohs and ahs, and they'll never use it again, probably.
For people like me, the hood will raise itself, cool.
And by the way, my Miata's prop rod holder, the snap that holds it in place, has broken TWICE! I'm dead serious. Flimsy old piece of plastic. First replacement I got from the junk yard. Now that one cracked. The prop rod rattles around all day long.
I doubt I'll have to replace my hood struts twice.
I also hope it doesn't rattle.
I'll take pics if anyone has doubts.
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
Juice, I prefer to wait for warmer weather as well, but sometimes that requires a LONG wait. I had to put the block heater in my '07 Outback at -36F on the ice pack in my driveway last winter. I was not thrilled, considering the dealership was supposed to have installed one on the car prior to my purchase. :mad:
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
Bob
Subaru says the struts only need to be able to keep the hatch from shutting when it's about halfway down. If the struts hold it in place halfway up or higher, they're within specs, apparently. On a couple of our coldest nights so far (in the 25F range), the struts haven't been able to do that, but of course, I'm not at the dealer's service dept in the wee dark hours of the morning when it's coldest. I'll probably end up just replacing them, since I'll have a hard time demonstrating their failure to the dealer.
Anyway, I'm rambling. I'm fine with the struts if they're strong enough to do the job and last at least 5-6 years.
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
We have a 2005 Outback now but our other car is an IS250 with keyless drive, once you get used to it it's very hard to go back.
Nah, Subaru always keeps the good stuff in Japan... been this way for years and years. On the other hand, we get a bigger engine than Japan, so there is a tradeoff.
Subaru has a lot of good technology and gadgetry, some of it just doesn't reach our shores. Frustrating. I wish for once Subaru of America would get us the best stuff that Subaru has to offer. We buy more of their most profitable vehicles than Japan does.
Not just Japan, seemingly everybody but the US gets the cool stuff Self-leveling suspensions, low range gears, or how about the Forester STi?
-Frank
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
Any how, the hood is lighter and it has 2 struts to hold it up, plus it's not like you would bang your head on it since it's over the engine bay.
It broke in the same place. In the photo I've circled it in yellow.
The rod itself shakes out of the clip that is supposed to retain it, and rattles between the slip and that black thing, which adjusts the pop-up headlight motor IIRC.
Any how, even cheap old prop rods are not necessarily problem-free.
I've seen aftermarket kits for hood struts - maybe I should order that instead.