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Comments
I wonder if Honda discovered they could get better mpg with the wrong tire control arms and that's why they used them.
My story started the same way...noise, rotation, balance, but it did no good. Got louder and louder, wore out uneven, and shook. Dealer looked at everything, said all was okay, just replace tires. I did, but not with same ones. See my other posts here. Good luck.
Keep in mind that they are not required to bring up bulletins issued on their vehicles unless the customer complains. A bulletin is not the same as a warranty recall in their minds.
You may have to look through the other threads on maintenance issues cuz there are a lot of complaints about the tire control arms.
Because I have found this blog to be so valuable in my struggle to deal with this issue, I want to update what happened with me, since last blog. After ~5 phone calls to American Honda in Torrance, CA and the dealership that sold me the car, they basically ran me around the block. I then went to another mechanic who ran the car up on the lift and told me that the arms on the car did NOT have the "C" that the definitely correctly manufactured arms have on them. I ended up buying the new rear upper control arms kit, and having it installed, and buying 4 new tires and having the tires balanced and mounted, all at my own expense.
Now, when I called an alignment guy for the final step, he wants to sell me another "adjustable" set of rear control arms for another $500. I have already been told by Honda and ~4 other mechanics that no such "adjustable" arms existed.
I must admit that this whole business has made me very very angry with Honda.
Thanks!
As far as fuel mileage is concerned, my mileage went up with the two OEMs on the back and then dropped with non OEMs on the back. Weird! The Goodrich are good cheap tires but now I suggest you go another route. Get the new Michelin fuel savers or Goodyear fuel max if you can find them at a reasonable price.
I had printed out many of the posts as well as a copy of TSB 08-001 also posted here. Armed with all of this I contacted the service manager at our Honda dealership. We have always had good luck with our Hondas (have had 8 or 9 since our first Accord in '79) and the dealership has always treated us well, both up front and the sales end and consistently in the service department. We currenly own 2 HCH's, my '07 and my wife's '08. We were the first two HCH family our dealership was aware of (at least at their dealership).
My daughter and her fiance complained this past spring about the noise level in the back seat. They couldn't hear what we were saying up front unless we hollered. I drove my wife's '08 later that day and noted a MUCH lower noise level. I chaulked it up to those cheap Dunlop tires. But hers were exactly the same as mine. I let is slide until I had need for an oil change and a couple of other items needed addressed under warranty. I actually stumbled on the control arm thread while seeking info on a glitch in the IMA system!
At any rate, the service manager at our dealership has a totally different take on TSB's than most, it seems. "If is not right, Honda should fix it", he says. "If I can convince them it should be a reimbursable repair, then it should cost the customer nothing". We had a brief discussion on TSB's (which you and I may not know about unless we go searching for them and then complain long and loud enough). He doesn't agree with the way Honda handles TSB's, but I guess it is commonly done this way.
The upper control arms were replaced (no cost to me for parts or labor), the tires were replaced (only charged a percentage of what they normally would run...that was the $102), tires were mounted and balanced and resintalled on the car and the car was computer aligned...and then washed before I picked it up in the later afternoon.
I had a good experience (if something like this can be called a good experience). If you have this issue, go armed with copies of posts from this forum and others and take a copy of TSB 08-001 with you. If you can't find it here, email me and I'll make a .pdf file copy of it and email it back to you.
Good luck!
And we really do love both of our HCH's!
this forum and it appears this problem has existed at least since 2003. Does
anyone have the solution to this problem?
My last Honda ever. The quality is after profit for these guys as evident they made a profit when everyone else is going down the tubes.
They tried (still trying) everything to get out of paying, taking responsibility or doing the work. I've been through 2 tires (6 new total), on average, every 16000 miles. Even after showing the dealership the Honda Service Bulletin (08-001) they refused to take any action and refered me to Honda HQ. The service manager said "there's nothing i can do"!
So frustrating....after reading this forum and spending $750.00 on new tires for a known problem i doubt very much if i'll ever buy another Honda product.
I guess the control arm issues don't appy to my specific VIN, yet my car has the same cupping problem.
I'm not sure what to do next. I'm tempted to just bring it to Sears for alignment and tire replacement and not have to deal with the dealer who doesn't what to deal with the dddreal issue here :-)
Also, steering wheel squeaks when turning into or out of a parking spot, latest word is another" TSB" that calls for stop bumper replacements on the front suspension. :mad:
i am not happy with the 2006 hch. i wish my dad had bought me a used station wagon. after taxes, we paid 26k for a car that doesn't get the mileage they said it would and isn't backed up by the manufacturer. :mad: :mad: :mad:
Thanks again
I have to ask... did you rotate the tires? Because there's no such thing as a "perfect alignment" on ANY vehicle. If you don't rotate the tires every 5-6,000 miles, you WILL get some kind unusual wear patterns.
At 23K, should have been rotated at least three times. Check with any independent tire shop and they'll tell you the same.
I used to be a slacker on tire rotation, but once I hooked up with a tire shop instead of my dealer on tires, I started having them rotated regularly. (Your local tire guy may rotate them for free if you buy the tires from him like mine does)
We put a lot of miles on our vehicles and I have to say the evidence is pretty strong. Before I became a "rotator" I was getting a max of about 30,000 miles out of a set of tires. I haven't gotten less than 50,000 out of a set since. The last set of tires on my 2001 Altima went to 60,000 miles and if it hadn't been heading into fall and winter last year I likely would have gotten close to 65,000 out of them Right now they have 20K on them and at the latest rotation I measured the tread depth and they are at about 8/32 (started at 11/32) so I'm right on schedule to get 50K+ again.
The dealership has checked the tires on 2 more occasions and the Service Manager elevated my claim to the District Representative, who turned me down flat.
Honda's national customer relations group has told me the District Rep has the final say. They can do no more.
I now have 15,000 miles on the car and there is strong vibration in the 50s and 70s mph. I am worried after reading this blog that perhaps my alignment is not ok. I am also very concerned about wear and tear on the car, which I can't afford to replace like the tires.
I've asked Honda's Customer Relations to annotate my complaint with the comment that I have been a very loyal customer through 4 Hondas, but this has ripped my loyalty away.
Where can I find a good class action lawyer? :
I need new tires! I used the Dunlop OEM's and they gave me 40 mph (with 15%ethanol fuel) and I want to maintain that.
I heard of recommendations like Bridgestone Potenza or Escopia EP100, Cooper GFE and Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max. All are LRR tires I believe.
What tire should I get???? Help! I need them in a couple weeks for a long trip.
Thanks folks.
P.S. I change my own engine and tranny oil - 5W-20 Quaker State works fine and little or no mileage loss (0W-20 is way too pricey) and the $8/quart of CVT oil at the dealer is hard to take but only 3 quarts every 30K or so.
1. I would like to know if anybody has contacted American Honda main office and has any response from them.
2. If I do an alignment check outside (not with Honda service) and find no-alignment issues, are they going to pay for this.
3. Given such a massive number of complaints, is anybody aware of mass-law-suit in progress or preparation.
Me: I think this is covered by a TSB.
Tech: I'm not sure, but don't think so.
Me: Let's have a look
Tech: clicks around on puter for several minutes, says " I know there is one for the 2006, but don't think it applies to 2008"
Me: I'm pretty sure and it's in my VIN range as I recall. I ddin't print it out as i didn't know I had that issue. Keep looking.
Tech calls over supervisor.
I ask them to read out loud.
They do.
slowly it emerges that my VIN is covered by TSB 08-001 (all 06-07, and a vin range for 08). Then they tell me my wear isn't enuf to qualify. I respond sounds pretty dangerous, so it must qualify. Then they read "if the inner part is bald" you ignore the middle tread number, and enter the prorate chart ata 2/32 tread. The TSB also says, do NOT replace only one tire, if one tire bad, replace 2.
A bit more polite smiling persistance, and a full 08-001 TSB service done at no charge, and a rental car paid for, as they were not equipped to do all this that afternoon. I had to split the cost of 2 tires 50%.
I think they did well by me EXCEPT -- when the tech told me of my inner tire wear issue, he used exactly the phraseology from the TSB, yet never mentioned it, nor seemed to think it could possible be.
At home, did some research the 2008 HCH was added to this TSB (versus creating a new TSB) Feb 08, so it is possible (?) that they weren't fully aware that 08 had been added (early 08s - like mine bought in 07).
I did find the TSB 08-001 and saved it as a pdf, i cannot figure out the link i used to get to, but do know i googled HCH TSB 08-001 and eventually found the PDF. Its'a 5 page PDF and the dealer has to take all sorts of photos of the tires so they can be reimbursed.
hope this helps you all.
eljoh
I bought a 2008 HCH in November of 2007. All was fine until I had snow tires last winter. In February 2009, I found out that my snow tires were worn and needed to be replaced. I bought Goodyear Triple Treads. In less than two months, I started hearing some loud humming at certain speeds. At my next scheduled service, i found out that my tires were cupping (in fact, the snow tires also had cupped). That was in June. The service manager told me about the TSB and replaced the rear control arms. he said they couldn't do anything for me on the tires. I bought a new set of Triple Treads.
Two weeks ago, I had my tires rotated, and the same noise is back. I'm goiing back to the dealership.
In the meantime, another thought popped into my head. Why were the OEM tires okay? They weigh 18 lbs. each, while the Triple Treads weigh 24 lbs. each.
My question for you is: could that make a difference? Should I stick with LRR tires on my HCH? Or is the problem elsewhere?
Thanks!
BUT I can't believe that Honda has allowed this problem to fester...they knew in 2006 that they screwed up (rear tires tilted inward) and it's still happening...this is outrageous...we must band together and demand a recall. I complained to NHTSA (clearly a safety issue...quick wear = more accidents even deaths) and wrote to Honda; I suggest everyone do the same. And next time, buy a PRIUS.