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I have a 2002 manufactured in 11/01. They reprogrammed the software on 6/21/02. They have had my car for going on 4 weeks now. I have not heard a word from the dealer since 8/28/02 saying they were going to download new software once Mazda put it up on the webpage.
(the Auto Issue "The 2002 Cars" June 19, 2002)
Perhaps you were refering to a different magazine?
Another question: A few times I have turned the key and the car wouldn't start...my wife says I do it wrong (how do you turn the key wrong?)...anyway, has anyone else ever have any trouble starting their Tribute?
Your complaints sound just like mine --- so do what I did --- contact 1)customer service 2)your state attny general 3)ask your dealer for a Dispute Board form 4) Have an attny write Ford/Mazda demanding the vehicle be replaced.
Ford dragged their feet a bit, but relented and gave us full credit of the sticker price of our Escape and no milage charge. We got a 2003 Explorer (my wife was afraid to get another Escape) and only had to pay the difference between the stickers.
mikegunner
they "reflashed the PCM as per the TSB." let's hope this works.
powertrain control module. glad it's under warranty, because it sounds like they just performed an awfully expensive adjustment of the idle.
When brake pads wear thin, more fluid is required to push them far enough to reach the rotor. When the pads are really thin (needing replacement) enough fluid is usually drained from the reservoir, each time you use the brakes, to trip the low brake fluid sensor.
On brake wear. From what has been posted here and elsewhere, the Escape's brake pads are pretty soft. There is a good side and a bad side to this. The good side is that you get excellent braking performance from the softer pads. The bad side is, they wear faster.
Don't worry about it. If you want the pads to last longer, a lot of people have been using the Raybestos brand. Apparently they don't decrease braking performance too much, they wear much better, and they don't produce a whole lot of dust to get stuck on the wheels.
For the full story and to actually hear for yourself visit my web site I built. I truly cannot believe that Mazda could take such a stand on this! I can't stand the noise!!!
www.issintl-inc.com/mazda_lemon.htm
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Sorry for your problem - keep on complaining (I don't think the doggie email you sent will do much good) in a civil manner and you may get some resolution.
Has anyone tried to use the Lemon Law on their Tribute?
My 2002 ES is almost a year old. It will be a year at the end of this month. Drives great and no major problems whatsoever. Wiper holes were blocked but it was my fault. Door frame rubber was loose. The dealer said the Tribute was made that way. It was pushed back in and it's fine now. No stalling to report. Yes, there is some wind noise but you do get used to it. I always have my music on so I tune the noise out.
I just looked at the 2003 Tribute. There doesn't appear to be any change except the names of the paint options.
I'm a very happy camper with my Trib! Zoom, Zoom!
Here's their home page.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Some folks on another Escape site said that the one that is closed, PE###, was the "preliminary evaluation" the one that opened on the same day is EA###, "engineering evaluation". Hopefully, for the sake of everyone's safety, it will reach "DP###" which is defefect petition/recall.
-begin vent- Personally, I don't care if it makes Ford bankrupt, I want what I paid for, a vehicle that drives, not stalls. Besides, wouldn't us tax payers just bail them out like we did with Chrysler in the 80's? -end vent-
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
April 12, 2002
Ms. Kathleen C. DeMeter, Director
Office of Defects Investigation Safety Assurance
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
400 Seventh Street, S. W.
Washington, DC 20590
Dear Ms. DeMeter:
Subject: PEO1-043:NSA-l2am
Enclosed is Ford?s response to your February 1, 2002 letter requesting information relating to 3.OL V6 engine stalling complaints on 2001 through 2002 model year Ford Escape vehicles. Complete answers to Requests I through 4, 6 and 7 and a partial answer to Request 5 were provided in our March 15, 2002 response. Complete answers to Requests 5 and 8 are attached.
Ford does not believe that engine stalling in the subject vehicles presents an unreasonable risk to motor vehicle safety. This is consistent with the Agency?s findings in an earlier engine stalling study entitled ?Analysis of Stalling Problems,? prepared by The Transportation Systems Center (Report No. HE7021S7502). Of the 4,162 reports and claims involving approximately 3,627 alleged stalling occurrences, there have been no collisions with other vehicles. None of the reports submitted by Ford in response to this information request alleges a fatality. One report alleges some tire, suspension and steering damage. Another report makes no mention of vehicle damage but claims the customer was injured twice; the injuries are not specified. Ford has not verified that either of the incidents are in any way actually related to engine stalling. Even if Ford accepts that both of these reports are ?accidents? this results in an accident rate of 0.086 per 10,000 vehicles and an injury rate of 0.043 per 10,000 vehicles. While acknowledging that stalling is not desirable, Ford concurs with the Agency?s PE98-057 closing resume position that ?... there is no data indicating that occupants of a stalled (subject vehicle] are exposed to greater risk of injury due to the [stalling] condition.? This is also consistent with closures in other safety investigations of engine stalling where the Agency concluded that even with a high number of reports of stalling the risk of injury or fatality is low.
Our analysis of the data submitted to the Agency resulting from this investigation has identified many potential causal factors that can result in the engine stalling. Some of these are not associated with the design or manufacture of the subject vehicles?such as running out of gas, contaminated fuel and poor vehicle maintenance, to name a few. However, Ford has identified four potential root causes involving the design and/or manufacture of certain components on the subject vehicle that may account for approximately 90% of the alleengine stalling incidents provided to the Agency in our March 15, 2002 response. These potential root causes are: 1) a sticking pintle within the Idle Air Control Valve (lACy); 2) a malfunctioning check valve in the On-board Refueling Vapor Recovery System (ORVRS);
3) power interruptions to the Power Control Module (PCM) involving the PCM Power Relay; and, 4) power interruptions to the PCM caused by loose or out-of-position connectors in the Power Distribution Box (PDB). Ford has instituted design, supplier resourcing, and manufacturing process changes to correct or minimize the effects of these four conditions on engine performance as it relates to stalling. Directions on how to address these issues have been sent to our dealers by prior service messages and will be the subject of a Technical Service Bulletin to be published later this month.
As a result of an extensive ongoing investigation into these four causal factors, Ford has determined that the vehicles will restart in almost every occurrence. A telephone survey by Ford personnel of 64 customers of 3.OL V6 Escape vehicles that alleged engine stalling, and a similar survey by Mazda personnel of 97 customers of 3.OL V6 Tribute vehicles, found that more than 95% of the owners have been able to restart the engine immediately after the stall, some without even stopping the vehicle. Only in rare instances would factor #4 result in a no restart condition.
Ford agrees with the Agency?s observation, as stated in a previous resume for PE98-057, that when an engine stalls while the vehicle is in motion, which is true of nearly all of the complaints on the subject vehicles, ?[t]his gives the driver time and momentum with which to maneuver onto the roadway shoulder, away from traffic lanes.?t Although this condition may be undesirable, it does not represent an unreasonable risk to motor vehicle safety.
If you have any further questions, please contact me.
Sincerely,
James P. Vondale
2)If your vehicle is in middle lane of busy three-lane highway and it is stalling, would you have enough time and momentum to steer your vehicle to either side? If not, does it pose an undue risk to the vehicle itself and/or other vehicles behind you? I am not talking about who is at fault for not stopping the vehicle in time but about the risk of causing an accident to yourself or others....
EEC5 TEST NO CODES TRANS DIAG PID MONITOR TEST FOUND CONVERTER SHUTTER CALL HOT LINE R&R TRANS REPLACE CONVERTER & HUB SEAL R&R VALVE BODY FOUND VALVES STICKY REPLACE VALVE BODY FLUSH COOLER LINES TEST DRIVE.
It was alot of transmission work that would have cost about $2000 if not under warranty. I had about 34000 miles when I first noticed the problem, and it did get a little worse. I too thought it was perhaps the road surface or my tires, but noticed the tach acting funny when it happened.
I have not had other problems with my Escape, no stalling, howling or anything like that.
Good luck...
b. When the vehicle stalls, its not like it comes to an abrupt stop. The driver also has steering and braking control and all signal lights are still functional, in addition to the vehicle can be restarted even while it's still moving.
I see a few folks spreading alot of posts how stalling affects so many Escapes, and that the type of stall the Escape is reported to be experiencing is so unusually dangerous. However the NHTSA findings seem to dispute these claims.
I am not minimizing the frustration that owners of Escapes (or any vehicle that stalls) is experiencing. You should expect better and hopfully FoMoCo or your dealership will continue to treat you as a valued customer and regain your trust.
Furthermore, Ford believes it has identified the primary causes of stalling in the subject vehicles and has provided dealers with service information to assure prompt and proper repair of the vehicles. Ford?s investigation into the alleged defect in the subject vehicles has identified four potential root causes that account for approximately 90% of the alleged 3.OL V6 engine stalling reports on the subject vehicles. These potential root causes are: 1) a sticking pintle within the Idle Air Control Valve (lACy); 2) a malfunctioning check valve in the On-board Refueling Vapor Recovery System (ORVRS); 3) power interruptions to the Power Control Module (PCM) involving the PCM Power Relay; and, 4) power interruptions to the PCM caused by loose or out-of-position connectors in the Power Distribution Box (PDB).
Following is a more detailed explanation of these potential root causes.
IACV: Sludge deposits resulting from crankcase gases entering the intake manifold via the Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) system may inhibit free movement of the pintle?the component within the IACV that regulates the amount of air required to maintain engine idle speeds. If the pintle does not move to its proper setting the engine may stall from lack of air.
The PCM calibration has a feedback loop that checks for the amount of air at idle when vehicle speeds are less than 10mph. If the pintle valve does not move to the proper setting to maintain idle speed, the calibration directs more current to the solenoid that controls the pintle until the valve moves to the correct setting. This feedback loop was not operative for vehicle speeds over 10 mph in vehicles manufactured prior to January 16, 2002 and may be a contributor to engine stalling incidents that occurred during vehicle decelerations with the engine at idle. If the engine stalls for this condition it may be restarted immediately and does not result in a stranded vehicle.
On December 14, 2001 Ford made a service calibration change that leaves the idle air feedback ioop active at all vehicle speeds (see Appendix S of Ford?s March 15, 2002 response, Special Service Message #15589). In addition, Ford is redesigning the IACV to make it less sensitive to deposits from the PCV system and plans to incorporate this new component at Job #1 for the 2003 model year.
ORVRS: After refueling the ORVRS purges the vapor recovery canister by drawing fresh air through a rubber vent hose with the air inlet located in the engine compartment. Foreign debris and/or spider nests may plug this vent hose. If the vent is plugged and the check valve in the ORVRS that allows the discharge of clean air from the empty vapor recovery canister during refueling is stuck in the open position and then suddenly closes while the throttle is closed, the ORVRS would then send a fuel rich mixture into the intake manifold and the engine may stall. If the engine stalls for this condition it may be restarted immediately and does not result in a stranded vehicle.
In the SSM referenced above Ford directed dealership technicians to disconnect the vent line and blow shop air through the tube to clear any obstructions and replace the check valve if sticking open. Ford is redesigning the ORVRS to eliminate the check valve and reposition the clean air vent hose so that the inlet is located under the fuel filler door. These changes are scheduled to be incorporated into production in the later part of May 2002.
PCM: From Job #1 2001 through July 28, 2001 Omron supplied the power relays for the PCM on the subject vehicles. Our investigations into alleged stalling complaints determined that internal contacts within the Omron relay were mounted horizontally and could momentarily separate when subjected to certain vertical vibrations (i.e. driving over rough railroad track crossing). When these contacts separate the power is cut-off to the PCM and the engine stalls. Ford changed suppliers of the power relays from Omron to Hella on July 27, 2001. The Hella produced relays are not susceptible to internal contact separation caused by vertical movement/vibration.
Directions in the SSM referenced above instruct dealership technicians to replace all Omron power relays with Hella relays. As of July 27, 2001 all new vehicles have been produced with Hella relays. If the engine stalls for this condition it may be restarted immediately and does not result in a stranded vehicle.
PDB: A related manufacturing process issue involving the Power Distribution Box (PDB) was identified while investigating the root causes of PCM power interruptions. The female pins in the PDB into which the PCM power relay is inserted may be pushed out of position by the male pins on the bottom of the relay thereby interrupting power to the PCM and the engine may stall. In rare occurrences the female pins may lose permanent contact with the male pins on the PCM power relay and the engine would not restart. However, in most instances the contacts are found to be only loose and the power interruptions to the PCM are intermittent?most likely to occur when driving on severe road surfaces. Once the vibrations stop the driver could restart the engine.
As of August 1, 2001, Lear, Inc. (supplier of the PDB) has corrected their manufacturing processes to ensure the positive retention of the female pins in the PDB. Directions in the SSM referenced above instructed dealership technicians to inspect PDB pins for proper retention.
Based on the foregoing, the information provided in our March 15, 2002 response to this Preliminary Evaluation, and the Agency?s previous findings in starling investigations--that although engine stalling complaint rates are comparable to other safety defect investigations, the rate of stalling-related accidents was lower than in most investigations that have led to recalls, Ford does not believe that the reports of engine stalling in the subject vehicles present an unreasonable risk to motor vehicle safety.
Maybe Ford/Mazda will extend the warranty -- that was the carrot Honda threw to their owners.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
That is easy to say matter of factly, but when the engine dies you lose the POWER STEERING and POWER BRAKES! My wife is not as big and as strong as I am , so she has/had a hard time doing either when the stalls occured. The last stall happened in 3 lanes of traffic going up a hill at 45mph ---- and she almost got smashed in the rear end --- under those kind of conditions do you think you could have restarted the engine while moving???? Especially when our infant was in the back seat!!!
The percentage numbers posted here about 98.2% of Escapes not stalling is meaningless to the 1.8% of us who have experienced the problem.
Again I will say -- DON'T COMPLAIN and live with the problem or trade in the vehicle (taking a bath on lost value) --- do what we did ---- contact your attny general, the dispute board and have an attny write to Ford --- WE DID AND HAVE A 2003 EXPLORER that we only had to pay the diff. between the sticker on our escape and the explorer --
Mike
You should have waited a little longer. With all the incentives on the Explorer right now, they should be handing you money!
Odie
Anyone have similar problems? The noise is the worst when the back windows are down. dealership claims that the 2 other Escapes they drove (1 w/moonroof- the other without) did the same thing. So- they're trying to tell me this is an unfixable manufacturers defect
That is what probably should be done, but the debate is whether people know to do it or not. Not many people really think to do that, or they just didn't know that you could.
thebear2000,
Is something in the moonroof vibrating? I have never noticed any vibrations or loud noises coming from our moonroof unless you hold down on the black wind blocker that pops up in the front of the hole when you open the glass (we only did it once to see what would happen). Then you get kind of a deep pitched humming sound from the vacuum.
Ask the service person to let you drive one of the Escape's that he/she says has the same vibrations so you can judge for yourself. If he/she says no, go to the manager or take it somewhere else for service if you can.
Mike
$34,200 for an XLT Explorer? Is it an Eddie Bauer? My father-in-law just leased one of those and loves it.
A good friend bought a 2002 XLT Explorer (standard XLT package with the V8, pretty well equipped though) a couple of months ago and is paying less per month for it than we are on our Escape because of the 0.0% financing and rebates. I was a little annoyed when I heard that even though I like the Escape better. If only it were a little bigger.
Dealer4 is saying there's nothing they can do. I find it hard to believe- and I smell a huge class action suit if there are many people with this problem. Some say an easy fix is: "keep your windows closed" but- I happen to like the air coming in and that's not a viable solution!