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Subaru Outback VDC
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Comments
I have no idea what the guy is saying but its pretty obvious at the end which was his choice!
I'm not sure that test was entirely representative as they went at the hill from a stop. I think if the Volvo had momentum it would have made it. Most people don't stop before going up a hill (but it could easily happen)
It looks like there was a failure to on the volvo to transfer power to the rear wheels at very low speeds. In the initial assault up the hill you see the back wheels doing some driving but once the speed gets really slow its all over but the spinning of tires.
Great flick!
The wheelspin was pretty convincing, but was that really a XC? I find it hard that the XC's AWD wouldn't kick in with that kind of wheelspin.
Ken
Check this out:
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/volvo.html
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Thanks for the link. You learn something new every day. So I wonder if the difference (wasn't clear to me in the link) between the XC and a manual tranny Subaru is just the power split of 98/2 vs. 50/50.
I wonder how the MT Subaru AWD would have done on that test. I'm guessing that they showed a 4EAT model.
Ken
Noticed two things.
1) The OB he was driving was most likely a manual transmission. I determined this by
A) Its Europe, 90% of all European cars are manuals, makes sense that they would review the car most might buy (the XC on the other hand ONLY comes in Automatic I believe (could be wrong)
Listen closely to what he says. While the Subaru is cruising up the hill he says something that sounds pretty close to
"50% front 50% back"
That would make it the Manual.
2) That engine reving noise you hear when the XC is trying to get up the hill is NOT comming from the XC. It is from another car. You the same noise later at the end when the guy is talking outside of the car.
Still it makes a pretty convincing case for the Sube.
http://bilnytt.spray.se/nybil/Volvo%20XC%20mot%20Subaru/
Anyone here that can translate Swedish to English? ;-)
That noise is definitely the Volvo...it's the characteristic 5 cylinder engine note that I'm very familiar with. You can see the right front wheel kicking up dust/dirt while spinning freely. The sound clip isn't exactly the greatest quality, and someone else could very well be testing another vehicle.
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Bobby
You can get an add on CD changer (uses that space underneath the radio. Take some of that money you saved in negotiation and get one.
That McIntosh is an awesome system, blows any other system I have listened to away. You would have to drop some serious $$ to equal it in the aftermarket. Remeber its not just the radio but the speakers as well! In terms of raw power the bean comes in at 80W, the Mc has 200!. The Bean doesn't have a subwoofer (nothing like watching your rear view mirror shake). Also it doesn't have the depth of field. The Mc sounds really good no matter where you are in the car (except the trunk). Most stereo's don't have that good of a balance.
As far as the problem with inserting a CD while the vehical is in park that is odd. The only time that I cannot insert a CD when the vehical is in park is if it the vehical is not running (but you CAN eject the CD). If the vehical is running you should be able to insert and play a CD. If you can't you've got a defect (don't buy that one).
thanks all
Mike
We've learned to live with it and now its only a minor inconvenience. We do like that the cd changer is both readily available and does not require a cartridge. The stereo also sounds great but I probably have older ears than most participants of this forum.
Vince
http://www.bitman.com/soobinstall
bit
I don't think Subaru has a changer for the VDC yet. If Patti is reading, please correct me!
BTW, I talked to the service manager and he recommended that I use synthetic oil and the engine would last forever. My plan is to change over at about 1000 miles. Does anyone have recommendations as to the best oil? I have never used synthetics.
thanks,
Mike
As far as synthetic oil goes just make sure you get 100% synthetic, not those synthetic blends. Mobil 1 has a solid following but all the big boys make excellent oils.
If you want what is regarded as the best if price was no object you could always use Redline. But at $8 a quart I doubt you can afford it. Besides it will only really show its stuff if you are pushing your engine into the redline a lot (race car engines). Regular synthetic will do you just as good.
Greg
Thanks,
Greg
Theo
For the feature set of mid size AWD wagon, "luxury" interior (ie leather, climate control, sunroof, killer stereo), 6 cylinder engine and full traction control system the VDC is the cheapest wagon out there. The Passat is the closest at the same price point, has a few more whistles but is largely unavailible at this time and some reliability questions.
When I sat down and decided to buy I didn't think to myself "Do I really want to pay that much for a Subaru" I thought "Do I really want to pay that much for a car with these features". The badge name was inconsequential except for reputation of reliability and safety.
Truthfully if I could have done some picking and choosing I would have like to have gotten the H-6 and traction control and leather and ditched the moonroof, climate control, fancy plastic fake wood and stereo and saved several thousand dollars. If you look at how much each of these features hikes up the price of the car you see that you definatley get less bang for your buck on the VDC than the base model. Interestingly enough those the features that have impressed people (got the oohs and ahhs) that have ridden in the car are in order: Leather, Dual Moonroof (always good for an ooh or two), fancy plastic fake wood (especially the steering wheel), smooth quiet ride and stereo system. The 6 cylinder engine, AWD and traction conrol went largely unoticed.
The traditional Subaru market has been people requiring value and reliability (cheap good cars). I think with the advent of the Bean and VDC they are testing the waters to see how much people will pay for a Subaru and possibly trying to make inroads into Volvo's lock on the socially acceptable station wagon market. I just hope they don't leave the low end behind.
I had a Volvo for 6 years; overall a good car but a lot of things break and they cost a lot to fix. I also have a Toyota Supra; nothing ever breaks. I think the European reputation for fit and finish is mostly a myth, but it remains to be seen whether Subaru can sell the image change. Toyota did it with a complete name change, Lexus.
Mike
Patti
On a lark, I've been thinking about replacing my OB with an SUV. No big reasons except lack of sunroof, and seating position in the OB (I'm 6'4").
Looked at/test-drove new Olds Bravada, Chevy Trailblazer, Explorer and Highlander. Bottom line -- great engines in all of them, especially the new GM inline 6, ride in the Trailblazer and Explorer smooth until the first significant bump (Expl. with independent rear suspension no better than GM w/solid axle) and Bravada with air-ride the best. Heard rattles in the Explorer, saw fit/finish flaws on the GM'ers Seats in the Trailblazer were wonderful --I'll give it credit there. Highlander -- no improvement in seating position, tinny radio, fit and finish excellent except for a plastic wood fitting on right side of the dash. Highlander was best of the four.
After this romp through four car dealers, I won't be getting an SUV soon. With our Subarus, we get much better mileage, MUCH better reliability(than the Big 2 products even w/the computer on the VDC, much better handling, and much more value for the money. I chuckle at those who say $32K is too much for a VDC -- each of the SUVs I looked at stickered for $35-$36k. A Highlander with the VDC's bells and whistles would hit $35K as well.
After looking at these four, I concluded the only one worth considering was one that I DID NOT drive -- the $36-$38K Acura and mostly because of its excellent nav. system. But having read the rants about it on the acuramdx.com website, I'm dubious of it too.
...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
You mentioned that you were tall and felt cramped in your OB, what about you wife's VDC? The specs say it has 43.3" of leg room in the front, as compared to 42 in my ML430. The VDC is on my short list as a replacement for the ML. We had one of the first OB, and I found it very cramped. I suppose the easy answer is go to my local dealer and try one on for size.
Cheers
Pat
By the way, my brakes also squeak when backing up in the morning.
Warren
From a full stop, lighty accelerate (let the car jump you if it does), (quickly) let off the gas and immediately lightly accelerate again. You should be able to duplicate the hesitation that way. Meaning, that's probably what you've all done.
Theory:
(1) You're at 1st when the car jumped you
(2) you had let off the gas (reflex), the 4EAT shifted to 2nd.
(3) When you accelerate again (thinking you had your foot on the accelerator all the time), you already loss momentum and at 2nd gear it will take awhile.
I am not claiming to know the mechanics of the 4EAT, but that's one of its characteristics (for the light/feather footed) I've learnt from my '98 OB 4EAT.
Remedy. Y'all got to find the sweet acceleration spot on your VDC so it won't jump you. I let the car roll on its own a foot or two before I accelerate and, if I'm not the first car at the light, I give myself about 10' buffer from the car in front to provide an uninterupted runway. But if at the split second you sense that it is going to jump and you have clear road ahead, forget the gentle acceleration. Step on it. When it wants to go it wants to go.
Oh, try slowly accelerating too, like really dilly dallying inching the rpm up to around 1000rpm. The car probably will remind you rudely to step it up next time.
Crawling stop and go traffic should yield you both the hestitation and rude reminder (I shift to 1st if it is going to be a while).
Highway speed, when you accelerate to pass and you don't seem to be speeding up (the 4EAT is probably locked up on overdrive). Pedal to the metal or down shift to 3rd should do the trick.
Last things. Having the driver's seat adjusted too far back can also contribute to the hesitation experience, and if you have more than one driver using the car and both have different driving style...hmmm, get use to it?
Give the experiment(s) a try. Can't hurt or annoy you anymore than it has now. :-)
Patti
Thanks Subaru for the quick response.
Mike
Topic: Those Little Annoyances - what really bugs you?
Warren
Patti
I think the H6 Subies are a better value than the media has claimed, mostly becuase they look at retail prices ($33k, wow!). But ask around and people aren't paying that much. Autoweek did a survey and the average price for the H6 was just $28k, not even close. I've seen many for $27k or so.
Audi A6s command close to MSRP, as do Volvo XCs. And their base models don't have real leather or moonroofs. Add it up and you'll see a real world difference of about $10 grand.
The A4 is nice, but it's closer in size to the WRX wagon. The Outback is almost A6 sized.
-juice
I then took my wife (This is her car)to drive them, fully expecting to settle on the Passat (price and CU ratings). Price ruled out the A6; the interior space on the A4 eliminated it from my wife without a test drive; we drove the Passat but my wife said it jiggled too much. A funny thing happened on the way to the Volvo dealer, we went by the Subaru place and decided to look at the Outback. My wife, who does not recognize the term "prestigious car" liked the way the car looked, how it drove, how it handled, and all the basic stuff on the VDC. She then asked why would we want a Volvo for more money and get back into the high cost of repair. To her, the VDC was a bargain. Unfotunatly, car reviewers do understand what "prestigious cars" means.
For the first week of ownership, I have never been more pleased with a new car. The smoothness and quietness is quite a change from the Volvo. The McIntosh"s cd performance is amazing. My golfing partners did seem disappointed that I traded down from the Volvo to a Subaru. Oh, well.
Sorry for being long winded.
Mike
Hey, if someone else is paying I'll take a grey market RS4 Avant and a WRX STi, please.
-juice
I think that might be part of it, but I think most car reviewers have a mind set that an Audi (Volvo) is fundamentally a better car than a Subaru, that an elegant look of the Audi over the non conforming Subaru means more than proven reliability, just different priorities on what is important. Toyota could never have competed with a Mercedes in reviewer's eyes, but a Lexus can. The design, parts, and manufacturing processes for Toyota and Lexus are the same, but perception is very powerful.
I believe that Subaru owners actually like being a little non conformist; most reviewers are not.
Mike
-juice
Warren
Thanks!
Patti