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Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Volkswagen Passat

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    bsum70bsum70 Member Posts: 37
    Well said...
    Remember Japanese car was behind in the big 3 in making reliable sedan in the 60s and 70s? Now look who is behind now??
    May be Japanese are behind now on SUV and big truck but that doesn't mean they can't catch up. It is sad and wrong for them to abandon the regular mid size sedan. I heard that all next generation 'American' mid size sedan will based on foreign chassis. I think they should do it the opposite way: spend money and resources to develop chassis here and sent them back elsewhere! I guess global economy just change everything. It is harder and harder (costly) to see anything design and made in the U S of A any more...
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    maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    ...but as far as refinement goes, the Japanese rule there also. The Explorer may be the best selling SUV in the class, but just about every magazine will tell you that the Highlander and Pilot are much more refined than ANY Explorer, TrailBlazer and Durango. And if anyone hasn't noticed, the Explorer sells are not as good as they once were, I wonder why?
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    8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    I believe Car & Driver did do a comparison of the Highlander versus the Rendevous versus the Trailblazer, as the Highlander took top honors.
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    andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,392
    Excuse me for horning into the middle of this discussion but I just came across an interesting article on the development of the new '04 Accord.

    Evidently Honda's become concerned about the aging
    of the Accord buyer group and the increasingly stodgy image of the car. Focus groups have revealed to Honda that the younger, hipper crowd is drawn to the VW Passat and according to NW they benchmarked that car in both interior/exterior styling, handling and power.

    It makes interesting reading.: NW 8/5/02.

    Similar comments in Automotive News 7/29/02

    Whaddya think?

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

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    ljgusaljgusa Member Posts: 6
    Recently we shopped for a family car.

    We test drove cars like 2003 Passat, 2003 Camry XLE V6, 2003 Nissan Maxima SE/GLE ....My wife liked the Camry among all - seat higher, ride quiter and softer. And we actually placed an order for a 2003 CamryXLE with package #7, #8 and heated seat for $26800. But the next day after we left the Toyota dealer, the saleman called and said they made a mistake - he didn't take the #7 into account in calculating the price and wanted to add $700 more! We finally came up with the price $26945 and the saleman acted like he had done us a really big favor. We knew this was almost $800 over invoice so we cancelled the deal later in return of the 'favor'...

    We continued looking for our car (it's really good as there are so many choices and good deals out there right now ....) until we found an ads readed $21750 for a 2002 Honda EX V6.We negociated the price to $21300 and took the car to a spin - it's quicker than Camry and a more firm ride which I liked. And we ended up with taking the Honda home and are very happy that we saved $5700 while we still got a very nice car....
    The style of 2002 Honda model still looks good though people may think it's too plain. Simple and elegant, looks like it doesn't simply get outdated as it ages. No wonder The sales of Honda Accord in July beats Camry!
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    mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    We took a test drive of the two cars and found that:

    Camry Pros:
    Smooth acceleration and shifting.
    Overall good fit and finish.
    OK handling.
    Good styling.
    A lot of bang for the buck.
    Full Size Spare.

    Camry Cons:
    Infamous New model year problems - such as:
    Autotransmission fishes in the 40-50MPH range.
    Reported problems with Brake scratching.
    Reported problems with transmission in a cold start.
    Cheezy Wood Grain interior, A/C vents made of thin plastic - easier to break.
    Interior panels inconsisten - some had LCD panels, others had LED lights - yech.
    Lots of confusing options. Why get an XLE when you can load up an LE with the same options?

    Passat Pros:
    Really, really, really, REALLY fun to drive. I don't know what the Germans do to make it that way, but the driving experience is night and day better.
    Good acceleration, smooth shifting.
    Interior fit and finish is much more refined than the Camry's. Even the wood grain doesn't seem so cheesy (did I mention that I hate wood-grain?).
    Options are less confusing compared to Camry's.
    Full Size Spare.

    Passat Cons:
    Pricey. Very Pricey.
    Monsoon stereo is overrated. It sounded no better than my wife's Premium Cassette player... It could also be because of the drone of the saleman's pitch from the backseat...
    Some reported niggling problems with fragile electrical system.

    Both cars are really good cars, but something in the back of my mind is telling me that both cars aren't necessarily competing on the same category - becuase the Passat GLS V6 is like a loaded V6 Camry XLE - but the Passat GLX is way beyond the Camry, and already in the range of the Avalon or low end Lexus - as it is a very luxurious model.

    I was surprised that the driving experience of the Passat was that good, and the fit and finish couldn't be touched by Toyota. The New Model Release for 2002 has its fair share of problems, but they were a lot less than the Passat's when they redesigned the car - so you know the Camry's reliability will only get better. Comparing the 2003 Passats with the 2002s are a bit unfair, since it is likely that Toyota would have addressed many of the bugs found in the 2002 Camry. Reliability wise, I think both should be even - as it does take a few years to chake down a new model.

    If you are an emotional driver who loves the "driving experience", get the Passat, but the Camry is also a can't lose car IMHO.
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    etcbetcb Member Posts: 42
    I just got my Passat out of the shop with only 15k mile.. The #3 cylinder power module wwent bad. Rode tlike shi,.. and barely made back to the dealer.. Cover under warrent. otherwise a great German ride.. When I want to be pampered with cofort, I driv emy wifes Camry XLE with leather,.. smooth bif car ride.. I love them both.
    Lifes too short to split hairs over specs..
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    bj02176bj02176 Member Posts: 115
    If I had to choose between my 1999 Passat and my 2002 Camry, it would be the camry. The Passat had a dash rattle, camry has no rattles. The Passat hesitates shooting across an intersection, the engine stumbles at highway speeds, when cold it would surge, gas mileage on premium was not as good as the Camry, acceleration was about the same as the 4 cyl that I have. It's an overated car( the Passat, not the Camry). When I had it I drove my friend's 2000 Jetta, it's just as good.

    Bottom line the Passat is good but not as good as the better Japanese cars, Honda, Toyota and yes even the Mazda 626 (6 cyl) Yes I have had all of the aforementioned vehicles. Of course maybe the latest Passat has improved outrageously so. However I love that Passat dash vs the Camry's, there is no comparison. And the outlet for AC in the glove compartment to keep your sandwich cold, that's good because that's where the trunk release was, yes in the glove box, or maybe it was the fuel release, can't remember.
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    mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    Sorry to hear about that power module problem.

    I found both cars to be very comparable in performance, however, I don't have the luxury of getting BOTH cars or swapping them out every 5 years - so I have to dig deeper and look at the details to determine which one was "better" for my family.

    Some may say that's splitting hairs, but I just wanted to share the facts and feelings I got when I test drove both vehicles. Nobody should ever buy a car without researching it, giving it a thorough lookover and taking it for a testdrive.
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    moyotamoyota Member Posts: 3
    After reading the criticism of Camry interiors I must say that while I agree that the LE and XLE interiors have styling cues that can be traced back to Camrys over a decade old (a nice way to say "boring"), the 2002/2003 SE interior is new and IMHO a cut above the other models.


    For full disclosure, I admit that my wife and I just purchased a 2002 SE V6. Our Camry is Salsa Red, has 16" five spoke alloy wheels, black and chrome exterior trim, charcoal black cloth seats with black and grey interior upholstery with gun metal trim accents. The three spoke steering wheel and the control panel, with it's chrome and metallic dials with fluorescent orange lettering/numbering, have a sporty euro look without looking phoney or contrived.


    Take a look at the "Photos + 360" gallery at http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/camry. The SE is not specifically listed, but on the interior pictures there are two shots of a black SE interior, one from the open driver side door, the other looking straight at the steering wheel and control panel. Compare them to the taupe XLE interior shots to see if you agree.

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    th83th83 Member Posts: 164
    The Camry is meant to be a comfortable and luxurious family sedan that has no aspiration to be sporty. Why try to make it something it clearly wasn't cut out to be. There's a reason why Buick doesn't offer a Century Sport, it would be an oxymoron on wheels.
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    moyotamoyota Member Posts: 3
    The Camry SE is about as silly as the Passat and the Altima which are also sporty sedans. I stick by my opinion that the SE styling is well done. We purchased the SE not because we confused it for a sports car, it's not. We purchased it because it looks more up to date.

    There is nothing wrong with a comfortable and luxurious sedan. I have a '93 Camry XLE V6 in my driveway that we purchased just for those reasons. Even though the '93 and the '02 XLE are a decade apart in age, the interior of the '93 and the interior of the '02/03 are very similar... too similar. The point is that Toyota has demonstrated that they can produce an updated interior that has style. Why not update the LE and XLE?
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    8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    The sportier version of the Buick Century is the Buick Regal.

    My old 88 Camry had some metallic trim bits....
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    mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    Though I never drove it...

    I think the SE exists to satisfy the "niche" market of people who want a "sportier" ride in their comfort/parental cars.

    Like the Grand Caravan "Sport" minivan!
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    maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    It's sportier looking than the LE and XLE models, and I like it's interior with it's metallic trim pieces. I'd definately consider the Camry SE I4 5spd.
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    bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    All Camrys (Camries?) should have been given the SE suspension tuning and interior treatment without designating a separate SE model. As for the rear spoiler, now THAT IS silly on a car like the Camry (or Accord, or Altima for that matter).
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    maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    I don't like them at all, I think they detract from the looks of cars. If I were to get an Altima today, I'd have the spoiler removed, same with the Camry SE.
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    mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    I think some people tack on spoilers or other things to their cars to make it theirs look a bit different from the run-of-the-mill cars.

    With all the Camry's and Accords running around, some people would like to stand out a little bit.

    I personally think spoilers get in the way when you're closing the trunk.
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    bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    Trying to clean the space under the spoiler can also be a pain in the a**.
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    8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    waxing that space can be a pain
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    michaeljaymichaeljay Member Posts: 5
    What's wrong with a little gingerbread on any car? I think the spoiler on the Camry SE sets it off a bit. I think anyone who bothers to post a note here has an above average interest in cars, so washing and waxing the space under a spoiler should be FUN! So, while my entire Camry SE is dirty and dust-covered, I'm going outside right now and wash and wax only my spoiler just to spite all you spoiler-haters. And I promise I won't make fun of your subwoofers and body kits!
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    mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    Can you take a picture after you wax it? I want to see how well you can clean that stuff out! :)

    And don't talk to me about inconsiderate folks who insist on sharing their "music" via their subwoofers!

    Did anyone see the new Accord? The interior looks very futuristic. Unfortunately, some interior designer went crazy with the tacky wood trim...
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    icstarsicstars Member Posts: 18
    I like the Camry SE I4, unfortunately, the dealer here only has a 2002 auto, and I want a 5-speed. Steering responsive, grips pavement with larger performance tires, no squealing in tight/quick 360-turn on pavement, good controls. (When driving a 5-speed LE--same engine, trans as SE--wrote that accel and handling were "ok" but wondered if the shifter was pitched slightly toward passenger instead of driver.)

    I drove the Honda Accord LX 03 today. I prefer a sporty feel. I was thusly unimpressed with this car and surprised with tire sing near 70 mph and thrump over moderate highway pavement anomalies. Body lean apparent on off-ramps and turns, and braking not as nice as Nissan Altimas and the Camrys. Engine whine was quite prevalent.

    I drove a Nissan Altima 2.5S after the Accord, and the first notable difference was the quiet, responsive acceleration from stop for city driving. The 2.5S doesn't have a sport suspension, but handled better than the Accord. Interior is nothing extravagant on either of these cars, better sound (fidelity, that is) in the Nissan. Nissan has a comfy driver seat with lumbar support; its msrp is $2,500 more than the Accord LX. Wish I had been able to drive the Accord EX.

    I also drove an 02 Nissan Altima 3.5SE. Two words: whoo hoo. More engine than that car needs (until speed limits are changed to 85), responsive 5-speed, nice shifting action. Luxurious feel, sure braking (no ABS on the one I drove). This car also has the best steering wheel controls.

    Quick Analysis: so far, Nissan impresses with accel and handling, but lacks sport tuned suspension except on V6 models. Accord is great on paper. Camry SE seems to be solid 4cyl sporty sedan. I'll drive that one again, but I have some hesitation based on low rating on side-impact crash tests by NHTSA.

    Next stop: reliability research, resell values, therapy to get the 2.5SE off my mind (by far the best looking and most fun of all the above--I didn't, I mean don't, want to buy a V6! I expect to increase, not decrease, fuel efficiency with a new car; I currently drive a 93 Wrangler than gets better mileage than the 3.5SE, which may be as low as 18 mpg city.)

    KK
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    mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    Have you test driven the Passat? I'd like to know your opinions on it compared to the others you test drove.

    P.S. Great post!
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    ssaclubssaclub Member Posts: 13
    I'm one of the younger (less than 40) car buyers who is being pulled away from Honda in favor of the Passat. The '03 Accord, though, looks interesting to me. I worry about rumor/reputation of VW reliability, true or untrue.

    Any Passat owners or potential buyers drive the 03 Accord or have comment?
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    rbruehlrbruehl Member Posts: 85
    I currently drive a Toyota Solara which I enjoy very much after having bad experience with two transmissions replaced in my former 1999 Honda Accord V-6. Test drove the V-6 Altima and it is a rocket but I was not impressed with the quietness or the cheap looking interior. The Toyota Solara is a lot quieter. Nissan is on the right track though but it needs to upgrade its interior and add more sound deadening materials to the Altima.
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    mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    The complaints from what I have seen about the 2001.5 models have been less than the pre-2001.5s - but maybe time hasn't become a factor yet.

    The Accord is a new release, and should be treated as one in terms of potential reliability or problems.

    From the posts I have seen at this site and at vwvortex, I'd say the reliability concerns should be minimal.
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    kartezkartez Member Posts: 48
    I used to post on this forum before but I do not post here any more. Here's my 2 cents on the Passat.

    Given these three cars if size for price is the only consideration then Camry or Accord will do fine.
    Passat, despite being perceived as less reliable than the other two, is a better car if you bring in fun factor. Passat still kicks camcord's butt. My car is little over two years old and in spite of being driven hard it has been reliable to a great extent. Overall, I am very pleased with my car. In these two years I've had the chance to drive many a FWD cars and I think Passat still rules the mid-size lineup .

    Having praised the Passat, here are its faults - Has a very soft suspension (still better than camcord). I had to go for a stiffer aftermarket suspension.
    Shifter feel is just about O.K. (Newer models still feel the same way)
    Cup holders are a joke (this has been fixed since then).

    Hope this helps.
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    babybbabyb Member Posts: 18
    I currently have a 2001 Honda Accord coupe, and my lease is done in 6 months. I am really interested in a Passat, even though I work for a Honda dealership. I would like to say that there have been problems with a few 2003 Accords, but that is to be expected. However, I am not so sure about staying with Honda since I would like something different, and something a little bit more fun. Does anyone else have any comments. (Thank you for some input kartez).
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    maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    They have pretty nice styling, are pretty roomy, and are refined, but they can become expensive. I am still considering a Passat GLS 1.8t. Don't feel bad about liking the Passat, one of the managers at the local Honda dealer in my area drives a 2001.5 VW Passat GLX in Mojave Beige.
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    ssaclubssaclub Member Posts: 13
    Can you elaborate on what kinds of problems you're seeing with 2003 Accord? A big part of the VW vs. Accord equation is reliability, thanks.
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    babybbabyb Member Posts: 18
    We have been seeing messages daily from our communication with Honda. The techline wants to know of any problems with excessive windshield noise, moonroof leaks, questions about transmissions (the new 5 speeds). We all know that first year productions have problems, with the exception of the 1997 Honda CR-V.

    I have always been aware of the possible problems with both the 4 and 6 cylinders in the past. I think it will be a question of how the new transmissions hold up. That is what I don't want to wait for. I have gone through tranny problems with a Honda before.
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    cmp1223cmp1223 Member Posts: 6
    I found this topic and thought you guys could help. I'm 16 and will be getting my first car soon. My dad and I have agreed that is should be safe, Japanese or European for reliability, have side air bags, a V6 engine, a sedan, and in the $16500 range. My top choices are: 2000 Accord EX V6, 2001 Millenia S, 1999-2000 Passat V6, 2000 Galant, or a 2000 Camry XLE V6. Can anyone comment on these cars? Should I add any to the list? The Accord seems great, but it doesn't really stand out anywhere (ex: powerfull engine, great handling, great sound system). I'm really not into upgrades.

    Thanks
    -Chris
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    bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    European cars generally are not known for their reliability. Personally I think Mitsu is a notch below Honda/Toyota so I would probably throw out the Galant. The truth of the matter is that none of the cars in your list would be consider an "exciting" car for someone your age. The Accord would probably be my choice. You'd find it to be a very satisfying car, albeit a little bland. Keep in mind the Accord does have an issue with the auto tranny, so before you buy make sure they can provide a history of the repairs to the car and be extra alert as to how the tranny performs during your test drive.
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    trlykatrlyka Member Posts: 82
    Congrats and welcome to the driving world.

    Although I own a Passat, I too would have to agree with bodydouble in that the Accord would be the most exciting and safe car for you. I also agree with the comments on the Mitsu cars. To me, the Toyota is certainly not a young persons car. I wouldn't want one and I'm 31 yrs. old.

    BUT....

    I never thought I would love my Passat as much as I do.

    Back in May when I was searching for a used car, I had my heart set on a Jetta ('99 and newer) and my budget was $10,000 range. I remember when I first saw the new ones back in late 1998 and I wanted one since. When I started looking, I didn't realize how well they hold their value and I was set back by the cost. Thinking I couldn't afford one, I started looking at American cars since their resale values are usually a lot lower. There was plenty to choose from, but the American cars just didn't excie me enough. In my travels up and down the HWY looking at used cars, I came across a used 1999 Passat GLS V6 with all the trimmings. It was sitting at a gas station. It was being sold by a private owner who lived near by. I stopped and looked thinking it was a Jetta, but it was a Passat. It had about 95-96,000 miles on it. Before calling the owner, I found out that he wanted only $9,500 for it. I came home that night and looked up the value for this car even with 100,000 miles on it and it was still worth well over $12,000. I also did a Carfax report on it. The title was clean. I really didn't (think) I wanted the Passat, but it was a good price and I was running out of time. I hadn't been able to decide on anything and I didn't have a car of my own for about a month now. I test drove it with the mechanic and I fell in Love right then and here. I didn't want him (the mechanic)to know it, but I wanted the car. I told him I would be in touch and went home to think about how much I would offer the owner. I met with him once to discuss the price. I started at $7,500 and he went to $9,000. I was getting help with paying for it, so I could only go to $8,000. I had to drive away since he would only go to $8,500. The windshield needed replacing and we came to an agreement of $8,150.

    I think the car was sitting for a couple of months and probably because of the high mileage. Don't let that scare you if there are maintenance records showing oil changes and other upkeep work. VW like the Japanese cars, build long lasting, reliable and safe cars. I just think the Passat is probably the most "Mature" car of the ones you mentioned. It looks good, it has a great reputation, and it really is fun to drive.

    Good luck on your decision :)
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    rickslickrickslick Member Posts: 27
    I too have always loved VW. When I was in college
    I almost bought a Jetta GLI, 87 and 89. But when it came down to buying I always went with Accord, have owned plenty. The VW were always more fun to drive but I was always worried about their reliabilty record. By viewing the VW owners boards I have heard some long time owners say the same thing,that after a year or 2 things just start happening where the car visits the shop alot. I have 2 friends that own 95 Jettas and they have had their share of problems with the car like computers being replaced, engine modules and the like. And then there is resale where VW normally doesn't do well. To this day I am still in the Honda family, driving 01 Acura TL.
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    cmp1223cmp1223 Member Posts: 6
    Thanks for the advice. I forgot to mention, I'm also looking at the 2000 Maxima. Its got a nice engine and good handling, but jeez those taillights downright suck. The VWs seem to have more problems than Hondas, but still good. Also, does anybody know the general cost of repairs and regular maintenance? I would think it would be cheaper to fix/maintain a Japanese car that a German. What about Toyota/Honda- I hear Toyotas are easier to fix, but not necessarily cheaper.
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    trlykatrlyka Member Posts: 82
    The guy I bought the '99 Passat from bought a 2002 Maxima. He said he liked it, but he missed his Passat. The Maxima does have a great engine (one of the best 6 cyl.-so I hear). I always liked that about them, but the styling has something to be desired. I feel it's kind of big or bulky as compared to the Honda, Toyota or Passat. Like a line backer as compared to a running back. I like the Passats fit and finish qualities.

    Anyway, you really must test drive each car and see what feels good to you. That's really the way to decide.

    When my Mom was shopping for a new car, we were at a Nissan dealer and I was sitting in a new Altima with a sport package. It was red and black inside. It was really quite neat. I don't like red, so I wouldn't get it, but it was still cool looking. Those cars are pretty reasonable in price. You may find a 2002 leftover in your price range. Even the Sentras are very popular.
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    maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Since you and I are about the same age, I thought I would add my little 5 cents since my two cents are ALWAYS free. I am 16 as well, but I turn 17 this thursday!!!!

    Anyways.

    The Millenia is not a bad looking car, plus the reliability on this car has always been pretty good as well. The styling is great, it's roomy enough (to me), and it's pretty powerful (S models)

    I also like the Accord, it's roomy, refined, has great reliability and resale value, and is just a great car but...they are everywhere, and somewhat boring. But I like them, especially the EX models with the stick shift.

    The same can be said about the Camry.

    The Maxima is nice too, it's just as roomy as the Accord/Camry, but it's more fun, and more powerful. I also like the styling, though I seem to be in the minority about that.

    The Passats are nice, I actually stopped tonight and looked at some. I am really considering the Passat, especially a used GLX with 5spd manual. They are very refined, and pretty roomy, but I just don't trust the reliability of them yet. They look good though.

    As for me. I am looking at the new Accord, Camry SE, Altima 2.5s and 3.5se, Maxima Se, Passat GLS or used GLX, and the new Mazda 6. Right now I am leaning toward the Accord EX with leather.

    But from the cars that you are considering, I'd go with the Millenia S or Passat GLSV6.
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    mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    VW has been ranked somewhere around average when it comes to reliability. If you put any weight on Consumer Reports' ratings, the Passat is the most reliable car VW fields today (Jetta and others are ranked as average or less). Maybe it's because it's made in Germany, or maybe because it doesn't use the same parts as the other VWs, but it is more reliable.

    That said, I doubt that the Passat's reliability will come close to, or match that of Honda and Toyota. That is simply not an overriding focus of VW - but if look at the little things about the Passat, it does look more solid in construction, as well as fell.

    Some people give them a lesser ranking than Honda/Toyota. I give them the same if not less than the American Automakers - here's why. Reliability is below average (like Ford/GM), but when it comes to recalls, they have an excellent track record for hiding them. It's just the way they do it here, and in Japan - so Mitsu has zero credibility with me.

    Maintenance-wise, the Honda will be cheaper to work on and repair than the Passat - from the bills I have seen. The more "upscale" a car is, the more likely it is to be more expensive to maintain - that is the nature of the beast.

    Performance wise, driving the Passat will leave you grinning way after you get out of the car. The drive is just untouchable.

    Given your age, you didn't mention whether or not you will be responsible for repairs, insurance, etc. etc. - but if you are responsible for repairs, stick with Honda or Toyota, they are cheaper to repair and less likely to break for a used car.

    It is always important to get repair history of the vehicle in question, as well as having a good mechanic check it over for potential problems. A high mileage car will give you a high-mileage set of repairs, regardless of reliability.

    Lastly, thank your parents for caring enough to spend a lot of $$ to put you in a safe car.
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    steveiowasteveiowa Member Posts: 51
    The Camry will probably outlast the Passat...because the Camry sits in the garage while I drive the Passat. It's simply a LOT more fun to drive. The Camry has a better reliability record and it's more economical (my Passat is a V6 4Motion (AWD)...but I view it as a driving appliance.

    A wise man once told me "The Japanese make cars for passengers. The Germans make cars for drivers." He was right.
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    bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    Was the wise man a VW ad exec? :)
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    bluetahoebluetahoe Member Posts: 4
    How about considering Passat with 1.8T engine? It pulls just as well as some v6's out there and it is quite fun to drive especially with manual transmission. I do enjoy listening to the turbo spool up in my '00.
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    vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    2000 Toyota Camry XLE V6

    43K summary

    Gas consumed: 1828.434 Gallons
    Cost of Gas: $2910.56
    Average Economy: 23.55 MPG
    Best: 34.3 MPG
    Worst: 16.8 MPG
    Gas Cost per mile: 6.66 cents

    Maintenance Cost: $2388.28
    Maintenance Cost per mile: 5.5 cents

    Miles Covered: 43,670
    Running Cost (Gas + Maintenance): $5298.84
    Running Cost per mile: 12.13 cents

    Bought in November 1999 for $27,538.
    Sold in October 2002 for $16,700.

    Depreciation: $10,838
    Depreciation per mile: 24.8 cents

    Direct Cost of Ownership: 36.93 cents per mile

    Insurance approx. $600 per year for 3 years = $1800
    Insurance per mile: 4.12 cents

    Total Cost of Ownership: 41.05 cents per mile
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    bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    I have a 2002 1.8T Passat with about 6k miles and I consistantly get 30 MPG on the highway averaging between 75-80 mph sometimes with air on.

    In the city my average is about 25 MPG.

    The performance of this car amazes me. It's fast enough so that I was beginning to wonder if it was "chipped" since it was a demo driven by the sales manager, but it still gets great mileage. I buy my 93 octane gas at Sam's Club where it's not much more than regular at other stations.

    I just read an article on the 03' Accord and they said that Honda used the Passat for a benchmark, and they did not quite make it yet. The Passat is still the better car according to this writer.
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    bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    only if you disregard reliability. And, just my personal opinion, but the Passat's (tall and narrow) styling has never bowled me over.
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    mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    One of the things that always surprised me with the Passat, compared to the Accord and Camry, was the amount of thought the engineers put into the ergonomics of the car.

    When you look at the top of the line trim-levels (ie. Passat GLX, Accord EX, Camry XLE), the Passat does come out a lot more expensive than the other two, but it just has those "Luxury" features you wouldn't see in its price range.

    For example, power seats with memory that remember your seating and mirror position based on which remote keyless entry FOB you use.

    The interior is also very tastefully lit up at nights - to the point where you'd just want to take it for a spin at nights to see the well orchestrated night consoles.

    The drive is what many people concentrate on, and even I have to agree, it does outperform the bland driving characteristics of the Camry. Don't get me wrong, the Camry is a beautiful car, and it does drive very well, but the Passsat just drives so much better.

    Shifting for the Passat was a shocking experience for me. I never understood the word "silky shifting" until I drove the 6speed automatic. You can barely tell when it is shifting - and at 190 measly horses, one has to wonder how they managed to do that.

    The only downside I can see with the Passat is the cost. VWs have always been priced higher than their Japanese competitors - which in turn are priced higher than their American competitors. Moving up from a well appointed GLS to a luxury level GLX is a steep price to pay.

    However, a lot of the safety features are tacked on the base GLS trim, and for an extra $280+ you can add on ESP (electronic stabilization program) - making it one of the safest cars on the road.

    But, getting back to the point, VW definitely put a lot of little touches into the Passat, which really adds to the car's value.
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    mliongmliong Member Posts: 231
    The other shortfall of the Passat is the measly 190HP V6 engine. It's still a competent and fast engine, but with Honda and Toyota offering engines in the 240HP powerband range, that's kinda skimpy.
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    maple49maple49 Member Posts: 66
    I don't get the appeal of the Passat. Personally I think it is kind of ugly. I think all those chrome accents look cheesy. The interior is nice but in my opinion no better than the previous generation Accord. I have driven 2 of the 1.8 Turbos and I was not overly impressed. There was a significant lag when the gas pedal was hit. Once the turbo kicked in it did accelerate nicely. The ride and steering were fine but I was not "blown away". Maybe I just expected more based on all the hype.

    I know one experience is not indicative of a consistent pattern but a friend of mine just sold his 2002 Passat (bought in 2001). In a little less than a year the car was at the dealer for about 4 weeks with various problems. They were all electrical (CD player burned out, tail lights did not work, dashboards lights went out, multiple times the car would not start). Fortunatly he was able to sell for only $1000 less than what he paid (not including tax, etc).

    I'm sure many people have great experiences with the Passat. However, I will pass when I make my next purchase.
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    8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    Since when does the Passat have a 6-speed auto?

    Must be a typo, because it's 5-speed auto
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