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BMW 5-Series Sedans

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  • Could you please explain how the 2007 will be cheaper? Thanks in advance.
  • bdkinnhbdkinnh Posts: 292
    >I think we've been through this before

    Yep, we have. I'm the guy in Salem looking for a house in Windham.

    >New Hamster

    New Hamster != Cow Hampshire != New Hampshire :P
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Ding-Dong! Oh yeah, I remember now. :blush:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • Could you please explain to me how the 2007 will be cheaper? Thanks in advance.
  • I have had 2 RWD drive 5-series since '99 that I drove during the last 7 Winters in the Boston area. Yes - get a dedicated set of wheels and snow tires for the car. You will be more confident in the snow especially on grades and Interstate lane changes.

    I currently have Dunlop Winter Sport M3s. But I originally used Michelin Pilot Alpins. I also have used Michelin Pilot Sport A/S but not in the Winter. Although I did try them on a first winter storm before the changeover, they would not work well all winter long.

    I have only used the Dunlops one season and they work well but I would consider the Michelin Pilot Alpin 2s. BTW - a relative in Mass has a 545i with the Dunlops and likes them.
  • Hi All,

    I found an '02 540 with 20K miles. The dealer (non-BMW) obtained it as a lease return, and is asking $33K. My main concern is that it is not CPO, and has no factory warranty. He offered to sell a 3yr/100k extended warranty for $2.4K.
    What can I do to mitigate my risks in this deal? How can I tell if these were 'hard' miles...

    On the other end of the mileage spectrum, I found an '02 540 with 52K miles from a BMW dealer, and this one is CPO, which adds 2 years to the already expired factory warranty. This one can be had for $27.5K

    Which of these 2 would you buy?
  • Both cars have probably had the same maintenance performed, the "free" oil changes and whatever else BMW covers. Check their maintenace histories with the dealer and if the low mileage car has not been wrecked and everything else is comparable, you can get 32000 miles for $8000 (25 cents per mile). The first owners paid at least $1.00 and $.50.
  • Since I don't know even half of what I might need to know to make this statement, I will explain how I came to make it and if what I have to say applies to you a little or a lot, you may find yourself driving off in a 2007.

    All cars regardless of how "acquired" are subject to certain "things" that translate into TCO (total cost of ownership) or TCU (total cost of use, which for most people is the most appropriate way to look at cars that do not appreciate in value -- the BMW depreciates just to make that point clear.)

    A 2007 car will have a higher residual after a given period of time than an older car. A 2007 car will probably be subvented (which means the financing arm of the mfgr offers the customer a financial incentive that puts either the residual artificially high and/or the money factor/interest rate artificially low.) A 2007 car, such as the BMW will mean everything is NEW and all maintenance items, too, are "included" in the "acquire" price.

    Overall -- sometimes, to most times -- it is difficult for the used car to compete with all the new car has going for it.

    My wife's BMW was $47K. Her payment $581/36months/45K term, with $250 down payment. At the end of 36 months, she owes nothing and HAS nothing.

    We can't make the math work even if the car coulda been had at 0% interest -- for even at 48 months and 0%, the payment would have been $1,000 per month and the warranty woulda been over at 50K miles, etc etc etc.

    It does NOT always work -- my suggestion, that is -- I submit that it works at least 1/2 of the time if you factor in "permanent" (usage) payments and compare them with the payments over the use time frame you might imagine were you to acquire the car in some other way.

    My Audi, too, another example (and of the 30 some cars my wife and I have had since 1976, probably 26 of them have been leased because the math works out slightly better plus you never have a car out of warranty and never are driving more than a three [model] year old car at any time) $53K car, about $650/mo/36/45K virtually nothing down, bla bla bla.

    A brand new Chevy that is $30,000 at 0% interest is $500 per month for 60 months -- if you drive 15K miles per year, and you use really high mileage tires, etc etc etc, you may end up at month 61 with a perfectly usable "beater" that at least you didn't pay any interest on the note you used to acquire it with. But, it will have 75K+ miles on it and will need parts, repairs and hopefully no major issues to contend with will have cropped up in that will be of any con$equence.

    A "look see" at a 2007 is free -- and I submit for your consideration: it may cost equal to or less than TCU-wise than your alternative.

    If I am wrong, in this case, I will not be shocked -- nor will I if I am right.

    A man I work with just bought a brand new three year old Mustang GT with 6,000 little old lady miles on it. He paid about 45% of the MSRP from three years ago. I guess he got a good deal, he certainly loves the car and with only 6K miles on it, it does indeed "look new."

    With that kind of cap cost difference, well, that would be hard to pass up. Typically, the off-MSRP amount has to be quite large to beat the TCU of the then latest and greatest.

    I hope this is not too general, I have previously gone through extensive and detailed cost analysis and posted my findings here. Suffice it to say, "your mileage may differ," but I am adamant that it is worth seriously looking into IF you are willing to look at it from the TCU perspective rather than the day 1 acquisition cost.

    Just a thought -- or three. . . .

    Good luck. :shades:
  • It makes perfect sense. Thanks for taking time and explaining it in detail.
  • I have viewed numerous sites and questioned many individuals. The answer seems to go back and forth.
    Does BMW have a HOLDBACK (2%)????
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
  • vizviz Posts: 50
    Hello,
    Thanks for the detailed explanation. It seems like what you say is right. Please shed light on the following:

    1) What model (with options) cost you 47K? Who was your lender/dealer?
    2) I bought a 2003 530I in 2004 (with 2k miles)for 42K. It has sports package, nav, parking sensors, cold weather package etc. Went through leasecompare.com for leasing it ,and ended up paying 599 for 39 months with 0 down. I had 12k miles/yr.
    Right now I am 49,600 miles and still have 6 months to go to get out of the lease. Now I am planning to sell it out and get another BMW (if I can afford it). Basically reasons for selling it off are :
    - In winter even with winter tires and sandbags in the trunk it is had to drive (at least for me) in NE Ohio.
    - At the rate I am putting miles on it, I would end up paying around 3k for the extra miles while returning it.

    What do you suggest? Getting a new car like X5 or 525xi these days with winter package seems to cost me around 700/month. I used the calculator in www.leasecompare.com. Where am I going wrong? How come you ended up with paying 600/month? Please advise.

    3) Thinking of buying Cadillac SRX , by returning the BMW. Till now I have always owned BMW, but now I have a family and affording it seems to be a bit of uphill task for me (at least for coming year or so). Any comments on SRX?

    Regards,
    Viz
  • Our 2005 X3 3.0 with almost every option box checked (except auto trans) was what cost $47K -- I should have clarified it was NOT a 5 series, sorry if there is an issue with this.

    It should make little difference in the meaning I was attempting to impart, however. Perhaps the 5 or the X has a higher (or lower) residual and perhaps BMW financial (our lender) had a special lease deal on the 5 that is not on the X or vice versa and etc.

    Overall, the spirit of what I said I stand behind and it is largely based on experience.
  • #1 Ask your insurance carrier for the information you mention wondering about in your post.

    #2 Any car, practically, involves an emotional decision NOT simply a financial decision. If you could go get one anytime you wanted, even if it meant a "car payment," it is clear that the emotional need has not overtaken the pragmatic "want" or need.

    #3 I am certain there are excellent used Bimmers to be had any almost any given point in time.

    #4 German cars CAN be breathtakingly expensive to repair -- I am not, however, suggesting that EVERY German car will even need such repairs.

    #5 What 5 series of any age and configuration is best for you is impossible for someone else to determine, but it is possible for someone else to give you some input if you would describe what your "near term" (6 months or less) real intentions actually are. Generally speaking the i6 versions of the 5 series are "popular" with the car magazines and owners alike -- within limits, usually the bigger number after the 5 signifies a car that is more well equipped since more "stuff" comes standard on a 530 than on a 525, broadly and generally speaking.

    #6 There is NO SUCH THING as common sense, don't even go down that path, for common sense is ONLY COMMON to ONE person, you. For what I think is common sense may be so far off the wall to you that it would be as if I only spoke Chinese and you only spoke Spanish yet we were forced to communicate in Klingon -- to be fair to each other!

    What?
  • cmr530icmr530i Posts: 278
    Can you tell me the type of Axxis brake pads you put on your 530 when you had it? I will probably be needing new pads soon and remembered that you liked the Axxis due to less residue. Also, did you have your BMW dealer put them on?
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I used the PBR/Axxis Original Deluxe pads which have since been replaced by the Deluxe Plus pads. I did the job myself and it was a piece of cake, maybe a half of an hour per wheel. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,030
    A reporter seeks to talk with current owners of the BMW 5-Series. Please send your daytime contact info and the model year of your vehicle to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, September 27, 2006.

    Thanks,
    Jeannine Fallon
    Corporate Communications
    Edmunds.com

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • I have a titanium metallic 2001 525i with the sport premium package with 78K miles that I purchased CPO from BMW almost two years ago. My 5 has been relatively trouble free thus far. My CPO warranty is up in Jan '07 so I recently started looking for an extended warranty. I found from a "very reputable" company but the warranty only covers components related to the engine, transmission, and drive axle (no coverage for electrical systems). I can get this coverage for an additional 3yrs/60K miles at 0% deductible for roughly $1500. Most other extended warranty companies do not provide 'bumper-to-bumper' warranties for vehicles with more than 75K miles.

    Seeing that this warranty will not cover electrical components, what is my potential exposure from the electrical components that may fail over the next 40K miles? I love my 5 and want to keep but I have not problem selling it if I can't get "proper/affordable" coverage for January 2007 and beyond.

    Any assistance current/previous 5-series owners can provide would be appreciated. Thanks.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    Put the $1500 in a money market account, find a good independent BMW tech, and keep on driving. I seriously doubt that you will spend anywhere close to $1500 on non-scheduled repairs. As I stated in response to another post:

    Relax! Most of the "horribly expensive BMW repair" stories are spread by people-many are envious fools, while others are just plain fools- who heard that his best friend's sister's college roommate knew a guy who had a dentist who told him that it cost him $3000 to change the oil on his 318i. Yes, there ARE some dealers and independents who grossly overcharge their customers. Having said all that, there are good dealers and independents out there who charge fair prices and offer a CCA discount.
    I ran a 1997 528iA to over 130K miles and my service and repair costs averaged $80-$90 per month. We only sold it because my wife wanted an X3. I needed to keep my US built Wrangler for political reasons. As it turned out, I wish I had the 5er back. The new owner loves it...
  • My phrase is "German cars can be breathtakingly expensive to repair."

    This, however, does not suggest I think they will need much in the way of repairs.

    For some, $1,500 is peace of mind.

    I consider it "insurance." I would never drive my car without insurance even if it were legal to do so.

    The number of claims I have made in a lifetime of driving are but a mere fraction of the premiums I have made.

    I am suggesting one do what one feels most comfortable with and I do agree the chances of spending $1500 on warranty claims is slim.

    Also, though, maintenance on these Germans can be nearly breathtakingly expensive -- but that is another policy -- usually $3000 -- and I am really not sure about that.

    My friends 58,000 mile young X5, flawless in virtually every way, needed new front brakes -- the car was used frequently for communting between Cincinnati and Indianapolis. New brakes + oil change = $950. Yep, the oil change was $800 all by itself.

    Just kidding. The oil change was probably about $49.95 and the rest was for the brake pads, rotors and labor.

    My friend, pondered the cost of the extended warranty+maintenance pack and said, hmm, $1800 for the front and rear brakes alone, makes this a $1200 decision and the fact that the other "routine" items are hardly ever less than $100, does give one pause to consider such a package.

    Just a thought.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    As I put it in another topic...

    In my twenty three years of BMW ownership(E3, E24, E28, E36/5, E39, E83) I simply haven't found that to be the case. Maintenance and repair costs for my 1995 104K Club Sport have averaged a bit under $40 per month. My E24 M6 was a bit pricey to run, but even then the costs weren't that much out of line. I believe the most I ever spent on one shop visit was around $1200- and that covered replacement of the radiator, water pump, and PS pump. I still kick myself for letting that one go-though I did drive it for three years with zero depreciation.
    As for my wife's 2004 X3, I'm not considering an extended maintenance plan. Nothing that I've learned about the car leads me to believe that it will be all that expensive to run. That said, I do think that the newer gadget filled cars such as the E60 and E65/66 will be expensive to maintain-primarily due to the sheer amount of their on-board electronics. Normal scheduled maintenance costs should not be that bad. In any event, keep talking up that "breathtakingly expensive" angle every chance you get; it might help depress the market for the non-CPO cars I'm looking at
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,981
    My Dad has an '04 X5 3.0iA SP with a little over 56,000 miles on it. It has been the absolute pinnacle of reliability. He drives 20K a year on his lease and wanted to be covered for the duration of his 42 month lease. Once he has his Inspection II done and another set of brakes, the extended maintenance will have paid for itself.

    My Mom has an '05 530iA which she loves. It has been so reliable that I actually considered buying the car when the lease is up. The maintenance costs don't bother me, but I don't trust that i-Drive once bit. I don't even want to think how much that would be to replace if it crashes.

    Japanese cars are reliable, but once mileage gets up there maintenance gets expensive too. I drive a 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH that currently has 74,000 miles. Last year I had to replace the clutch at 52K which cost A LOT of money ($1800 because the ATTS unit had to be taken out & re-installed for clutch work to be done for an extra 5 hours of labor). I had the work done by the dealer (providing my own Centerforce Clutch), but got some quotes from indy shops that were not that much cheaper. A few months ago I had the timing blet & tensioner replaced along with the H2O pump and valve cover gasket. That was like $1600 and I had the work done by an indy shop.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • This issue keeps coming up every 6 months or so.

    Keep in mind that profits and commissions are priced into the deal. Neither BMW or some other firm is going to subsidize your maintenance or warranty work. Therefore, the average person with the average car will lose money.

    If buying insurance buys peace of mind, get the extended plans. If you want to get a good deal (or save money), self insure.
  • That's what I said!

    For some folks "peace of mind" is. . .priceless.

    So many folks end up buying the extended warranties on TV's and DVD players and other home electronics. This seems even more unlikely to beat self-insuring.

    Then these same folks don't get the extended warranties or service plans and they get hit with routine expenses and become turned off of the brand.

    My BMW X5 owning friend still is a loyal fan.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    My BMW X5 owning friend still is a loyal fan.

    I only hope the dealer who hosed him with an $800 frontbrake job kissed him and sent flowers the next morning...
    What's that they say about a fool and his money?
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    ...but where's the peace of mind in a contract written by a 3rd-party insurer 2 time zones away that could go belly-up any minute? I just don't see it.

    For the most part, the service contract industry draws its customers from the ranks of the financially untutored.

    Real peace of mind is money in the bank. If you can afford to drive a $40K+ car, you should have the balance sheet to go along with it.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    ...but where's the peace of mind in a contract written by a 3rd-party insurer 2 time zones away that could go belly-up any minute? I just don't see it.

    Also, some contracts make you use certain shops or they are very stingy with reimbursement to the shop that you choose. The owner of my indie BMW shop is a friend of mine and he has numerous stories concerning those so-called warranties and how the companies are difficult-if not impossible-to deal with. They want the repair performed as quickly and cheaply as possible. Some piece of mind...
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    I'm certain that more than a few BMW dealerships want to perpetuate the "BMWs are wet-your-pants-expensive to maintain/repair" myth. Here's why:

    In the first place, it really boosts the profits of the service department. Using the $800 X5 front brake job as an example, the BMW retail cost of two BMW front rotors, Jurid pads, and a wear sensor for a 2004 X5 4.4i is @$370. Dealer cost is probably close to $225, if not less. Shop time shouldn't be more than two hours- especially considering that even I can do the job in a bit over one hour. So, how did the shop get to $800? Well, they possibly installed new caliper pins and bushes, even though I've never seen a BMW with less than 120K that needed them- who knows, but call it $400-$500 pure profit for the dealer. They also have added another voice to the "BMWs are are oh-my paws-and-whiskers expensive to fix" chorus, which also works to the dealer's advantage(see below). In contrast, my local dealer charged the PO of my wife's E39 a bit less than $1000 to replace pads and rotors on all four wheels including the parking brake shoes. At my indie shop, a four wheel brake job for my E36 track rat using BMW rotors and Axxis pads cost $657-and that included a brake fluid flush using ATE Super Blue Racing Fluid.

    Next, consider the fact that more and more new BMW owner/lessees think that Trailing Throttle Oversteer is a band that used to open for Kansas. They break out in a cold sweat at the thought of popping the hood- never mind checking/changing the oil. The dealer ramps up this hysteria further by insinuating that their car will self destruct if anyone other than an "official" dealer service tech lays a wrench on it. As a result, most of these new owners/lessees decide to flip their cars every 36 months or so, thereby avoiding those "incredible, unbelievable, have to take out a second mortgage" maintenance costs- which in reality would probably average less than $75/month.

    So the bottom line is that the dealer profits from convincing the gullible to pay exorbitant repair costs or else they persuade current owners/lesees to buy/rent a car every three years. In either case, the house(dealer) wins.
    That said, I'm certainly not complaining; it creates a great situation for those of us who actually know the truth, since we are able to pick up very nice Bimmers off warranty at very attractive prices.
  • dkatldkatl Posts: 3
    I'm the owner of an E-Class Mercedes and am considering a return to BMW, specifically the 550. I'm still not completely sold on the styling and was thinking the next update might tone down some of the Bangle features (along the lines of the current 3-Series sedans and coupes, which I think are lovely). I'd consider waiting for the 2008 models if the styling were about to change. Does anyone know when the next update is due to occur?

    Also, I've been impressed by the longevity of my 2000 E-class and was uncertain whether the BMW will match it. The E-Class now has 93,000 miles and feels nearly new--much tighter than my 1992 3-Series felt at 70,000 miles. Over 4 or 5 years, will the 5 Series hold up?

    Thanks, all!
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    I'd consider waiting for the 2008 models if the styling were about to change. Does anyone know when the next update is due to occur?

    With regards to the E60, I'd say that the traditional BMW "Facelift" is due within the next 12-18 months. BMW usually unveils the facelifted model @3 years after the introduction of an all-new platform.

    The E-Class now has 93,000 miles and feels nearly new--much tighter than my 1992 3-Series felt at 70,000 miles.

    The early E36 cars were not exactly a high point for BMW in terms of build quality. 3ers from 1993-on were much improved. As a matter of fact, I'm the original owner of a 10/95 build E36/5 Club Sport with over 105K on the clock, and it is as tight as the day I picked it up in November 1995. Aside from scheduled maintenance, I've replaced the serpentine belts, a couple of idler pulleys, all four brake pads and rotors, and the timing chain tensioner.(as a precaution).

    Over 4 or 5 years, will the 5 Series hold up?

    I ran an E39 528iA out to 130K and service and repair costs averaged less than $1000 per year. The only truly major expenses were front struts at 110K and a radiator and water pump(both replaced as a precaution) at 125K. On another E39 board there are several 200K cars that are purring right along on their original engine and transmission. Will the E60 prove as durable? Hard to say. Munich's current obsession with all things electronic may -repeat- MAY bode ill for long term reliability. The E39 has a significant enthusiast base which made it easy for me to investigate and fix minor problems that otherwise would have required a trip to the shop. I'd hope that the same will be true with the E60.
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