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PS My 1984 Toyota Celica went 12 years 85,000 miles and was never in the shop. That was the last car I could say that about. Of course the car by today's standard was far less complex. My 1990 Taurus Wagon went 6 years, the last two were expensive ones.
One more thought it's not the distance that gets most cars, IMO, it's the age. A 4 year car driven 40,000 mi/yr will have in total less wear and tear than an 8 year car driven 20,000.
Curtiss: I think you got the discount cause you plug the program even more than BMWNA ...;)
DL
Buying a used newish highly sophisticated BMW would scare me if it weren't under a decent warranty for some significant length of time/miles. Since I have yet to see a really good 3rd party extended warranty, I think the manufacturers' certified programs are the only way to go for true peace of mind.
For most ED customers, though, I suspect they are interested in going to Europe anyway, so this offers them a great opportunity to do so (the car savings either pay for the trip or certainly subsidize it substantially), not to mention saving costs on rental cars while there.
All those costs you list are costs people would face regardless on a trip; therefore, they can simply pick up the car and leave, if that's their only goal.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Givens:
Airfare: Round trip EWR to MUC; I am paying $447.00 per person, plus a mandatory $12.38 for FedEX to deliver our tickets (SAS does not do E-Ticket) to my home. As for shopping for said tickets, it took a whopping hour and a half to do the research on the Internet AND buy the tickets.
Food: We gotta eat, regardless of whether we are at home or on vacation.
Lodging: Based upon the airline pricing, it seems that you need to spend at least two nights to get the best fares, many folks over on the 3-Series board have stayed at a very comfortable hotel called the Hotel Uhland (sp?) in Munich, which has nice (read, not the Ritz) rooms for about $60 (USD) per night.
Paperwork: The 530i that I am picking up in Munich in about 3 weeks required two more signatures than my 1999 328i that I leased here in New Jersey, all in all, the paperwork in no different. Oh, and I will most likely have to sign a few more times in Munich.
Documentation: Hmmm, well, at least in our case, we both have passports already, so, for us at lease, that is a non-issue. To go to Germany, there are no Visas, Medical Checks, International Licenses, or any other documentation to deal with.
Single person, short trip ED delivery (using my car as a basis for savings):
Price saved off US MSRP: $5,300.00
Price of Airfare: $453.19
Round Trip Airport Limo from Home to EWR: $65.00
Rail Fare from MUC to BMW ED Center: $12.00 (according to those who have done it)
Taxi Fare from E.H. Harms to Hotel Uhland: $25.00 (Approx.)
Two nights at Hotel Uhland: $120.00
Rail Fare from Hotel Uhland to MUC: $10.00
Lost Month of usage Lease payment: $558.00
Total cost of ED related items: $1,243.19
Total savings using a minimal ED trip: $4,056.81
Two Person, 8 days on the ground ED delivery:
Price saved off US MSRP: $5,300.00
Price of Airfare: $906.38
Round Trip Airport Limo from Home to EWR: $130.00
Rail Fare from MUC to BMW ED Center: $24.00
Lodging for 6 nights: $600.00 (Figured WAY on the high side, just in case ;-))
Taxi Fare from E.H. Harms to Hotel Uhland: $25.00 (Approx.)
Last night at Hotel Uhland: $60.00
Rail Fare from Hotel Uhland to MUC: $20.00
Lost Month of usage Lease payment: $558.00
Total cost of ED related items: $2,523.30
Total savings using a minimal ED trip: $2,776.62
Assuming that the best deal I could have done on a domestic purchase would have been $1,500 off MSRP, the “Lone Wolf” approach would still save $2,556.81 by doing ED. In the case where two folks take a short vacation (just like my wife and I are going to do), we would still save at least $1,276.62. Oh, and we get a FREE vacation in Paris, in the spring no less. ;-)
In reality, we would have taken a trip to Paris anyway, and we would have probably rented a car while we were there. With that in mind, the only differences in costs to me will turn out to be the net difference between the cost of the weekly rental car in Europe (figure $275) and the “Lost Month Payment” while my car is on water. So, the way I look at it, I am saving more like $5,000 (off MSRP) by doing ED and more like $3,500 (assuming a $1,500 discount off MSRP) in real world savings.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I know its corny, but I just had to say it!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
As several frinds and associates have indicated to me, one of the most difficult aspects of ED is the wait and anticipation. But hey, they feel the same way about our annual golf outing. At least with ED, they end up with a great car and don't lose too many balls in the process.
Consider this, you don't save anything by going ED on a Mercedes, and Porsche actually charges you extra to take delivery at the factory. BMW is one of the few options for making it a unique event for yourself and your family and still saving significant dollars in the process.
Costs me a heck of a lot less to eat and live over 3 or 4 days in my rural midwest town than some bigger European cities. Bet their cost of living indices a lot higher.
Just my opinion, but a good negotiator living in an area with multiple BMW dealers within reasonable distance and one willing to negotiate hard and wait to get a good deal, can do pretty well off MSRP. Add up all the time, effort, and costs for ED, and I don't think the difference ends up being that great, either in total dollars or as a percentage of all the money spent on the car.
(Brief aside: aren't our names interesting... mine is our cat's name, plus the impact of 3 irretrievable passwords. But I digress...)
ANYWAY... It's frankly hard to justify ED purely on economics. Think of it as a subsidy to a trip you were going to take anyway. We have good friends in Frankfurt, they'd just had a baby; we were headed there anyway. Our 530i was just icing on the cake...!
You ought to try New York sometime. My wife and I just went out to dinner and a show a few weeks back and it cost us something like $500 for the evening!
As I have been to Europe a number of times, and even worked in Stuttgart for Mercedes-Benz back in 1996, I have a fair idea of what prices currently are (confirmed by the internet). Will I wine and dine my wife in Paris? You bet. Would I have wined and dined my wife in New York that same week if we had not gone? Most probably. What is the difference in cost? Not much.
Given that we are going to spend some time on the road, most likely driving up to Saxony after Paris, the costs up there are fairly low, I mean like, $100 will pay for the entire day, including meals and lodging.
In the interest of science, I will in fact document every penny that goes out, and will attempt to classify them in such a way as to distinguish between necessary expenses and ones that are purely discretionary.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Riez: I think you may be disproving your own argument. You claim that, after all airfare, hotels, meals, transportation, etc. costs are accounted for in ED, you don't end up saving much (or anything). But in this argument, you are acknowledging the buyer is getting a trip through Europe basically for free. Fine, so you're not saving much OVERALL, but you're getting a free trip out of the deal. And if you were planning on such a trip anyway--practically a sunk cost--then you certainly are saving money.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Shipo, keep those cards and letters coming. I'll be going over for a May 14th pickup and would love to hear your story.
main train station in Munich (10 to 15 minutes walk along the sidewalk). If arriving in
Munich by plane, simply take the train to the Hauptbahnhof (main train station) directly
from the airport. Not big rooms, but spotless AND a super full breakfast (if you like to
munch in the morning).
http://www.hotel-jedermann.de/
but, to be honest, I feel pretty frustrated so far by my local BMW dealers. I can't get the price as you've mentioned. I expanded my range to the whole California, but you know what? either they don't have the car I'd like to buy, or they are just same corky on the price as my local's.
so far the best offer I've got is $38000 for that 99 540ia, sports, 43500 miles, Xenon.
Can I ask where you are at? are your local BMW dealers willing to ship? from the internet, I saw a lot of cheaper BMWs in Houston area, maybe because of Enron? anyway, in SF bay area, the BMW dealers just have their guts to be tough on price. people just keep buying.
Thanks for the info, I'm just curious, not really gonna buy any from there.
If you are strictly looking to find the lowest price, compare a minimal 1-2 night trip vs. US delivery. Compare about $3000 savings vs. airfare, hotel, possibly passports, meals, vacation time, etc. For me, this was not the point.
Now, even given the break-in limits, I will probably drive the car faster than I would dare in the US. I will have pictures of the car in Munich and elsewhere. I will have stories to tell to this board and others when I get back. I can tell others I saved $3000 in doing so, even if it is more complicated than that. I can tell my Mercedes-owning Dad that I went to both the BMW and Mercedes museums. To me, the "value" is even more than the $3k savings.
-Bob D.
one piece of advice, don't drive your brand new BMW to Italy. even most of the rental companies there don;t allow you to drive audi/BMW/MB to Italy.
So, any "performance" car may need more care. It has smaller tolerances. If it did not, it would not be a performance car.
-Bob D.
Plus i can see where our new German Bosch washer was built, maybe a tour of the factory ? am i sick or what ? haha
DL
Do the dealers take you as a serious buyer? Do they believe you have the financial wherewithall to buy a car from them today if you can agree on a price? Have no idea how you dress, act, speak, look, etc. but I do know that I can behave one way today that makes me invisible to a salesperson (which I do when I only want to window shop and don't want to be bothered by salesperson) and another way tomorrow if I'm serious about wanting to negotiate and buy.
I've never met a dealership or salesperson that wouldn't negotiate if they knew I was a serious potential buyer, one who had the cash or credit to actually buy, and who opened up a discussion with a phrase like "I'd really like to buy a car from you today and will if we can reach a good deal."
We had (unfortunately) purchased a number of cars from consumers over the months that turned out to have these branded titles. To evaluate CarFax, we sent them a file with several hundred Veh Id #'s (VINs). Of the branded titles, CarFax CAUGHT LESS THAN HALF.
My former company ended up using CarFax anyway, but CarFax purchases its data from the state DMV's (and possibly insurance companies), so in a sense, they're only as good as the government(!).
So, CarFax provides a worthwhile service and their record has likely improved since our test a couple of years ago, but it's not foolproof. As always, buyer beware.
BTW, I heard a good way to check for flood damage is to look up under the seat for signs of silt or rust. Apparently, when they detail these cars, they often don't bother to clean these areas since they're out of sight...
(P.S. Shipo: great story about your name... I couldn't use most of the things MY high school teachers called me...)
I have noticed that when I am driving along a one-way street (in my 1999 328i with Xenon headlights) with pedestrians along the left side of the road, all I see of said pedestrians is from about mid-thigh down. If both headlights were aimed like the left side, you would NEVER see a road sign on the right side of the road without using your high beams.
Best Regards,
Shipo
1. Have you contacted Cutter Motors in Santa Barbara? I've read on this and the 3 series thread that their prices are very reasonable, especially for a dealer in California (that was on new & ED cars, I don't know about CPO cars).
2. If you can't or don't want to do ED, check the internet, use your phone and fly out here to the east coast. Dealers here in the Tri-State area (NY,NJ,CT) seem to be the most willing to make a deal. There are a number of dealers in the area and they all should have a nice crop of CPO 5540iAs (plural) for you to choose from.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I know I should have bought the premium sound system but thought 10 speakers should have good sound. Wrong. The stock system in my "94" Altima sounds better. I play a bass, and I know it clips low frequencies.
Does any know of a good way to upgrade. I am willing to change things as long as it does not damage the car. Sound is important, but not that important. It seems what I need to do is just change the door and deck speakers, but I know with all the other speakers in the car, it can't be that simple. Thanx
hope this helps:)
Rob
Best Regards,
Shipo
Inside the mailer I found a nice folder labeled “BMW European Delivery Program” containing “BMW European Delivery Confirmation Essentials”, which are comprised of:
1) A Credit Card sized presto-chango expando-map explaining how to get from the Munich airport to the ED center via the roads or the rails.
2) An eight page “Quick Reference Guide” containing many necessary tidbits of information to make you more informed about the process.
3) A nicely illustrated map titled “Walks through Munich” by Bert Lief.
4) A “Complimentary Breakfast or Luncheon Voucher” provided by BMW of North America, LLC.
5) A beautiful full color brochure from Condé Nast titled “The BMW European Delivery Travel Program”, which is essentially an advertisement for the various Condé Nast ED itineraries that can be bought for what I am sure is a “Nominal Fee”. ;-)
6) A brief personalized letter confirming the car, color and equipment, along with a few instructions.
7) A standard form letter, explaining the contents of the package.
8) A page containing all of the ED drop-off points (also in the “Quick Reference Guide”)
9) A three-page document listing various hotels in Munich convenient to the ED center and the Airport.
10) A nice “EURoad” booklet titled “The Complete Guide to Motoring in Europe” (again, by Bert Lief). This booklet contains a “Basic Planning” map, Itinerary Planner worksheet, a fairly complete list of ferry services extending from Oslo to Dublin, a Time/Distance calculator for many major cities in Europe, driving tips, a small lexicon of phrases in English, French, Spanish, Italian, German, Danish, Swedish and Portuguese, a metric to English conversion page, 11 pages containing a few hundred hotels scattered around Europe, 28 pages of maps of individual countries and a number of cities as well, 14 pages containing 34 recommended trip itineraries, and finally, an illustrated/annotated list of European road signs.
11) A “Complimentary Gift”, mine was a BMW Pen/Flashlight that glows in a cool iridescent purple.
Maybe I am just easily impressed, however, I was not expecting this, so, it came as a delightful surprise.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Ironic side note:
The postmark on my packet was from the Woodcliff Lake, NJ Post Office. To get from BMWNA to said Post Office, somebody had to literally drive down my street, right past my house AND pay $3.50 to then mail it back to me. ;-)
Thanks!
-nobee
Best Regards,
Shipo
Next question,,,how flexible/ able are dealers to modify orders that are just a few days old??
-nobee
As for the floor mats, $87 sounds pretty good for "Molded to Fit" floor mats for any specific car. If, however, your Dealer wants to sell you a generic set for that amount, I would look further.
Best Regards,
Shipo
http://www.pacificbmw.com/catalog/access/detail.asp?pid=172&model=E39
I am scheduled to pick-up my 530i in May. I caught part of one of your messages and it appears that you drove to Paris during your ED. Do you have any information? We are flying into Paris, staying a few days, catching an overnight train to Munich, picking up the car and making our way back to Paris, via Lucerne. Any comments, suggestions, etc.
Also, if anyone else has any input, it would be appreciated. Thanks.
I recommend picking up a copy of the Dorling Kindersly (DK) Paris guide -- it was our bible. Very comprehensive and easy to use. Have you booked accommodations yet? If not, I can recommend the 2 places we stayed: The Hotel Madison on Blvd. Saint Germain (mildly pricey, prime location, very nice), and the Hotel Senateur by the Luxembourg Garden (very reasonable, less luxurious, quieter but still very nice location). Getting around involves using the Metro -- easy to learn, but the stations are a laberynthine maze of connections between lines -- and lots of walking. It was my first visit to Paris, and I was not prepared for the scale of the city. If you want to visit the museums (Louvre, Musee d'Orsay, etc.), buy the passes that are good for several days. More importantly than saving you a few Euros, they allow you to bypass the lines that form at the entrances on rainy weekend days (since you are going off-season, this may not be a big factor for you). As hokey as it sounds, visit the Eiffel Tower. The view of course is unparalleled, but it's the structure itself that's truly amazing.
Aside from other touristy stuff like taking a bateau mouche ride down the Seine, the other thing to recommend is to do like the Parisiens -- enjoy the cafe life, and drink wine at every meal (well, afternoons and evenings, anyway). Even the most reasonably priced table wine is more than acceptable.
After a few days in Paris, we rented a small but peppy Renault Kangoo for a side trip to the Loire Valley (very recommended -- I can provide more specifics if you're interested). It was much more suited to Parisien traffic than the BMW, and driving it there was a blast. Any time you're stopped in traffic, though, do not open a door blindly, or you will take out one of the leather-clad motorcyclists that use the spaces between cars as bike express lanes.
I'm sure that the world travelers on this board can provide many additional suggestions. You will love Paris.