April is the New York Auto Show. Isn't that where the H6 made its debut?
I bet the Legacy based rumor was wrong. What I think will happen is that the Forester will get the rear suspension from the Legacy, but keep its Impreza platform.
Hmm, to me, the sketch looks so much like the current model, it's almost more of a freshening and not a redesign. That would hint at an Impreza platform, which now has an identical wheelbase to the Forester.
Sport model: 5 speed manual or auto, low range, tow package (tranny cooler, disc brakes, hitch) option for Class II, 3.0 H6 or 2.5LPT engine w/200+hp, 16" wheels, 8.5" ground clearance, skid plates standard.
GT model: 6 speed close-ratio manual, 2.5LPT engine, 17" wheels, fat hood scoop feeding an intercooler for 220hp.
...from a marketing standpoint. Might not be popular in the US but would do well elsewhere. Problem is Subaru doesn't make a diesel and I don't know if GM/Isuzu have an appropriately sized one to outsource. It would also not fit in with the corporate all boxer engine strategy, but then that rebaged Opel minivan doesn't, either.
I imagine the hoodline, if not the whole front clip, would have to be redesigned to accommodate that diesel. Maybe a big hood bulge like the 3/4-ton domestic pickups.
to see a turbo-diesel boxer, at least for foreign markets. Then again, I would love to see Subaru enter all different kinds of markets; but as juice has said before, I'm a dreamer...
I read that because of poor sales of the Axiom, Isuzu is cutting back production at Indiana 20%. I wonder if increased Subaru production can offset this?
I had a 1984 ford escort that came with a 2.0l diesel and that engine was unstoppable. The engine was supplied by mazda and it was gutless but extremely reliable even in the winter in Manitoba and a year in Fort McMurray in Alberta (if you don't know where that is think north...way north and cold, you just had to plug the thing in, on a side note most parking lots up there had plug ins, even the mall). It was also used in Mazda pickups back then too. I think a small 3.0l Turbo diesel would work great for european applications of the outbrat. It would be efficient and have decent torque, but not to quick, but if you want quick buy a WRX.
so anyway I'm a bit behind but I wanna reply to Mike Smith's Mayflower engine post. no offense to the diesel stuff...
I read about the Mayflower and I just can't see it being feasible. The lever arm adds so much weigh and momentum to the reciprocating assembly that I can't imagine the gains being worth it, nevermind the reliability. To me this seems like a totally impractical concept, unlike the very workable Saab variable combustion engine.
I keep dreaming of the continuous high power produced by a forced induction, variable compression ratio engine mated to a continuously variable transmission. I think I'd be willing to give up the stick shift for the CVT's ability to keep the engine in its maximum power band. This assumes both technologies become reliable.
Thanks for indulging me.
juice, I can't wait for direct injection, either. ID is an incremental efficiency improvement; I think variable compression and CVT are revolutionary.
CVT revolutionary? They've been around for decades, including in some lil' Subies.
I had one in a scooter I used to have. It made use of what little torque there was, but the engine noise was droning and that got tiring.
I do like the concept of keeping an engine at its torque peak all the time, though. You could also drop things like VTEC, two-stage intakes, and variable exhausts to offset the costs.
The shame is that one of the pioneers of DI technology, Mitsubishi, is down and out in their home market after the hidden recall scandal. If they cut custs I'm not sure we'll ever see one here.
Yes, revolutionary. It's been around for a while but hasn't made it mainstream, perhaps because of the belt implementation (unreliable?). Hopefully Audi's chain belt will be reliable.
After participating in this forum, I have heard this a lot. My wife & I often talk about why Subarus not making bigger cars.
I thought Subaru was wrong until today, Except on Foresters.....they need to make it legacy-based.
Today, I test drove an Infinity-I35 ( for those who are new - this is an upscale version of Maxima ) 255hp, everything on it, refined, beautiful, even the VDC ( I wonder how Subaru allows them to call it VDC - thought it is Subaru's brand name ). The price is 35k.
I loved the car except that it was too big for me...( I am 5'11 & 165 lbs )....Driver position was not confortable becos it was too big, city driving was hard because it was too big.
Now, I think Legacy & Outback are perfectly sized for 4 regular passengers & 5 ocassional.
there is definitely something about certain cars, every Lexus ES300 I have been in has been impossible for me to sit in either the drivers or passengers front seat without banging my head against the roof whilst having the seat back adjusted to a position I could tolerate even with the seat at the lowest position. I'm only 5 8. Go figure!! I have no problems in a Camry!
We have a Fiat Punto in our shop right now to do some evaluation of the CVT installed in it. I drove the vehicle all weekend, and I was blown away by the performance. There are essentially four modes that the Punto can be driven in,
The tiptronic mode and shift action on this car (Japanese Market) was the best I have driven (which included Porsche/Audi/VW Tiptronic, BMW Steptronic, etc -though I haven't had the pleasure of trying Ferrari's F1 paddle setup). The upshifts and downshifts were amazingly quick and sharp in comparison with those other systems (none of which I found to be a suitable alternative to a real M/T). The Punto tranny left me quite impressed. I found myself doing most of my driving in the 7 speed automatic mode, mostly because that position is the easiest to toggle into from the "Manu-matic mode.
The CVT modes also performed very well, without the awful hunting sensation that an early protoype of the Saturn VUE had when I drove it last winter.
I also got to brush up on my right hand drive techniques. And, I'm guessing there aren't many Fiat Puntos in Kalamazoo, MI - as my fiance' and I got plenty of stares...he he.
according to Edmunds... The Seats must be different as well.... (just guessing there must be some differences to justify the Lexus's MSRP of 39,180 vs Camry's 22,745 (V6 cars)
Impreza and Forester are compact. Legacy is a mid-size, and kind of a small mid-size at that. But a wagon bodystyle compensates for that somewhat. They could go bigger, but they have to be careful with pricing. The press and public rejected the idea of a Soob over $30k.
The Camry is a little roomier than the ES300, at least the previous generation was. But it's deceiving, because they can scoop out doors to gain cubic feet of interior space, at least by EPA measures. I remember the last Protoge had more EPA room than the Millenia.
Ryan: you work in the industry? Media? Nice to have that kind of access to cars.
The Punto is a sub-compact, though. Have you had a chance to drive a new A4 with the CVT?
I know Saturn has delayed the intro of their CVT, so they're probably still having trouble with it.
There we have mini-compacts, sub-compacts (Subaru sells a Pleo IIRC), compacts (Impreza), and the Forester would be considered a premium mid-sizer. The Outback is actually a large near-luxury car by their standards.
I'd pass on a larger car. I thought the E-class we test drove at the M-B Power Trip was a boat. I'd take an E55 AMG, but I'd prefer a C320 over an E320, any day. My order of preference was pretty much small-to-large.
I must have graduated from the Colin Chapman school of automotive thinking. Lighter and smaller is always better.
AJ, You know Ryan Plum, though it's been a while since he's posted. An excerpt from Ryan's prior post:
Subaru Research and Development, Body and Evaluation Dept. We work directly under FHI in Japan, mainly doing special research projects for them, emission certification work with the EPA, and some special vehicle testing for the North American Manuf. Plants (Indiana). I work with suspension and ride comfort, steering, brakes, interior ergonomics, etc. Most of my work is compiling data and driving/acquiring competitive vehicles to test and report on for Japan. We are a separate entity from SOA.
Ryan: If this is more information than you'd like repeated, I'll happily delete this.
cars, such as the Pleo, in Japan are considered micro-cars, or something like that. I'm not sure how the EPA classifies the various Subaru models, and how they compare to other similar cars from other brands.
considering selling the BRAT in Europe. They want to increase their market penetration there. I think it's a good move. Car-based pickups are already pretty well established over there. I wonder if the BRAT will be exported to other markets as well? Australia, New Zealand, South America and Africa would also seem to be excellent markets for this type of vehicle.
Yes, the grille is in and it looks tasty. I'm getting a digital camera this week (in advance of vacation 10/15) and will look for a way to get snaps online.
Just found this over at the I-Club. Some guy from New Zealand picked up a brochure of the STi, and scanned it in. Further down the posting is another scanned in brochure of the earlier version of the STi. There are also other images of the STi and other Subies on this site too. Enjoy, or read it and weep...
Interesting note—and nice touch: it appears, besides having an outside temperature gauge, the STi also has a gear indicator (just above the ambient temp gauge), which is unusual to see in a manual tranny car—unless it had a sequential-shift pattern.
Comments
I bet the Legacy based rumor was wrong. What I think will happen is that the Forester will get the rear suspension from the Legacy, but keep its Impreza platform.
Hmm, to me, the sketch looks so much like the current model, it's almost more of a freshening and not a redesign. That would hint at an Impreza platform, which now has an identical wheelbase to the Forester.
-juice
Okay, so now we have at least a hint of what it will look like, now we need cold hard specifics...
Bob
Sport model: 5 speed manual or auto, low range, tow package (tranny cooler, disc brakes, hitch) option for Class II, 3.0 H6 or 2.5LPT engine w/200+hp, 16" wheels, 8.5" ground clearance, skid plates standard.
GT model: 6 speed close-ratio manual, 2.5LPT engine, 17" wheels, fat hood scoop feeding an intercooler for 220hp.
Limited Edition "paisan" Model: H8 4.0l 300hp.
Just kidding on that last one.
-juice
Bob
H8 Gas for the legacy.
Speaking of which, I need to go back and revive the towing capacity for the Brat Pool. We should be seeing towing #s soon on them.
-mike
-juice
Ed
They are going to make them for Honda. Subaru could benefit from a diesel in Europe.
-juice
Ed
Bob
-juice
-mike
Bob
But if you mean employees, then yes, hopefully they can shift them over without any layoffs.
-juice
..Mike
..Mike
I read about the Mayflower and I just can't see it being feasible. The lever arm adds so much weigh and momentum to the reciprocating assembly that I can't imagine the gains being worth it, nevermind the reliability. To me this seems like a totally impractical concept, unlike the very workable Saab variable combustion engine.
-Colin
-juice
I keep dreaming of the continuous high power produced by a forced induction, variable compression ratio engine mated to a continuously variable transmission. I think I'd be willing to give up the stick shift for the CVT's ability to keep the engine in its maximum power band. This assumes both technologies become reliable.
Thanks for indulging me.
juice, I can't wait for direct injection, either. ID is an incremental efficiency improvement; I think variable compression and CVT are revolutionary.
..Mike
..Mike
I had one in a scooter I used to have. It made use of what little torque there was, but the engine noise was droning and that got tiring.
I do like the concept of keeping an engine at its torque peak all the time, though. You could also drop things like VTEC, two-stage intakes, and variable exhausts to offset the costs.
The shame is that one of the pioneers of DI technology, Mitsubishi, is down and out in their home market after the hidden recall scandal. If they cut custs I'm not sure we'll ever see one here.
-juice
..Mike
..Mike
Bob
An engine that ran on water by burning the hydrogen and releasing fresh oxygen is revolutionary (fuel cells).
-juice
I thought Subaru was wrong until today, Except on Foresters.....they need to make it legacy-based.
Today, I test drove an Infinity-I35 ( for those who are new - this is an upscale version of Maxima ) 255hp, everything on it, refined, beautiful, even the VDC ( I wonder how Subaru allows them to call it VDC - thought it is Subaru's brand name ). The price is 35k.
I loved the car except that it was too big for me...( I am 5'11 & 165 lbs )....Driver position was not confortable becos it was too big, city driving was hard because it was too big.
Now, I think Legacy & Outback are perfectly sized for 4 regular passengers & 5 ocassional.
Your thoughts ??
-mike
1. Standard CVT
2. "Economy" CVT
3. Simulated 7 speed Automatic
4. Seven Speed "Tiptronic" mode
The tiptronic mode and shift action on this car (Japanese Market) was the best I have driven (which included Porsche/Audi/VW Tiptronic, BMW Steptronic, etc -though I haven't had the pleasure of trying Ferrari's F1 paddle setup). The upshifts and downshifts were amazingly quick and sharp in comparison with those other systems (none of which I found to be a suitable alternative to a real M/T). The Punto tranny left me quite impressed. I found myself doing most of my driving in the 7 speed automatic mode, mostly because that position is the easiest to toggle into from the "Manu-matic mode.
The CVT modes also performed very well, without the awful hunting sensation that an early protoype of the Saturn VUE had when I drove it last winter.
I also got to brush up on my right hand drive techniques. And, I'm guessing there aren't many Fiat Puntos in Kalamazoo, MI - as my fiance' and I got plenty of stares...he he.
back to lurking mode.......
RP
Frank
..Mike
PS - I hope you know we welcome your participation at any time.
..Mike
The Camry is a little roomier than the ES300, at least the previous generation was. But it's deceiving, because they can scoop out doors to gain cubic feet of interior space, at least by EPA measures. I remember the last Protoge had more EPA room than the Millenia.
Ryan: you work in the industry? Media? Nice to have that kind of access to cars.
The Punto is a sub-compact, though. Have you had a chance to drive a new A4 with the CVT?
I know Saturn has delayed the intro of their CVT, so they're probably still having trouble with it.
-juice
Bob
There we have mini-compacts, sub-compacts (Subaru sells a Pleo IIRC), compacts (Impreza), and the Forester would be considered a premium mid-sizer. The Outback is actually a large near-luxury car by their standards.
I'd pass on a larger car. I thought the E-class we test drove at the M-B Power Trip was a boat. I'd take an E55 AMG, but I'd prefer a C320 over an E320, any day. My order of preference was pretty much small-to-large.
I must have graduated from the Colin Chapman school of automotive thinking. Lighter and smaller is always better.
-juice
Subaru Research and Development, Body and Evaluation Dept. We work directly under FHI in Japan, mainly doing special research projects for them, emission certification work with the EPA, and some special vehicle testing for the North American Manuf. Plants (Indiana). I work with suspension and ride comfort, steering, brakes, interior ergonomics, etc. Most of my work is compiling data and driving/acquiring competitive vehicles to test and report on for Japan. We are a separate entity from SOA.
Ryan: If this is more information than you'd like repeated, I'll happily delete this.
..Mike
..Mike
Hmm, I wonder if Subaru was interested in those CVTs? Very interesting...
-juice
Bob
I bet they go by what the EPA says.
Funny bit of trivia: did you know that the BMW 5 series wagon is considered a compact?
Wow...
-juice
Bob
http://www.veh-tech.net/
-juice
http://www.subaru-sti.co.jp/typeM/
Name's a mouthful but is it ever sweet.
Make mine black, please.
Ed
I don't care if it's pink! Ok, well, I'll take that white one.
-juice
Black, silver, white the color choices. Those seats look wonderful. Ken needs to check that out and translate Toshi Arai's report for us.
Ed
That Forester is sa-weet! What's "M"? Monkey? No, that would be Type TM.:D
Ed, have you installed your new grill yet?
Dennis
Yes, the grille is in and it looks tasty. I'm getting a digital camera this week (in advance of vacation 10/15) and will look for a way to get snaps online.
Ed
I'll take a Silver one, then.
-juice
Nice catch. That Type M looks sweet. Mostly cosmetic (new front and rear ground effects, tinted windows, short shifter, etc.)however.
The short shifter looks about the same height as my Kartboy!
Ken
Ed
-juice
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=99741
Interesting note—and nice touch: it appears, besides having an outside temperature gauge, the STi also has a gear indicator (just above the ambient temp gauge), which is unusual to see in a manual tranny car—unless it had a sequential-shift pattern.
Bob