Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've noticed that several American car makers are now offering "manual" (not auto) dual-zone front climate controls. It's simply a conventional climate control system with two temperature sliders; one for the driver, and one for the front passenger.

    I think this is a great idea that Subaru should adopt.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, but only after the 6 speed manual arrives. Deal? ;-)

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I just like a nice auto-temp controller. The one in my trooper is great. It is cool cause you can have the fan in the "off" position and still set the temp, also it's fully analog instead of digital.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the "auto" vs. "manual" that I'm commenting on—it's the dual-zone feature. I can't tell how many arguments I've had with my wife over the temperature setting in the car. Having a feature like this could save a lot of marriages. ;)

    Juice- It's a deal. :)

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    If someone is too cold, can't they just close the vent? I mean the dual-zone is kinda an oxy-moron, since it's all one area. You can close a vent or direct it away from you, but the air in the vehicle is going to equal out the temps eventually.

    I like it cold, my GF likes it warm. She simply closes the vents on her side and there isn't an issue.

    -mike
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    so what class of trailer hitch would this dual zone manual tranny have? :))
  • rplumrplum Member Posts: 48
    The Pontiac Aztek being the example that springs to my mind immediately. About the only aspect of the vehicle I liked, oh and the center console cooler.....

    Ryan
    -got to buy an Aztek and promptly send it to Japan....

    -snip-
    I've noticed that several American car makers are now offering "manual" (not auto) dual-zone front climate controls. It's simply a conventional climate control system with two temperature sliders; one for the driver, and one for the front passenger.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Mike- As soon as you get married, it becomes an issue. It's one of "Murphy's Laws." ;)

    Loosh- It has no class at all. ;)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My wife is either cold and wants it warmer than me, or hot because she wore her coat inside the car. So yes, I can see how it would be useful.

    But I'd still put it pretty low on my wish list.

    -juice
  • rplumrplum Member Posts: 48
    There was some weird stuff on there....should be fixed now.

    I love reading all your comments....keep them up...

    Ryan
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    How is it any different than closing the vents or opening the vents? I guess I'm just a moron cause it seems like a fancy way to open or close the vents on a particular side.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    when you get married, you'll either understand or cave in... ;)

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I usually just let her decide and I either open my window or put on a jacket....

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually, both vents stay open, but the air coming from them is at a different temperature. They can vary the temps by 20 degrees or more. It's like having two independent HVAC systems.

    I like it at 68. My wife like it at 75. When she wears a coat, she likes it at arctic temps that are bone-chilling.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    IMHO.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I dunno, HVAC systems are generally OK. I'm sure they still use only one A/C compressor, which is the most expensive problem area.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    a manual dual-zone system would be a good "selling feature," much like heated seats are. It could sway a few customers who are on the fence. I wouldn't be concerned about it breaking.

    Bob
  • bblachabblacha Member Posts: 160
    I would love a dual-zone heating system. But since my Forester is not so equipped, I "equipped" it with a blanket and a sweatshirt for my wife to use when she inevitably gets cold, while I strip down to my t-shirt. That's our dual-zone system :-)

    Hey, I'm not complaining. My parents' Trabant didn't even have heat controls at all, just a hole through the firewall with a rag to plug it up.

    --Bart
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's a pretty cost effective option, too! I always carry a spare coat in each of my cars, but then she gets too hot!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Necessity really is the mother of invention...

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    is to bundle a manual dual-zone climate control in with the All-Weather Package. So, for those who don't want/need those features, there is an alternative.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It's cheaper to make it std. IMHO. I hate too many options/bundles/etc.

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Bart, you took the words right outta my mouth. There's a wool blanket (sometimes two) in my car year 'round. Leave that to the premium models and let FHI/SoA concentrate on other things. More power across the board and heated side view mirrors. :-)

    Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I always carry a sleeping bag and a winter coat in the car, just in case. Thos fancy heaters don't do you any good if you are stuck w/o gas or power in the cold. :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I gotta agree - there are so many model variations it's amazing Subaru is profitable.

    I think for certain things they should let SPT take over. Offer more things as "accessories" that any dealer can install. That includes things like HIDs and Nav systems, wheels, brake kits, etc.

    They could avoid increasing costs by just charging customers what it costs them to bring those over from Japan.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Change it to STi North America. :-D
    They do need to expand the offerings over here though.

    Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, I don't get why they use the SPT name. It has about zero name recognition.

    -juice
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Hmmm... I wonder if Subaru would make(supply) them as standard OEM? Dual-Temp control solved. ;-)

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Had a nice day yesterday, sampling most of the BMW line and then test driving an Altima and a Protoge5. What did I like and not like about those that I'd like for future Soobs to take into account?

    BMW first. I personally prefer manual controls for the 5 speed auto tranny on the steering wheel, but at least it shifted nicely. The trip computer was washed out by sunlight. Subaru ought to take a close look at those interior materials, especially if they venture in the $30k price range again. Interiors were relatively small, but the 5 series was acceptable for a small family. The X5 was inferior to the 5 series wagon in every way.

    I drove an Altima, too, since I passed by a Nissan dealer on the way home. I have to apologize for saying torque steer was bad. It was actually awful. Gas it in turns and the steering takes on a mind of its own. It felt like the power steering was failing, odd because the steering was too light the rest of the time. Also hated the shifter feel. Vague and requiring too much effort. Engine was sweet, though, low and high revs. Very quick. 17" rims and nice handling, understeer not too bad. Gorgeous styling inside and out, roomy, good visibility. Just make it AWD and fix the shifter. Price was $25k for a basic 5 speed SE V6 with cloth, $29k for a leather lined automatic, but the dealer had a ridiculous $2k markup. Get real. Cool lights all around, except the Pontiac-orange guages are tacky. No rear head rests? HIDs a stand-alone option, good idea.

    Finally, went to the Mazda dealer to buy a new gas cap for my Miata. $24, ouch. The lady in front of me paid over $8 for an oil filter. Who says Subaru parts are expensive? They are much cheaper than that.

    Drove the Protoge5. Comparable to the Outback Sport I tested recently. The Mazda was very nice, cute, space efficient. 16" alloys, lights look nice, wild yellow color the WRX should have gotten. White face gauges and interior look neat, but headliner and sun visors are just as cheap as Subaru's. No torque steer in this FWD, and very balanced handling, as good as FWD gets, but then again there is no torque period. Definitely needs a power boost, the OBS is much peppier, relaxed. Subaru's seats are better, too, but the Mazda had better brakes. Close call, but I'd take the OBS maily for the engine and its 165 horses. AWD is a bonus that makes the extra cost worth it.

    Sorry for the long post. We've just been discussing a lot of this stuff all along, and wanted to share my impressions.

    -juice
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Thanks.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • brekkebrekke Member Posts: 304
    I admit they turn my head every time. But hanging around here I've become an AWD snob and 130hp seems like such a low number.

    For my next car I'd like to upgrade: a little more power, better brakes, better interior materials, nicer exterior package. I like my OBS but I don't think I would get another one if it doesn't change much. I'm thinking more of an Audi A3 (you never know).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's funny, because FWD actually works when you only have 135 lb-ft of torque. So you could argue that the 5 is OK without it, at least in sunny states.

    But it's a catch 22. You add more power to a front-driver, you get torque steer. The Altima I also tested is a perfect example.

    So, start with AWD and you don't worry about traction and torque steer.

    I'd like to see Subaru make 4 wheel disc brakes standard across the line. Cut costs by not even making drums any more. ABS already is standard, so it's feasible.

    I agree that the headliner and sun visors, at least, need an upgrade in materials. That's not much to ask for.

    -juice
  • brekkebrekke Member Posts: 304
    I agree 100%. I never understood why the RS gets rear discs but not the wagons, especially since wagons are their bread 'n butta. I think a lot of people would choose the wagon over the sedan if the suspensions and brakes were identical.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    a 2.5 RS sedan, similar to ours, but with a Momo steering wheel. Sounds like some of the refinements that the Japanese/Aussie Legacy just got, the Impreza got too; the dual mass flywheel for one.

    http://www.autoweb.com.au/start_/showall_/id_SUB/doc_sub0110121/article.html

    Bob
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    Hi all:

    Read the latest car & driver. 2.5 RS made second to Mazda MP3. 5-dodge neon, 4 - sentra se-r, 3- vw jetta.

    Surprised that R.S made to 2nd I think it should be no.1 compared to MP3.
    165 hp vs. 140 hp
    AWD vs FWD
    More std vs. MP3
    crisp handling in 2.5 RS
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/comparisontests/2001/november/200111_comparisontest_banditos.xml
  • amishraamishra Member Posts: 367
    Guys,

    Are you factoring in that the 165 HP is to drive 4 wheels is likely comparable to 130 HP to drive 2 wheels? I have a difficult time believing that the RS / OBS would be any faster.
  • amishraamishra Member Posts: 367
    oops .. just read the other post. I think 165 HP is barely equivalent to 125 hP in a FWD car; probably even less with the heavy body weights Subaru has got.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    just updated Aussie Imprezas: Just go to the "Impreza 2.5 RS joins cheaper, faster WRX" link.

    http://www.drive.com.au/

    Also, they mention the price of the Aussie STi, in relation to the normal WRX. If the pricing comparison holds true for US models, it would translate (if the STi were available today here in the USA) to around $32K.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    on that Aussie site, is an article on the Nissan X-Trail. I can't help but think that North America won't soon get this vehicle. So, here's a preview...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's the best selling SUV in Japan, so it should arrive here at some point.

    In Europe, the best seller is the Freelander, which is also on the way.

    The pressure is on. Can't wait to see the next Forester, and what improvements it'll get.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Ash- Where exactly did you get that 165HP AWD was the equivalent of 125HP 2WD? You're kidding right? A 25% loss of HP due to AWD? That doesn't even come close to passing the common sense test.

    IF that were the case, manufacturers, BMW for example, wouldn't be able to give away the 330xi, much less charge a premium. IIRC, Audi lists their AWD A-4 as being 2/10s of a sec slower to 60. In Audi's case, that's maybe a 3% penalty for AWD.

    -Frank P.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Whoa! Can't believe I missed that one!

    Measuring hp on an AWD dyno, you'll have a number like that. But not in measuring 0-60 times. BHP is BHP, no matter how you slice it.

    Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well unfortunately, all manufacturers measure their HP @ the Flywheel. Which is a totally meaningless statement. The true test of HP is how much HP actually makes it to he wheels.

    I wouldn't be suprised if 25-30% or more is lost to AWD, which only 15-25% is lost to FWD. Also different systems will eat up different amounts of power.

    -mike
  • amishraamishra Member Posts: 367
    Frank,

    See this article: Horsepower in the Real World right from Edmunds themself.

    (There's a index on the right side for all the cars tested).

    The amount of losses depended alot on who the manufacturer was.

    They've got losses from 14-24% for FWD, probably more with an automatic; so 20-30% loss for AWD, I wouldn't be surprised in the least.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The #s I posted above were total guesses on power loss to driveline. Guess I was closer than I thought.

    -mike
  • amishraamishra Member Posts: 367
    good guess Mike!!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the Toyko Motor Show. Besides showing some of the strangest cars (both concept and production), some of the model names are just outrageous. The following link is just a hint of what's to come. BTW, Subaru will be showing a new 7-passanger concept wagon.

    http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=718

    Bob
  • 1subydown1togo1subydown1togo Member Posts: 348
    Check out this Impreza wagon from the show

    http://auto.ascii24.com/auto24/issue/2001/1018/68nsh_kt1018_17.html


    and the i-club thread link

    http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103695

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Great guess, mike. You got a crystal ball there? If so, when are we gettin' a B4? ;-)

    WX01, eh? Let's keep an eye out. 3 rows sounds good. Wow, those are some ugly cars with funny names.

    The new Mazda 6 looks nice. 160hp from the 4 banger, and 219 from the V6, both with variable valve timing. Toss in an available 5 speed auto, a V6 with stick model, side air bags standard, optional side curtains, chain driven cams, and gorgeous styling. Look out, the only thing missing is AWD.

    -juice
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