Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

raleigh · February 2005

I have to agree with tmarkb2. I have the same set up he does -- without the tires -- and there is a huge difference over stock. The stock Envoy does ride great. But as virtually every road test has pointed out, it is simply too soft, to the point where going much over 60 in this thing is downright dangerous. With the set up I have now, the faster you go, the better it feels -- which is as it should be.

I don't know how many of you have watched the BBC show "Fifth Gear" on the Speed Channel. They recently had an eye-opening test where a Land Rover (equipped with a full roll cage and driven by a professional stunt driver) attempted to swerve around a car that braked suddenly in front of him -- an all-too-common occurrence. At just 45 MPH, the Land Rover flipped over several times. They did the same test in a Jag sedan, and the car merely slid out, even at 90 MPH. The driver summed things up by saying he wouldn't want to attempt the same maneuver with any of the SUVs on the market today.

tidester · February 2005

Take a look at this: sysop, "Forums Software! Your Questions Answered..." #1846, 18 Feb 2005 4:37 pm

It might help until we get the matter resolved.

tidester, host

tblazed · February 2005

Quick tip on that - IE text size stays set once you select it even when you close and restart it. With Firefox every time you start it you have to use "CTRL +" to increase text size. Foxfire text size doesn't stay where you set it (on my computer anyway) when you close and reopen it. Always reverts back to a small text size.

Sorry to deviate from the main topic. '02 Trailblazer still going strong with no problems.

carnuts · February 2005

Earlier this month, GM knocked $1,500 off the manufacturer's suggested retail prices of its midsize SUV lineup -- Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy and Buick Rainier -- and $2,000 off most extended versions

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0502/21/autos-96165.htm

stever · February 2005

You may want to play with Tools > General > Fonts & Colors and see if changing the Size (pixels) box works in your Firefox.

Steve, Host

tblazed · February 2005

Adjusting text size just makes the text display errors worse. Interesting to note that every other site I go to has none of these display errors.

stever · February 2005

Check out this thread:

mac24, "Forums Software! Your Questions Answered..." #1836, 17 Feb 2005 4:07 pm

It sounds like you are one of the lucky ones....

Steve, Host

imadad2 · February 2005

Wait until this summer when Chevrolet and GMC jack up their rebates to $4500 or $5000. With a GM card discount on top of that, getting a TB or Envoy couldn't be any easier and cheaper.

I love it when Chevrolet over produces a vehicle and then is amazed they have tons of them left over.

mookie14 · February 2005

I have an '03 TBlazer and have been experiencing a whining sound when I turn the steering wheel to the left. I have already been to a combination of 2 dealerships several different times to address the issue.

The 1st dealership lubed it several times before putting in a steering wheel support bearing. If this was to correct the problem, I wouldn't have to send my Tblazer in to the 2nd dealership.

This dealership says that they fixed the problem by putting some gasket on. Now it made turning worse!

Does anyone have any idea what I should do in this case? This has become a constant headache. Has anyone have this problem with their TBlazer? What do you recommend?

paulpro · February 2005

I owned a 2002 Envoy that the wheel had an internal "wiping or scraping" sound. Turned out the electrical signals are transmitted to the steering wheel buttons using a coiled flexible printed circuit. It is held in place by little tabs. My had one part mis-located, the assembler apparently got in a little of a hurry. Put it back together properly and everything was fine.

The dealer kept trying to lube it, but that would only help till the lube was pushed out of the way.

Don't give up. It is mechanical. Mechanical things break or get out of adjustment - and mechanical things can be fixed. It just takes the intelligence and persistence to figure it out. Don't let them wear you down because they are lazy or don't want to fool with it.

Paul P

ficuss · February 2005

"I love it when Chevrolet over produces a vehicle and then is amazed they have tons of them left over"
imadad2, do you think poor quality and low resale value have anything to do with overstock?
Bigger rebates and more incentives will make the situation worse. I don't think anyone is going to be able to trade in an 02 for instance and buy an 05. The trade in price for the 02's and 03's may be next to zero by the time they are done giving everything away.

paulyjsob · February 2005

I do agree with the resale value. Its horrible. I was thinking of trading my 03 envoy SLE 4x4 with 35000 miles in for a chevy tahoe or yukon. The trade in value is a hair over $15000. I still owe $16000 on it so trading it in is out of the question.

paulyjsob · February 2005

Is the Auto AWD feature on the Envoy the same on that's used on the Rainer on a full time basis? If it is, I really feel sorry for Rainier/Bravada owners. At times there seems to be a good deal of lag time before the 4 wheel drive kicks in. A lot of times the car is already sideways before the 4 wheel drive engages. I almost never use that feature. Is there something wrong with my system?

tpken · February 2005

Sounds like Bilsteins with better tires and springs keep the smooth ride but tighten up the handling. Does the Trailblazer come equiped with the same standard suspension as the Envoy?

jaybird50 · February 2005

Check my earlier post--a whole host of problems with the 4x4. Also check the TSBs. Dealer should fix for free.

wpkelleysr · February 2005

I'll check. I'm not sure what OEM is in an 02 TB

- WPK

elevatorguy · February 2005

Paulysjob,
Are all of the Envoy's auto AWD? Does it not have the options like the TB has of 2WD, Auto, 4 HI and 4 LO? If it only has Auto AWD, when did they start this and have the issues been worked out since the 1st year problems?

Thanks

paulyjsob · February 2005

Envoys do have the option of using 2wd, A4wd, 4hi, and 4lo. I always use 4hi because A4wd doesn't give me any confidence in slippery conditions. It just doesn't seem to react in time. I really don't think there's a problem with me truck. The A4wd works, just not fast enough.

gam2 · February 2005

The Auto 4WD in my Envoy is slow. My '02 Bravada wasn't much better, not even close to the Subie Outback I had. You could not tell when it kicked in. I do the Hi 4WD thing in snow too.

Greg

scudman · February 2005

I have a '05 T/B and during the last two snow storms the Auto feature was indeed slow. I now just go right to 4HI.

A quick introduction for any interested:

2005 Black/Black Trailblazer Every option except engine heater. I purchased this through a Supplier Discount program. Truck is 3 months old and has 2500 miles. I am somewhat pleased with the T/B but have a few quirks.

1: Chevrolet should have left the white gauges(gave it a more sportier feel)

2: Still cannot believe an almost $40,000.00 truck has no under hood or glovebox light.

3: As mentioned above, slow response on the auto 4wd

4: Gas Mileage at Corvette #'s but was expected.

5: Fancy controls on the steering wheel but no temp. control as on the Explorers.

6: Like the idea of turn signals on the mirrors but cannot be seen during the day, should have went with the tahoe's in the mirror design.

7: would have liked to see a power fold away mirror also as in the tahoe.

8: Ride quality is great, smooth as silk

9: not too impressed with the performance overall, but then again this is my first SUV in 4 years. Traded in my Impala for the T/B

I will update more as time goes on.

paulyjsob · February 2005

I'm glad to hear that my a4wd systen isn't the only one that sucks. I'm surprised I haven't heard much about the slowness of the system. I honestly never bother using it. And if I owned a bravada or rainier, I'd be seriously pissed of at how poorly it works.

01_hoe · February 2005

Maybe it is possible to have the GM service department reflash the PCM to allow AWD to react quicker?

jay_24 · February 2005

The Buick and I image the Bravada are different than the Tblazer and Envoy. TBlazer and Envoy have a auto 4x4 switch, but this basically just detects wheel spin and then pushes the 4x4 button for you. (Taking its sweet time to fully engage.) It also has 4hi, 4lo and 2wd.

The Buick/Bravada use a "SmartTrak" system that works differently and doesn't have a low range or 'off/2wd' It is basically engaged all the time and works faster than the "Auto 4x4" of the others.

--jay

tmarkb2 · February 2005

tpken,

You got it. The ride is not as smooth but certainly isn't harsh.

Check my comments at post# 14618 for all the upgrades. The way it's set up now, I can actually make my Envoy "dirt track" on an on/off ramp or spend all day "drifting" on a wet parking lot. Please don't tell my mom!

I think the only difference between the TB and Envoy's suspensions is the wheel diameter. The TBs come with 16" vs. the Envoy's 17".

tmarkb2 · February 2005

All,

I recently noticed that my license plate lights were out. I haven't gone to the trouble of checking fuses but all other lights, interior and exterior, are working and the bulbs seem to be OK. I only have a test lamp to check the sockets so not sure if I'm getting juice to the bulbs or not.

Has anyone else had these lights fail and could this be related to the tail/stop lamp recall? I have yet to get to the dealer to get that done.

paulyjsob · February 2005

That's good to know. I always through they just took the 2hi, 4hi, and 4lo out and called it full time AWD. I did not know that smartrak was different then A4WD.

gam2 · February 2005

Smartrak (or Dumbtrak as known by some) is not on all the time. Older Bravada's had a viscous clutch
tranfer case that worked much better than the current one. The current Bravada is similar to the Envoy in that is senses wheelslip between the front and rear axle and electronically locks up the transfer case. It may have less of a reaction time than in the Envoy, but you could still feel it engage with a thunk.

GAM

imadad2 · February 2005

I would not go as far as to say that there is poor quality in the TB or Envoy. I would agree that there is Poorer quality than say a Toyota, but I have had excellent quality from every Chevrolet I have ever owned. I drove a Nova into the ground. I drove a Caprice into the ground. I drove a full size van into the ground. I think Toyota makes a better product, and that hurts GM resale. I would however, put any Chevorlet against a Ford or Dodge and would come out ahead (IMO). I see Trailblazers and Envoys every where. I see them more than any other midsize SUV. The market is flooded with them. I love this truck. I think it is the nicest looking SUV on the market. It is a shame that if I want a new model, I won't get anything for a trade in. Rebates and incentives do hurt trade ins, but most of us know that trading in any vehicle at a dealer will get you little to nothing.

ficuss · February 2005

I don't think too many Triplets will be driven into the ground. Repair costs will convince people to sell them to the junk yards first. The triplets are indeed nice to look at. There have been no complaints about looks. Fit and finish is even good. The assembly is very good. The problems were and still are in the reliability and complexity of design. IMO too many parts have needed to be repaired or recalled to call this a good car. Incentives and rebates coupled with employee, friend of employee, supplier discounts and GM card cash incentives have made this car affordable to many who would otherwise not buy it. So, the reason you see so many of them is not because of quality, it's because of price. I have gotten to know my dealer mechanics better with the TB than with any other car I've ever owned. There is no need to be on a first name basis with your mechanic unless he is your neighbor.
BTW, I own 2 Ford Cargo vans, I don't know my Ford mechanic by name.

scottc454 · February 2005

I'll be driving mine into the ground. I guess it all depends on when that occurs.

Most of the problems occurred because it was a new design. I'm not saying that's an excuse, just a reason. It's only natural that a company works out problems as a design gets older. Case in point - look at your cargo vans. How much does a van change year to year?

ross1962 · February 2005

I think the only difference between the TB and Envoy's suspensions is the wheel diameter. The TBs come with 16" vs. the Envoy's 17".

Actually the basic suspension is the same, but there is an option for rear air suspension on the Envoys. The Trailblazer LTZ comes with 17" wheels standard - LS and LT come with 16" std. The Envoys do come with Michelin Cross Terrain tires which do soften the ride vs. the BFG's on the TB.

ross1962 · February 2005

Gas Mileage at Corvette #'s but was expected.

You don't say which engine you have, but 19-20+ MPG Hwy is not uncommon with the I6 and 2WD. Yours is not quite broken in yet. You can expect better mileage after about 6000 miles. If you have the 4.10 diff, 4WD, and the V8 you can, of course, expect lower MPG.

ficuss · February 2005

Not much, that's why the basics like brake lights and wiper motors are rock solid. Engines change somewhat but cylinder sleeves don't shift. The engines have gone from point ignition to electronic, from carbs to fuel injectors, but the basics are solid. The vans are not very complex and their dependability is a direct result of that. What good is high tech if it lets you down?

scottc454 · February 2005

I must point out that a Corvette actually gets incredibly good gas mileage, like 19 city/28 highway.

st1300v4 · February 2005

I just got back from my first drive after installing the Hotchkis bar on my '02 Bravada. Much improved cornering with substantially less lean. Too short a drive to tell about the ride quality. The bar was a snap to install and as someone pointed out a while back (thanks!), there is no need to drop the trailing link as shown in the instructions. Just unbolt the bar end links and the bushings and it comes right out.

I ordered mine direct from Hotchkis and the only issue I had is they were out of stock and it took 2 months to receive the part.

mookie14 · February 2005

I wondering i got a 03 tblazer and i got 46000 miles on it i just bought the new goodyear forteras tires. And man i think the shocks, coil springs or struts all are not leaking but the ride is like bump bump not smooth. So what should i do?? And if i do replace them or a componet which one or more should i do.

01_hoe · February 2005

Did you have the bump bump ride before the tires? If only since the tires, could be bad balance job. A road force balance using the Hunter GSP9700 machine is the real way to get a good balance or find a bad tire that won't balance. (Goodyear tires sometimes fall in the won't balance category.)

adamjeeps · February 2005

Check pressure of tires, might be too high, should be around 30-35 psi. They might need balanced, as noted, might be just a harder ride than stock tires. If it was smooth before, then chances are its the tires. Maybe lugs not tight all around? Have the tire shop mount 4 different tires and test those out.

tblazed · February 2005

Here's an example of the text errors overlaps etc I am seeing here with Firefox. Edmunds is the only web site that exhibits these problems. Please forward to the appropriate website guru.

wpkelleysr · February 2005

I don't think the license plate lights are part of the recall. I lose about one license plate light every year or so. I bought two or three at Kragan (cheeep) and just replace them from time to time. It takes about 1 minute, less than the time it would take to even explain it to the dealer.

I just view it as a maintenance item.

- WPK

tidester · February 2005

I passed that info on. Incidentally, I am using Firefox and all the posts look fine.

tidester, host

mookie14 · February 2005

Hey 01 and other guys or gals could be wrong no harm intended. Um the bf goodrich tires was like bad bump bump. These are a little better or i guess to many holes on these streets i drive. My wife said as i pushed down on the front of the auto she felt a little bouncing from the struts. By the way are those covered in the gm major guard warranty i know the shocks are not. And last would you all say if you put a borla on your auto should you definetly put a chip on also to get the max out of the exhaust or a programmer??? thanks.

raleigh · February 2005

Something has definitely gone haywire with this site. I get great big print with internet explorer (despite using the smallest available print) and, on Firefox, real small print as well as the same sort of mis-alignment tblazed2 complained about. Also, on Firefox, it often won't let me sign me. Says there is no account with my e-mail address!! Needless to say, this is real annoying. Can't you please revert this back to the way it was?

raleigh · February 2005

Also, the Envoy gets Bilstein shocks. The Trailblazer doesn't.

tblazed · February 2005

Text problems will usually straighten out for the most part if I refresh the page once. No problem logging in, but it won't remember me.

BTW my 2002 TB has Bilstein shocks on the rear from the factory. That's what that the label on them says. Envoy and TB share the same part number (15172342) for the rear shocks. Exception is the auto-leveling rear suspension.

stever · February 2005

We reported your problems too Raleigh. Check in the Forums Software! Your Questions Answered... and the Inside Line Feedback and Questions discussion for more.

Steve, Host

gmcman · February 2005

I believe when you engage the A4WD the transfer case has been partially engaged so when slip is occured on the rear driveshaft it engages the front. With the engine not running you can hear one of the servos do something in the transfer case but not as much if you were to engage 4WD. It is helpful in parking lots or somewhere that requires alot of sharp turns when 4WD is not needed as much, it keeps the front wheels from binding up.

gmcman · February 2005

I tried the BFG's at the tire rack about 1 week too late, they are now discontinued. I shoulda done it but I hesitated. The asymmetrical SP5000's look like a good deal (my 2nd choice) much better than the symmetrical versions which should have been axed along time ago. Sorry about the late reply but I was on vacation. Thanks for the tips though.

mookie14 · February 2005

Can you give me some input from message 16118 also had the tires checked pressure was at 38 instead of 32. I told them about it they apologized ride is better so give your input thanks man.

01_hoe · February 2005

My opinion, and just my opinion, if you were to put a Borla exhaust system on your TB, then you should look at a custom tune from Wester, (when he gets it completed). The chips are getting mixed reviews from all I have read. Personally I am waiting on a Westers tune.

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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