um, they're the same thing. TorSen is a trademarked brand name of Gleason corporation, whereas "helical" is a generic term describing a mechanical limited-slip differential that automatically biases torque via a set of helical worm gears.
so a helical differential could be a torsen, but it could also be a quaife or several other things.
thank you, drive through. :-D
also-- the Prelude SH didn't use a helical LSD at all. it used the active torque transfer system, which was an active differential that biased torque for turning. they say it didn't do much in a straight line though, and so it shouldn't technically be considered a "limited slip" differential. I say "bah", it might suck for straightline traction but it's still an active LSD. ;-)
I recall you mentioning in previous posts that the 4EAT WRX has a torque-sensing AWD system. The thread above basically debunks that theory by showing that the gearset is, in fact, not torque-sensing, but more an open differential.
Check these out > some of the designs look very good (from the japanese magazine), others I'm not so exited about. I do like the new hood scoop, it's somehow undestated yet more agressive. Cool.
*Cross-post just this one time* I picked it up late Saturday afternoon and put 250 miles on it. Options: cross bar, cargo tray, bumper cover, cargo net air filtration, armrest extender upgraded sound and alarm. Purchased at Flemington Subaru in NJ and it was the easiest buying experience I've ever had. Everything was done via phone and fax so it was very quick when I picked up the car.
My first little complaint is that the flat cross bar is too low to the roof. I have a pad and straps that I use to carry my surfboard, and the front pad nearly touches the roof. It's fastened with a velcro strap the rubs the roof when I attach it. I may end up getting the round bars.
I recommend picking up the Yakima round bar set from REI. Yakima makes Subaru's OEM kits and, if you're an REI member, there's a patronage dividend kickback for you.
um, they're the same thing. TorSen is a trademarked brand name of Gleason corporation, whereas "helical" is a generic term describing a mechanical limited-slip differential that automatically biases torque via a set of helical worm gears.
so a helical differential could be a torsen, but it could also be a quaife or several other things.
Actually, the Quaife etc have a helical cut set of gears while the Gleason Torsen uses Invex cut gears. Functionally, they behave almost the same but the hardware is slightly different. The Acura Integra Type-R uses a Gleason Torsen while the Honda Prelude Type-SH (with the ATTS) and the Acura 3.2CL-s (with 6-speed trans) uses a helical-cut Diff, which aids in the Torque distribution. I drove a Prelude Type-SH a while back and had trouble distinguishing it from a RWD car. Torque-steer was completely absent, even with a powered launch !
As an additional heads-up, diffs like the Quaife are very transparent (eg. Honda ATTS) in terms of behaving almost like an open differential in a straight line while kicking in when negotiating a curve/corner.
Kevin - Yes, TONS of changes for the '03's. Light around ignition and blue grille badge with slightly different (bigger?) stars.
AH - Actually, my wife has the Legacy OB and I had a 97 OBS. I upgraded by 90 h.p.
I got the manual, but I was undecided for quite a while. I was primarily considering the auto because of a knee problem (chondromalacia) and the "wife factor".
I test drove the auto about five times and the manual twice. I decided that I would just endure the occasional pain and maybe get some physical therapy. As for the "wife factor", she has her own car, and said she would consider manual lessons (from an outside party ). Had the Sportshift been available, it's possible that I would've bought that.
the most crucial lesson that often gets overlooked is learning the engagement point in the clutch travel. sit in the car in an open lot and start it up. (the engine should be stopped after shifting to reverse, so push in the clutch and take it out of reverse into neutral.)
with clear road ahead, depress the clutch a few times just to learn the feel. now depress the clutch fully and shift to first gear. release the clutch slowly *without* applying throttle and when you feel the vehicle begin to move, depress again. repeat this exercise often, like every time before you begin driving lessons.
the idea here is that you get very familiar with the clutch action without distractions of trying not to stall, trying to shift smoothly, or trying to fit in with normal traffic. all those things are soooooo much easier when you know the clutch first.
I can never figure out why so many women don't learn/want to learn how to drive a MT. I'm glad your wife is willing to learn - I think everyone should learn this fairly early on. A friend of mine is in a box right now - his left ankle is in a cast and he drives a MT. His friends come in 2 kinds - those that have MT also, and those who don't know how to drive MT, so can't trade cars with him.
I had my manual OBS for 5 years and she tried once and said that was enough. One day I lost my contacs in the ocean and forgot to bring my glasses. We were racing against the sunset while I still had decent daytime vision. :-)
Well you get the point. Until a few years ago, we were the crazy couple who special ordered an Accord with a MT. She almost decked a salesman when he commented that "most (rich suburban) housewives want an automatic" when we were looking for an Explorer.
I think she will warm up to the WRX if I get one.TC
I was laughing so hard about the wife wanting to deck the honda salesman. Coming from a family that has special ordered at least 2 cars to get an MT, I can feel your pain. -Rachel apparently I'm an anomaly! I love cars, and will only drive stick.
when I went car shopping, the salesmen would say "auto?" When I responded, "noooo..." I'd get startled looks and the onceover.
Sometimes I still have trouble shifting smoothly in my Subaru. Worse with a/c on (don't know why). Does anyone have any suggestions? I try to keep my movements fluid and measured.
Find I need to get the tack to 2.5-3K RPMs for a smooth take-off vs. 2K w/o the A/C on. Car stalls a great deal more often with A/C (takes power from engine, when turbo is not helping results in more revs to get the same power).
Hey Rachel, nice to see you on the boards. I've only seen you recently in our chats.
Caroline: my wife had the same complaint until I looked at the throttle pedal closely - notice the top of it is hinged and does not actually increase the throttle until after the first inch or two of travel.
But - press the bottom of the pedal and it does, right away. I don't know why it's that way, maybe for a gradual throttle input? Either way, just knowing that and adjusting how you depress the throttle makes a difference.
The air blower isn't too powerful too. On a very hot day, I notice that I need to set it to at least level three. On my Audi, setting it to two is enough, and it goes all the way to 10. When it is on 10, it is intolerable (and a lot noisier than the WRX's too)
I think the A/C is pretty wimpy in general. Luckily, tinting the windows makes a big difference.
I agree that the ac is weaker than other cars I have had, but it is plenty adaquate even in Texas (with tinting). A silver lining is that I am not having to continually tweak the settings to stay comfortable. On the last several cars I have that were not temp controlled, I have had problems keeping an even setting. One reason could be that they were overdesigned and very sensitive to the controls.
I generally stay comfortable in the WRX with the temp setting at about 75% and a 2 level fan. Except for initial cooldown, I do very little adjusting.
http://www.autoweek.com/ and read the second story on the board, regarding a juiced (sorry juice, no pun intended) Legacy B4 with twin turbochargers... not that I would trade my WRX wagon. But my wife's 97 OBS wagon could be leaving the stable in 2004. Drool....
The A/C on our Forester and on our Legacy is great. We test drove a BMW 325i that stickered for $32 grand and in comparison the fans were a lot noisier and the car took much longer to get to a comfortable temperature.
My Forester has tint, so I can never stay above the "1" fan setting. Our Legacy uses 1 or 2, rarely higher.
Make sure you put it on recirculate, so you're not continuously cooling hot outside air.
I have a 2002 WRX 5 spd. wagon with 12,000 miles. I am experiencing a "shudder" or shake in the car when I back up or take off when the car has not been driven for a while (ex. overnight or after work). It is very evident and goes away once the car has been driven. The dealer is giving me the usual "cannot duplicate", so I have arranged to have the car remain there for a few days until they can. The starter also has a problem every few weeks where it does not grab the flywheel and just grinds. Any ideas as to what this might be? Anyone else with similar experiences? I love the car, but I am getting very close to buying another VW or Audi instead.
clutch shudder is a well documented phenomenom on i-club. be persistent, and they will take care of it. try another dealer if this one isn't giving you satisfaction.
the starter problem has been discussed over there also, I don't remember the conclusion.
vw/audi? doesn't sound like a reliability upgrade to me.
petebird, I had the same problem on a 99 Forester, and the dealer(s) could do NOTHING about it. So, I traded it in! Not the best solution on a new vehicle... although my wagon WRX has so far been trouble free of this little glitch that others have already discussed ad nauseum.
Texas iClub members have had their clutches replaced under warranty for the same reason. I have never heard of the starter issue. If you search iClub, I'll bet you'll find a thread or two.
I like rowing gears, something I haven't done on my own car for a few years with all the kids and getting minivans etc for the wife, almost got a MT Legacy back in 98 but they had this bright red AT on their lot for 6 months and they were desperate to sell it so it was such a bargain I got the AT. Actually having a AT is useful when you are using the cell phone! Of course I only use the phone for absolute emergenices!
I was talking to Dennis. :-) But it is nice to get another viewpoint too. )
Actually, I never ever use my cellphone while driving. Eating/drinking/smoking are also banned in my car. I just concentrate on the driving sensations. :-) Incidentally, after fitting on the high-performance Subaru STi suspension (What they term in the Subaru brochure as the "Performance suspension"), along with a variety of bushings that came with it, the handling has grown much more sharper, without any noticeable degradation in ride-quality. 17" Prodrive P1s (Prodrive is the company who prepares the Rally race cars of Subaru) with 215/45ZR17 tires have just added onto the fun-factor. )
Actually, it has lowered the car by around 3/4". The new 215/45ZR17 tires/wheels have a smaller diameter than the stock tire/wheel combo by 0.5" (even though that is the size Subaru recommends for the WRX). So overall it has lowered by 1.25". The handling is crisp. The lateral/trailing links of the STi are pivoting ones (unlike the fixed ones of the regular WRX) which improves the turn-in response very well. Also, the rear sway-bar links in the STi, is a pillow-ball set-up. Again, a vastly different setup from the regular WRX. The struts in the STi are MUCH LARGER and obviously more stronger than the regular WRX struts. There are lots of these differences in both suspensions, not available when one glances at a spec-sheet !!
Also, when you push down on the regular WRX, it goes down by quite a bit; but with the STi suspension, it barely budges, but magically has not affected the ride by any noticeable amount. I think this is where the difference between an aftermarket suspension and a Subaru factory engineered high-performance suspension (engineered to work as a package with the WRX chassis) comes in....without degrading the ride-quality, they have achieved much crisper handling. I am re-adjusting to the car's new handling capability. No photos yet.
Comments
so a helical differential could be a torsen, but it could also be a quaife or several other things.
thank you, drive through. :-D
also-- the Prelude SH didn't use a helical LSD at all. it used the active torque transfer system, which was an active differential that biased torque for turning. they say it didn't do much in a straight line though, and so it shouldn't technically be considered a "limited slip" differential. I say "bah", it might suck for straightline traction but it's still an active LSD. ;-)
-Colin
http://forums.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=227548
I recall you mentioning in previous posts that the 4EAT WRX has a torque-sensing AWD system. The thread above basically debunks that theory by showing that the gearset is, in fact, not torque-sensing, but more an open differential.
Ken
-Colin
http://www.rexilla.com/
I'm considering the bigger sway bar, though, just because my car's front end can easily overdrive the rear. Wheee!
I picked it up late Saturday afternoon and put 250 miles on it.
Options: cross bar, cargo tray, bumper cover, cargo net air filtration, armrest extender upgraded sound and alarm.
Purchased at Flemington Subaru in NJ and it was the easiest buying experience I've ever had. Everything was done via phone and fax so it was very quick when I picked up the car.
My first little complaint is that the flat cross bar is too low to the roof. I have a pad and straps that I use to carry my surfboard, and the front pad nearly touches the roof. It's fastened with a velcro strap the rubs the roof when I attach it. I may end up getting the round bars.
I LOVE this car!
-Dennis
I recommend picking up the Yakima round bar set from REI. Yakima makes Subaru's OEM kits and, if you're an REI member, there's a patronage dividend kickback for you.
Ed
Bob
Sorry, had to be said since you mentioned the surfboard. ;-)
Congratulations Dennis, I know there's a lot of fun times ahead for you.
-Colin
No digicam, so pics might be a while. Or I could just go to a meet where paisan is.
-Dennis
Any changes from the 2002? The Subaru magazine did not indicate any changes to the 2003s.
so a helical differential could be a torsen, but it could also be a quaife or several other things.
Actually, the Quaife etc have a helical cut set of gears while the Gleason Torsen uses Invex cut gears. Functionally, they behave almost the same but the hardware is slightly different. The Acura Integra Type-R uses a Gleason Torsen while the Honda Prelude Type-SH (with the ATTS) and the Acura 3.2CL-s (with 6-speed trans) uses a helical-cut Diff, which aids in the Torque distribution. I drove a Prelude Type-SH a while back and had trouble distinguishing it from a RWD car. Torque-steer was completely absent, even with a powered launch !
As an additional heads-up, diffs like the Quaife are very transparent (eg. Honda ATTS) in terms of behaving almost like an open differential in a straight line while kicking in when negotiating a curve/corner.
Later...AH
Later...AH
AH - Actually, my wife has the Legacy OB and I had a 97 OBS. I upgraded by 90 h.p.
I got the manual, but I was undecided for quite a while. I was primarily considering the auto because of a knee problem (chondromalacia) and the "wife factor".
I test drove the auto about five times and the manual twice. I decided that I would just endure the occasional pain and maybe get some physical therapy. As for the "wife factor", she has her own car, and said she would consider manual lessons (from an outside party
Had the Sportshift been available, it's possible that I would've bought that.
-Dennis
the most crucial lesson that often gets overlooked is learning the engagement point in the clutch travel. sit in the car in an open lot and start it up. (the engine should be stopped after shifting to reverse, so push in the clutch and take it out of reverse into neutral.)
with clear road ahead, depress the clutch a few times just to learn the feel. now depress the clutch fully and shift to first gear. release the clutch slowly *without* applying throttle and when you feel the vehicle begin to move, depress again. repeat this exercise often, like every time before you begin driving lessons.
the idea here is that you get very familiar with the clutch action without distractions of trying not to stall, trying to shift smoothly, or trying to fit in with normal traffic. all those things are soooooo much easier when you know the clutch first.
-Colin
Congrats Dennis.
Black paint? I hope you're not a member of the OCD club, you'll be washing it twice a week!
-juice
Why? Because that relaxes the professor! ;-)
-juice
In our house, a happy marriage means getting someone else as a teacher.
I had my manual OBS for 5 years and she tried once and said that was enough.
One day I lost my contacs in the ocean and forgot to bring my glasses. We were racing against the sunset while I still had decent daytime vision. :-)
-Dennis
Bob
- Last three girls I have dated drove a stick!
.....
Er.... never mind, forget I even thought it ;-)
-Dave
I think she will warm up to the WRX if I get one.TC
-Rachel
apparently I'm an anomaly! I love cars, and will only drive stick.
Sometimes I still have trouble shifting smoothly in my Subaru. Worse with a/c on (don't know why). Does anyone have any suggestions? I try to keep my movements fluid and measured.
juice - congrats!
Caroline: my wife had the same complaint until I looked at the throttle pedal closely - notice the top of it is hinged and does not actually increase the throttle until after the first inch or two of travel.
But - press the bottom of the pedal and it does, right away. I don't know why it's that way, maybe for a gradual throttle input? Either way, just knowing that and adjusting how you depress the throttle makes a difference.
My wife is a smooth (clutch) operator now.
-juice
I think the A/C is pretty wimpy in general. Luckily, tinting the windows makes a big difference.
I generally stay comfortable in the WRX with the temp setting at about 75% and a 2 level fan. Except for initial cooldown, I do very little adjusting.
Mike
-Dennis
http://www.autoweek.com/ and read the second story on the board, regarding a juiced (sorry juice, no pun intended) Legacy B4 with twin turbochargers... not that I would trade my WRX wagon. But my wife's 97 OBS wagon could be leaving the stable in 2004. Drool....
My Forester has tint, so I can never stay above the "1" fan setting. Our Legacy uses 1 or 2, rarely higher.
Make sure you put it on recirculate, so you're not continuously cooling hot outside air.
-juice
the starter problem has been discussed over there also, I don't remember the conclusion.
vw/audi? doesn't sound like a reliability upgrade to me.
best of luck! perrito
Jim
-Dennis
Actually, I never ever use my cellphone while driving. Eating/drinking/smoking are also banned in my car. I just concentrate on the driving sensations. :-) Incidentally, after fitting on the high-performance Subaru STi suspension (What they term in the Subaru brochure as the "Performance suspension"), along with a variety of bushings that came with it, the handling has grown much more sharper, without any noticeable degradation in ride-quality. 17" Prodrive P1s (Prodrive is the company who prepares the Rally race cars of Subaru) with 215/45ZR17 tires have just added onto the fun-factor.
Later...AH
-juice
AH, sounds nice. I've been considering the P1's for a while now. I need to start saving.
-Dennis
Also, when you push down on the regular WRX, it goes down by quite a bit; but with the STi suspension, it barely budges, but magically has not affected the ride by any noticeable amount. I think this is where the difference between an aftermarket suspension and a Subaru factory engineered high-performance suspension (engineered to work as a package with the WRX chassis) comes in....without degrading the ride-quality, they have achieved much crisper handling. I am re-adjusting to the car's new handling capability. No photos yet.
Later...AH