Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon

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Comments

  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    Thanks for the responses on my tire question. I measured and calculated my circumference difference if I just changed one tire. it was about .4 in so I decided to change them all.

    Based on tirerack ratings and comments here and on another thread, I have decided on either the Goodrich KWDS or the Dunlop SP5000. The Discount Tire salesperson is trying to find either one quickly.
    They were willing to give me trade in on the three good RE92's which made their price cheaper overall than Tirerack's.

    Thanks again for the fast responses.
    Mike
  • robmarchrobmarch Member Posts: 482
    yes, but the real question is...will dealers honor the program on the STi? Did anyone successfully use the program to order a WRX before they were available on lots?

    I hope so :)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    My guess is that the STi will *not* be eligible, remember only 1700 units are to be sold thats about 4-5 per dealer. Heck SOA hasn't even verified that the STi will be available in the US officially.

    -mike
  • robmarchrobmarch Member Posts: 482
    that's the same line most dealers were using on wrx buyers when they were first announced. subaru announced how many they thought they were building to create high demand, then built significantly more. I just wondered if dealers were honoring the program while they were charging over sticker for walk-in buyers.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    SOA stuck to the 420 Yellow Rexs in the first year.

    Which was about 1/dealer.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I don't know of any dealers near me that charged over sticker for the WRX ever. Must be a lot of suckers in your area.

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I don't know of any dealers in NY/NJ that were charging over sticker either. But, there were a lot of dealers selling the WRX at sticker when some were selling $400-$600 over invoice (Spring '01).

    There are some dealers in NY/NJ that won't honor the VIP program for a WRX. That's why it's a good idea to check before you consider purchasing from them. Everything is listed in the VIP FAQ stating it's basically up to the dealer. You can also contact the VIP dept. after your paperwork is started and they will direct you to a dealer if you wish.

    IMHO, you can count on the STi being a true limited production model. SoA said the yellow was a limited production color, and it was.
    Some individual dealers, OTOH, were saying the WRX was a limited production model. That was baloney. It pays to do your homework. :-)

    -Dennis
  • fxsfxs Member Posts: 50
    The KDWS performs a little better than the SP5000 in the dry. Both tires are a major step up from the RE92. My KDWS tires made my recent NM-NYC roadtrip quite enjoyable-great comfort,steering response, and grip. They came in handy as I avoided countless debris falling from the back of pickups on I20. Maybe they were moving to Beverly Hills?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It is up to the dealer's discretion when it comes to a limited supply model. When we shopped with the VIP program in May, all models were eligible, including the brand new Forester.

    Not sure about the STi, though, and honestly I would not blame them if they excluded that. You want exclusivity, you gotta pay.

    -juice
  • cinosweivecinosweive Member Posts: 166
    I think that any manufacturer will produce as many of whatever they have to sell as consumers will buy. When sales of the WRX vastly exceeded expectations it suddenly became "unlimited" production. I suspect the same would be true of the STi. Had sales of the yellow WRX been hot enough, you can bet it would have been produced in greater numbers.

    I just wonder how many people will be willing to shellout 30 kiloclams for something based upon (and with the interior of) a sixteen thousand dollar car. That alone might keep in in limited production.
  • cinosweivecinosweive Member Posts: 166
    I heard that it was a bad idea to replace only a single tire on an all wheel drive vehicle. The line was that since the replacement tire will have a slightly larger circumference than the other three, it would put excessive wear on the differential. That is just what I heard - I'm no expert.
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    The replacing tire's circumference must be within 1/4 inch in difference between it and the existing 3 tires.

    -Dave
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    hmm $16K car? which interior do you speak of?

    -mike
  • robmarchrobmarch Member Posts: 482
    I can deal with the "16k" interior as long as the car still outperforms anything under 50k, as it does in europe. that's the magic of the wrx and the evo...functional, but pedestrian interior, with all of the dollars spent on power and handling. with reliability, also.

    but, i agree that there are a limited number of enthusiast drivers who are in the market for a 30k car without luxury features. I'm glad that they have chosen to dominate in a niche market, rather than water their product down to try to appeal to a wider audience.

    Let's put it this way...Subaru makes more profit on an STi than a WRX. If they're flying off the shelves and they still have build capacity, I would think they would keep building them until the buying trend levels off.
  • stoner420stoner420 Member Posts: 165
    The interior of the STi model is much nicer than even the WRX, have you seen the pics of the new restyled STi at http://www.subaru-global.com/topics/ms/paris2002/imprza.html ... the steering wheel and shift knob especially rock!! (I'm still ambivalent about the new Altima-looking headlights..)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I dunno, I guess I'm fine with a simple interior, as long as it's well assembled. The simple ones tend to be more durable and lighter.

    The new seats look nice - I just hope they're as supportive as the current seats.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    It's hard to compare N. America vs. Europe.

    In Europe, the current standard WRX gets different color, different seats, semi-automatic air conditioning among other things.

    Then there's the different brakes, wheels, dual range on non-WRX Impreza's, blah blah blah. :-)

    -Dennis
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it will be interesting to see what the US-spec version will be like. I just hope we get those gorgous dark gray 17" wheels, this time around.

    Bob
  • strider98strider98 Member Posts: 89
    does not work! I was driving out to Cleveland (Texas) to look at a house that one of our clients had purchased, when I was pulled over by a DPS officer for doing 73 in a 55. Non-residential area with no visible speed zone signs, man I was ticked off. Coulda sworn it was a 70.
    Anyway, fifteen minutes later I was going down the little county road that goes to the little trailer park where the house was. The road switched to gravel and dirt (mainly really powdery, dry sand) and started twisting and turning. I wasn't going more than 35-40 when I hit this turn that was all sand. I started sliding so I hit the gas to power out of it, when suddenly I started to fishtail so fast I thought I could see the rear of my car in front of me! I finally got hold of the car, but I was already headed for the sand and grass embankment on the right side. I shot up it and turned back on the road. I got out of the car and saw that I had scratched up the right air dam and popped the air out of the right front tire. I was so mad and scared that I shook for about 30 minutes after. After I had put on the doughnut and driven 2 1/2 hours to the nearest Subie dealer, the mechanic said that all I had done was move the right part of the bumper about a half-inch to an inch inward an popped a coupla plastic fastners. The tire was ok as well.

    That had to be the worst day of my life having to deal with my car. On top of it all, I couldn't find the dang house I was supposed to look at!

    Dejected in Houston,
    Seth
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well nothing will help in sand short of Rally Tires, and even that's marginal.

    -mike
  • robmarchrobmarch Member Posts: 482
    35-40 on an unscouted dirt/gravel/sand road is pretty fast, I think. The AWD system is confidence inspiring, but can't defy physics. You just naturally would have been going slower in a non-awd car, so it wouldn't seem like such an abrupt change from traction to no traction, I think?
  • cinosweivecinosweive Member Posts: 166
    I wasn't implying that the STi was in any way an inferior car. But the interior of the WRX, at least, is not too different from the entry level Impreza - the cheapest car sold by Subaru in the US. When you start getting over the $30K mark, you are in the luxury car market. The bulk of buyers in that market are less interested in performance than luxury and status.

    On the performance end, the STi will likely be the best bang for the buck on the highway - I just think that market, sans luxury, is limited.

    Me? I like the idea. If I thought I could afford the insurance I might even consider trading in the Rex.
  • cinosweivecinosweive Member Posts: 166
    This discussion has probably already been had - but I just saw the new face design for the first time. My 2 cents. Personally, I'm not real fond of the new Rex design. The new headlights make it look more like every other rice burner on the market. I think the current design is more distinctive - but I guess Subaru is trying to appeal to the mass market. Maybe that is a good thing.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Rob and Mike hit it on the head.
    The first thing we do when we off-road in the sand is let some air out of the tires and remove the ABS fuse. Also, there's a guy in the lead that is familiar with the roads and is using a radio to let everyone know about the conditions.

    Sand can be fun after some controlled fishtailing practice.

    Sorry about your crash.

    -Dennis
  • allythomallythom Member Posts: 11
    I would agree with robmarch. Most of the money in a WRX is spent on making it go. We buy these cars fully aware that they can move like stink, but have the interior from a Honda or Toyota. It is just a tilting of the cash/performance/comfort equation towards performance.

    Mitsubishi plays a similar game with the EVOs, monster engines, only with Hyundai/Kia interiors (really nasty plastics).

    The new-shape STi with its red-stitching and blue carpets looks nicer inside than my WRX. But I suspect the dash will be the same slightly cheap looking dark-gray-with-a-hint-of-brown plastic as in mine and as in the base 1.6litre Impreza TS sold in Europe.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the interior, its well made, comfortable and it really is light-years ahead of anything GM or Ford have ever sold in the US. It'd just be nice if FHI could take a leaf from the VW Big Book of Interiors without bumping up the price (fat chance right ?)

    When I ride in my friend's A4, I'm reminded of what a REALLY nice interior is like. But then his Audi dealer relieved him of 35grand for the privelige, and I can still spank him from any set of lights he chooses. I'd also put money on him needing more warranty work than me too. Who needs gel damped grab handles anyway ?

    The moral: You pays your money and takes your choice.
  • strider98strider98 Member Posts: 89
    Is there any way to set up a switch to flip the ABS on/off?

    Actually I was following the mailman...er, person, and they were going even faster. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make excuses; I know it was my fault, but I can't say I would be going slower in a non-AWD car, 'cause I wouldn't;)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    He drives the road everyday! hee hee

    -mike
  • strider98strider98 Member Posts: 89
    That's why I thought that it was ok. He/she was in a big Ford truck.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Knowing the course is probably worth more than anything, not to mention it isn't his truck! :)

    -mike
  • strider98strider98 Member Posts: 89
    It probably is his truck because usually rural PO drivers use their own vehicles, or at least the ones I've known did.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Sport Compact Car did it in one of their recent installments of Project WRX (I forget which one).
    You could also try the i-club.

    -Dennis
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Very interesting article on the benefits of AWD in the latest issue of Grassroots Motorsports. They tested a WRX, RSX Type S and 330i on dry and wet and the WRX came up on top.

    Ken
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    yeah but neither of the other two vehicles had an LSD at all.

    if they had, things might've been a bit different.

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Only problem with one is that if you get in an accident your insurance company might find a problem with having that. I'd just put a blown fuse in the place of the ABS fuse in that situation.

    -mike
  • wrxsoon1wrxsoon1 Member Posts: 158
    "yeah but neither of the other two vehicles had an LSD at all"

    Colin,
    How much difference would that have made on a front or rear wheel driven car. Why?

    Wouldn't the BMW's traction control system be just as effective as an LSD?

    Thanks,
    -Ian
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Ian:

    absolutely not. traction control, even when done very well, upsets the chassis because of the brakes being applied. it's also nowhere as effective for motorsport use because you're trying to react to wheelspin instead of prevent it from occuring.

    superbly done traction control and stability control with variable levels such as the Corvette uses is a great addition to having a limited-slip differential. but traction control can't replace an LSD.

    the easiest way to know what effect it would've had in that test would be to repeat the test with 2 different, yet reasonably similar cars as the WRX's competition.

    for the RSX, use a 97-01 Integra Type R. better suspension sure, but nearly the same engine and it has a torsen LSD.

    for the 330, use a 95-99 M3-- preferably a '95 because it has a 3.0L inline six just like the 330 but makes 240HP and weighs about 100lb less. it offers a clutch-type mechanical LSD.

    -Colin
  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    Yes, having an LSD would make a tremendous impact on handling and nasty weather capability. Having driven a FWD Prelude Type-SH, I know what the ATTS (Actually a modified Helical LSD), can do. Completely eliminates Torque steer and makes it behave like a RWD car, while retaining the traction advantages of having most of the weight on the driven wheels (front).

    I heard the same about the Torquey 6-speed Acura 3.2CL-Type-s, equipped with an LSD that is a carbon copy of the ATTS present in the Honda Prelude Type-SH (never driven the 6-speed CL-s however). If it can completely eliminate Torque steer from such a powerful FWD beast, then it can certainly compare favorably against vehicles having different driven wheels.

    JMHO.

    Later...AH
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    In the article, the drivers tested the 330i with traction control on and off. Not surprisingly, they achieved better times with it switched off.

    Ken
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    it is as brutal as they describe too. BMW's DSC is a none-to-subtle Hand of God that smacks you down as soon as it notices any wheelspin or excessive yaw. Fun is verboeten when it is active.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I guess a good LSD is becoming harder and harder to find, because Traction Control has basically taken its place in the market (if not its effectiveness).

    Go, you gotta go AWD!

    Regarding that sand scare - you must've been going as fast as Ed was in his Forester when he approached me from behind!

    -juice
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Not to be argumentative, but the ATTS sytem employed by the Prelude SH isn't a LSD at all. It's a system that employs a hydraulic Moment Control Unit that uses numerous sensors to open valves in the MCU body to drive one of two clutches (one for each front wheel). In operation, only one of the clutches is engaged, increasing the rotational rate of the outside wheel. It drives the torque thru a planetary gearset into the open differential, and then to the drive shaft. It's strictly a computer-controlled system, and offers none of the traction control abilities of a LSD.

    The LSD in the CL-S 6-speed is a true helical LSD, and has no design similarity to ATTS.

    I put a Quaife LSD (helical) in my Prelude, and the traction and cornering it provides in power-on situations is very impressive. It also makes better use of the front wheels when performing a hard launch.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I've tried telling Mr. Hunter that before about ATTS. He insists, by sources unknown to me, that it is an LSD.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think it's been written that it behaves effectively like an LSD (whether that's true or not). It may have been some press clips that mentioned something like that, because I seem to recall reading that too.

    -juice
  • rexaroorexaroo Member Posts: 174
    Hi, everyone! The time is finally coming up to ditch the RE92s (yea!) on our 5-spd. wagon, but I've run into a brick wall when it comes to choosing between the BFG KDWS's and the Dunlop SP5000's. Both of these are priced right at around $100 give or take a few bucks, but which tire is really better for all-out Rexing fun in all kinds of weather?

    1. The KDWS got the nod as the all-season tire of choice by the guys at Sport Compact Car in their Project WRX upgrade series. And if you've ever looked at that mag, you know these guys really know their stuff. But on the other hand . . .

    2. The guys at Tirerack.com recommend the Dunlop SP5000 as the best all-season radial for wet and dry handling, and one of their testers placed it first all-around with the KDWS ranked third in a comment on i-club.com. BUT, then again, . . .

    3. The KDWS get slightly higher marks by the customer reviews on Tirerack.com. And we're talking hundreds of thousands of responses here. It's pretty hard to ignore the first-hand experience of so many hard-core motorists with first-hand experience. HOWEVER, . . .

    4. The SP5000s have better snow handling, a more protruding sidewall that helps protect your alloys, and a slightly more comfortable ride. As mentioned in the recent Automobile magazine article, the ride of the WRX is one of it's best features and you want to preserve that. Even more important is that the SP5000s weigh an astounding
    4 1/2 lbs. less per tire than the KDWS. That's a whopping 22 lbs. of unsprung weight we're talking about here. And, after all, isn't reducing unsprung weight the whole point of shelling out big bucks for lighter weight alloy wheels?

    Before I drive myself completely crazy with this, can anyone offer a possible solution to this dilemma?
  • WarpDriveWarpDrive Member Posts: 506
    And I believe the SP5000's are also quieter.
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    The higher wear rating, the longer they will last. The longer they last, the cheaper it will be for you in the long run.

    I am guessing the B.F. Goodrich have a higher wear rating due to reputation and a more dense compound.

    Dunlop has a reputation for wearing out quicker than other brands, while B.F. Goodrich has a reputation for lasting (from coworkers, Tirerack, and tire shops).
  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    I had the same choices as finalists and decided on the KDWS because of my expectations for better wear, but I would have been happy with either.

    While I can't offer any personal comparisons, I have been very pleased with the KDWS. They are quiet, smooth, and handle great, a major step up in feel from the RE92's. The ride is somewhat stiffer but not uncomfortably so.

    Just pick one and go; I'll bet you will like either.

    Mike
  • rexaroorexaroo Member Posts: 174
    According to Tirerack, KDWS do have higher wear rating . . .plus the stiffer side walls give sharper steering and handling response from the reviews I've read.
    But the Dunlops come out better in tests when it comes to all-weather 4-seasons driving. And shaving off that extra unsprung weight really helps if you have a wagon, which carries a weight penalty over the sedan.

    See the problem here? . . . This comparison could go on forever :)
  • cinosweivecinosweive Member Posts: 166
    I don't believe the tire wear rating scale is standardized, and so comparisons of wear rating numbers between different brands should be meaningless.
  • aa717driveraa717driver Member Posts: 41
    Have a beer and flip a quarter. You'll definately be happier!:)TC
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