Hyundai Sonata 2006-2007

ray h · September 2004

delta4, yes, Hyundai has, indeed, come a long way. I just hope the company understands that its competition isn't standing still, either, and that one misstep could throw 'em back several years in sales. Buyers may be more inclined to forgive a glitch in Honda and Toyota quality because they're confident the problems (both at the manufacturing end and the servicing end) will be rectified reasonably quickly. Hyundai's prior quality probs (and too often accompanied by botched fixes at that) are still sufficiently fresh in the public's psyche that I feel the company has less leeway to err.

pzev, while I haven't any intention of double-checking your research which you shared, I do want to point out that prior to receiving a settlement offer from the GEICO adjuster, I had done a little homework of my own - consulting both Kelly Blue Book and Edmunds online. Both services' median valuations agreed with each other within ~$30.00 as I recall. These figures were for a six year old '96 Accord LX in "excellent" condition (no body dings, very minor and very few paint blemishes and near original gloss, no uphostery damage, no mechanical damage or defects, and all equipment working - at least prior to the collision...) with no optional or upgraded equipment. (I have simple tastes and my Accord LX I4 with automatic transmission fit mine perfectly - after I installed adhesive rosewood dash and door panel inserts...) The fact that my LX only had ~30,000 total miles didn't hurt the valuation, either. (yes, VERY unusual for a six+ year old car in California - got that car several months before I retired in 1996.) I expected to have a fight with the adjuster, but she was surprisingly pleasantly knowledgable, and cooperative. Her first words were that she hoped I had already researched the standard valuation services for a vehicle of mine's make, age, prior condition, and equipment. She then gave me the figure she had worked out and volunteered that if I insisted, I could probably get another $100.00 without a fight just by refusing the first offer. However, it would have to be cleared by GEICO's San Diego regional office which might delay things a week. The figure she gave me was about $25.00 over the average of the Kelly Blue Book and Edmunds medians. Call me stupid, but, 1> I wanted this over with, and 2> since the settlement offer was so close to my own research, I saw no honor in trying to screw the company for every last dime. I authorized her to process the check in the amount of her settlement offer which then arrived 48 hours later.

aristotle · September 2004

I do not know alpha01 personally but I find his comments on any vehicle to be truly unbiased and well-thought out. I have read his comments on many vehicles.

Based on the photos of the 05 Sonata that we have all seen, alpha's comment about the 05 Sonata's rear being very similar to the Accord's is beyond dispute. That and the fact that he has given credit for Hyundai where credit is due makes his arguments very credible.

We all have to learn to accept valid criticism without questioning the motives of the critic.

delta4 · September 2004

"delta4, yes, Hyundai has, indeed, come a long way. I just hope the company understands that its competition isn't standing still..." - ray h

Ray thanks for acknowledging the obvious. No one believes the competition is not aware of Hyundai's threat to challenge the market leaders. The point is that this company has committed itself to being a serious contender by investing over a billion (with a B! lol)in the U.S. by building a state-of-the-art manufacturing plant in Alabama.

Auto manufacturers do not commit those kinds of resources without an eye to the future or a belief that they can challenge the current market leaders. Hyundai knows whats riding on the line. Quality and value are the only two important attributes that the company is focused on.

I think we both can agree on that.

ray h · September 2004

I'm simply taking a wait and see attitude about accepting the optomistic presumption that Murphy will be caught napping with this brand new model Sonata being produced in a brand new factory on foreign shores by a local labor force supervised under Korean management style. This arrangement could end up being the most efficient initial startup in the history of serial industrial production. Or not. Check me if I'm wrong, but I believe both the initial American produced Accord and Camry offerings were of models already into their second year of production in the home market, weren't they? If that is correct, having the initial model changeover production bugs weaned out helped a good deal in the American produced cars meeting and maintaining their respective companies' QC standards. Of course, as later models were intro'd, both companies could manage the risk of bringing them online simultaneously in both markets because the manufacturing infrastructure and labor-management kinks had long since been worked out. I'll definitely credit the Koreans with unbounded, wide-eyed optimism, though. They might just pull if off!

delta4 · September 2004

"I'll definitely credit the Koreans with unbounded, wide-eyed optimism, though. They might just pull if off!" - ray h

Ray, you made an excellent point. I was thinking same. Btw, have you seen the specs for the power train for the '06 Sonata? From what I've read there will be a 2.4 V-Tech 4 and 3.3 V-Tech 6. Horsepower range somewhere in the 170's or a bit higher for the 4 and 230ish for the 6. The fact that they invested the requisite resources to developed these engines convinces me that they are maturing as a company and begining to emulate the Japanese.

alpha01 · September 2004

Thank you my friend. I enjoy your posts as well.

~alpha

ray h · September 2004

While I won't be in the market, I'll be VERY interested in the technical aspects of these two new engines*. Are the blocks based on current designs or are these bad boys totally new from the oil drain plug up? Am I to presume that "V-Tech" designates variable valve timing/duration? Also, all-aluminum?

*Can someone explain to me the auto manufacturers' preoccupation with engine covers? Do the things actually serve a purpose other than making routine servicing more difficult and time consuming, retaining heat, and hiding the intrinsic beauty of a well executed power plant? Aren't hoods sufficient? (You'll never guess where the one from my Sonata ended up...)

toyunki · September 2004

when totaled, one will get highest resale velu instead of whole sale value.

I boght 93 ford festive when I was 15 (even before got licence) for $3900.

but I totaled the car in 1996 and got $6400 from statefarm. I believe new car cost less than $8000 back then....

attgig · September 2004

not sure what the 2.4 spits out, but the 6 is supposed to give 245 hp. I hope they stick that engine in the tiburon....now THAT would be a car worth looking at.

pzev · September 2004

There's a Kia Optima interior picture floating around now.

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/epitherm-special1095404257_2.jp- g

And here are exterior pictures for those who haven't seen it yet.

http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/spyshots/H/hyundai/03-large/Hy- undai-Elantra-01.jpg

http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/spyshots/H/hyundai/03-large/Hy- undai-Elantra-02.jpg

http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/spyshots/H/hyundai/03-large/Hy- undai-Elantra-03.jpg

http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/spyshots/H/hyundai/03-large/Hy- undai-Elantra-04.jpg

http://img80.exs.cx/img80/824/hyundai_elantra-1.jpg

http://img80.exs.cx/img80/420/hyundai_elantra-2.jpg

You may have to copy and paste some of those. And obviously that's not the Elantra. I don't think there's been a legit picture of the Elantra yet. The Elantra is being released after all these other cars (Rio, Accent, Optima, XG, etc.) so it sort of makes sense it hasn't been photographed yet.

pzev · September 2004

Just to let you know, with the info you gave me I'm still only getting a value of $9125. That's with 30,000 miles, using a 1998 Accord (6 year old Accord), California zipcode, LX automatic, and this time I used private party value instead of dealer trade-in value.

I still stand behind what I said. There's just no way to sell an over 6 year old Accord for $11,500. There may be a few people crazy enough to go for it but it's highly unlikely most people can find someone to take it at that price.

There are easily ways to save money by getting a Sonata or other car compared to the Accord, resale value is only part of the equation. From the values I get what you lose in resale value on the Sonata you gain upfront on the money you save. Also some people may have 0% financing on the Sonata where it's less likely on an Accord. Insurance and gas mileage are factors. Also the numbers I compared were against the top-level trim Sonata, the V6 version. Get a 4-cyl version and save even more money.

Keep the Sonata for 5 years and take advantage of the 5 year warranty and I think you're no worse off than having a 5 year old Accord. The significant amount of money saved upfront on the Sonata balances it all out IMO.

iluvmysephia1 · September 2004

the new 2006 Hyundai Sonata. It just looks better than Accord or Camry. It also has that great Long-Haul Warranty. Oh, the Warranty does work. I've used it with my '01 Kia Sportage 4x4 and it does help you if you need it. Fortunately, my Sportage 4x4 has been very reliable and I haven't had to use the Long-Haul much at all.

Everybody read pzev's message just above mine and think about it for a second. It helps make my point...one I've been making at this and several other car sites for years-the HyunKia machine is the future in our automotive needs. Enjoy their shot to the top and get in on the fun, dudes.

alpha01 · September 2004

I have no problem getting in on any type of fun, but one thing you need to realize is that styling is purely subjective, and unless its at one extreme (the original Lexus SC) or another (the Aztec), it doesnt really matter much in a vehicles qualitative analysis.

PZEV- No mention of your allegation that I am anti-Hyundai? How come? Have you realized that I am not?

~alpha

iluvmysephia1 · September 2004

I'm only talking about styling when I discuss the superiority of the HyunKia product? You're overlooking the enormous quality strides Hyundai and Kia have made. Incidentally, people make this assertion that Kia has been "helped" so much by Hyundai. Humm...I already had my quality 1999 Kia Sephia that is a Kia product through and through when the "improvements" Hyundai allegedly gave Kia were implemented. I know from experience that the Kia product is solid and "sound as an Austin Powers pound". Even by Sept.'01 when I traded the Sephia in on my '01 Sportage 4x4 Hyundai wasn't doing squat to help Kia. Prove to me what they had done then to "help" Kia Motors of South Korea. Notta thing, man. Remember, Kia is operating on their own expense and earnings timetable and operating room. True, they are 51%-owned by Hyundai, but do they give a percentage of their profit to Hyundai? Can you tell me? You can't, because it's their bid-ness, gentlemen! True, Kia is using some platforms that are Hyundai's to build their magnificent driving machines on. That doesn't mean Hyundai "helped turn their entire program around", does it? Answer is, it doesn't. If anyone can prove to me how Hyundai has helped Kia specifically, lay it out real nice and slow for me here, OK? That being said, Hyundai is doing a fine job, too. The money you save on either a Hyundai or a Kia coupled with the Long-Haul makes a HyunKia purchase the most intelligent one that can be made at this time in human history. Enjoy your new Drive-By Truckers CD(their new CD is entitled 'The Dirty South'). Also, Brett Favre has promised a Super Bowl appearance for the Green Bay Packers this year. Re-hee-ha-he-ha-heaalllllyyyy!!!!!! =:)

pzev · September 2004

I was trying to drop the subject but if you want to keep it going then fine by me. I still can't figure out how you don't see a resemblance between those 3 cars and their taillights.

Sounds like you just wanted to avoid the question and use an example that can't be used against you. There's no copying the Volvo S40 since I doubt the tC designers went out of their way to copy it based on the timing of their debuts. Of course maybe they had access to what the Volvo S40 was going to look like and did it, who knows.

Do you admit that all companies copy each other? So why is the tC taillights looking like the Tiburon ok (both compete against each other like the Sonata and Accord) but the Sonata is a "pretender"? The taillights have a slightly different shape (just like the Sonata/Accord do) but you can't tell me it's pure coincidence that they look so similar.

Do you think the tC designers were living under a rock and just by coincidence made the taillights look similar to the Tiburon? Yes they are very similar whether you want to admit to it or not. You just need to explain to me how Hyundai copying is different from Toyota or someone else doing it. Otherwise why go out of your way to call it a "pretender" but somehow make it out that other companies aren't doing the same thing. This is why I think you're biased.

alpha01 · September 2004

"You just need to explain to me how Hyundai copying is different from Toyota or someone else doing it."

I definitely agree that many vehicles have styling cues from others. My point is that is makes no sense for Toyota to intentionally copy the styling of a vehicle that sells fairly poorly (the Tiburon), moving out the door only with incentives, especially when Toyota's intention from the get-go was to offer a non-negotiable price on the vehicle. And, I did NOT say it is OK for Toyota or Honda to copy styling cues, but not for Hyundai. For better or for worse, Hyundai is trying to capitalize on portraying an image of the well-respected, award winning Accord, and my only comment was that FOR ME, it says "pretender". In designing the vehicle, I dont feel that Toyota was aiming for its Scion buyers to feel the image of the Tiburon. That just doesnt make sense.

In any case, the "pretender" comment IS MY SINGLE COMPLAINT about the new Sonata, which looks incredibly promising at this stage. Why is it so outlandish for you to just accept the criticsm of one person?

Basically, for you, the fact that I like the Sonata based on the limited information available, would consider buying one, and strongly considered buying an Elantra a year and a half ago.... is completely discounted by the fact that I see a similarity between the new Sonata and the Accord, and resultingly have a negative reaction? And therefore, I am biased against Hyundai?

Thats not very sound logic....

~alpha

alpha01 · September 2004

When you say something like "It just looks better than Accord or Camry." that makes me think you're talking about styling.

~alpha

pzev · September 2004

"My point is that is makes no sense for Toyota to intentionally copy the styling of a vehicle that sells fairly poorly (the Tiburon), moving out the door only with incentives, especially when Toyota's intention from the get-go was to offer a non-negotiable price on the vehicle. And, I did NOT say it is OK for Toyota or Honda to copy styling cues, but not for Hyundai. For better or for worse, Hyundai is trying to capitalize on portraying an image of the well-respected, award winning Accord, and my only comment was that FOR ME, it says "pretender"."

And you wonder why I think you're biased? Reread what you just said. There's no way Toyota is copying the Tiburon (DIRECT competition for the tC) because of sales numbers, yet Hyundai is surely copying the Accord because of it being "well-respected" and "award winning"?

Give me a break. Lots of people make the comparison between the tC and the Tiburon. If Toyota was trying to avoid styling cues of a *gasp* Hyundai they failed miserably.

What you're saying is that it is pure coincidence that the tC taillights resemble the Tiburon. You also seem to be saying copying styling cues is purely based on sales numbers, and if a car is not meeting sales goals and is using incentives that there's no way another company would copy any styling cues from it.

This is why I think you're biased. You absolutely refuse to admit that the tC designers maybe, just maybe, looked at the Tiburon and decided to use similar taillights. This is the exact same thing as the Sonata/Accord taillights.

Just think about it for a second. The Tiburon and tC are direct competition. Toyota could have chosen any number of taillight designs but they chose what they did, which looks very similar to the Tiburon. Why would they by your logic avoid copying a car that is not a good seller but yet by pure coincidence the taillights look so similar? This makes no sense whatsoever.

This is why I was dropping the subject. You REFUSE to admit the possibility Toyota would copy the Tiburon.

norne · September 2004

dude you can go on with your rhetoric how you are not biased against Hyundai but your posts says otherwise.

iluvmysephia1 · September 2004

that we should quit bickering and someone find out something new or different about the '05 Hyundai Sonata for us to think about. OK? All automakers borrow and copy from each other and I could care less that they do that if I like the design.

alpha01, I will say this about you and Hyundai. I think you do have an interest in them, and that is good. Really, if you stop and think about it, who from the Hyundai camp really cares if we enthusisasts sit and bicker about whether automakers copy each other's body designs or not. They're gonna keep going full steam ahead. What do you guys think? Do carmakers read these website forums and take cues from what we like?

alpha01 · September 2004

Fine. Toyota definitely copied the taillights from the Tiburon and used them on them intentionally on the tC. Pontiac's G6 taillights are also remarkably similar in shape and position, so Pontiac also had the Tiburon in mind.
Kudos to Hyundai, for providing so many other automakers with fine designs to be sampled.

Pzev,
"You also seem to be saying copying styling cues is purely based on sales numbers, and if a car is not meeting sales goals and is using incentives that there's no way another company would copy any styling cues from it."

This is not at all what I said. What I did say is that it makes sense for manufacturers who are trying to bring their models upmarket to emulate the styling of vehicles that have typically set the class standard. Reference Lexus and the Mercedes facade in the early 1990s.

I still disagree that Im biased. If I was, I wouldnt be interested in this next Sonata, nor would I have very seriously considered an Elantra.

iluvmysephia- Yes, the car mfgs read these boards, even if rather stealthily.... some, like Subuaru, even run forums...

~alpha

iluvmysephia1 · September 2004

they did, being that it would be a good way to see how the consumer is feeling about their product. All the more cooler, then.

pallavi · September 2004

Hi all

We are trying to buy a 2005 sonata lx model with package 5 and getting it for $19000 (without tax/license). Please let me know if you have bought the car and if this is a good deal. Your help is much appreciated.

Regards
Pallavi

delta4 · September 2004

alpha01 I don't believe you are biased against Hyundai. Though the comparisons you drew between the design styling cues of the new 2006 Sonata mimicking the designs of either Toyota or Hyundai is not too far off the mark, the hints of these two designs in the sheet metal are not as dominant. However this is not a bad thing.

The overall styling and design theme of the new Sonata is more 'euro'in flavor and hence gives the car a much higher-end luxo-look. The overall feedback amongst the many forum posts throughout that I have surveyed thus far indicates the '06 Sonata has received an abundance of positive feedback and high quality expectations. Since the car is not scheduled for release in North America until March of '05 I would anticipate that there will be much debate about the design until it hits dealer showrooms and the ultimate verdict is decided by the you and me, the consumer!

alpha01 · September 2004

excellent post. agreed.

happy motoring,

~alpha

Kirstie_H · September 2004

'Nuff said on that particular topic. If you're interested in engaging in circular arguments with no possibility of reaching a "right" conclusion, EVER, please visit the discussion titled I don't like SUVs, why do you?

iluvmysephia1 · September 2004

fine on this topic now. I think that it's the same old deal, where some of us get rather emotional about certain brands and poke away at others. It remains a useful forum, though, if we all participate and contribute some new and enlightening things about the '05-'06 Hyundai Sonata.

To reiterate, the '06 Hyundai Sonata, like the one seen in the pictures a few posts back in this thread, won't be out in the States until March '05, correct? Just so we're all straight on that. Someone correct me on that if I'm wrong, OK?

delta4 · September 2004

iluvmysephia - According to reports Hyundai is presently building about 3-4 '06 Sonata per day at the new Hyundai plant located in Montgomery, Alabama. This is to check the quality of the line and assembly of each vehicle to insure quality checks at each level of assembly.

Additionally, this is to coordinate the line so that each worker understands the process as it progresses. The estimated date of sale has yet to be announced. However sale of the '06 Sonata have been slated to begin in or at the end of March '05.

Price range for the 4 cyl@160 b hp is rumored to be in the 17k range and the 6 will be in the low/mid 20s. However the 6 cyl model will be offered first and the 4 will follow. The 6 is reported rated at either 230-240 b hp and torque is expected to be in the same range or slightly better. Both engines are V-Techs. Both engines are Hyundai sourced and will also sell to Daimler-Chrysler and Mitsubishi to power their upcoming small car offerings, i.e. neon and possibly Sebring. Further details to follow as soon as I have more.

alpha01 · September 2004

There is going to be a 230 horse 3.3L V6 in the Neon? WILD!!!

Those power figures are well-chosen- the Camry's engines are a 2.4L 160hp 163 ft. lb 4, along with the 225hp/240 lb. ft. 3.3L V6 (and the soon to be discontinued 3.0L)...

Hyundai KNOWS the game this time around.

Any guesses on MPG? The Camry 2.4L 5A is 24/34 and the 3.3L V6 5A is 21/29.

~alpha

delta4 · September 2004

alpha01 - No V6 for the Neon Alpha. Meant 4cyl vtec for the Neon and possibly Sebring. Hyundai will not be offering their 6 V-Tech. The horses on the V-Tech 4 is said to be on par with Toyota. However the torque is said to be even higher, somewhere @165-166. Which means that this 2.4 should have more grunt than similarly equipped Camry.

According to sources inside or is it outside Hyundai(?) the 3.3 V-Tech 6 is rumored to be 230-245 hp and the torque to be approximately 240(?) if true this should mean that this powerplant would out-run both Camry and Accord. Additionally, here are some of the features to be offered for the top end US Spec Sonata will be equipped with rain-sensing windshield wipers, rear back-up radar, powered rear sun-shade visor, air-filtration purification system, tilt, telescopic steering, delayed power accessory for radio power windows. Also will allow driver to power windows and doors from the driver's door. 4-channel ABS - 4 wheel disc. (more to come)

Just some of the really state-of-the art features to come on '06 Sonata.

alpha01 · September 2004

But who is going to buy the unimpressive XG (as if anyone is buying it now?)

~alpha

bumpy · September 2004

"Both engines are V-Techs. Both engines are Hyundai sourced and will also sell to Daimler-Chrysler and Mitsubishi to power their upcoming small car offerings, i.e. neon and possibly Sebring. Further details to follow as soon as I have more."

Mitsubishi and DCX are partners with Hyundai in GEMA (Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance), so all three "own" the GEMA 4-cylinder lineup and will produce them in various plants. Sharing the I4 means you will be able to take the motor from a next-gen SRT-4 and make a turbo Sonata, or an insanely overpowered Kia Rio

Everything I've read indicates that GEMA is a 4-banger project and doesn't involve the new Hyundai V6. Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Hyundai V6 show up in some Mitsus and Dodges since the current Mitsu V6 is getting long in the tooth and Mitsu doesn't have the resources to develop a new one anytime soon.

One more thing: Hyundai is using VVT, not VTEC. See http://www.streetracersonline.com/articles/camshafts/3.php for the difference.

bumpy · September 2004

"But who is going to buy the unimpressive XG (as if anyone is buying it now?)"

That's why the new, larger XG380 is due in about a year.

delta4 · September 2004

Hello bumpy - You're indeed correct. The new powerplants are indeed VVTs. I want to correct a few things as well the '06 Sonata will probably go on sale in the US in May of '06 and not March. Full production is expected to begin in March.

Also here is an article of interest that talks about Hyundai's strategy behind rolling out the new '06 Sonata. http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_36/b3898072.htm

alpha01 · September 2004

that Hyundai is really going to try to push the envelope with this vehicle, as well they should. With all the state of the art equipment available, I dont think it would be at all surprising to see the next Sonata top $26,000 on the sticker, when fully loaded.

And thats great news about the XG380! It will probably grow larger, correct, since the Sonata will. The fuller size sedan segment heats up- the new Ford Five Hundred, the new Toyota Avalon, the new XG380, etc.

~alpha

delta4 · September 2004

alpha01 - The target for the XG380 is the Avalon, and possibly the TL and ES300 As these are entry level luxury. XG will definitely be a major step up for Hyundai not only in f&f (fit and finish) but also in a higher level of refinement, ergonomics, options and hi-tech gear.

As far as the new Ford Five Hundred is concerned Ford recently admitted that this new model comes to play with an underpowered powerplant (203 bhp) at most, compare that to what the current Sonata estimated @230-240 bhp can do, as well as the new XG est somewhere at 260ish(?) and you have a dog who can't begin to hunt much less compete on Hyundai's level. What? Did I just write that? Damn! Hyundai has really arrived!!!

delta4 · September 2004

News on some specifics on the powertrains for the '06 Sonata:
2.4 VVT 4cyl rated at 165 bhp torque 161 lb.
3.3 VVT 6cyl rated at 230 bhp, torque at 224 lb. More to follow as soon as it is available.

alpha01 · September 2004

Im interested to know at which RPM points we're talking, though.

Since Hyundai has made it know that its benchmarking the Camry:
Camry 2.4L 160hp @ 5700RPM 163 lb. ft. @4000 RPM
EPA rated 5A 24/34

Camry 3.3L 225hp @ 5600 RPM 240 lb. ft. @3600 RPM.
EPA rated 5A 21/29

And obviously the Sonata blows away the other Camry 3.0 V6, which Toyota is rumored to be phasing out with the start of production of the next Avalon in Jan 2006 (as the Camry is the only vehicle still using this engine).

~alpha

backy · September 2004

I would be VERY surprised to see the '06 Sonata top $26k on the sticker. That is what a loaded Accord V6 goes for. It's what a XG and Amanti go for. I don't think Hyundai is to the point where they can compete with Honda on an equal-price playing field. Perhaps after new cars like the '06 Sonata and next-gen XG and Elantra are out and have been proven to equal or surpass their Japanese competition, but not until then. And buyer perception will lag reality for awhile.

BTW, isn't it about time to change the title of this discussion to 2006 Hyundai Sonata, since it's clear the 2005 model is a carryover?

alpha01 · September 2004

The Accord doesnt have the following features, which have been stated here as available on the next Sonata (allegedly along with other high-tech items that have not yet been listed) :

-Rain Sensing Wipers
-Rear Back-Up Radar
-Power Rear Sunshade

Features such as that are typically offered only in the near-lux/entry lux class, and really, if Hyundai prices a top Sonata model with every option at $26,500, yes, that would be Accord EX V6 territory, but including features such as the above, Hyundai would retain its content/features for the dollar advantage over the Accord, since none of that is available on the Accord EX. (Heck, fog lights arent even standard). Im very interested to see if Hyundai offers a stability control system on the next Sonata, thats going to be a big selling point for my next vehicle, especially if that vehicle is not AWD. That would be just another advantage over the Accord.

PS- Accord EX V6 non-nav stickers at $27,215 incl. destination. EX V6 NAV stickers at $29,215 incl. dest.

~alpha

bumpy · September 2004

The specs for the Korean NF Sonata (they get a 2.0 I4 as the base engine) list peak hp/torque at 6000/4500 rpm for the 2.0 and 5700/4000 for the 2.4. On the other hand, a German writeup suggests peak torque for the 2.4 is at 4250, and at 3500 for the 3.3 V6.

delta4 · September 2004

bumpy - the bhp numbers that I listed for the 2.4 and 3.3 are what was listed unofficially. Owing to the fact final stateside production power plant numbers have not yet been determined any numbers posted here or else where are only a close approximation of the final. All in all these power plants appear to be impressive. Can hardly wait for the first set of driving impressions.

ray h · September 2004

<snicker> I wonder how much Hyundai America will later revise the hp and torque specs downward after the first few months as they did with the current engines four years ago... (Children, can you say: "Advertised Horsepower Fiasco"?)

bumpy · September 2004

Hyundai's probably underrating the new engines because of 1) being bit in the butt on the hp ratings a few years ago, and 2) they set a goal of averaging 300,000 miles between overhauls for the GEMA engines, so they're undertuned a bit to help with that.

backy · September 2004

Yes, but you are forgetting a few "features" the Accord has over the Sonata:

* Higher resale value
* Higher fuel economy (remains to be seen if that's true with the new Sonata powertrains)
* Best-in-class reputation for driving performance
* Best-in-class reputation for quality

It's features like those that lead me to think that the Sonata will have to signficantly undercut the price of the Accord, as it does today, to make sales inroads until the new Sonata's reputation is established. If Hyundai tries to price it about the same as the Accord, watch for huge rebates and discounts soon after introduction.

ray h · September 2004

Add to that list a better engineered and more refined automatic transaxle since the 2003 Accords arrived.

delta4 · September 2004

*Higher resale value
* Higher fuel economy (remains to be seen if that's true with the new Sonata powertrains)
* Best-in-class reputation for driving performance
* Best-in-class reputation for quality - backy

Good points all the way around backy. What if Hyundai succeeds on 3 of 4 (Best-in-class reputation for driving performance?-not sure if they're there yet). As I've written on this forum before Hyundai now has an opportunity to take the bulls by the proverbial horns and challenge the leaders (Honda & Toyota).

No doubt the convincing proof-in-the-pudding will be measured in overall market share?(sales) in the upcoming 2nd thru 4th QTR of '05. As I've written before the jury is still out until then we can all travel down the road of speculation.

alpha01 · September 2004

"Best-In-Class reputation for quality" is highly debateable with the newest generation. I dont see it as being any higher than some of the other vehicles in the class. Obviously its not a sweeping indication, but the rotor issue was so bad on my buddy's 03 LX that Honda bought his car back from him.

ray_h, Not for anything, we have no idea what the new Sonata's powertrain will offer in terms of NVH, refinement, etc, so I'm not so sure how you can assert that the Accords is definitely better.

My only point is that I feel this could be the vehicle that allows Hyundai to break out of its value-leader reputation. If the new Sonata performs as well on the road as it appears that it should, by offering more features for a slightly lower, or even equal price to the Accord, Hyundai could do just that.

And Hyundai will always have its excellent warranty to sell as well. The Honda warranty is absurd.

~alpha

backy · September 2004

My only point is that I feel this could be the vehicle that allows Hyundai to break out of its value-leader reputation.

I completely agree. I just think it will take some time before the buying public puts Hyundai on an equal footing with Honda on price. After so many years of Hyundai's positioning itself as the value leader, that perception won't change overnight. Look at the Elantra: the design introduced four years ago trounced the Civic LX in C/D's comparo, ran a close second in Edmunds.com's comparo to the Civic EX that cost thousands more, and has more features for the money than its Honda competition. Yet it still sells only with big rebates and discounts, for thousands less than the Civic.

I think Hyundai has to earn price pairity with Honda. The new Sonata is a nice car on paper and in photos, but hasn't proven anything yet against entrenched competition.

ray h · September 2004

"ray_h, Not for anything, we have no idea what the new Sonata's powertrain will offer in terms of NVH, refinement, etc, so I'm not so sure how you can assert that the Accords is definitely better."

"Better" was a relative term on two counts: far better than the current Hyundai 4sp automatic (which isn't saying much from what an AAMCO tech I know told me who's worked extensively on Hyundai's current trannies - the chain does have -some- good people and he's one of 'em) and much better than the previous Honda 4sp automatic. If you have hard evidence the new Sonatas are earmarked for a new transmission, share it with us. Otherwise even mention of the
-possibility- of such is just further pure Kentucky-windage speculation. (a state noted for its extensive husbandry in thoroughbred horses, which by extension includes...)

Hyundai Sonata 2006-2007

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