Hyundai Sonata 2006-2007

lexi4lifelexi4life Member Posts: 181
Any news about the new 2005 hyundai sonata? I just heard it'd get an all new 3.8 liter V6 engine probably good for 220-230 hp. Hyundai would think about introducing it in August.
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Comments

  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    I think it's suppose to be a 3.3 and not a 3.8, the 3.8 is suppose to be on the XG I think. The HP sounds right and the torque might be higher than the HP.
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    I've beek poking around a bit regarding this car, and the best info I have indicates that the US market will continue to get the current Sonata for '05, and the new one will debut (from the new Alabama plant) as an early '06 in 3/05. I could be wrong about that, though.

    -Andrew L
  • lexi4lifelexi4life Member Posts: 181
    Am I wrong or the exterior looks like an Audi A6?
    So anyway, can someone tell without being wrong when this car will hit the showrooms?
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    Those first 5 pictures aren't of the Sonata, it's supposedly the new XG.

    lexi4life, I think a_l_hubcaps is correct, a few articles have stated that March is when the Sonata will begin production in Alabama. Also one said that V6 versions will initially come from Korea where as the 4-cyl versions will come from Alabama. The Sonata is suppose to be revealed this month in Korea, but if not it will definetly be at the Paris show in September. When production will begin in Korea I'm not sure.

    Trial production at Alabama has already begun.

    http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/specialreports/hyundai/storyV- 5HPLANTMAIN01W.htm

    And here is an article with some interesting tidbits.

    http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/NEWSV5/storyV5HINNOVATION01W.- htm

    "Vehicle engines will be built on site and will meet the vehicle in general assembly, where workers on the production line will add parts, such as tires or electrical components, to each vehicle."

    Somehow I thought the 4-cyl engines will come from Michigan where Chrysler will get their's from but I guess not.

    "As part of the painting process, an electrically charged coating will be applied to each car to prevent corrosion. To eliminate air pockets and ensure 100 percent coverage, the shop will use a state-of-the-art process in which each car will be turned 360 degrees as the coating is applied."

    And here is an old article.

    http://www.detnews.com/2004/specialreport/0402/22/a15-70494.htm

    "Parts suppliers will build whole sections of the vehicles off site, reducing in-house workloads and labor costs."

    The major stuff will be done on-site but some stuff as stated will be done by parts suppliers off-site.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Whatever car that is (Sonata or XG), it looks more to me like an Accord (from the rear, especially) than anything else.

    ~alpha
  • insomnia610insomnia610 Member Posts: 3
    Check this out (Hyundai Advertisement)
    http://sonata.hyundai-motor.com/

    interior/exterior
    http://auto.joins.com/pdst_board/content.asp?tb_name=image_pdst&a- mp;a- mp;a- mp;board_idx=3459
    http://auto.joins.com/pdst_board/content.asp?board_idx=3460&p- - - age=&tb_name=image_pdst
    http://auto.joins.com/pdst_board/content.asp?board_idx=3456&p- - - age=1&tb_name=image_pdst
    http://auto.joins.com/pdst_board/content.asp?board_idx=3458&p- age=&tb_name=image_pdst
    sources: www.joins.com (automobile section)

    2.0 Liter Engine with VVT (aluminum head/block)Korea only
    2.4 Liter Engine with VVT (aluminum head/block)
    Korea/Worldwide
    3.3 Liter Engine with VVT (aluminum head/block)
    Korea/Worldwide

    People in Korea tend to drive cars with small engines because of high gasoline price.
    About 4.50 per gallon. 70% gasoline tax is included...

    I saw some Sonata advertisements on yahoo korea and found out that the new sonata has 165 hp. (2.4L)The NF Sonata will be released on Sept. 1, 2004 in Korea. (Affordable A6)=(All-New Sonata)
  • insomnia610insomnia610 Member Posts: 3
    165 HP/ 23kg.m torque (2.4 Ceta engine)
    5 speed automatic transmission with shiftronic
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    2.0 MT = 1443 kg or 3181 pounds

    2.0 AT = 1450 kg or 3196 pounds

    2.4 AT = 1496 kg or 3298 pounds

    And we aren't even talking about the 3.3 V6 version yet. Hopefully that 2.4 version has a sunroof and a ton of standard equipment.

    This is basically on par with a TSX though so I have to think the 2.4 has power seats, a sunroof, stability control, 17" wheels, etc. to make it weigh so much.

    Anybody know the standard equipment on the 2.4 version? Also anyone know what the turning circle is?
  • cookie55cookie55 Member Posts: 15
    BusinessWeek {sept 6) has a 2 page article with rear qtr. photo of the new Sonata. Will be sold in U.S. in spring of 2005.
  • lovetosavegaslovetosavegas Member Posts: 73
    There is some more info for those, who can read in Russian :)

    http://www.autonews.ru/news/html/newsline/index.shtml?/2004/08/30- /53462
  • sjoosjoo Member Posts: 7
    http://www.autotimes.co.kr/article_view.php?id=7588

    They just started selling the new model in korea.
    However,New Sonata will hit showroom on May 2005 in U.S.A.
    It will be built in alabama.
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    http://www.auto-asia.com/viewcontent.asp?pk=9604

    "Prices in Korea range from 16.25-23.3 million won (USD14,100-20,200), expected to be about 10 percent more than the anticipated sticker in the US."

    Could someone familiar with current Korean Sonata prices figure this out for us? I don't know what the equipment is for the 2.4 auto version (which I guess is USD 20,200) but I would guess it has a sunroof, stability control, leather, 17" alloys, etc. The US version will probably have 16" steel wheels, cloth, no sunroof, no stability control, etc. so that would trim the prices, maybe down to $18,000 USD? (I have no idea) Then it says to expect prices in US to be 10% lower so that would put the price about where the current one is.

    Current base model with automatic runs $16,800 ($15,300 invoice). Also I read somewhere that all trims in Korea have ABS and side curtains standard (can someone confirm this?). Since the current one here doesn't have ABS standard (and hopefully it will be standard on the new one) then that would account for any minor price increase.

    Bottomline, how much more is the new Sonata in Korea running compared to the old one? Factoring in any new standard equipment compared to the old one, is there any price increase?
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    really nice. Do you know if the American Sonata will look like that? Hyundai is spot on with this new body design. If this car can deliver in the gas mileage department(and there's no reason it won't be able to)Hyundai will sell tons and tons and...well...we are talking cars here, aren't we? Thousands of tons. One MILLION ton of them! Millions upon millions of tons of them! Whoo-hoo! Get your ships ready to ship, Hyundai! Take a look at the side view and tell me if that doesn't look sharp. This is the best Sonata body design I've ever seen.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • ray hray h Member Posts: 120
    Well, Hyundai's got brass if nothing else! If the new model has just begun selling in the land of the Yin and Yang, and the Alabammy-made models will go on sale in the U.S. in May, '05, I hope Hyundai's not biting off more than they can chew regarding QC and American labor-Korean management issues. All this and a new engine lineup, too? At least the Japanese delay U.S. intros a year while they sort out new model quirks in the home market. Even at that the 2003 Accords (especially V6s) were problematic for a while.
  • rk2469rk2469 Member Posts: 30
    So, if Japanese delays 1 year, we should all delay a year. So, if you have a new job, do you tell your employers that you like to take 1 year before actually joining the company so you can test the company out? Hyundai usually had 6 month delay launch since 1999. There hasn't been quality problem due to quick release decision. Your concern is unwarranted due to the fact that Hyundai has done this before very recently.
  • ray hray h Member Posts: 120
    I'd rather err on the side of caution, not naivete. Time will ultimately determine the wisdom of Hyundai's gamble. (Hint, Hyundai hasn't exactly had a sterling QC reputation until the very recent past. The make is still at the bottom of the food chain in resale value.) Your prose suggests English is a second language. Are you a Korean national who's currently or previously employed by Hyundai in North America? Have you previously posted on Hyundai owner forums under the "handle", "KIHO"?
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    to the point of quality itself not even being an issue with buying a new Hyundai. I drive a Kia, which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Hyundai, and I can't believe how good of a rig my '01 Sportage 4x4 is. No kidding. I don't own Kia stock, I'm not Korean nor do I sell Kia vehicles for a living. I will probably stay loyal to Kia and buy a new Kia for my next rig but if I were to stray a new Hyundai Tiburon is probably what I would buy.

    As to the "gamble" Hyundai is taking at Huntsville..it's really not. Hyundai aims to be a top 5 automaker worldwide by 2010. To do that you've got to please American consumers. To please American consumers you've got to deliver a product to them that they want at a good price. Building in America gives them the American "connection" if you will. Americans get jobs out of the deal and Hyundai gets a huge plant right in America with a great pipeline of parts shipping availability and location. With the Long-Haul Warranty, which, unless you're as stupid as a...a...ummm...rock, was a brilliant move by Hyundai, consumers are not taking a gamble by buying a new Hyundai at all. Absolutely brilliant. Oh, and in case you're wondering, my Long-Haul Warranty works with my Kia. Actually I'm on my 2nd Kia now(my first one was not covered by the Long-Haul though)and I have always had whatever problem or concern I had taken care of professionally and courteously by my dealer.

    BTW-have you seen the 2005 Hyundai Sonata pictures yet? Whoa..this car is beautiful. A home run for Hyundai right off the proverbial bat, dudes and dudettes. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some new Drive-By Truckers to listen to. Speaking of the Alabama connection!

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I dont think this car is beautiful, aggressive from the front but DEFINITELY Accord derivative in the rear. HOWEVER... its attractive overall, and if materials quality is as high as it seems to be and the engines are truly class competitve in power, refinement, and efficiency... this WILL be the vehicle that COMPLETELY changes the game for Hyundai. There are obstacles, still, though...

    ~alpha
  • rk2469rk2469 Member Posts: 30
    I guess you would wait out 1 year before you join a new company that just hired you. You are the one of those people who stops one’s car before driving over bridges, slowing down all the cars behind you in order to make sure the bridge is safe to cross over. Do you have a fear of dying? Did you run out of your daily self-injecting tranquilizer? Are you a naivete French? You are probably a follower. It is easy to follow, even if you are a naivete Honda follower.

    I never posted anything until I read your naivete logic about how Hyundai should delay 1 year to release their car because Honda does it. If company A does something, company B should do the same? Hyundai does not rely on Honda to make its decisions. Maybe, you do.

    Obviously, Hyundai is ready to release their car and they are confident about their quality management.

    RayHo, a bathhouse somewhere in San Francisco is calling for you to comeback; they miss your daily visits.

    palpeur idiot de Honda.
  • nissan240sxnissan240sx Member Posts: 37
    I agree with rk2469. I hope ray h think before he writes because his remark, "Your prose suggests English is a second language. Are you a Korean national who's currently or previously employed by Hyundai in North America? Have you previously posted on Hyundai owner forums under the "handle", "KIHO"?" is simply disgusting.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Its great that we're all adults, isnt it?

    Moving on... the new Sonata...

    ~alpha
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    I like the styling. Some features do look copied and I'm getting a little tired of Hyundai doing that -- they're growing up, and I'll only be happy with this design if it represents the future of Hyundai's overall lineup.

    On second thought... the headlights and taillights go well together; similar shape. And it's not a shape that instantly brings another car to mind; the color of the taillights looks Accordy, but the shape looks good. And the rear end (top of the rear fenders next to the trunk) along with the front bumper pads connect the Sonata to the current Elantra sedan. That's good.

    I imagine it'll be a "value" car in its class, as Hyundai hasn't quite caught up on its powertrains yet and will probably be skimping on some materials to get that value. (Like the weak sheet metal, paint, and window glass on the Elantra.) But overall it looks like a serious car. I wish it luck.
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    IMO any first year car is a gamble, no matter if it's been released in another market for a year or not. Hyundai has so many new products coming out that they don't have time to waste. Most companies like to spread out their new cars anyway to keep things fresh. A new car this month, another new car a few months from now, another one a few months after that, etc.

    The new XG is suppose to be shown in January, and I would guess released before the end of that year. The Sonata is so close in size to the current XG that the XG is pretty much outdated and almost pointless once the Sonata hits the lots. You also have the new Accent around the corner, and supposedly a new minivan, Santa Fe, and Elantra. There's even suppose to be a Sonata coupe at some point, but that remains to be seen.

    Didn't Nissan just recently send 200 engineers to their Mississippi plant that hasn't been opened very long? They were sent because of quality issues. When you have pretty much an all-new car like the Sonata combined with a new factory IMO it's a gamble, no matter if it's a Toyota or Hyundai. That's why I don't buy first year cars, but add in the fact it's a new factory makes it more of a gamble.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    and I'll add to it that , once again, Hyundai and Kia seem to have an edge in the bodystyling department. Try as Honda and Acura and Toyota and Lexus and Nissan and Infiniti might and try as they may they just can't seem to get 'er done in the body styling department. Hyundai has smacked it cleanly out of the ballpark with this new Sonata design.

    Hyundai is rocking along nicely as far as quality goes. If I wanted a car in this class I would take a hard look at this 2006 Hyundai Sonata and the current Kia Amanti.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • ray hray h Member Posts: 120
    I wish Hyundai every success. I am frankly disappointed with Hyundai's flagrant plagiarism of the soon to be three year old Accord's design, but that's a personal opinion. Others are always accorded (pun intended) the right to disagree. I just don't happen to believe that an assumption the new Sonatas will perfect out of the starting gate is a given. As I stated, time will tell, not belligerent, personal comments from a Korean Hyundai employee trolling owner forums plugging the company or sneeringly stirring the pot when someone dissents from his personal interpretation of the party line. By the way, rk2469, KIHO, or whatever other handles you're currently posting under on various Hyundai owner forums, how is your employment simile at all relevant to the discussion? Oh, and, what's with the "San Francisco bath house" reference? Another obscure simile whose relevance is known only to you?
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    http://file1.bobaedream.co.kr/national/national1094344215.jpg

    http://file1.bobaedream.co.kr/national/national1094344290_2.jpg

    I'm not a big fan of the design of the interior, but it's better than some others. One thing I don't like is I believe every car either comes with the metal-look or the fake wood, there's no plain versions I think. The fake wood strip that runs across is fine, and maybe around the shifter, but the added fake wood in the center gets out of hand. I would prefer plain.

    I think this car will do fine, and is a step up for Hyundai, but I don't think it's going to sell like hotcakes. I think plenty of people will still go with the Accord or Camry. Hyundai has to be careful with the pricing. They need to build quality cars and find a way to get people to buy them. Then over time people won't feel the need to pay more for an Accord or Camry. Pricing is key for this car.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    and, because it's a Hyundai, it will be priced very competitively. With the Long-Haul buying an Accord or Camry is the bigger risk. The risk being that you'll run the risk of not being able to find your car in a crowded movie theater parking lot when the latest Austin Powers or the next real Jim Carrey comedy comes out, eh? Buying an Accord or Camry is like...is like....ummm...selling out and buying a brainless Metallica CD when you could have bought the newest Drive-By Truckers CD 'The Dirty South'. That would require stretching out a bit...using your brain and benefiting from it, too. Excuse me while I wonder why so many people think Jimi Hendrix is the guitar player's guitar player. I never quite got that idea. Splain it to me, K? There's this guy named Rod Price who played for this British blues-rock band called Foghat who cleanly blows Hendrix away-even on Jimi's best day playing, ever. Just the plain truth, dudes.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I think itd make for better conversation if you talked about the car more, and used poorly constructed analogies less. Nobody buys a Hyundai to be different, or cool, give us a break.

    ~alpha
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    Nobody buys a Hyundai to be different, or cool, give us a break.

    So why do people keep complaining about the styling of the taillights? The fact that people are buying the Accord in droves with the mediocre at best taillight design shows potential Sonata buyers won't care one bit what the taillights look like. If they're not trying to be different or cool, then looking like an Accord won't bother them.
  • delta4delta4 Member Posts: 138
    I agree with pzev's comments - "The fact that people are buying the Accord in droves with the mediocre at best taillight design shows potential Sonata buyers won't care one bit what the taillights look like. If they're not trying to be different or cool, then looking like an Accord won't bother them."

    The re-design of the 2005 Sonata to mimic a higher end more sophisticated euro-sedan is no accident. This will appeal to the vast majority of buyers in this segment who are looking for quality and value without having to pay a premium. It is also interesting to note that this vehicle will be chalked full of techno-state-of-the-art toys. If successful, the new Sonata should signal the beginning of Hyundai's ascension into the ranks of the majors, visa-vie Honda and Toyota. Achieving this milestone (assuming they are successful) will mean that Hyundais will eventually lose their reputation as 'cheap' transportation dependent on their warranty and low prices alone.

    I believe that if Hyundai positions the Sonata as the "ultimate" alternative to Honda and Toyota and can deliver on it's promise of consistent high quality, combined with it's reputation for great value the Sonata will be a major league hit with consumers in North America.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    pzev-

    My point was that people are not going to turn to Hyundai for something different. Its fine not to be different, and I think the new Sonata will be an excellent, first-rate vehicle. BUT the taillight issue is a bit flagrant. Not being different from the normal, bland-ish family sedan styling is fine. But having taillamps that barely differ from the Accord's make me think "pretender".

    ~alpha
  • nornenorne Member Posts: 136
    I think alpha01's biggest gripe is he doesn't like Hyundai vehicles in general and thus nothing but complaint after complaint.

    The first time I saw the new accord, the front reminded me of the last mercury cougar. When toyota introduce the new camary the front grill reminded me of the ford tauraus.
  • delta4delta4 Member Posts: 138
    "My point was that people are not going to turn to Hyundai for something different...... BUT the taillight issue is a bit flagrant." - alpha01

    Your point about Hyundai not being "something different" with the exception of their "flagrant" taillight is very spurious. Is Toyota "different"? or Honda for that matter? If you look closely it would seem both of these manufacturers borrow design ideas from existing euro-domestic models.

    The main stream ubiquitous designs are what the consumer demands hence the high sales volume that are attributed to both Camry and Accord. All Hyundai has to do is prove to the consumer that their quality is consistent and their value unparalleled when compared to the two leading Japanese imports.
  • ray hray h Member Posts: 120
    "All Hyundai has to do is prove to the consumer that their quality is consistent and their value unparalleled when compared to the two leading Japanese imports."

    What a terrifically simple plan - I wish I'd thought of that! (and, "all" we need for universal world peace is for everyone to quit fighting...) So far, American manufacturers have been unable to crack Japanese quality standards, nor have German manufacturers been able to sustain their quality tradition momentum in the recent past. (Check out Mercedes, Audi, VW, and BMW owner forums here on Edmunds for some eye-opening posts.) French and Italian? Phfff! There's a reason none of the former and very few of the latter are sold in the U.S. any longer. If Hyundai indeed has aspirations to equal or surpass Accord and Camry overall quality excellence* and re-invent their marketing mission accordingly (pun intended), they have their work cut out for them. I don't foresee the Japanese giving up their deserved, hard-earned status without a fight. Are Accords and Camrys perfect? No. But they're more often than not darned good.

    *The J.D. Powers "initial qualtiy" award the Sonata picked up recently is nice, but quality has to go beyond this superficial "how nicely the car was washed, gassed, prepped, exposed screws snugged down, and various systems explained to new owners at drive-off" award. When Hyundai gets awards for long term reliability, then the company will have something meaningful to brag about. As far as ownership is concerned, the "award" that really counts is resale/trade-in value unless the owner intends from the start to drive it out of his new car. That was my plan in deciding on purchasing my 2003 Sonata - drive it for a decade and either junk it or sell it depending on whether it's still drivable. But, most people never intend to keep a new car that long and many Hyundai lessees have been unpleasantly surprised at the end of their leases with residual value penalties assessed - even though the particular car might still be in tip-top condition with low miles.
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    I may have messed up these numbers so if anyone sees a problem feel free to correct me.

    1999 Hyundai Sonata GLS 6-cyl (retail: $17,000)

    1999 Honda Accord LX 4-cyl (retail: $18,400)

    Trade-In Value to a Dealer

    Sonata- $5,455

    Accord- $7,250

    So really, what's the big deal with the Accord. If someone trades a car in within 3 years then getting a Hyundai just makes no sense. But keep the car a reasonable amount of time then you're not losing much. Not to mention you save huge amounts of money up front on a Sonata. Fitzmall has no-haggle pricing on a base Sonata with automatic for $14,000 (destination charge included). What you lose on resale value you gain upfront when you buy the car. People who buy new cars and trade in 3 years are taking huge hits anyway so they shouldn't exactly feel better that their car has great resale value.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    You're right. It must be that I dont like Hyundais. Even though these are my exact words from post #24.

    "(The Sonata) its attractive overall, and if materials quality is as high as it seems to be and the engines are truly class competitve in power, refinement, and efficiency... this WILL be the vehicle that COMPLETELY changes the game for Hyundai."

    And the Accord looks like the Cougar? Um... what?
    Camry grille looks like a Taurus? The Taurus has an oval grille with a center mount logo, the Camry neither. You see interesting things.

    Regardless of anyones feelings, the Sonata looks like an Accord from the rear, for better or worse. That said, it looks to be an excellent car. I only wonder if the resemblence to the Accord is going to be a boone for, or inhibit the vehicle's success.

    ~alpha
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    I'm biased against Honda, I admit it. Why don't you go ahead and admit you're biased against Hyundai. I never once heard you say the tC was a "pretender". All you and everyone ever did was praise it. Then here comes the Sonata and everyone comes out of the woodwork calling Hyundai copy-cats and pretenders.

    I'd like you to explain to me how the tC is let off the hook but the Sonata is a "pretender". Do you think the tC designers were living under a rock and had no clue what the Tiburon taillights looked like? Do you somehow find it coincidence that they look so similar? They compete against each other just like the Sonata/Accord, but Toyota is let off the hook while Hyundai is once again copying designs?

    I think you even mentioned you were interested in buying a tC at some point. Why do you think "pretender" when looking at the Sonata taillights but don't think "pretender" on the tC?
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    we have it in our workplaces, highways, stores(remember the push that trampled the lady at a Florida store a coupla years ago?)and we have it in automobile sales. Hyundai designers have struck a nice note with me on this new 2005 Sonata design. Yep, they all do it, copy each other's designs. Yet, still, I like how Hyundai and Kia designers design cars. Not just the bodies, but the mechanics as well.

    My Sportage's seats are an example. From dog slobber to spilled soda, my Sportage's seats take a beating. Yet they clean up so well with just some gentle scrubbing. I take everything into consideration when I look at cars. My Sportage has yet to even burn out a single lightbulb yet. And I'm at 82,200 miles on the thing. Yikes. If I had bought a Honda CRV don't you think I would've replaced at least four light bulbs by now? I have not needed a single lick of brake work yet on my Sportage, nor have I needed a single tire replaced! The original Hankook (yes, they're manufactured in South Korea) tires for my Sportage look like they'll make it through another Missouri winter. Now that is truly a good value in a SUV boys and girls.

    The new Sonata design will be popular here in America. It should sell way better than it eventually will, though. Too many paranoid people will buy the homely Camry and Accord and drive down Sonata sales a bit. What I'm hoping though is that some more American people will wake up to these South Korean cars and SUV's. They really are the future in automotive needs.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • delta4delta4 Member Posts: 138
    "I don't foresee the Japanese giving up their deserved, hard-earned status without a fight."- ray h

    Your comments show just how far Hyundai has come as a car company. The fact that we are now having a discussion about whether Hyundai's quality is on par with the top two Japanese rivals and whether the re-sale value of future cars that they build will be competitive with the likes of Camry and Accord says a whole lot about how quickly they have attained 'contender' status in this segment.

    You of all people ought to remember the humble beginings of both Toyota and Honda. If your memory is a little cloudy let me help it along;I recall their first offerings in the late '70s & early 80's- corona, tercel, civic, accord. In the beginning no one thought of these cheap, cramped, uncomfortable cars as anything other than basic transportation-The same can be said for early gen Hyundais introduced to the North American market.

    Did Hyundai miss the mark on quality? You sure bet they did. Have they learned an important lesson from their Japanese rivals as a result of this? Their latest sales figures for the last several years show them rebounding over 100%.

    By all accounts it seems that the new Sonata will be the benchmark of future Hyundais to come. Its success, and hence re-sale value will ultimately be determined by the market place who will be the final judge and jury.
  • smith20smith20 Member Posts: 256
    Anybody here familiar with the general design process, test, factory line validation, and market introduction of a new vehicle? I read somewhere that the new Sonata was 3.5 years in the making (unfortunately I can't remember where). So that puts the beginning of the project, according to that, at around the beginning of 2001 . . .

    I agree the new Sonata and the 2003 and 2004 Accord's have a similar rear style. But it doesn't seem too much like the 2002 and earlier. I assume the rear style of the 2003 was revealed around mid 2002 . . . that would be a year and a half into the new Sonata's design process . . . almost halfway. I am not familiar with the auto industry, but I was a process engineer in the semiconductor industry and the test and validation of a chip design takes a good deal of time and then it's takes another good chunk of time to set up a manufaturing line to produce the chip. I assume the testing cycle and factory line setup each take a considerable amount of time for making cars so it seems to me that, if Hyundai did blatantly copy the Honda styling cues, they might not have had much time to implement the copy.

    So if anybody does have direct knowledge of typical design cycles, does two years seem like enough time, or is it cutting it close? I have no idea, I'm just curious.
  • ray hray h Member Posts: 120
    pzev, allow me to give you a true-to-life example of Honda's ability to hold onto its resale value. On November 19, 2002, I totaled my 1996 Honda Accord at an intersection due to my own neglegence. Fortunately no one was hurt. The other car, a Ford Contour, rode up and over my Accord's front bumper leaving the Accord "defenseless" to both cars' combined momentum. The front end (bumper to windshield) of my car was pancaked to nearly half its original length, so at six years of age and use, Geico decided to just total it out. I received a check in the amount of $11,472 plus change for my LX 4-cyl. Geico's calculations were based on what amounted to the average of the Kelly Blue Book low and high "book" valuations for a west coast car in excellent condition. Conversely, Edmunds currently suggests I should be able to sell my west coast base model 2003 Sonata in the private sector (purchased December 12, 2002) for about $11,500. So, to recap, I'm comparing personal, real world experience (which I pray I'll never repeat - I'm getting to old for these types of "adventures"!) of a 6 year, 7 month old '96 Accord LX originally purchased for $17,000.00+ to a 1 year, 9 month old base model '03 Sonata V6 whose out-the-door price came to $17,523.30. At the risk of drawing a hasty conclusion, I get the impression my '96 Accord LX I4 (130hp non-Vtec) held a higher percentage of its original purchase price somewhat longer than my base model '03 Sonata V6 (170hp) has so far... Am I sorry I bought the Sonata? No, not at all. So far it's lived up to expectations. It's solid, comfortable and somewhat quieter than the car it replaced. It does not, however, hold the road quite as well - the Accord always left me the impression that it "wanted" to follow the direction of the road, requiring little driver input. The Sonata's definitely more twitchy despite two dealer and one independent shop alignments. Both cars came equipped with Michelin MXV4+ series radial tires - 195/65R15s on the Accord and 205/65R15s on the Sonata. Neverthless, I'm sufficiently satisfied with the Sonata to anticipate 10 year ownership barring unforseen circumstances. Do I miss my '96 Accord? Yeah, I'll have to admit that I do, and if a genie offered me the choice of my old Accord prior to the accident and my current Sonata, I'd have to think long and hard about my decision.

    delta 4, actually Toyota's "humble beginnings" preceeded the 1970s by a bit over a decade. In 1959, Toyota came to these shores with a little underpowered, 4-cyl OHV, 4-dr. crapbox called the "Toyopet". I was 15 at the time and my dad had a friend who bought one - a bit homely, but nevertheless well proportioned in a 1955 Chevy sort of way. I remember the ride - a WW-II Jeep rode better. Things've changed. Honda's "humble beginnings" predated the 1970s, too. I was still in community college, so it must've been ~1963-1965 that a very small ~900cc 2-dr. Honda car was introduced. It had a catchy name. It was called "The Honda Car"... It could nominally carry four passengers if two of 'em were no taller than 4th graders. Both the "Toyopet" and "The Honda Car" were quietly withdrawn from the U.S. market for lack of interest after the initial year or two fanfare died down. When the respective companies' car offerings next re-appeared in American showrooms in the mid-to-late 1960s for Toyota and the early 1970s for Honda, it was obvious the Japanese designers and engineers had done their homework. I was in optometry college by that time. A couple of my classmates bought or received the new Coronas in 1969 and 1970 - our graduation year. I'm not certain, but I believe the Honda Civics came over a year or two later. Small, but sufficiently developed to keep up with city traffic and run the legal speed limit on freeways. Reasonably well put together, and reliable, they were the right package to be ready for the first of several oil crises that would disrupt American driving and living habits for some time to come. Though not perfect, no one laughed at Japanese engineering again - especially Detroit.

    Hope I didn't bore any of you to a migraine with this jaunt down memory lane. But, if I did, tough... :)
  • delta4delta4 Member Posts: 138
    "Hope I didn't bore any of you to a migraine with this jaunt down memory lane. But, if I did, tough... :)" - ray h Actually Ray I enjoyed reading your down memory-lane-bio-tome. LoL!

    You definitely write with a flair towards the dramatic but alas I digress. Indeed as you pointed out so eloquently Hondas and Toyotas got their start way, way back when no one thought (or would they rather forget?) very much of what a Toyota or Honda would become today. My point here is Hyundai, like Toyota and Honda has indeed 'learned'.

    Of course there is a process at work for Hyundai due to the very case-in-point lessons and examples to which you refer. For a car company like Hyundai driven (pardon the pun!) by a relentless desire to rebuild its brand image takes sheer determination and a commitment to change the perception of that brand in the mind of the consumer. This of course takes time (next 2 yrs) and obviously must be backed up with and substantiated by a product that can deliver on its promise of high quality and value.

    Big picture: Hyundai is already on the way to making those inroads. They seem capable and dedicated to delivering the kind of cars the consumer is demanding. Their quality star is beginning to shine. Not unlike the story of the student surpassing the teacher, they may some day rise to displace the current market leaders and gain a foothold within the hallowed ranks of highly valued and desirable-to-own cars!
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    Not to take anything away from the Accord, but I've heard several stories of all brands where someone got some crazy amount from the insurance company. If I knew I could get $11,500 for a 6 year old Accord that was bought for $17,000 then I'd buy an Accord, even with its current styling. I just don't think this is the real world and I would get that amount, it would be significantly less.

    I mean what are we talking about here. A brand new car used for 6 years and only loses $5500 in value? I won't hold my breath thinking I could get the same for an Accord.

    I'm being serious, if you can show me that people are paying this amount for a 6 year old Accord then I will with no hesitation buy an Accord. I'm being flat out serious. Talk about a diamond in the rough. Only losing $5500 on a brand new car in 6 years? Sign me up!
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I wont admit that Im biased against Hyundai because I'm not. I was not ever in the market for a tC, since I purchased a vehicle in Jan 03 and cant afford to get a new one. Would I like a tC? Hell, yes! I dont think the tC has the Tib's taillights, personally, and to my eyes, they share few styling cues... though both are quite attractive. A better criticism, I feel, of the tC would be the seemingly carbon copy front end of the Volvo 40 series. Am I a fan of that? Not really.

    Pzev, you think Im anti-Hyundai but you seem to forget that when I purchased my Sentra 2.5LE, the only other car that I truly looked at was the Elantra. I chose the Sentra over it for a few basic reasons: the Sentra is significantly quicker, (coming out of a torque-free 94 Civic DX auto, I wanted some...), the 2.5LE came with standard ABS and discs, and the IIHS test on the Sentra was better than the Elantra's poor (though 'Acceptable' is hardly stellar, its obviously the better of the two). If I could have found an Elantra 4 door with ABS, it would have been a tougher decision. Big credits in the Elantra column was the long warranty, good fit and finish, and better (much smoother) ride. (BTW, it came down to the Sentra and Elantra because I was really interested in getting side airbags with head and chest protections, and at the time, those were the only two that offered this at a reasonable price).

    ~alpha
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