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The recall seems to address only the issue of a braking "lurch" of 1-2 seconds or more when the HSD control ECU has other higher priority tasks to perform..
Driving around a curve on a gravel road in a FWD vehicle under just a bit of acceleration is fraught with PERIL...!!
So VSC or TC will be highly sensitive in that case. Anyone having previously driven a FWD car without VSC or TC would undoubtedly quickly note the difference in handling dynamics.
Wow, when and how is this all going to stop!!! My advice to you is not to transport your child in this VERY UNSAFE VEHICLE!!! It is so frightening when your loose control of your braking, it is indescribable. Mine is going to Toyota tomorrow for the recall, straight from the auto body shop. I am going to have an intense conversation with the general manager. I plan on having the conversation on the showroom floor. I want all those people considering purchasing a Pruis to STOP and rethink this purchase. I am an RN and I am an advocate for all people!!!! I too have had many vehicle with abs breaking systems without any problems. The problem here is the computer. I believe the brains get "scrambled" when the surface changes on the road. I have driven Fords, Chryslers, Volkswagens, Mercedes, BMWs, and Hondas. Would take any of these over a Toyota. This was my first Toyota and will be my last!!!!! I will gladly pay the high price for gas if it offers me and my family safety. THE 2010 PRIUS IS NOT SAFE! TOYOTA HAS KNOWINGLY AND WILLINGLY PUT UNSAFE VEHICLES ON THE ROAD! TO ALL DRIVERS, BE CAREFUL IF A PRIUS IS BEHIND YOU, IT MAY NOT BE ABLE TO STOP!
The recall was to fix the more rare times of 1-2 second transitional periods.
Now I am living through another recall issue. I picked up my Prius in August of 2009. The car has met or exceeded my expectations. I had the software upgrade of the ECU and I am confident that in years to come I will enjoy the Prius as much as I enjoyed my Explorer. My wife and I drive our Prius keeping in mind that it is not a Corvette or a Mustang. We have adapted our driving styles taking in to account that the Prius accelerates slowly, but can keep up with most cars driving at highway speeds. We have adapted to the moment of “anxiety” when braking on bumpy roads while the car switches from regenerative braking to hydraulic braking. The recall has improved the “anxiety” inducing switchover. Hopefully, in time this issue will go the way of the Explorer-Firestone issue and we will get back to discussing MPG’s and how we can convert the current generation of Prius to a plug in hybrid.
Notification of Case Registration (All times are GMT-0500)
Project: NHTSA Hotline Center
Case: IVOQ: TOYOTA PRIUS
Case Number:
Date: 03/03/2010 Time: 14:41:43
Description:
Entered on 03/03/2010 at 14:41:43 EST (GMT-0500) :
TL- THE CONTACT OWNS A 2007 TOYOTA PRIUS. WHILE APPROACHING ANY TYPE OF STOP AND DECELERATING, IF THE VEHICLE TRAVELED OVER A SERIES OF BUMPS OR ANY UNEVEN ROAD SURFACE, THE VEHICLE WOULD MOMENTARILY ACCELERATE AND IMMEDIATELY CATCH ITSELF. THE CONTACT STATED IT FELT SIMILAR TO HAVING DEPRESSED THE BRAKE PEDAL AND REMOVING HIS FOOT MIDWAY THE ACTUAL BRAKING. THE DEALER WAS CONTACTED AND ADVISED THE VEHICLE WAS OPERATING AS IT WAS INTENDED. THEY ALSO ADVISED FILING A COMPLAINT WITH THE MANUFACTURER, WHICH HE DID. THE MANUFACTURER DID NOT RESPOND. THERE WERE NO RECALLS. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 40,000 AND THE CURRENT WAS 80,000. *KMJ
NHTSA ID:
199905
The ZVW30 model had the advantage of a brake fix already being applied on the assembly line. The problem it fixes are a momentary pause in the braking:
You'll notice there was brief pause in the braking approaching the gate entering Redstone Arsenal. In more detail:
Unfortunately, I have not heard of a similar fix for the NHW20 models, 2004-09. But there may be some relief coming ... not soon but eventually.
The new CEO of Toyota has formed a quality committee that he chairs with representatives from every continent. It doesn't mean things will change instantly, he is having to rebuild the quality institutions that seemed to have waned in the past. But the direction is clear. Steve St. Angelo it the North American officer. I would recommend sending him a letter and giving him and Toyota a chance to 'do the right thing.'
Bob Wilson">
I have always had success with our other toyotas but would not even want to sell this prius to anyone for fear of them being in a serious accident. I do not want someone else's death on my conscience.
toyota on the Mend in 2010
and
toyota halts sales
Many people there are debating whether the problem with acceleration and braking failure is real or not.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That resistance to documentation is what many people seem to have experienced through the years. That's not a good trait in a car company.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I believe the two are related. The computer controls the regenerative braking just as it controls the acceleration or doesn't control the acceleration in this case. The computer controls the switch from regeneration braking to applying the hydraulics brakes. That switching process with its noticeable, and dangerously long in some cases, lag is what a few people have complained about and has been reconfigured on the newest of the Priuses.
However, the computer gone crazy and giving full acceleration probably isn't goiing to be a computer also correctly apply regenerative braking nor will it apply the hydraulic system correctly.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yes many times...don't like the TRAC control on my Prius one bit.
Not linked...??
Without any doubt even closer than indentical twins still in the mother's womb.
More like a "deadly embrace" between the two systems.
And yet it has probably already saved you from at least one accident or injury.
No one should ever drive a FWD or F/awd vehicle without these life-saving "nanny" features fully active. If you're an inexperienced wintertime driver, or an idiot, they might even be of great help with a RWD or R/awd.
Really? Funny, in my 1982 Mercedes 240D, I never had any of these issues and there were no computers in that car, nor was I ever in an accident in that car. Having the TRAC control kick in when driving 25 mph on perfectly dry, smooth pavement is NOT the kind of "nanny" feature I want. Save your patronizing for someone else. I don't respect people who use the autonomy of a forum to belittle others.
There can be little doubt that today's car/engines can easily overcome the average driver's "skills".
We are learning more and more about faulty algorithms instilled in control units on our cars/trucks/SUVs. ( Lexus GX 460 )
First off, a few caveats - I'm an Engineer, and have approached this in a typical engineering fashion. I'm not an automotive engineer, but I did do quit a bit of MechE studies and earn my living as a Software Engineer, and I've got a pretty good handle on both the mechanical and electrical diagnostics. In addition to the Prius, which my daughter drives, we've got a VW Bora, an Audi Q7 and a Porsche 996, and I'm constantly tinkering with all of our cars to find out what makes them tick and how to make them tick better.
On Saturday, 24 April 2010, my daughter was driving over Hwy 17 to Santa Cruz, CA when she rounded a corner and executed a panic brake due to completely stopped traffic. She was able to keep the car under control and avoid collision. ABS likely was engaged. It's likely that the Stroke Sensor failed at this point. One or more calipers continued to be engaged after she stopped stepping on the brake pedal. She drove another several miles in this state, and experienced brake fade when she tried to come to a stop at a traffic light. When she finally pressed fully on the brake pedal, secondary braking was engaged and the wheels locked. She fishtailed, but was able to maintain control of the vehicle and avoid collision. She immediately parked and called me. Vehicle was towed to nearest Toyota dealer. Diagnostics indicated a DTC C1247 Stroke Sensor Malfunction, but upon electrical reset all mechanical functions resumed normally.
Brake failures are pretty frightening, especially when it's your inexperienced teenage kid behind the wheel. However, I suspect that failures of this nature are fairly endemic to all regenerative braking systems. No extent of mechanical controls would be capable of balancing the engine and brakes, so you've got to trust these things to a computer. And I can guarantee you that all software has bugs, especially around edge conditions. It's simply impossible to test for everything, all you can do is document and learn from your field data.
That being said, I would certainly hope that these situations have been heeded and improved by Toyota. I'm reading stuff here that's five years old, which what appear to be ample field reports. Toyota needs to step up to the plate and take immediate action on this stuff, and stop dismissing it as Edmunds/GM propoganda.
We tried arbitration, but got nowhere. We have taken it in multiple times. I know Toyota maintains that it is safe, but I don't agree. I have had several people explain the way the brakes work, but a surge is still a surge. I drive slowly and take my foot off gas way before stop light, but what I can't control is when on a fast road and am cut off and then the person slams on their brakes. I tried to trade it in, but I will lose more than $12,000 on a car that is less than a year old. I know cars depreciate about 20% in the first year, but that is almost a 40% depreciation. Now I am stuck with a car that I don't think is safe! I am calling everyone from media to senators and hope that I get some traction. From NHTSA and other forums I know that I am not the only one experiencing this problem. One way or another this issue must be resolved!
You wanted a hybrid, highly fuel efficient, car. That can't happen without regenerative braking to recover energy that would otherwise be lost to heating of the brakes. So the frictional brakes MUST be disabled at times, random times insofar as you are concerned.
As far as I know there is simply no way to make an easy and smooth transition, certainly not in all circumstances/situations, from pure/only regenerative braking to partial or even full frictional braking.
And by the way, what you are experiencing is NOT a SURGE but a slight lessening of braking effort. I just drove a 2010 Sienna for a full week and the forward lurch/"surge" due to the coastdown upshift after the engine fuel-cut period is just as noticeable in the Sienna as in the Prius.
My '01 F/awd RX300 has very much the same coastdown "upshift" lurch/"surge" as the speed declines below ~35MPH or ~10MPH. I noticed it at first, shortly after I purchased it new, but nowadays I find I must pay close attention in order to take note that it remains.
The 2010 has disc brakes frond AND rear but that should not cause your problem.
Bring it to Don at Bighorn Toyota in Glenwood Springs, Colorado and he'll fix it for you.
Not just a slight lurch but seconds or more of virtually no braking effort.
Scary moments resulted.
Once you have endured a few of those moments even any little bit of brake "fade", "slight surge", common to the Prius, becomes a heart in throat event.
700 milliseconds.
Stop exaggerating.
.