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  • cd68cd68 Posts: 11
    I'm please that Subaru will now offer the Legacy with a 3.0 non-Limited model. I noticed, however, that the 3.0 does not have the Bilstein sport suspension. It's only on the 3.0 Limited. I'm curious what the difference is between the standard suspension and the sport suspension? How noticeable is the difference while driving? Is it possible to retrofit the sport suspension to the standard 3.0 model? Thanks for any feedback.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    You can retro fit it, however its not simply the bilstien suspension. There are lighter aluminum control arms and some other bits I think that differentiate the Spec B and 3.0R v. the non Spec B and 3.0R models.

    I have an 05 LGT non-limited and on-track it's very well behaved but I have a lot more body roll than I'd like. I'm currently looking at upgrades for it to make it more track worthy since I just sold my Subaru race car and I'll need something to take to the track. Here is a list of items I'm looking to do to bring it up to spec:

    Koni Sport Struts
    Whiteline Sway Bars
    Downpipe of some sort
    Uppipe of some sort
    Cobb Accessport
    Hawk HP+ Pads

    I already have:
    SPT Cat-back exhaust
    Wider rims with 235-45-17 Tires
    Summer Tires Currently Yokohama Advan 048s, may be switching to Pole Position RE01Rs next time around.

    Other than that my car should be pretty well setup for doing HPDE, Time Trials and lots of fun on the street. I'm actually going to be entering into a One-Lap of America type competition (just shorter) later this year called the Southern Sprints. We'll see how well the car does at that.

  • cd68cd68 Posts: 11
    Thanks for your reply. Wow - it does seem like there's more to the retrofit than I originally thought. From a price standpoint, is it worth doing the retrofit, or is it better to just purchase the Limited model that has the sport suspension?

    The problem is that I much prefer the cloth interior to leather - especially living in hot and sunny California, so that's why I was thinking the 3.0 would be preferred to the 3.0 Limited.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I'll be honest, if you aren't planning on tracking the car and even if you are, unless you have a lot of experience (I'm an experienced racer and track instructor) you won't notice the difference between the stock suspension and the "sport" one on the 3.0R/Spec B

    If you are experienced, like I am, then even the stuff in the 3.0R/Spec B suspension won't be enough for you to not tinker with it. The only reason to get the Spec B I would say is the 6MT trans, mechanical rear diffy, and the VDC.

    So I'd say go for the non-limited (that's what I have) and then you can slowly build up if you feel you need it.

  • cd68cd68 Posts: 11
    Mike - nope, I'm definitely not experienced here. Thanks very much for your comments. The standard 3.0 should be just what I'm looking for. Hopefully they'll start showing up at the dealerships pretty soon.
  • I am seriously considering an '09 Legacy Wagon or Outback but am very concerned about some of the issues I am seeing about '06+ models. Any Sube owners wanna chime in? I presently own a GM SUV and hav no interest in bringing my vehicle to the dealer for warranty issues every other month as I have for the last 3 years!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Keep in mind that people seek out boards like these to report problems and try to find solutions.

    The Legacy is generally very reliable, far better than average.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Yup I have an 05 LGT Wagon 5MT, no issues to speak of at 59k miles.

  • jay_24jay_24 Posts: 536
    We have a 2001 Outback and a 2003 Chevy Tahoe(bought used in 2004). The Outback has been in the shop twice for fixes beyond normal maint. If I recall each was for a sensor. I currently have 130K on the Outback. The Tahoe has been in the shop twice. Once for automatic locks and another for a paint warranty issue. Tahoe has 75K on it.

    General maintainance for the Tahoe has been less.
    I enjoy filling the Outback with gas more than the Tahoe, since I typically get 28mpg with the outback vs.19 with the Tahoe. (highway miles)

  • pilot1226pilot1226 Posts: 165
    Does the 2009 Sube Legacy Limited come with Fog Lights? I used Edmund's website for a pricing report, but it seems like in the "Accessories" there's no option for fog lights, which is something I'd like to have.

    In other news, talking with a dealer now to make a deal w/ pickup for next week sometime for a Limited.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I think the LTDs all come with foglights (hence no option for them) but any OEM fogs are generally useless in my opinion.

  • pilot1226pilot1226 Posts: 165
    Yeah, you're right. Looking forward to those heated seats and mirrors though. Thanks for the heads up. Got a quote from a dealer for about a 3.9% apr and invoice pricing. I'll post some pictures in a few days, probably will arrange pickup for next Monday or Tuesday.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181

    Good luck with it. If you need tint or clear-bra for it let me know I have a top notch installer that I'm good friends with.

  • If you're thinking of buying an Outback, I would strongly suggest that you rent one first. I recently purchased an 08 O/B LTD W/VDC and the car has way too many rattles - it's driving me crazy and ruining an otherwise good car. This is my 4th Subie and I'm not that happy with it. Rattles may not sound like a big problem but it horrible especially if you do lots of driving like me.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Perhaps it's just your car and not ALL of them. This generation of Legacy is known for it's fit and finish and lack of rattles.

  • Yes, I'm sure not all of them have rattles, but because this problem is so bothersome, I've been doing tons of reading about this and many Outbacks (not sure about the Legacy) are plagued with various rattles that are hard to diagnose. This has also been the case withe the '09 Forester. My neighbor owns an '05 Outback 2.5i and she has the same problem. With my O/B, the sunroof rattles from time to time and I'm also getting a rattle from somewhere in the rear cargo area - all the time - argh! The dealer wanted to rip out the entire headliner to try to find the problem. Not sure I want them taking apart my new car.
  • pilot1226pilot1226 Posts: 165
    Pickup on my 2009 Obsidian Black Legacy 2.5 Limited is Tuesday ;) Hooray!
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 11,695
    Yep, the new generation is awful with rattles. I had an '07 and an '08 and both had many rattles, and the same ones. In comparison, I recently bought a '98 Ford Escort, with 108,000 miles, for $800, and it has one rattle. How's that for irony? :P

    The good thing is that I was able to get the rattles sorted out on both Outbacks, but it took many visits to the dealer and more than a little insistence. I basically had to diagnose it for them, but hey, at least the new owners can enjoy their fantastic machines rattle-free!

    I will still buy another Subaru, maybe they will even have their fit issues worked out by then....
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Congrats, take pics when you take delivery.

    I think that renting is not a solution, but I do think a long test drive is a good idea. Turn off the radio and drive around for a good bit.

    My van had a rattle but it turned out to be a coin holder I have that sits in one of the cup holders. I hate carrying around change, though, so I'll have to make a point of spending that change!
  • pilot1226pilot1226 Posts: 165
    Invest it! In time, it'll pay for your next Subaru! (I'm serious, I used to throw change into a giant Deer Park water container and recently cashed it all in, cha-ching!)

    If anyone was interested in a price, the out the door price, including tax, destination, and every single other fee (registration, titling, etc.) was $26,300.

    MSRP is $25,860 w/ Destination
    Invoice is $24,337 w/ Destination

    I didn't have a trade-in, so I had to pay full tax on the amount. Doing quick anti-math, 93% of 26,300 is $24,459 (NJ Tax is 7%), so we're looking pretty good there, including fees.

    I saw an itemized sheet for the "invoice" pricing from a few dealers, funny that they give you a full tank of gas on the way out but charge you $9 per gallon for the courtesy and another $15 on top for the labor to put gas in the car. Prices varied slightly from dealer to dealer, but the charge was there on all of them.
  • altimatealtimate Posts: 62
    I looked at an 09 SE today and test drove it. The car was a knock out and they're having another awesome lease deal. Sign and drive for 24 mo. at 235/mo.

    My problem is that I have issues with the comfort of the vehicle. I currently have an 03 Altima which is a much wider and roomier vehicle. The Legacy felt tight with my leg rubbing against the emergency brake which was not comfortable. Also felt the steering wheel didn't have enough vertical rise for me to not bump my knees when entering. I've unfortunately gained about 30lb in the last year and now am 6'0" 250.

    I'm wondering if there are seat adjustments other things that might enable you to avoid the leg hitting the emrgency brake and the steering wheel. I'd like to get this car but not if i'm going to be poked and prodded all the time.

    Also, I asked for a quote on the lease with after market leather and satellite radio. They wanted $50/mo. for the leather and 20/mo for the radio. That's ridiculous on a 2 year lease. They were charging me the full price of these items with no discount despite the fact that close to 70% of the car (residual) remains with the lessor. The saleman kind of shrugged when I rasied the issue but said we could haggle over price (also lowballed trade).

    My problem is there is no sense haggling if I'm not comfortable sitting in the car. Any thoughts about this or similar experiences would be appreciated.
  • ahqahq Posts: 37
    Here in Milwaukee, a couple of area Subaru dealers are advertising $179/month leases on the 2.5i SE w/manual transmission. The terms are 10K miles per year, 2 year term, and around $899-999 down depending on the dealership.

    I currently drive a 2002 Nissan Sentra GXE with about 76K miles. After this last winter, which really mangled the roads around here, my Sentra's ride became almost downright punishing, even though the shocks and struts are reportedly still in good shape. I wanted to move up to a car with a more solid structure and a more absorbent ride.

    I was considering leasing a 2008 Impreza 2.5i sedan, which has been advertised for $199 sign-and-drive 36-month leases around here for months. The Impreza reportedly has one of the best rides in its class. However, after finding out about the $179 lease on the Legacy, I went to the dealership this evening with the intention to evaluate both cars.

    The Impreza is a nice small car, but it isn't a major step up from my Sentra like the Legacy is. I was upside down on my Sentra by around $320, so rolling that difference into my 24-month, 12K mile lease gave me monthly payments of $241 plus tax. BTW the Legacy I was looking at is an automatic, not a stick shift.

    Regarding altimate's concern about comfort, I guess it depends on what you're used to. I'm also 6'0" and weigh 250 lbs (what a coincidence, eh?) and I found the Legacy cockpit to be just that... it felt like a cockpit, somewhat snug but I didn't find it to be cramped. I didn't feel the handbrake jabbing into my thigh, but my test drive lasted 15 minutes at best. I can live with it for two years if I had to, however. I should add that the power driver's seat really enhanced comfort by providing me with very good thigh support. The Sentra has accomodated me quite well, but the Legacy is slightly more comfortable for me.

    One definitely can't fit four six-footers in a Legacy sedan, especially with a sunroof, which cuts into rear seat headroom. It's not as spacious as an Altima, Accord, or Camry. But if space is not much of an issue (it isn't for me, I rarely have more than one passenger with me), then I'd go for the Legacy... it has so much more flair than the others!

    Can't wait to pick up my car tomorrow evening!! :) :) :)
  • altimatealtimate Posts: 62
    Thanks for giving me a heads up on your experience.

    I think I need to give the car a longer drive to really judge whether the comfort issue is minor or a deal breaker. I might ask the dealer if I could get one to drive for a day (or a good part of a day) so that I could deal with the issue.

    I think I'll check some other dealers to see how they approach the option issue which obviuosly shouldn't raise the lease price as much as it did.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Comfort is paramount. Honestly, I would try a Forester, or buy something else.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Very nice. Enjoy it! :)

  • altimatealtimate Posts: 62
    Well I went to another dealer today and did another test drive. This time they actually let me drive the car alone. Interestingly, I did not have the issue of the hand brake pushing on my leg. I spent some time adjusting the seat and while its still a bit snug I was fine with it. It looks like this is going to be the car for me.

    I found the second dealer much more easy going and didn't feel I was being hustled.
    When I asked him about what adding leather, and 15000 mi would do to the lease price he gave me a detailed discussion of the cost of these items and the residuals effect on them. Bottom line what the other dealer wanted $100/mo more for, he wanted $50/mo for. I called the other dealer back and he wouldn't budge even though the salesman admitted there might be something to my claim that you can't charge me the full price of an option when the car has an 80% residual (unbelievable that number). I think I'm going with the second dealer especially since he indicated that a free loaner would be given with all service calls.

    Will need to wait a bit for the color choice to come in but I'm totally happy with this choice. It's kind of a relief to finally have closure on this as I've been looking for what seems an endless amount of time.

    This is a conservatively styled but attractive car with a high quality interior and a ton of options for a price in the low 20's. The idea of spending 10k more for a so-called entry level luxury car is waste of money in my opinion.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I've unfortunately gained about 30lb in the last year and now am 6'0" 250

    I'm 5'10, 300lb, while not as comfy as my Armada my LGT is not bad to drive for 2 or 3 hrs. I wouldn't drive cross country in it, but I can adjust it well enough for me. If you can wait til the spring, the 2010 model will be here and it's supposed to be significantly larger.

  • altimatealtimate Posts: 62

    Hopefully by next spring I'll get rid of those 30 extra pounds. Easier said than done, of course. Regardless, I'm set on the 09 Legacy.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Well at least you are probably getting the most refined version of the 4th generation of Legacy. Last build year usually is best IMO.

This discussion has been closed.