Hyundai Genesis vs. Audi A6 vs. Lexus GS vs. BMW 5 series

choe13

This is a thread to discuss about the Genesis vs. the competition. I have driven the genesis v6 vs some of its fwd drive competitors(maxima, audi) and direct rear wheel drive competitors(pontiac G8, 300, infinity m35) and lastly so called out of its league competitors(lexus gs 350 , bmw 528); the conclusion is this is a dangerous car with so much value its not even funny. (planning to buy a new luxury car soon)

Audi , maxima bare no comparison imo and lexus isn't as sporty , bmw isn't as smooth. Don't get me wrong both cars the gs and 5 series are amazing cars, but the genesis overall drive is an amazing in between the smooth and sporty characteristics plus it costs thousands less

I would like to hear what hyundai, audi ,bmw, lexus drivers or enthusiasts thought about their test drive on the genesis and vice versa for example genesis/lexus owners enthusiasts and their test drives on bmw 5 series etc.(v6's vs v6 and v8 vs v8 etc)

marvinlee1

The Genesis 3.8 six impressed me for its silence on good roads, but not so much on rough asphalt roads. I test drove a Lexus ES350 and found it quiet on good and bad roads. Not so impressive in headroom, however.

The two different-appearing cars are direct competitors for people who seek a very high level of refinement and silence but don't want to pay for the large Lexus. I like the ES350 for its smaller size and easier parking in narrow compact-car parking slots. The Genesis is better if I can offset its size by enjoying V8 power.

The Genesis is a new car, while the ES350 is not new this year. The Genesis six speed automatic should be replaced by the new ZF eight speed automatic and direct fuel injection. I expect both to appear within two years.

gerrygerry

I drove the v6 for over 15 mins today n highway and winding roads in N NJ today. I felt the car bouncing on the Highway but was smoother on paved back roads. Not impressed enough to trade in my 2008 Honda Accord I4. The Accord is sportier and fun to drive!

mmoreno1978

You forgot about the Mercedes E-Class and Infiniti M.

choe13

What do you mean bouncing?? The genesis and accord are completely different kind of cars. Accord doesn't compare.

If you have driven a fwd car it might take some time to get used to a rwd car and vice versa. But i'd say harder from fwd to rwd. People mistaken handing for steering response and usually fwd feel more like a toy driving turning in small corners but in high speeds takes more effort to handle. Going off tangent a bit but anywyas i didn't find the genesis bouncy at all for a car of its size. It does have softer suspension setting than the accord no doubt but i find it having a nice balance between ride and handling

I'm pretty much in the bag to get the genesis but also i want to test drive the coupe version (trade it in for a regular genesis later when i start a family then).

After driving the genesis i won't test out any other fwd car in its price range like the audi a6. No matter how nice the interior is and the prestiege behind an audi it will be a fwd. I have been high on mercedes cars(if i could ever afford it in this lifetime) , i just love alot of thigns about it, but the hyundai is definitely a good poor man version (did a better job than lexus, especially in terms of handling and overall design execution).

Believe it or not this car is really expensive in korea like 60 k here for a loaded v6 and i think ppl don't know u are getting a great deal in the states(to get the hyundai name rolling). The car is definitely sophisticated in engineering and have used high quality parts. My only wish is that , this car should had nothing to do with the hyundai badge

carolinabob

Read the reviews in October issues of Automobile magazine and Car and Driver regarding the ride and suspension. I noticed the same thing in all three that I test drove. Will it get worse as the car ages? Who knows at this point.

joe97

V6 vs. I4

RWD vs. FWD

I know which one I'd pick - every time

joe97

Didn't notice anything after driving both V6 and V8. The car is very responsive yet extremely quite. As for the ride, I would rate it between the 5er and the GS, firmer than the GS but softer than the 5 Series; in other words - balanced.

reality2

Let me see, the A6 bares no comparision ...to Hyundai? Are you on crack? I'll put up an A6 4.2 V8 Quattro Sports and blow the Genesis out of the water. I'll put the A6 with its new amazing 3.0 Supercharged V6 and do the same. The A6 is one the most refined luxury automobiles in its class. Also, the Maxima is several classes below an A6 yet alone a premium and storied marquee like Audi itself. You really need to get a clue about Audi if you think Nissan is its competitor. The interior alone in the A6 wins hands down in the premium luxury class, not to mention the A6 outsells the 5-Series, E-Class, and GS globally without a problem. If you want we can add the V10 S6 as well for a comparison - the one that easily bested the M5 in recent reviews, or we can bring the new 580 bhp V10 RS6 from Europe and do some more comparisons if you like with world's fastest sedan and Avant. These are all A6s you know, and you are saying the Maxima is a competitor. I almost wet my pants laughing at such stupidity.

That said, I am not knocking the Genesis. I reviewed the Genesis at the LA Auto Show last November and walked away very impressed. I would buy the Genesis easily over an imitation premium brand like Lexus any day. And as a previous owner of 3 Hyundai Sonatas in my earlier years, I have always liked the brand. My Sonatas were very well built and reliable and contained plenty of luxury at the time. I would always choose a Hyundai over a Japanese competitor. I think Hyundai has done an oustanding job with the Genesis and created a luxury content laden vehicle with tremendous promise. So, yes, the Genesis is a luxury vehicle from the stand point of its content and build, but Hyundai is not a premium carmaker as of yet. The distinction is very important. Premium brands like Audi, MB, and BMW have decades if not a century (Audi and MB) as storied marquees who have contributed strongly to the evolution of the automobile and been at the forefront of motor sports. Premium is more than just having power windows, it is about a certain culture that the marquees has developed over decades and the subsquent following in technology, motor sports, evolution, design, and style. With the Genesis, Hyundai is on the right track, but it will take more than a just luxury laden car to do so. Eventually, Hyundai will have to challenge Audi, BMW, and MB on the race track, something Lexus cannot fathom to do.

swixon

Very well said! I have been trying to decide between the A6 and the Genesis both are great cars but the A6 is superior in so many ways as you so articulately explained.

allmet33

Okay...here's one for you...the Cadillac CTS-V beat the M5

09 CTS-V vs. 08 BMW M5 SMG

It's good that the premium makes have a racing tradition, but it doesn't necessarily equate to greatness. I mean...look at the respect that Acura isn't getting with it's racing heritage behind it. Hyundai actually does have a racing tradition, but it's in rally racing and the Tiburon that they race has been consistently at the top.

I'm glad to see someone that can really put it like it is in regards to the Genesis.

allmet33

The Audi A6 may very well be superior to the Genesis in every way, however...a fully loaded Genesis 3.8 will run you about $37K out the door while the 4.6 version will ring up right at about $40K. That being said...buying the Genesis will save you anywhere between $10-26K. I just came from pricing out an A6 4.2 and once you get though paying for options like airbags, adaptive air suspension, Nav, leather driver side dashboard, 18" alloy wheels and power rear and side shades...the price is $60K+. $40K for a fully loaded Genesis 4.6 or $60+ for the A6 4.2? Hmmmmmmmm...I know what I could do with a cool $20K+!!! :shades:

Also, I don't know if Audi's reputation has gotten better in regards to their vehicles always being in the shop, but I've known a few Audi owners over the years and that was the one consistent complaint I heard. Don't beat me down, I'm not saying it's a problem...I'm just saying what I had heard.

At any rate...in terms of luxury feel, the Genesis is probably right up there with the A6, but in terms of driving dynamics, the Audi will truly outshine the Genesis on every level.

kdshapiro

The interior alone in the A6 wins hands down in the premium luxury class, not to mention the A6 outsells the 5-Series, E-Class, and GS globally without a problem.

It may be a great car but it doesn't outsell the 5 series yet alone the rest. Check theautochannel.com. Here's an example in August 2008 ytd sales of the 5 series were about 32,000, A6, 8,000.

kdshapiro

$40K for a fully loaded Genesis 4.6 or $60+ for the A6 4.2? Hmmmmmmmm...I know what I could do with a cool $20K+!!! :shades:

That may be the choice for you, but value is in the eyes of the beholder. There is a certain pay more, get more mentality. Although whether what you perceive as the "get more" is the value that cause the 5 series for example to lead the pack in luxury sedans as opposed to lead the pack with luxury appointments.

allmet33

Although whether what you perceive as the "get more" is the value that cause the 5 series for example to lead the pack in luxury sedans as opposed to lead the pack with luxury appointments.

A huge gimme here is the free maintenance package you get with a BMW for 4 years or 50k miles (I believe that's correct)...that in itself is a huge value. I mean...one reason you used to see a lot of BMW's on the used car lots was because folks would get them, but then get rid of them because of maintenance costs. Now...you only focus on paying the car note which is very appealing.

kgary

The interior alone in the A6 wins hands down in the premium luxury class, not to mention the A6 outsells the 5-Series, E-Class, and GS globally without a problem.
It may be a great car but it doesn't outsell the 5 series yet alone the rest. Check theautochannel.com. Here's an example in August 2008 ytd sales of the 5 series were about 32,000, A6, 8,000

I believe he was discussing worldwide numbers where the A6 does outsell the 5 series. You in turn are looking at the US numbers.

kdshapiro

Ah thanks for the clarification. So the A6 is a runaway hit in all corners of the world except the US? :confuse

reality2

First of all I said globally in terms of sales. Second the A6 sold over 11,000 in the US this year. Yes, less than the 5-Series, but that doesn't make the 5 better. Some of the comments here are bit funny. As for reliability, Audi is one of the most recommended by CR and among the top ten in the lastest JD Power Quality surveys. You guys seem either to be stuck in some past, are quite bias, or simply lack any Audi knowledge. Sorry, but don't compare Hyundai to a 100 year old marquee like Audi. And racing wise, a couple rallys don't equate to over 100 years of motor sport prowess, yet alone eight 24 Hour of Le Mans wins including two wins so far in diesel race car. Luxury is one thing, any car company can do that, but competing against Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz culturally in another. Like I said I like Hyundai alot. I've owned several and been very happy with them. But some of the arguments are bit far fetched. Yes, the Genesis is very nice car, and it may have similar luxury to the A6, 5-Series, or E-Class, but it is still not the same as these in terms of execution. Add the S/RS, M, and AMG versions and game totally over. A S6 or RS6 will dismantle a Gensis.

reality2

Although whether what you perceive as the "get more" is the value that cause the 5 series for example to lead the pack in luxury sedans as opposed to lead the pack with luxury appointments.


BMW and Mercedes are well know for moving volume through easy financing. Why do you thing there are so many BMWs on the road. Also, that is why BMW has seen the floor fall from under them with their residual values crashing and showing 40% sales drops. Not to mention losing $400 million in the US alone. So, yes the 5-Series may sell more, but if you give them away, hey then get the above is the result. So, sales volumes don't show the whole picture. On the other hand, Audi now leads MB and BMW in residual values and its profits are soaring even in today's grime global economy. Cannot say the same for its competitors. So, look at the whole picture more carefully before spewing volume numbers. Audi is the only premium brand to show growth globally in 2008.

allmet33

Hey...whoa partner, I wasn't the one spewing volume numbers for any car. :confuse:

claudiokw

Interesting exchanges but let me tell you something, my last 3 cars were a 528, 535 and 745. I now own the 4.6 Genesis with the tech package. granted only one week and it is too early but I found $50k in my bank account last week when I came home with the Genesis. I was about to trade in the 745 for the 750 and I am so happy I stumbled on the Genesis when i saw it 2 weeks ago in Boston for the first time. Yes there is a difference but the status symbol of the BMW is not $50+K
without even considereing the residual value. Status symbol and throwing money away is not my sport any longer, for now I love my :shades: Genesis with all the great goodies and time will tell.

mobiusf1

I drove both the GS350 and 535xi, and other cars in the segment and easily picked the 535xi which I was fairly confident I was going to pick earlier. M35x, although the 2nd best performer I drove (really enjoyed driving it), is still slightly behind the 535 in terms of performance, the build quality was also lacking in addition to a lack of split folding rear seats (kinda important to me, gives a huge increase in practicality), and not so great gas mileage. A6 looks nice, has a great interior (except for strange omission of auto steering wheel adjustment unless they changed that) and costs a bit less than the 535xi (only the A6 V6 version); but definitely exhibited more body roll in the corners than the 535xi and weaker overall performance

The 535's engine is simply awesome, its a twin-turbo inline 6, with stronger performance than Audi's V8, and better fuel economy. And the cost advantage for the Audi only comes with the A6's V6 engine.

MB E Class, forget about it, a joke, and it costs more than the 535, at least the Lexus has a price argument. Lexus GS350, sorry, no way. Its steering is numb compared to the 535xi, noticeably more body roll in the corners, and headroom seemed to be an issue. I don't really need to go into any more about it because if the performance is not there than the other stuff doesn't matter. For others though, this may not matter as much. Lexus and Mercedes Benz don't make cars that fit my idea of enjoyable driving. The 535 is a true sports sedan and I certainly can't say that about the GS350. The iDrive, while it could be a bit more intuitive, is not that bad, and is not a deal breaker by any stretch. In fact I don't mind it at all. And no, the cup holders were not even a consideration, haha.

This is an honest opinion, no bias, if Lexus made a GS model like their own IS-F against the 535xi, then it would far more difficult.

Although the 535 has sharp handling, excellent road feel, fantastic engine performance and efficiency, I must also mention that the ride quality is excellent.

Nothing against the Genesis though, a friend of mine just got one. I would definitely get it over the GS and then buy a used Honda S2000 with the rest (maybe I'd need a bit more, but you get the point). After driving it though I can say that the 535's handling, cornering, and overall performance are quite a bit better. I like it, especially for the price. You've got to understand that the Genesis doesn't, and isn't trying to, compete with the 5 Series; compete with Lexus, yes, but BMW, no.

I could go into even more details but its late so here it is summed up in 1 simple sentence. If you want a floaty, relaxed (I would say boring) ride take the Lexus, if you want to drive, get the BMW ...and I love to drive.

jyym

Pretty much in line w/ what I think about the cars in the segment.

The Genesis is not a sports sedan like the 535 and rather is a cruiser w/ a bit of sport (the only sedan that would come close to the 535 in driving dynamics would be the G8 GXP).

I definitely would pick the Genesis over the E Class and GS350 (caveat: I haven't driven the new E Class and while it is supposed to be greatly improved, it's just too ugly for me to ever consider).

Now, if BMW could just work on their styling - the new 7 was a disappointment (a bit too bland).

nibs

I too have tested and have taken time to drive many different premium cars. I've also tested the higher end Honda's, Nissan offerings. Although I have not driven the Genesis, I wouldn't consider trading my 530XIT. The XIT is a sleeper wolf among sheep. It may not be the fastest or the sportiest but when taken into perspective it does more than all of the others put together. Handling is awesome, it has loads of interior space, it is quiet and confident on the road. I have the comfort seats, which must have 20 different ways to adjust.

I found the Mercedes seats to be too hard. The Audi reminds me too much of a VW, just bland and the seats are sized on small end. I have not been able to find that perfect ergonomic position that suits me in any car but the 530. That said, I even tried the latest BMWs and I still prefer my 530.

Oh, my dog loves it too.

art234

Let me pose a couple of questions here....

I am looking at the BMW 5 series 528/535 xi vs. the Lexus GS350AWD and the Acura TL. I have driven each and find them comparable--the BMW handles best but is most technologically deficient. It has a single CD, have to pay for a changer, no onboard HDD, no backup camera etc.

So real world fuel economy--I assume Lexus or Acura gets better real world mileage then either Bimmer...would that be correct?

Also--has anyone compared the Logic7 audio in the BMW to the Mark Levinson in the Lexus? Music is VERY important to me.

I have an M35X which I can't WAIT to get rid of -- you can read about THAT in the Infiniti thread.....but I am down to these three choices.....drove the A6 and wasn't too impressed.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

pg48477

I had an older TL model and the millage was great on the highway but very poor in the city. I now have 535 and the millage is about the same, but performance is better, much better.

I have Logic7 and do not find it anything special, I heard that Mark Levinson is much better.

As far as the total package goes, I find 535 the best in a class, GS does not come close and TL is in a different league.

nibs

bmw vs audi vs acura rl

Get the technology package with the 535 and you'll be happy enough. As for driving, don't let HP and speed fool you. Get that HP to the road is the trick and BMW does it better than any other automaker.

Good luck with whatever you get. Stay away from Volvo.

art234

What do you mean, Technology Package? I can't find any mention of a technology package on the 5 series...maybe not available in NY? Do you mean Nav?

nibs

BMW USB/IPOD

The new 5 comes with usb and aux in. Add the Nav, satellite, and bluetooth, what else is there?

mobiusf1

The 535 is the way to go. Forget about the GS, and the TL is nice but not quite in the same league as the BMW. The 535 gets fantastic fuel economy. I'm getting 24.5 mpg combined driving... and I live in Brooklyn. The Logic7 system for $1200 might or might not be worth. I didn't get it on mine. Its definitely not something to based your choice of car on. If you get the non AWD version of the 535 then get the sport package. Read my post a page or 2 ago about some of the cars in the class, hopefully it helps. And forget about the CD changer. You should just put all your music onto an MP3 player. And by the way, even though BMW says its an iPod usb adapter you can actually plug almost any usb mp3 player into the car and it will allow you to use the steering wheel controls to control the music. I have a sony a810 walkman in there. Works great. Any more questions just ask.

bmlexus

Just like everyone else is saying, 5 seri is the best way to go.

I personally think that the GS and the TL isn't as good as the 5.

My only concern with bmws is, reliability and electronics, my first impression has not been very nice.

Other than that, no other sedan is as exciting, especially when you're in the drivers seat.

There is 1 more car which is about the same size as the 5, only if you're interested, the Jaguar XF, I saw 1 today in white, and I have to say, amazing looking from the rear in white color.

Looks a lot better than the current 5, and did you know that there will be a redesign 5 sometime this year.

bmlexus

If you're interested in the Jag, there is someone in the Jag XF forum who is about to take the new XF or the 535.

Only if you're interested, otherwise, good luck with the 535i.

bruceomega

FWIW,

I have an '08 535Xi.

On the road, I have gotten as high as 30 mpg at a somewhat steady 74 mph. I typically average about 25 mpg on a trip with no effort to be frugal with the gas pedal. Trip computer shows overall average is 19 mpg, local and highway combined.

I really like Logic 7. It's much better than the standard audio system in my wife's '06 X3.

What I like most is Lexicon's Logic 7 surround sound processsing. When engaged, it seems like you are listening in a larger environment than the physical confines of the car itself, and provides a more natural ambiance.

Thanks
Bruce

art234

Thanks for the insight. The current thinking is going to be the BMW 5 series vs. the A6 from Audi, which I really liked. The BMW would, however, be a 528, which while not as fast as the 535, is adequate for my needs. My dealer just got a new one in with Logic7, but I have to add the Satellite and CD changer--the hard drive models won't be in for a while and will not likely have the incentives.

mobiusf1

hey sounds great. Question, have you driven both the 528i and 535i? Just saying, b/c to be honest, the 535 is far faster and gets very similar fuel economy. When your buying a car like this then the extra money shouldn't make that much of a difference because you should get the car you want. Don't compromise. I'm just saying this from my experience. But if your fine with the 528i than all the power to you.

art234

I have decided to wait it out a bit longer....I technically have 3 months left on the Infiniti M lease and in a worst case scenario my wife is willing to drive the M--leaving me with an RX400h which I love.

I can order a new BMW the way I want it and it would be in just about in time...or wait for the Audis to be updated with the HDD nav system, which is coming for 2010--but I heard they may arrive early.

I'll keep everyone posted.

adamjmank

I am driving my genesis 3.8 for 2 weeks now 1400 miles on it.
Very disappointed with the bumpy ride ( bounces a lot ) and the dealer has no explanation for this. The car I test drove was not as bumpy. On the streets and highway around the dealership.
I drive to work on highway 35 miles each way on concrete highway. makes it very bouncy for a 36000 car.

I replaced my lexus with this and the same trip was much smoother.
I also feel the rear wheel genesis 3.8 accleration is very less compared to the car I replaced.

the car itself looks gorgeous in looks. I am still waiting for a resolution from hyundai. for now i am riding it with reduced air pressure although it doesn't help much in ride comfort.

The tight ride (minus the bumpyness) can be compared with a BMW.

55396

"The Accord is sportier and fun to drive!"

Funny, I just tried out an 09 V6 and thought it was nice but uninvolving, Maybe I drove too many BMW's. Then again, I was talking to the salesman. Better they should just shut up while you're driving. I thought my 86 Accord coupe was fun, but didn't handle. A flexy flier. It may have been in a wreck as the body was not solid.

55396

Mercedes E-Class and Infiniti M

Mercedes has had horrendous quality problems and sounds like the battery drains down in just a few days. Infiniti M got rave reviews from Jin Healey @ USA Today, but gets horrible gas mileage.

55396

My daughter has an 06 Sonata, replacing a 97 Camry, one of which we also had. My first impression was that it didn't measure up to the Camry and the ride was too stiff. I drove it again last week and didn't notice those things, except that the seat doesn't go back nearly far enough. She loves it, esp the V6. Performs well. Give the Genisis some time. I'll keep my wifes 03 Avalon with KYB GR2 struts and Energy sway bar bushings, and 31 MPG. Totally different car after the changes. Big change in feel when we replaced the standard 15" wheels with the 16? summer mags too. Fun now. Details in the Avalon forum.

prema1

I was a life-long BMW driver. I had a 325, 328 and most recently a 330Ci. I was looking at upgrading to a BMW 550i, when I decided to test-drive a Lexus GS460.

I was totally blown away by the Lexus. Superior build quality, superior handling (with the standard active suspension on the GS460), better steering experience, much more intuitive user interface (I love the touch screen), and much more engaging styling inside and out (matter of taste but comparing them back to back, the BMW design seemed outdated).

I should comment more on the handling. I am a performance driver. I used to take my 330 to the track. What impressed me about BMW historically is that the suspension is good in almost every setting. Other cars are tuned either for comfort but don't corner well (Benz E500, Genesis) or for performance but give you a jarring ride on bumpy roads (Infiniti M45, Audi A6). BMW 550 has a great balance of comfortable but performance oriented ride. However the GS460 is much better. The cornering experience is much superior due to the active suspension which holds it flat in sports mode. You really feel like you can throw the car around and engage the curves. In comfort mode, the car deals with the bumpy city streets much better than the BMW without losing its basic sportiness. Coming from a BMW330Ci (one of BMWs best non-M cars) I was blown away by the Lexus driving experience compared to BMW.

The other factor was the electronics. I found the BMW iDrive totally distracting. In my old car tuning the satellite radio was really a pain. I love the intuitiveness of the Lexus touch screen. It's no iPhone, but to draw an analogy, the Lexus feels like using an iPhone while the BMW feels like using a Windows Mobile phone. They deliver almost the same functionality, but the Lexus system is so much easier and more pleasant to use.

The only downside with the Lexus is the factory tires are not as good as those on the 550 if the 550 comes with Pilotsport 2s. I just upgraded the tires on the Lexus to Michelin PilotSport 2s and that closed the gap. With these tires the Lexus is smooth, grippy (strikingly so in the rain) and has great road feel.

tayl0rd

... BMW 550 has a great balance of comfortable but performance oriented ride. However the GS460 is much better. The cornering experience is much superior due to the active suspension which holds it flat in sports mode. ...

You do know that the ('08+) 550i Sport has Active Roll Stabilization (ARS)? It's the same concept as the Lexus system you're praising. You must not've been driving the 550i Sport or it was older than '08.

rjj718

I leased a 2009 Genesis Sedan (V 8 with techno package) a week ago yesterday. Today (with less than 500 miles on the vehicle) I was driving it down Alligator Alley in Fla, two hours from home, in the middle of an afternoon rainstorm. Suddenly, with no warning, things just went off -- lights, dashboard lights, windshield wipers, window controls, door lock controls, all air conditioning. It was raining so hard I couldn't see. If it had been dark, and without lights of any kind and no wipers, I would have been dead. The hazard lights wouldn't even work. It was a miracle that I made it (slowly and stressfully) to my exit, but the car totally died a mile from home and had to be pushed off the road. Has this happened to anyone? Does anybody have any idea what this could be? Perhaps I got a lemon. I sold a Mercedes to get into this car, and up to now I was very happy with it.

55396

No clue here, but I would be interested in hearing about your Mercedes experience in view of their reliability problems with models after say, 2000. What year and model did you have? Any reason other than price for not buying another?

rjj718

I bought the R350 in March of 2006. The vehicle was a dream for long distance/interstate travel, which I do a lot of in my business, and roomy for transporting customers and their luggage, etc, from the airport. The third row seats were rarely used as they were rather cramped. People loved the sunroof that extended over the back seat. In-town driving was sluggish and rather ponderous. I should have gotten the more powerful engine. I had to get rid of the vehicle because of ongoing problems with the electrical system. The navigation/sound system display panel, while beautiful, was a problem. It had to be replaced 3 times. The navigation system itself wasn't great and therefore rarely used. Air conditioner control buttons stripped out on a regular basis, despite careful handing, and had to be replaced several times. There were other problems with the air conditioner--it totally went out on me twice, which is a misery in South Florida. I went through 3 batteries in 3 years, which is not normal in my opinion. The interior had some minor appearance problems -- the tabs on the air conditioner vents broke, seat belt covers fell off, the steering wheel was a nice wood but the parts of it coated in sliver flaked off. My local service center was fine, and all of these problems were voluntarily serviced under warranty, except for the batteries, but for the last year I had the car they eliminated the Mercedes loaner program and switched to Enterprise rentals. For what you pay for a Mercedes you really don't want to have to drive a Focus stinking of stale cigarette smoke around town while all of these issues are attended to. Any of this sound familiar?

55396

"Any of this sound familiar?"

Yes, that's why I asked. I wondered if they had gotten their act together. How could Mercedes have sunk this far? More importantly, why haven't corrected their quality problems after all these years? Between them and the American car companies, they have made it a walk in the park for the Asian manufacturers to become dominant. Shame on them. Now they're paying the price. Arrogance can do that.

bmlexus

After reading the above 2messages, I found 1more reason to trust lexus.

I was expecting the hyundai genesis to be a nice car, but what can I say now.

allmet33

Hey...bmlexus...have you driven one personally or are you simply going by other people's opinions???

No...the Genesis isn't a BMW, nor is it a Lexus...however...for the money you spend and what you get for the money, it's not merely a nice car....it's a great car (for the money). Can't touch anything like it for the money!

The first mistake folks make (imho) is they are expecting it to be just like a BMW, Benz, Infiniti or Lexus. Early on, it was stated that the 5-Series and E-Class were the benchmark of the Genesis. That merely means that those were the cars that set the standard that Hyundai was shooting for when they created the Genesis. Considering this is Hyundai's first attempt...I think they did remarkably well. Take one for a spin and you'll see what I mean.

55396

"I was expecting the hyundai genesis to be a nice car, but what can I say now. "

It might be prudent to see if there is a pattern here and if so, how they stand behind it. Probably not wise to condemn on one report. Probably not my cup of tea, but I'm impressed how they came of the cellar on their first attempts, zoomed right past American companies and rose to the top of the quality ratings. I give credit where credit is due.

tjc78

I found 1more reason to trust lexus.

If you read on here and on the "genesisowners.com" website you will find that the vast majority of Genesis owners have had little or no problems with their Genesis. Mine has been problem free except for an alignment issue (not the car's fault) and one loose clip on a dashboard trim piece.

The Genesis is not a perfect car, but, like others have mentioned a lot of car for the money. I could think of a few improvements... but that could be said of ANY car.

55396

My impression is the same. I wrote the 528 off my list. Totally different experience. Thrashy, far less performance. Only the 535 for me.

Still, my 03 Avalon gets up to 31 MPG runnung 80 with a load. 27-29 is more typical if windy etc. though. I would take a hit there with the 5 Series. Guess the fun factor would have to make up for it, but after upgrading the suspension, I don't feel I'm missing much there either (See 04 and earlier AV & suspension mods).

I just tried out a Cad STS AWD V8. Rather drive the AV, but the STS felt much heavier. Guess the ES 350 is still top of the list as I can always do the same suspension upgrade on that with KYB GR2 struts and Energy sway bar bushings.