2009 Toyota Venza Crossover

stickguy

I understand why they do it. What annoys me (and unlike Honda) is they give you a nice shiny brochure showing all the wonderful packages they offer. In theory (or maybe another part of the country?)

At least Honda is consistant. You might not like it, but at least they don't bait and switch you!

kdhspyder

It's just different ways of doing business. The regional preferencing system seems to work for Toyota so they keep it. The no-options different-trim-levels seems to work for Honda so they keep that one. The domestics allowed upwards of 100,000 different permutations per vehicle, that hasn't seemed to work for them so they are changing it.

In the case of the Toyota regional system it's simply a matter of communication. Now that you're aware of the system I'm sure that next visit you will ask 'which options packages and options are offered' in your locality.

roho1

!00,000 permutations per vehicle may be possible but I doubt they are really available. Unless of course your willing to wait 3 -6 months.

I shopped a GM vehicle before buying my Toyota and the dealers have a system where if they don't have a vehicle in stock they can go on line and look at other dealers inventory to see if the car with the options your looking for is available. If one is, then the dealers arrange a swap for the customer. I never asked but does Toyota offer this service to their customers?

Another disturbing thing about the Toyota regional system is they offer different rebates depending on where you live. I saw a national ad on TV once and went in to my local Toyota dealer and asked about the $1000 rebate and they looked at me crosseyed. I was informed that was only available in LA. I live in the SE. Another example of customer indifference.

md_outback

Hi roho1,
In my experiences with Toyota, most dealers have friendly relationships and will swap cars when needed to get a sale. Of course, when vehicles are in short supply or there is a particularly coveted model, a dealer may not always be willing to part with it, hoping to sell it on their own. There may be an extra charge to transport a car from a distant dealer, but that's always negotiable if the dealer wants the sale bad enough. Also, I know that Southeast Toyota is a very large franchise that controls Toyota sales in Florida, GA, NC, SC and Alabama. They have been known to have some very different marketing methods and incentives than other Toyota regional distributors. They sell a lot of cars (20% of Toyota's total US volume), so they get to do what they want.

Best way to buy a car is to request an email quote from several dealers in your area. Let them begin to bid against each other to get your best deal, you don't have to leave home and you don't have the hassle of dealing with a car sales person in the flesh. Of course, I doubt there will be much bargaining room on new Venzas for at least a few months after they are readily available.

kdhspyder

Yes this DX is done by every dealer all over the country. We used to do 20-50 DX's a week.

As to the pricing formulas that's specifically why Toyota has different regions. Some are more intense ( LA for example ) in competition so it takes different incentives to move the iron.

SET has a whole 'nother system because that area is run by an independent distributorship, JMA. JMA is not part of Toyota, it can do whatever it wants as long as it moves the iron. BTW, I also live in SET but I work in CAT ( Toyota-owned distributorship area ).

joeblack1

Best way to buy a car is to request an email quote from several dealers in your area.

Actually, the best way is to request an email quote from dealers outside of your area as well. Yes, you do have to deal with transportation costs, but it opens up a lot more options. And even though there may be transport costs and or time, you still may be ahead of the game. Some sites, such as www.carmax.com and www.fitzmall.com will actually post their prices and they are often quite good and in most cases they are hard to beat. Even eBay often has new cars. If you look right now, you will find brand new Toyotas for example.s

joeblack1

First Venza just rolled off the Line

radiowave

Heh. You would think someone who calls themselves an "Auto Writer" would know the difference between a V-4 and an inline 4.

Do any of you experienced Toyota buyers have an opinion on first year build quality? I bought a first year BMW once and the thing creaked and rattled like an old wooden sailing ship. However, my inlaws bought a first year Lexus and the thing is as solid as could be. I would imagine this is an area that Toyota/Lexus gets right, right?

Thanks,
Paul

ecotrklvr

If you'll accept first-year Renters as well, then I can vouch for quality. Have rented 2008 Highlander and 2009 Matrix in their first 6 months of production. While they both came from a Toyota Dealer, I was impressed. That's for Japan-made and Canada-made. Kentucky-made may be another story, but that's for others to comment.

md_outback

Hey radiowave,
While I probably wouldn't buy a first year car from most manufacturers (especially Audi, but that's another sad personal story), I wouldn't worry about a first year Toyota or Honda product. Not that Toyota is perfect, they got off to a rough start with the new Tundra pickup bult in Texas. But the Georgetown Kentucky plant has been building Camrys and Avalons for years. And the Venza, while a new vehicle, is using a lot of existing (and proven) technology. In my opinion, building Lexus cars has helped Toyota to learn much about eliminating squeaks and rattles typically found in early production cars. Below is an interesting link that shows vehicle production stats from the Kentucky plant. Venzas are slowly coming off the line.

http://www.toyotageorgetown.com/pdfs/prod/prodresults.pdf

MD

howie305

I had only seen pictures until yesterday. They have one at the South Fla Auto Show. It looks good but it's smaller than I thought. More like a Mazda CX7 than the Murano I have been looking at. It was the 4 cyl which they said would not be available until February. They would not let you get in it, said the 6 cyl would be at the dealerships Nov 15.

wstevec

For those of you have have tried to configured a Venza on the Toyota web site and noticed that you have to have at least $4000 + worth of "Options" I was informed that this is how they will arrrieve at the dealers. For those of us wanting to stay under $30K and still get a V6 and All Wheel Drive (I think the MSRP is something like $29.2), you can special order it that way. The Toyota rep said the timeframe would be between 6 and 8 weeks for a special order which I feel is much better than wasting $4000+ on options I would not want. Just my $.02 worth.

md_outback

Thanks, that's good to know. And even if you don't want a Venza with zero options, a special order may allow you to order just a couple of individual options without buying the larger, more costly "package." The link below lists individual option pricing.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/presstxt/2009toyotakit/2009Venza_r3.pdf

mary99

I thought there was no 'special order' of Toyotas and Hondas. Did a dealer tell you that? I figured they tell you that to get you to wait while eventually one will roll out configured how you want it and they can arrange to get it for you.

roho1

Special order?

Unless Toyota has totally changed their business plan as has been discussed here in multiple posts, that won't happen. Another example of salesman misinformation. Unless of course you live in a "special" region. What state do you live in? All us disgruntled former buyers will be flocking there.

md_outback

Could be Toyota is adjusting their special order practices for the Venza. In a Nov. 3, 2008 press release announcing Venza prices, Toyota states "Venza will use a single grade strategy with simplified packages and stand-alone options that will include an impressive list of comfort and utility features." Also, if you view the online Venza brochure, every page has the following fine print at the bottom: "This vehicle eBrochure is designed to identify vehicles commonly available in your area. If you would prefer to purchase a vehicle with no options or additional options, please contact your local dealer to check for current availability or the possibility of placing an order for such a vehicle." Not exactly saying that they definitely will accept special orders, but maybe they will.

kdhspyder

Yes this is precisely it. It takes some open communication with a dealer with some savoir faire. It you run into a high pressure 'Buy it now off the lot' you might not get the time of day. If you have a good relationship with someone at a dealer with a long term view toward keeping customers coming back then your request will have better traction.

As in all business relationships having a good open dialogue with someone you trust pays dividends. My customers will be able to get just about whatever they want if it's possible.

rcf8000

The Venza is very similar to a Volvo XC70 in dimensions, ground clearance, and cargo capacity. So I don't think Toyota can say that they've come up with anything new.

wstevec

I was told you could special order by a Toyota Rep on the online chat available on the company web site. Altough the dealers would prefer you buy off the lot (with options you don't want and at a higher price) they will special order, Being in a Depression, they will take any business they can get. By the way, my wife special ordered a Rav 4 a few years ago, and it took less than 2 months and it came from Japan, so a Venza from KY should take less.

rexf

I just used Edmunds New Car Comparisons tool to line up the Venza AWD next to the Highlander AWD (base vehicle, not the Limited or Sport). It's not an exact match because equipment levels vary between the two base vehicles, but from the size, headroom, weight, space standpoint, my question is, what was the point? These two vehicles are extremely close in every measurement (as one would expect, since they are built on the same platform). That said, the article states that the Venza shares nary an interior or exterior feature with the Highlander. I will be very interested in the reactions of you consumers when you go to a dealership and compare the two vehicles first hand and drive them both. BTW, my 1995 Camry LE V6 Wagon now has 171,000 mostly trouble free miles on it and I have long bemoaned the demise of the Camry Wagon. But did we need this?

mary99

I'm almost right in the middle of their target demographic with this car, maybe a little young at 43. I don't want an SUV for a few reasons, and Highlander is an SUV. I don't want a third row seat and out where I live nearly all the Highlanders have them. I want to see these special pet-friendly accessories they supposedly are making for the Venza. Also, to get a Highlander with the amenities of the 'base' Venza (dual climate control and such) would I need to buy the top trim level with leather and 4wd and 6cyl? I want FWD, 4cyl, cloth and SmartKey.

I thought the Venza was built on the Camry platform? The Highlander is, too?

kdhspyder

The big picture is that the large BOF SUVs of the past 20 yrs are all but dead. The Sequoia and the 4Runner will be much smaller in volume than they were at the beginning of this decade. The same is true for all the vehicle makers.

The Highlander will be designed to appeal to those that need larger vehicles that can carry up to 7 comfortably and directed to buyers that normally expect to pay $35000 -$45000+ for their vehicles ( ex-Sequoia buyers ).

The Venza will only seat 5 at the most. It will be upscale as opposed to the RAV4 which also seats 5 and it will have a much nicer ride and performance than the RAV4 which remains the entry-level vehicle.

When the vehicles are priced with 'normal' options I think that we will find the following..
..RAV4 .......... $24000 - $26000
..Venza ..........$28000 - $32000
..Highlander ... $32000 - $45000

These $2000 - $4000 price strata are huge for the bulk of the population. One of Toyota's best marketing strategies is to offer good solid options across a wide spectrum of prices. Thus by having the Venza in place between the other two it means that it can sell all the Highlanders at $32000 and more. The Venza acts to support the pricing on the Highlander. It makes the Highlander more profitable, it doesn't have to be sold now at $26000 or $28000. The Venza is a very very attractive option for utility buyers who might not need 7 passenger seating so they don't want to pay $32000 - $35000. But $28000 is right in the middle of their budget expectations.

kdhspyder

Essentially yes the Camry, Avalon, Highlander, Venza, ES350, RX350 are all based on the Camry platform with modifications. That's just for N America.

briegel

What do you mean by "That's just for N America."?

kdhspyder

Those are just the NA models. There are similar models like the Crown and Harrier that use the same platform but in Asia and Australia.

joeblack1

www.fitzmall.com

md_outback

Thanks for the info. Did you notice that the vehicles in the Gathersburg, MD location were listed at a few hundred $ below MSRP while the one in PA was listed at nearly $5000 below MSRP. I'm guessing that was a typo (or it fell off the truck when it was unloaded).

chetwood

http://www.carsdirect.com/build/style?make=TO&modelid=817&zipcode=20874&trim_gro- ups=front-wheeldrive2.7l,all-wheeldrive2.7l,front-wheeldrivev6,all-wheeldrivev6,

roho1

I see Toyota has tacked on a destination surcharge to my region even though the price of oil has been cut in half. Not nice.

mary99

About those "Toyota Associated Pet Products"... I've seen some pics now and they're just aftermarket items you can buy anywhere and stick in any car at all. It's the same stuff that's been available forever. So this is more of a marketing angle than anything new.

tourguide

I'm going to have to sit in this car and see if it meets our needs. If so, then I'm going to HAVE to be able to get it for slightly over invoice or it is probably not worth it for us. Other than a SLIGHT bump in fuel economy there is nothing here that is substantially more attractive than a Highlander. In fact it has less cargo room. They don't have memory seats, and no native iPod interface, no heated and cooled seats. I know they were trying to hit a price point, but come on - these are some key features in a modern vehicle.

joeblack1

I agree. I am looking forward to at least sitting in one. Then, I plan to wait as well. I'm a patient man. I will want to see close to invoice as well on the I4. That may mean I will have to wait until late spring or early summer. As long as my old Suburban holds out. I do disagree a little about the Highlander. The one thing I personally didn't like about the Highlander is the foot well protrudes into the gas pedal area too much for me. I know this probably doesn't bother most people, but it is a biggie for me. I know the Rav4 is much better in this regard as it has a little space there. If it is a problem with this car, then it is off my list. Otherwise though, this car is everything I'm looking for. I really liked the Ford Edge aside from the gas mileage and the Interior styling. The Venza address both of those issues very nicely for me.

higgledy

I like the exterior of the Venza but it is pricey and option pkgs are sky high.

player4

I agree, option packages run the price up way high...

wstevec

Not to try to sell you, but you can special order and get what you want, rather than the default option packages you get on the Toyota site when you try to build one which start at $4500. Use the build on the Edmunds site instead which lets you order what you want. If I get a Venza, I plan on going with the Comfort Package (LS) which gives you leather interior including steering wheel and shift knob, wood interior, heated mirrors (needed for New England) and windshield de-icer (whatever that is??) all for $2100 (list) and $1689 (invoice) which you should be able to get for some price in the middle or lower. FYI: special orders will take from 6 to 8 weeks. Just my $.02 worth.

mary99

Edmunds lists the Convenience Package as $860 MSRP. Toyota lists it as $1430. The Toyota site also lists it as the only option available on the FWD 4cyl.

Usually I see Edmunds display a nice array of options possibilities that don't really exist in reality.

roho1

I'm not aware Toyota, especially in certain regions offers special orders.

see post #240

But then again kdhspyder(a Toyota employee) said if your nice enough to him he can get you most anything!

player4

Yea but i wonder of you could still get a deal when you pre-order your Venza, just like the same kind of deal you would get if you bought one off the lot.
Wish you could even go pick it up from the plant,heck the plant is only 1 hr and 30 mins away from me, might as well.

mary99

Wouldn't it be nice if you could avoid that big destination charge by picking it up at the plant?

I see now that the Toyota configurator does say to inquire about special ordering other combinations of options. I never consider ordering because I don't want to pay MSRP. I think buying from dealer inventory down the road saves you thousands. But if you're an early adopter and planning on paying MSRP anyway, why not order I guess?

I wish Honda had a SmartKey. Is it possible to get something like that aftermarket?

wstevec

Sorry about that Mary, meant to list the "Comfort Package" code: LS

kdhspyder

Yes, we can.

Actually there are some packages and some stand-alone extras. This discussion always occurs at the time of a new launch. Initially the first vehicles always ( from every vehicle maker ) are shipped with all the options. Then more basic units come a little later. Then as the buying preferences of the public become clearer the option packages and individual options become modified to match demand.

Since these are made in KY there is somewhat more flexibility.

I just went through our region's 'ride and drive' earlier this week. It included base model and loaded Venza's ( all V6's ), a Murano, a CX7 and an Edge. Initial impressions..
..the Venza is the biggest inside;
..the Murano is the quietest but it's not much on 'guts' due to the CVT, but the front cabin almost claustrophobic;
..the CX7 with the turbo I4 may be the 'bargain' but it also is lacking in 'guts' ..and room;
..the Edge will be the natural competitor volume-wise and price-wise.

PLUS:
The new Gen6 Navi is A LOT better than the previous iterations.
SKS is such a brilliant idea.
The leather in the Venza is nicer than that in the Camry and as nice but sportier than that in the Avalon.
There's tons of room for 'stuff' in the back along with Avalon-type room for the rear passengers.
The rear seating is shaped and feels like the front seating.
The front console is very smartly done, it's useful, ergonomic, and it looks good IMO.

tourguide

I'm planning to give one of these a whirl when the time comes, but do you think there will be dealers out there who are willing to approach invoice on these autos? I know for our family it will be important to at least come close to that kind of price point in order for this to be a value.

wstevec

Another positive about the Venza is that its being built in Kentucky which will help keep people working in this country. Maybe not a deciding factor for many, but at least something to consider.

kdhspyder

That's all supply and demand. If the public loves it and buys them all up then no, near invoice deals will be few and far between. The plans are to build about 50000 to 75000 of the Venza's. Here is a good view of availability. There are ~1250 Toyota stores in NA. That means that each store on average should sell 40-60 units annually, that's 4-5 per month.

Now not every store is 'average'. Longo Toyota for example is 5 to 10 times bigger than most other stores all by itself. IOW your local small town Toyota store may have 2-3 vehicles available per month. If an 'average' store is getting 2-3 monthly and they are being snapped up right away....

The pricing is nothing more than a reflection of supply and demand.

rogeliov

Not that type of "special order" if it's not on the menu it ain't happening.

rogeliov

Toyota will price the five person wagon between $25,975 for its V-4, front-wheel drive model,......
V4???? even the writers are dumb.

joshuag

Have you checked out the Ford Flex. I have been reading some really good reports on them, and the styling is very different then the average suv, wagon, whatever you want to call it.

In fact, in the new Car and Driver, one of the editors took his wife and three kids on a 1,300 mile trip and him and his family loved the car. I think it said that he averaged 24 mpg, and it looks so much more classy that the venza. And remember, consumer reports has Ford ahead in reliability than Toyota now.

roho1

I checked Consumers Reports after your comment and find the Edge is a mediocre 8th and 13th in the mid suv category.

#1 Honda Pilot, #2 Toyota 4 runner, #3 Toyota Highlander.

wstevec

The Toyota rep (on the company's web site) told me otherwise and special orders require 6 to 8 weeks. Besides, in this depression is any car company going to turn away business :confuse:

joshuag

I was talking about the Flex. And overall company to company, they are ahead in reliability through consumer reports.