Suzuki Grand Vitara (2009 - current)
Talk about '09 and newer Suzuki Grand Vitaras here.
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Specs of the single greatest improvement for '09?, the "All things old are new again" [***IDEA***] to bring back a FOUR CYLINDER engined "Vitara" model, (my name for it), include it's anti vibration balance shaft and new variable port fuel induction system. Maybe just fancy soundin' stuff there on paper, up until you get in and drive one and discover the overall goodness this imparts "to the seat of the pants". Along with other upgrades, this sophisticated new engine further helps contribute to a 30% NVH reduction in the cabin for '09.
While I want to see further confirmation of this from more than just one source, I saw a new(er) road test of a four speed auto 4cyl the other day, which claimed its zero to 60mph acceleration even slightly bettered the outgoing 2.7 litre six by about two tenths of a second. This is the same auto equipped 4cyl which has been criticized by some journalists for not having a five speed [auto] available, while the outgoing 2.7 liter auto WAS a five speed auto... (Saw Suzuki may add a five speed auto to the 4cyl by 2011, or?). Still, why not sooner regardless, along with a manual 5 spd. in a four mode four wheel drive 4 cyl JX model ASAP.
As "NGV old timer forum posters" , (taking the liberty of speaking for xostnot too?), our chief interest lies in attracting new '09 owners into participating here so we can sit back and learn [from you] how the new '09's are "measuring up" in day to day usage...
Rear disc brakes
Redesigned rear suspension
Grille has recessed horizontal lines
Scallops added around foglights
"Bosses" around foglights are wider
More sound insulation
Better under-hood blanket
Thicker glass in front side windows
Improved door weatherstripping
Time/Temp/Mileage info in led screen in instrument cluster
Subwoofer in place where time/temp/mileage used to be
Side curtain airbags will deploy in rollover
Some models have turn signals on mirrors
I thought it would be appropriate to start this topic with a list of changes. Feel free to add the ones I can't remember!
I agree with norwoodsman that it will be interesting to see how the '09 fares. My curiosity is whether they've fixed the various problems, large and small, that most of us have had to some degree. It seems clear that the '06-'08 GV failed to carve out a sizable portion of the cuv pie, and this very mild update isn't enough to change that. The Rav4 and Forester just had updates, and the Tucson probably will be updated within a year.
My disappointment with the '09 is that there still is no model tweaked for off-road use. Sheesh, even Chrysler saw fit to do such a model of the Patriot.
2.4l = 11.7s manual, 12.0 auto (11.7s is everywhere but saw also 10.2s in auto123 but in the blog they corrected to 11.2s )
2.7l = 9.0 s manual, 9.3s auto
3.2l = 9.3 s
Xostnot's prior maintenance concerns re: here in snow country with "grit", road deicing chemicals, etc., and the affects of same on those new rear discs, is something to ponder. Still, like the other safety improvements available from '06 on, seems the trade offs ought to be worth it? The braking performance of an '09 certainly "feels good" on the road.
In your "inventory rich" environment back east there bm000092, what's what now? Here [locally] we have a log jam of '08's which seems to be preventing the dealer from ordering in a good representative sampling of the various new '09 model configurations. (Actually, same question to you xostnot).... Just one '09 on the lot here.
While late to the plate historically in certain areas, presently Suzuki's #1 miss seems [to me] to be it's lack of sufficiently creative fresh marketing ideas to help clear out those '08's. Like what? For instance, take the current clear out of Mazda's class leading "3" model, before the arrival of the new 2010's in Feb. Besides low starting prices there is factory stackable cash, (ya, Suzuki's got lots of that), BUT Mazda also offers 2.9%/60 months financing, (4.9 for other terms), as opposed to Suzuki's "it's either/or ONLY" scenario. PLUS, (yes, there's still more), 90 days till your first payment! Bottom line with out many cash only customers out there these days?, and plenty of '08's left [here anyway], well.... Also there seems to be few sufficiently "market climate savvy incentives" available on the '09's either. As nothing other than maybe a Mazda 3 is selling like hot cakes right now?, I don't get it....
My own impressions ? Yes they are quieter, which I liked, brakes are better, not by much but you can feel it (being alone in the car, rear more below).
I've been twice in an emergency situation where I needed to slam the brakes on my 06, first time being alone there was no problem, braking power is adequat with drums in that situation, the second time we were 5 + the dog inside and I had a 2000 lbs pop-up trailer, I felt the rear brakes giving up pretty quickly (in less than 4 seconds), I was about to pull on the right side of the road in order to not hit the preceeding car, and I had a good distance. I see there a good improvement in safety with disk, no question. However like Xostnot ( may be I'm from old school or had bad experience with maintenance fee of rear disk brakes) I favor drums (sic) mostly because I want to keep it for about 10 years. Being a 3 years purchase I would go for disks (it's only personal).
Engine wise, in the past they all said that the 2.7L was loud and sluggish and had vibrations. Yes when new the 2.4l feels more refined and I guess it can only improved, just like my 2.7l did. Today after 3 years and 45K kms, this 2.7 is smooth and I like it very much, (personaly again I wouldn't see myself with the 2.4l, it really has less power and I wouldn't see myself pulling my trailer with it), the 3.2l is the one that I would go with, new it feels as good as my 2.7l, so when properly roaded it must be a charm. Not pulling anything the 2.4l is really effective, then it would be my choice, I'm not buying a race car but a capable 4x4 (not a rock climbing one).
Finally it is always personal, the old one with it 2.7l, the new ones with the 2.4l or 3.2l are fine vehicules. I need to go some places for fishing that I wouldn't see myself with another vehicule, but my main use of 4x4 is winter, and they all perform as almost no other one can. We had 30cm of snow yesterday and the GV is so good. I learned over the 3 past year how to drive it, be carefull and the electronics do all the fine job, go wild and the electronics leave you all the control (they shut down) and if you have skills, the GV let them shine, it is so easy to control.
One last thing, for normal driving (ie 99% of the time) the noise level being lower is great with the new one, the other 1% when you go wild is pretty satisfying with the old one, you can ear and fell all the mechanic, which can also be a good thing
Hey here is a good video about the 3.2l:
When I said "wild" be sure you won't never be a danger to anyone else, please.
In conclusion what is great (the 08 and 09 being available) is that actually there is one for everyones needs, pick the one that is right for you, they have their pros and cons. I wouldn't change mine, when you get one that doesn't have any problems, keep it, every brand have their lemons and their good ones regardless or their models (yes even Toyota, ask me about it).
Next, the brakes. From the design, I'd expect discs to cool better and for the braking effect to initiate more abruptly. I've never had brakes overheat to the point of losing effectiveness. We've never towed a trailer, but we do come down 4000' vertical descents on rough logging roads. I try to use the engine/transmission to lower the load on the brakes. Another risk is that these trips sometimes include fording shallow streams, which can crack or warp hot drums and discs.
Anyway, I too await comparative testing of the disc/drum and disc/disc setups.
As part of an attempt to get Suzuki to resolve our squealing brakes, they took photos of our front discs and rear drums. The inside swept surfaces of the front rotors are significantly rusted, after only 30,000km. In contrast, the insides of the rear drums are shiny grey like new. They theorize that this rust is causing the noise, so they're going to replace the pads and turn the discs. I hate to think of what the rear brakes would look like if they were discs, the effect of deep rust on braking, and the cost to maintain them.
Lastly, I dealt with the noise level by lining the doors and most of the floor and rear quarter panels with automotive acoustic insulation. I also added weatherstripping around the doors. Such as along the bottom edges to seal them off, and in the notch where the rear door meets the front door, and down past the front door hinges. Overall the difference is quite noticable. Today I was wondering why I couldn't hear any noise from the brand-new snow tires.
Speaking of Land Rovers, the other day a Range Rover fishtailed out of control on a snowy and slushy highway. I was about to overtake it, so I was going faster. As it lurched back and forth, it lost speed fairly rapidly. When it ended up sitting broadside to me in my lane, I had to brake a bit hard to avoid running into it. No problem. Stupid Range Rover driver. So I blew my squeaky little horn at it just for a laugh, and continued on my way. Don't those cheapo things have any stability control?
But we found the CRV boring. So did someone else who works where the wife does, (we found out later), who happened to td one around Christmastime too, and had the same impression we did. Guess I expected it to be more Accord like in feel, but it was certainly not. Great awd system though, and impressively long service intervals aided by that superb Honda engineering. But.....
Went to a Zuke dealership in "a bigger settlement" hereabouts this weekend, and likewise [like here] that dealer had no base 4cyl GV's either. At least the log jam?, (the '08 GVs), are finally moving now thanks to EXCELLENT factory support, which probably even exceeds the internet buying service posted incentives. For instance, here an '08 JX auto box four mode was priced (in the windshield at the dealer), at $20,900Cdn last week!, (plus freight and pdi). Wouldn't have been surprised if it actually went for a bit less too, (it sold). Surely now is a great time to pick up any leftover '08's if one were so inclined. Have to admit to being tempted, but... South, one auction service in the US is even advertising new '08 JLX's, (it looked like), on ebay, for $18,500.00US, on what was called a "Dealer overstock sale". Whoa...
Picked up an '09 brochure at that other dealership on the weekend, and noted something I had not seen before re: the base 4cyl JA. The five speed manual shift mechanism has also been upgraded for '09, with improved performance, feel, and vibration damping. That again reinforces my idea that it oughta be the most fun GV to drive on road with that lively new four cylinder mill. Couple that with all the safety features, and it seems it might represent a good compromise as an all around driver, if one could avoid doing some of the more extreme stuff out there, (he continued to rationalize).... Still a JX with the four mode 4wd and a manual box, (not available in that config.), would be the logical jack of all trades at the most reasonable price. It remains incredible to me that Suzuki repeats this error of omission each and every time there is an important new intro of an all new or significantly improved 4wd model here in North America. Yes, the 4cyl auto works well, but we want choice.
Only way to find/test drive a base 4cyl awd JA, seems to be to leave the woods for the coast where some of 'em must be sitting on the dock next to a dealership there. Someone want to post a shot of all of them sitting on a warf in Vancouver? Wonder if Suzuki may be limiting supply on purpose to try to keep the prices up, sans their biting the bullet by offering more competitive incentives now, or is it that no one is buying anything now, so.....?
Suzuki's incentives seem to come out the latest of any mfgr's, around the 14th of the month here in the great white north, and are only good [therefore] for a limited time, (current posted offers expire Feb. 2nd for instance). And so we wait again, until Valentines day this time. Will Suzuki be sending us a Valentine in the form of enhanced incentives [then] on the '09's? It works for me....
ROOF RACK for a "flat topped" base '09JA, or one of the '08 to '06 JA''s: anyone ever figure out what you can use?
Absurdly, (to me), Suzuki doesn't offer its so called "roof rails" on the base JA, thus excluding it's own customers from being able to even buy a Suzuki roof rack. AND the aftermarket folks seem to only make the "fixed point feet", (plastic foot covers at least?), contoured to fit in conjunction with JX models and above, with their "roof rails". Just how much would it cost the customer if Suzuki chose to simply add those two longitudinal pieces on to the sticker price on every one of these chiefly recreation oriented vehicles? Put another way, is it worth the cost to Suzuki NOT to include 'em as standard equipment? Again, just think of the lost profit on those Suzuki racks for instance. Crazy.
Still I've noted what look like four sliding covers on the flat top roofed JA at fix points?, beneath which one oughta to be able to attach [something]. If that is, any aftermarket mfgr. makes something compatible now?
Back to your Thule "feet" looks like they come with "L" brackets which are bolted to the fix points, then the plastic contoured "cover", (if I've got this right?), contours over the top of those rails? Or is that plastic part its self load bearing too onto those roof rails? Probably is I'd guess? Guessing [further] that's the adaptation you made? Anyway that's the latest setup for a roof rail equipped GV on the Thule website. Not an immediate issue here for me, but good to nail this down for any other "JA" prospects out there.
You can use them to fit on the rails the ski rack, bike rack and cargo box.
There is a contact phone number to get further details. These tubular rails are advertised as being able to integrate directly with round Yakima rack fittings, but you can get adapters to use Thule equipment as well. Looks like a very good setup. If I'd known about this sooner, I might even have made an offer on one of the "new" '08 JA's here, before they were "shipped out" somewhere else. But the manual 5 speed '09 JA, (when the price incentives are right), would be my first choice anyway. Again it's very hard to imagine how ANYONE who was buying any GV model, (including a JA), would not want/need a roof rack. Fortunately the aftermarket has stepped up here re: the JA. Suzuki sure as heck ought to come up with their own accessory rails, (like these), and sell them as an accessory for base JA's. Uh, I think that's called common sense....?
Good exercise here, hope this helps someone out, (maybe myself included), as we continue to figure out what to do.
Have to guess in other markets Suzuki makes similar, (similar to Rocky Roads'), roof rails available for base JA's. Why else have those fix point bolt holes up there? Just another "loop hole" Suzuki needs to plug, (I'll repeat), by making their own, (or outsourced ones), roof rails AVAILABLE in the accessory catalog for the JA.
Thanks again, bm000092, think we've done a public service with this [definitive?] info for JA owners. Anyone else please log on in if you've got other '06-'09 JA relevant info on this subject.... Of course all this assumes the bolt holes are exactly the same for all '06's-'08's, [and on the new '09] JA's. Have to guess they would be.
Most notable impression aside from the improved feel and function of the operation of the upgraded manual shift mechanism, [NICE] is, (in comparison to a loaded JLX we tried a few months back), just how well that auto box works, despite its being "only" a 4 speed rather than a more trendy and fuel efficient 5 speed "slush-ie". But the JA with manual is the mileage champ "pick of the litter", so... So maybe the VERY best thing about it is how it just loafs along at 2,800 rpm's in 5th gear @ 100kph on the open road, thanks to the new 4 cyl engine.
As to how it all works in the JA config., maybe not surprisingly the lesser torque of the engine becomes more noticeable when one has direct control over it with the manual transmission. Maybe it's the different gearing ratios, the different drive train configuration, (or whatever???), but in an auto box equipped one, the acceleration of the new 4cyl feels much more seamlessly linear vs. what, (pre engine break in anyway), seems possible to achieve whilst rowing through the gears, (even with that very nice new manual box'es noticeable improvements). Still, having made that comparison, lets segue to the new Forester, (which we also drove a while back). By comparison it's manual box felt somewhat vague and "notchy". While we're on the Forester, again pre break in it's engine seemed rougher than the Suzuki's too. But before I go too far afield here, the road manners of the two are not comparable, with the Forester obviously performing just as one would expect given it's car based design, (like a car). It's steering performance and flat cornering abilities in particular, are VERY impressive. But it seems [here] the chief question is, which one would you rather be sitting in when the going gets really tough out there? Advantage Suzuki.
What about out on the road? The "notorious" (for wear and otherwise), OEM Bridgestones, seemed to reveal one of their deficiencies in the area of tracking ability, (ability to keep to a straight line ahead), at speed on the highway. To be fair, we've had some "pavement issues" here, (uh, it's Winter), and while concentrating on the road and the vehicle @ 100kph, I didn't have time to see if some subtle deformation of the road surface might have had something to do with a slight tendency of 'em to want to "wander" slightly off course... Still in transient maneuvers at speed, (a rapid lane change), they did provide sure and predictable grip on a slightly wet road surface, something which also has to be seen likely as a further tribute to the '09 chassis improvements too? Further, a test of the anti skid on an un-plowed Mall parking lot with about 3 inches of snow on it, showed these [non snow] tires can be coaxed to work well with the system, while arcing around at moderate speeds in the slippery stuff. Still again vs. the JLX, clearly the on highway handling benefits of the larger 17 inch rims and low(er) profile tires on the JLX, (and JX), models, are significant vs. how those 16 inch OEM'ers perform on the JA. My conclusion there? I think if I went for a JA, I'd dismount the the OEM 'Stones day one and try to sell them. Then I'd use those steel rims for my winter snows and get aftermarket, (or Suzuki), 17 inch alloys with better summer [all season] rubber mounted on them.
Other: no tinted rear windows in the JA, no cruise which you get on other models, or fog lights, more than four speakers, heated mirrors or heated seats, etc, which all materialize on board as you move higher up the food chain. Though again it had been three months since we TD'ed a '09 JLX, also the seat cushions seemed to feel quite a bit harder in this base JA than what we remembered in the JLX. Probably no surprise there. Beyond all of this, well, we really aren't entitled to know much more, (are we?), as to what other PRECISE specific model differences there are between Suzuki's "permanent 4 wheel drive" JA, and the JX's or JLX's. I've always "just assumed" (for instance) the suspension was identical on all of them, and/or whatever else, but who can say for sure unless Suzuki decides to tell us some day? With no auto mags ever being motivated to do in depth side by side comparison between the models, it shall ever remain thus?
To sum up for 4 cyl fans: guess I'd suggest that for two grand more, a JX 4cyl with it's auto box, (the only way you can get a 4 cyl JX now), with its std. 4 mode 4 wheel drive system, and the other goodies like the tinting, fog lights, cruise, and some other bits, would probably be the best bargain, all things considered. But for ultimate frugality at the pumps, the basic winter highway driving safe manual box JA, just might fill the bill.
HOWEVER the OEM Yokos have a lower tread wear rating to begin with vs. their A/T-S "cousins". Moral of the story probably is: most of us know OEM tires are usually pretty far from being the top of the line, so usually we just "run them out". But again, the handling differences with the larger diameter 17 inch wheels, and lower profile tires on a JX or JLX GV, does make the upgrade worth considering by someone purchasing a new JA.
Now regarding the handling, I don't have changed the 4 seasons EOM Geolandar yet, but as you mentioned the handling could be a bit more precise, but I wouldn't put the fault on them being somewhat less lower profile, but tire quality, when I put my Winter tires (Michelin Latitude X-Ice in 225/70R16) the GV becomes a different beast, the handling is a lot more precise (I'm not talking about winter driving conditions here, it would be too obvious, but dry and wet pavement), something you wouldn't expect from winter tires. So I just can't help thinking about what will be the handling when I'll change the EOM Yoko's 4 seasons for some proper tires like Scorpion ATR or anything better quality.
You're also quite right about being able to "cope" with 16 inchers vs. going to a 17 inch rim. It's just that I've experienced the 17 inchers on that '09 JLX now, and even with the stock rubber, (I didn't bother to see what brand or model they were at the time), I was VERY impressed by the handling and the complete lack of feeling "beat up" when it rolled over bumps in the road, unlike with some other "low" profile wheel/tire setups. Maybe they were even the same Geo's?, but in a different profile they worked better on the JLX?
I once ran a set of aftermarket Goodyear Traction T/A all seasons on the wagon, which were SUPERB in the wet, and provided GREAT cornering adhesion, (though they ultimately suffered from atypical tread wear as latter reviews eventually showed). BUT point being, (regarding sticking with OEM tire/wheels sizes), YES, sticking with the 16 inch OEM GV tire/wheel config., yes, better tires WILL, (as you suggest), yeild better, to MUCH BETTER performance vs. the OEM Yokos, something true also with the OEM rubber that comes as std. eqpt. on probably most new vehicles today. Also as you allude to, for anyone not in the know?, snow tires make a HUGE difference performance wise too in winter, and everyone should run them despite the fact those OEM Yoko's can be made to work, (with careful driving), in winter. Have seen it is MANDATORY now this year in your neck of the woods to use snows in winter. That's a great idea almost anywhere here in the Great White North I think. Even in Vancouver, The White Circus that ensues every time the city gets snow, speaks volumes about how poorly so called "all seasons" do in the slippery stuff. Why there oughta be a law, and fortunately for the safety of everyone where you are, good to see you now have one in Quebec!
So, [alternatively] for any would be JA fans out there buying one now, dismount the OEM Yokos off the steel rims, and replace them with good 16 inch snows. Then come spring pick up a set of aftermarket 16 inch alloy rims to remount the OEM Yoko's. Run 'em out in what, three years?, and then replace them with better tires just as you suggest. Either Discount Tire Direct or The Tire Rack, (I forget which), have particularly nice looking aftermarket alloy 16's available, (which are out of stock until next month as I recall). Check 'em out, or go with Suzuki's alloys.
True, but there's plenty of tires made in the GV's 17" size now. That's because cars like the Highlander use that size. When we bought our GV, there was only about one snow tire available in that size, whereas now there are at least a dozen. The choice in all-seasons and summer tires is, of course, even better.
btw, at the moment the Vancouver Craigslist has a set of 17" oem rims with tires with 1000km on them, asking $900. He didn't say if the tires are the oem's.
Also, be careful buying aftermarket rims. You have to match them up for: diameter, width, # bolt holes, diameter of bolt hole circle, offset, and the size of the center hole. The GV's also have a brake clearance issue that some people have run into. To avoid any issues, I bought a set of used 17" GV alloy rims that now sport a new set of Blizzak DMZ-3's. Surprise, the rims fit perfectly. No need to shovel the driveway now.
1.) Way back to our loaded but for leather, '09 JLX 4cyl Grand Vitara td. We loved it to death last fall, but fell for it way too early in the product cycle to be able to get [then] the kind of deal we'd need on one, (even now probably as of this date?), while finally WE HAD TO HAVE SOMETHING NOW!
2.) Again, had td'ed the last of the new '08 JA 5 speed manuals here, (twice), but also the deals on it had yet to reach "full goodness" at the time. Since then, (and oh ya, they actually "shipped" those out to sell them elsewhere?), since then maybe you could get one [now] for an unadvertised price of say around 18? DO IT, I know where there is at least one still left in the Province, and doubtless there are more. BESIDES we still wanted to td a new base '09 4cyl first anyway, but couldn't find one.
3.) Finally did td the '09 base JA here recently, and found the Full Time 4wd drive line losses, (or?), seemed to dilute the 4 cyl's "oomph" making it actually less rewarding to DRIVE vs. the 4cyl auto JLX!, (a real surprise). But to segue here for a moment, I noticed some pro testers mentioned how the new Jetta clean diesel auto box version was so much better at working in partnership with that engine's torque curve, vs. the six speed manual, again a real surprise maybe?, but certainly less of a one to me now post my research, and now my first hand experience with those two '09 GV's.
4.) Ok, (I then thought), maybe lets default back to thinking about that auto '08 semi loaded JX on the lot, but then found it sold just a day or two before. Ooops, now it sits in the lot where the wife works, but...
1.) advice here for any would be JA fans?: dash out and buy one of the remaining '08 six cylinders. The highway mileage is only about 3mpg lesser than the new 4cyl, though ratings methods seem to have changed. Further reason(s): the additional torque of the 2.7L six gives it marginally better acceleration. Just live with the less sophisticated rear suspension, lesser braking performance, and a bit more cabin noise, while with those rear drums sealed up against then mud better, it will be just fine in the rough stuff. BIG ONE: the prices on the '08's makes them a really attractive propostion.
2.) Other new '09's?, any one with the auto box which incidentally gets ya the 4 mode 4wd system, but wait for the deals to show up, maybe in spring.
Coulda shoulda woulda....
After driving the '09 4 cyl 5 speed JA, couldn't help wondering how it woulda been if the "woulda" included Suzukis' just continuing along with their [own] development and refinement of their part time 4wd system, and how that sweet engine might have performed [THEN] in 2wd mode.... Sigh, ah, the good old days, eh?... But again, hey, [it] works just great with the existing drive line system with the latest auto box trannie, (even with Suzuki's non class leading 4 speed one used in the new 4cyl '09's.
For the record:
No we really didn't take to the N E W CR-V when testing one over the holidays. Drove more like a small Honda van, (we thought), ie: boring. However the td of the very Accord like, nimble prior gen one over the weekend, ya it's loaded, gots the Acura TSX/Accord I-vtec mill, etc, etc., sealed the deal for us, even though being 4 years old, it still rang in at virtually the same price we would have had to pay for a brand new '09 base GV. No comparo there re: driving dynamics, much as our southern bud maybe put it a bit harshly on the other forum a while back. Yes xostnot, no baggy leather seats either, although the hides on ours date back four years, or......
But certainly I come here not to bury Ceaser, (the GV), but to praise him for what ye: the converted, (and I), know he can do out there in the dirt, just as we too have on many past adventures out here in the wilds of Canada, in our Zukes of yore. But when you come to a point when you realize you're likely to be doing somewhat less of the real rough stuff, and start to look around, well in our case [to our own surprise honestly] we ended up coming back home to a Honda, ok, soft roader.
Further, guess I'd have to add to anyone out there, (maybe like moderator Steve), you there bro?, get the wife out in a prior gen awd CR-V, (ya, you can get one with a sweet five speed manual too, though we ended up with the GREAT 5 speed auto box), AND you won't be able to get 'em out of it thereafter. As for the base 4cyl '09 GV, have to say now as my education has progressed, I'm not really sure what it's value is in the marketplace really is, sans having the 4 mode 4wd system on board.
It's been a trip here, (Quest for Wheels), and good to share it with ya. Ya, I'll still be here as I have a keen interest ultimately in hoping Suzuki is successful in improving it's position in the marketplace with the new '09's. Sure, sales figures now are pretty irrelevant for any mfgr given this economic meltdown, but it will be the reliability data which will ultimately filter down re: these new ones, that'll be the proof of the pudding re: all these new improvements. Just the same as it was in '06 post when the latest gen ones were first intro'ed. Buddies still? Of course, I'm sure.
Re: the "short cross bar span" either with the GV factory rack or the skookum aftermarket CR-V Thule one I'll be getting, (as they are mounted up on either our vehicles' roof top "fix points"), ain't much of a spread there, especially for us when we'll be carrying our freighter canoe. Thule to the rescue. Check out their "Goal post" 2 inch trailer receiver hitch mountable, height adjustable "T" which rises to support one end of a water craft, (or whatever), off the back of the vehicle. Wouldn't matter whatsoever what kind of a rack you had forward of this "lifesaver". The uprights of the goal post(s) are two vertical load edge securing pieces that slide on the square Thule bar forming the top of the "T", making them adjustable for positioning against the side of yr. canoe hull, or whatever.
I wondered if it extended far enough out of the receiver hitch to clear [our] rear mounted spare tires? But the Rack Shack guy confirmed today that a RAV-4 owner got one, and it cleared his. Check it out on the Thule website, item 997. Originally designed for use on the back of an open bed pickup, equipped with a 2" receiver trailer hitch, but it can also meet our needs for better load support with less risk of damage to the roof while carrying long max loads. Very cool. Have to live with being unable to open the rear door when it's in place of course. Abt. $229.00 Cdn.
I always thought the previous generation CRV was the nicest looking cuv other than the new GV. I don't know much about them otherwise (except didn't they have stability control early and by then?), but I respect you to have made a very informed choice.
Canoe carrying is when one appreciates a rear hatch lift glass that can open. Fortunately we tend to be using our sedan when we're carrying the canoe.
I put 4 stainless steel band clamps around our roofrack crossbars, spaced to fit the canoe exactly between them. I covered them with innertube rubber slid over the ends of the crossbars. This arrangement completely stops the canoe from moving around in wind gusts. Solid as a rock, which is very reassuring.
Love those new Nokian Hakka R's. Can't seem to do much to cause the 4wd system to want to engage on snow covered roads here today, as they just don't want to let go. LARGE advantage to the "Real Time" system is, the Accord/Acura sourced 2.4L motor gets a reported 27 US mpg on the highway when operating in front wheel drive. 22 US city.
Tried an '04 manual 5 speed too, but as you can appreciate with your own top of the line GV, the fully loaded '05 CR-V, (besides all its "new" safety features), was a MUCH more comfortable, if not just plain OPULENT place to be! Just like a new '09 loaded one today, (I found out), out the door with taxes, freight and PDI, etc., incredibly it originally rang in at just under $40! Blew me right away! Good to see the initial big whack of depreciation taken off that, and a slow down of same from here on. Only 37 thou k's on it. Others on AutoTrader (nation wide) were listed for the same or more $'s, but most had around twice the mileage. IE: happy Norwoods camper....
The "Opalescent Beige" with beige and taupe brown interior [ours] is a stunningly beautiful study in ergonomics too. Always my favorite version of 'em, but never thought I'd "defect" and end up owing one. Never even looked at one up close before, either. There's first time for everything, I guess.
I have only seen about 2.I think they might go out of business soon because no one buys them! i think they either need to make their cars better looking or they'll go bankrupt.... also all the things you said you think they need too
Two things about sales of the GV. Jan '09 saw twice as many sold as Jan '08. And North America is only a tiny market for the Grand Vitara, which has a much larger market share in other parts of the world. It's sold practically everywhere.
Re: our "new" '05 CR-V, (ok, no more about it, but ah do luv it), for GV owners, (xostno, I know you've got your new "snows", but), I should add [here] I just drove the Coquihalla (our high mountain pass highway in BC), last Wednesday, in some of the worst winter weather I've ever encountered on same, and found the NOKIAN HAKKAPALITA "R" XL'S, (SUV grade), tires, to be little less than INCOMPARABLE with regard to their performance on every sort of snow/ice combo which ma nature could throw at "us" last week. Low rolling resistance too boot, makes them a real pleasure in the dry too, and much superior in ride comfort and noise vs. the OEM Bridgestone summers. Superb VALUE despite the HIGH price.
ps: In late Jan. early Feb?, remaining '08's DID end up flying off the lots like hotcakes. But it should also be noted they ended up selling at WELL BELOW dealer cost.... Current economic conditions should help determine "adjusted" [selling price] valuation(s) of ALL vehicles, SOONER THAN LATER? Therefore, maybe by spring all mfgr's will be offering more attractive incentives on new vehicles, Suzuki included if they can afford to do so in, yes, our relatively tiny market [for their vehicles]. Wonder if they'd rather have rebadged a Nissan Rogue instead of that pickup. But hindsight is 20/20, eh...?
Ya miss me, don't ya, nrwdsmn?
Glad to hear you came to your senses and bought a Honda.
I was a bit harsh, huh? Much happier now. Although all the people who have been asking about the GV never said what their final decision was. So I blew alot of hot air for nothing. :sick:
Did you see the article on the top 5 worst cars? The XL7 was there. :lemon:
Hope you're happy with your new ride. We have a 2005 Accord coupe with the V6. Awesome car.
Further summing up re: "my defection", it would have been a tougher call say if this had been 2011, (with depreciation having worked it's magic on an '09 GV), and again with the caveat that the all the reliability data had panned out on 'em [first]. But RIGHT NOW with the Spring deals just starting to sweeten, if one needs, (and I repeat NEEDS!), that 4wd capability, the '09 GV's are metaphorically sweet Florida oranges, (hopefully not other citrus varieties like some '06's/'07's were), vs. a whole crop of pretty unremarkable [other] 4wd "APPLES", alternative choices out there. Why anyone would want to continue to contest those facts is a real puzzlement to me. Translation: the '09 GV seems real sweet to me, but, alas was not quite yet ripe for picking at the point when we had to pluck fruit from the tree. But as consolation, ya, we did pick the shiniest awd APPLE, (it seems), and yes, are enjoying it immensely... As an aside, our fave was the 2000 or so Honda coupe. Further, was sorely tempted by a black '08 on clear out on the Honda lot when we scored the CR-V. May we all get what we want, (and NEED), at the time of purchase, eh?
During 30 years of using varied vehicles on that road, I have had many vehicle challenges. Including a couple of cases of sliding backwards downhill. Fortunately none resulted in damage. But the GV has never failed to make it all the way up, and has never lost its composure. In fact, it romps up and down the road.
On the way down that road last Sunday many people lost control. We saw: one 4-Runner rolled and wrecked, one 4-Runner with chains mounted slid into a ditch. One Ford Freestyle slid over the embankment and crunched against a tree. One large tow truck with dualies, on the scene to remove the 4-Runner and extricate the Freestyle, slid over the embankment and crashed into the side of the Freestyle.
I have never felt as grateful for a cuv with a low range to allow slowly engine braking down the steep slippery sections - rather than use the brakes. I was also extremely grateful for the new Bridgestone Blizzak DMZ-3's. Not to mention a vehicle with excellent weight distribution (and lots of air bags).
We were unaware of the degree of the problem until after we stopped in the middle of one of the steepest hills to await clearance of car-nage below. It was at that point I discovered it was very difficult to stand on the road without falling. After seeing the vehicle behind us go off the road (fortunate since he would have hit us had he gotten much farther), I decided to put our chains on. With or without them, we were able to stop anywhere, while these other vehicles could not stay on the road. There simply was a vast difference in how the vehicles handled the conditions.
Numerous fans of other suv's and cuv's challenge the wisdom of buying a Grand Vitara. This fiasco certainly reinforced my belief that the GV was the right choice.
Note to suv owners: the very popular BF Goodrich All Terrain T/A tires are useless on slick snow.
I know, "Hey Bud, go away and quit bothering us Zuke owners."
I did purchase one for all the same reasons you current owners have one. I just fell out of love and won't consider getting back together.
There are some great points as xostnot has pointed out in driving conditions. Then there are those with vibration and tire problems.
Since Suzuki didn't address my problems, I feel I'm justified and pointing out the not so good points to potential buyers of any Suzuki.
Then there are reviews such as this, that doesn't help out the Zuke brand.
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/908/jaguar-buick-det- hrone-lexus-in-reliability-study/;_ylc=X3oDMTEyMGJyNHYyBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2ZwL- XRvZGF5BHNsawNhcF9qYWc-
And we drove our Samurai right up on the N/W flank of Mt. Garibaldi till we could go no further. Gotta luv 'em. Still, bud strikes a useful cautionary note by advising they, (Zukes), frankly require "more care and feeding", (so to speak), than the main stream softies do. I don't think anyone can argue that point. Ya, again, apples and oranges, but... However speaking from experience now actually owning a CR-V, (2005), and having td'ed the similarly equipped (loaded but for leather), '09 GV JLX 4 cylinder, well, I thought it was a great rig. NO not the same ULTIMATE sophistication/on road performance as the CR-V, but hey, with the low range, that fine new suspension, those short stopping new rear discs, the quiet new cabin thanks to the sound proofing refinements, well, but for the intractable, TOO STEEP intro prices of 'em when we HAD TO move to replace "RUSS", (the rapidly oxidizing! Sidekick), well we would have been happy as clams to have one parked in the driveway here. So seems the moral of the story is, if you need that rough country performance margin, think Suzuki. If you find on the other hand you can scale back the outdoor adventures a bit, well then the other choices are obvious. No one's right or wrong here, it all just comes down to what [do you] need?, and how willing you are to put up with the extra care and feeding that comes along with owning a more complex to service [Suzuki] true 4wd vehicle.
There are going to be some happy fortunate folks who end up with very good deals on these new '09's between right now and December. The new 4 cyl JLX is as close to a CR-V in general feel as I think Suzuki can possibly make 'em. That's a real tribute given it's considerable capabilities as duly noted by xostnot. You're welcome [again] Suzuki...
Curious why you chose an 05 CRV over an 06 or 07 GV? Seems like there are some great deals to be had.
BTW, the zuke dealer in town closed it's doors. As well as a major boat manufacturer. The economy sure is taking it's toll on everything. :sick:
Hope it's warming up for you. We've only had a couple 90* days and rain today.
Have a Happy Easter!
So well ya, why'd ya do what ya did then, (you may well ask?) First we TDed a brand new '09 full base awd CR-V. In full base trim it came "equipped" with ACRES, (HECTARES up here), of unending dull grey plastic. And wow though there was a, (well, ya, it's about time you got competitive in the marketplace, HONDA!), year end $7,000.00 internet factory deal!, (internet buying service figures, we'd signed up...), even with that it just didn't wind my crank. It didn't feel right in the sense that you were so fully isolated from what was going on there at the road interface(es) with the tire contact patches... IE: just making you feel too "oh so comfortably remote" from the driving experience. Enter maybe two months later, our chance finding of a fully loaded low mileage, (22 thou MILES), '05 AWD [prior gen] ex lease one on the local lot, (good as Gold in color, at about twelve grand less than it's original selling price!), AND including it's vastly more involving [prior gen] feeling of yr. being actually invoved in the driving process, (vastly more road feel in the handling department vs. the isolation from same a new '09), and hey, we were left only with the question, what time does the bank open up Monday morning? Actually we went with Honda finance which with our Cr. Rating, readily gave us an acceptable deal, the next business day. But without totally spillin my guts here, (this aint a short one so far, is it?), we had other issues on the horizion too, including aging parents down south of the border. In fact just two months after scoring the CR'V, my dad "crapped out", (so to speak), and I can tell you it was a real godsend to be down there for almost a full month recently, with out having to worry about, (for instance), the chance my gas gauge might suddenly quit working. My heater core would suddenly disgorge its contents onto the floor of the passenger foot well, the seat belt fasteners were found to have been mfg'rd deffectively, and, but I wouldn't know about it, the this, the that... Or that the insulation beneath my cat converter might "smoulder?" as I drove over the mountain pass I had to traverse while heading south, (sendin fumes into the cockpit?), or, or, or and or......... Still again this very morning ya, I recommend with out reservation the new 4cy GV to my best bud. How/why? He has a ski cabin just down the hill from were we grew up, (almost, we're still workin' on it), skiing together as high school kids, (still go way too fast on 'em yet, Atomic GS race skis though we graduated to the Nomad Crimson ti's this season), AND because his cabin is also immediately adjacent to one of the finest alpine wilderness parks in the lower 48, AND ya, you need a 4wd w/low range to get in there on some of the key access roads, so I HAVE TO influence him to buy one FOR US TO USE while I am visiting, (please?). Don't even think about with your CR-V, on the other hand...
Nuff said? Ya, probably more than, but maybe you can discern some path of logic in these ramblings?
Please keep yr. input coming, that's chiefly why we're here I think, to hear from you new '09 owners.
Just a few items re: my "War and Peace" length, (sorry), last post. Correction: our new CR-V tester around the first of the year was an '08 on clear out, (with that 7 grand internet factory discount). Think you can do about 5 grand now on a new '09 awd, (have had no reason to check back any more now). Did see the spring deals are starting to blossom just a bit on the '09 Zukes though. But for he or she who can wait til the frost is on the pumpkin, or the snow is on the yule tree, well, the deals oughta be killer then... Just hope the brand doesn't suffer too much in this economic climate as wary folks continue to contribute to "deflation". Further, sure don't see those Equator's flying off the lots, (at least not here). Would be interesting to know the sales figures on the other '09's. Have not seen any recently. What's happening back east there now on the lots in eastern Canada, (other bud)?
JUST GREAT to hear you too have owned other Zukes, as there ain't many of us here, (as near as I can tell), though the Maestro of GV info?, our bud xostnot sure is an invaluable info source. But now we're waiting to hear from you, (and yet again ultimately, one: JD Power), to see if these latest Zukes can transcend their past reliability issues. No, as you and I and others know, nothing there that would ever tend to leave you stranded by the side of the norwoods road, but regardless those haunting little gremlins do, (lets be honest), manage to score right up there on the aggravation meter.... If Suzuki can now prove with the new '09's that it has overcome the necessity [for all of us] to have to keep noting this repetitive "issues footnote", well then at such time imo, the marque will finally have fully matured.... Hope it goes that way for them, and we the [mostly] still faithful.
Keep us informed.
If you want sales figures, someone at cartalkcanada posts US and Canadian sales breakdowns monthly, right down to the model. The Equator, indeed, is not doing well. Surprise! The SX4 presently is saving the company's North American bacon. However, on the global scale, and Suzuki IS a global player, Suzuki is doing ok, having recently moved up to 9th largest world carmaker. #1 in India, for instance. There are, however, lots of stories of closing dealerships in the US. Not that it's not happening to other brands though.
This site has a wealth of information about Suzuki, a magazine, even a picture of the Iwata plant where the GV is built.
North Americans have a completely different perception of Suzuki. People on other continents don't single out the brand for resale value, mileage, reliabilty, dealerships, etc. They also don't read Consumer Reports. Perhaps if Suzuki wants to grow in North America, they should look at how Hyundai has done it. If they care.
I've come to distrust Consumer Reports and JD Power reliability ratings. The only souce I respect is Michael Karesh's truedelta.com. Speaking of which, he could use a few more GV owners to get the GV onto "fully qualified" status of 25 vehicles per model year. The reliabiilty stats gathered so far are mid-pack. Certainly not at the bottom as CR and JDP rate them. Below Chrysler, for instance. Obviously that has not been our experience.
I still think the Aussies have it right seeing the true PURPOSE IN LIFE of the GV, for it is revered (nearly) "down under". Yet on the other hand we don't have to wrestle many "crocks" here in North America, and so are different folks. Though on the subject of "crocks", seems something akin to fair dinkum full of one, for more than just one of us here? to have felt over time it may have been something akin to having to pin one of the big long scaly toothy ones, (think Sea Crocodiles???), to the ground, (metaphorically speaking, of course), when trying to solve ownership "issues" with, (for instance), either the dealership service network, or on occasion, "those 20 footers out there in reincarnated form, if you will", represented by those Suzuki's national customer service rep types... Need I say too much more.... Ya, ok, ok again, they can't all be that bad, but my own satisfaction level was just 50%, so...
So that's just one more example why yes, we ARE a breed of brand loyal owners, (mostly loyal), who by definition are apart from "the clutch", (reptilian reference there again), apart from the mainstream of new vehicle buyers. Yet are some of those unique distinctions ones we wish to readily embrace, by choice? You can and have spoken as well to these sorts of nagging issues as well as any of the rest of us. "Generic" info there really, irrespective of what model(s) we may have, or now still do own. Ya, our drive it till it drops Esteem wagon is still parked outside, and ok, I'm glad I have it. But I just recently finally had to toss up the hands and give up the continued aggravation of fruitlessly pursuing a clear dealership service related issue any further, but will still [have to] live with the vehicle anyway, til it drops..
Re" just one, (of a number?), of GV aggravations of yours, for instance: it would absolutely "tan my hide" to have paid what you did for your loaded GV (with leather), and then to have 'em stretch out within such a relatively short period of ownership, yes, your "rig's" excellent o/r performance notwithstanding. Contrast that with our older "new", (to us) loaded '05 CR-V, where they, (the hides), remain totally pristine but for some minor stretch [marks] as opposed to being "stretched out". That reminds me, I need to pick up some leather treatment stuff today, any recommendations?).
Elsewhere under the hood, our Accord/Acura TSX sourced engine has not allowed me to add even one drop of oil now during our first 5,000kms of ownership. In fact the service intervals using synthetic oil, (factory service recomended invervals), on the new '09 CR-V's, are WAY up there beyond a GV's, (the ultimate quality of the new '09 GV's, and their engines, of course yet remaining to be fully known, however). Ok, ok, again I know were back to apples and oranges, but... But although I also know the fact Suzuki's require 1 quart per 1,000kms, has nothing to do with the longevity of their bulletproof engines, still, speaking very simply to "engineering tolerances", the message there re comparative oil consumption figures is pretty clear if you look a bit deeper. That this fact doesn't seem to effect engine life in a Zuke, is of course a real blessing. But the devil lies [elsewhere, elsewhere in the vehicle] in those [other] engineering "details", when you the new owner of a new to the market Suzuki offering, gets to play "real world shakedown test pilot" as in effect those "engineering tolerance related issues" can and do crop up somewhere else, "here and there" at some point on down the road... Been there, done that, and don't miss it at all now, I must be frank, just like our sometimes audacious, (oops, no offense bud, seriously!!!), bud, Budman3. In the interim, I sure hope for nothing but good news from that guy, "The Guy".
Haha, at least you're still thinking of your ol Bud.
I must say that I have mended my ways of audacity and ferocity ever since the GV left the garage for someone else's demise. I think the stress of ownership and not knowing how much more out of pocket expense I could endure and trips to the dealer (which is now gone) all contributed to my evil ways. :sick:
Once again, the reason I stay is not to cause harm and cruelty to other owners but to let NEW owners know what they may encounter and with a product that Suzuki won't stand behind. :lemon:
I forgot about the oil burning in the GV, as well as the cardboard on the floor to soak up the oil leaks. It's equivalent to my Chevy truck that sometimes I wonder if they originally designed it to be a 2 cycle lawnmower engine. Between the Hondas/Acuras in the family, I have never added oil or found leaks.
I really do hope Suzuki wakes up to smell the coffee and correct some the issues but they are definately putting more nails in the coffin as time goes on. The first couple years when a new product comes out is the most critical for the future of the product. When complaints fall on deaf ears, it won't take long for the public to notice.
I was hoping to hear from some of the members to see if they actually purchased the Zuke, not only here but in the older section of the GV. I guess if they did, they would be here complaining.
I'm almost there, nrwdsmn. My replies are getting loooonger. :P
Now mine is about 3 1/2 years old with near 50K Km behind it, running smoother than ever and not burning oil, never had to add a single drop in between the changes.
What a CR-V won't do: is provide adequate braking in 1st with the slush box on steep grades. Went in search of the season's first Mountain Bluebird(s) early this am, (successfully), and confirmed [that] on the descent, though this was no surprise. For an interesting counterpoint here?, I'll be beginning to wring out "the rig" a bit as trout season approaches, and will report on how she traverses that mud bog en route to my fave norwoods lake. BTW, just took delivery of Thule's trailer hitch mount "Goalpost", item 997, though it's still in the box. Will report on it [as well] once it's set up to carry the freighter canoe, and I've used it.
Zero maintenance again on the CR-V in the first 5,000kms. Supreme comfort in everyday driving. A real delight. To xostnot, my yard stick re: rec. use sufficiency will include, (here in BC), the Idaho Peak lookout road above Slocan Lake, the Gibson Lake road into Kokanee Provincial Park, the one into Murtle Lake in Wells Gray Prov. Park, and the Trophy Mountain Meadows one north of the town of Clearwater. Might make it up to the fire lookout above Kaslo @ Kootenay Lake, but would be a real brake test on the way down. If she does all those, and makes it to my fishin' hole here in the backyard, well I'll remain a very happy owner. Will I miss having an '09 GV instead?, time will tell, and I'll let you know....
Of course it's no small irony I could probably sell the Honda today for the same I paid for it, and turn around and buy a "steadily incrementally cheaper" new GV as the product cycle for them runs its course. Looking at the other side of the coin, the reverse certainly would NOT be true if one wanted to sell a GV to move on to something else. There are reasons why that is so.
I did not have any experience for purchasing a new car. 2008 Model is fine with me. I only care the price. I want leather seats too. Is that possible i get the car with leather seats in OTD price: ~$20,000. My Calculation: TMV in Edmunds is $18388+$1200 (Leather seat) =$19588 (OTD).
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