Photo Radar

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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    Ok, referendums can be good for a few things. :shades:
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Municipalities also need to randomly spot check and audit the contracted out cameras as well to assure they are being maintained properly and aren't rigged. I think people would trust them more if this was done and the results released to the media.
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    Like I said, the scam WILL unravel. :)

    from: http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/31/3131.asp

    Arizona Drops Redflex Freeway Speed Camera Contract
    Arizona governor orders strategic withdrawal of statewide photo radar contract.

    Arizona Governor Jan Brewer's administration has officially canceled the state contract that authorized Redflex Traffic Systems to issue automated freeway speeding tickets. The program, started in 2008 by Brewer's Democratic predecessor Janet Napolitano, will be terminated according to statement issued earlier today to Australian Securities Exchange investors.

    "Redflex has now received formal notification from the Department of Public Safety (DPS) that the contract will not be renewed," Redflex stated.

    Although the official contract expiration date is July 1, inside sources expect speed vans to be pulled off the highways much sooner. As a result of the lost revenue stream, Redflex said it would take a $5 million loss on top of a previously announced $4.9 million loss arising from residents realizing that tickets sent in the mail can be safely ignored. A 1992 appeals court ruling declared void any attempt to impose a fine without personal service (read opinion).

    Intense public pressure against photo enforcement in general spurred the decision to end the contract. While the loss of the statewide ticketing program is significant in terms of revenue to the state and other interested parties, the industry hopes to relieve the pressure that has been building to outlaw the far more lucrative red light camera and speed camera programs in local jurisdictions.

    "Even if the program does continue in early FY2011, a number of groups opposed to photo enforcement are trying to have a referendum put to voters in November 2011 to effectively end photo enforcement in the state of Arizona," a Redflex statement issued last month explained. "Whether this referendum occurs, and the likely outcome, are difficult to predict at this stage."

    Referendum organizers insist that they will press forward with their effort because there are no guarantees that the freeway cameras will not make a comeback after the elections. Municipal cameras, moreover, issue just as many tickets as the statewide cameras and raise all of the same constitutional and safety issues.

    "Arizonans know that these cameras increase accidents (view studies)," Arizona Citizens Against Photo Radar representative Shawn Dow told TheNewspaper. "Now it is time for the red light cameras to come down."

    On top of the contract difficulties, a lawsuit by competitor American Traffic Solutions has brought the Redflex legal bill for the year to $6.2 million. The company reported a pre-tax profit of $13.4 million last year. In April, Redflex reduced the expectation to $7 million. The latest announcement dropped the figure to just $2 million.

    The jury trial in the case ATS v. Redflex will commence at 9am on May 11 before US District Court Judge Frederick J. Martone. The trial is expected to last six days.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    No big deal. Redflex can just start taking snapshots of people on the street so the cops can go check their papers. :P
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Member Posts: 3,425
    I must show ID when:
    1. Pulled over by the police

    2. Making purchases on my master card or VISA credit card. Every dang time.

    3. When I show up for a doctor's appointment.

    4. When filling out a credit card or loan application.

    5. When applying for/renewing a driver's license or passport.

    6. When applying for any kind of insurance.

    7. When filling out college applications.

    8. When donating blood.

    9. When obtaining certain prescription drugs.

    10. When making some debit purchases, especially if I'm out of state.

    11. When collecting a boarding pass for airline or train travel.

    I'm sure there are more instances but the point is, we citizens are required to prove who we are nearly every day.

    Why should people illegally in this country be exempt?
    Why should they be calling us racists or bigots???

    GO AZ !!!!! :)
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    Actually, #2 is, or at least should be, wrong. Merchants are contractually prohibited from demanding ID from credit card users, as well as imposing any minimums or maximums for purchases. Real life is of course different, but all major credit card companies have the same contractual obligations in this regard.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    edited May 2010
    Yeah, I drive my wife crazy with that one. I actually have a letter from VISA saying that merchants can't ask for ID as part of doing a transaction. It's bad enough I give a clerk my credit card - I'm sure not going to gild it with my name, address and driver's license number. Every time I get a request like that I say no and if I get any flack I ask for the manager (it really helps if the line starts stacking up behind me). Then I ask for their bank information so I can file a complaint.

    If I was a merchant, I'm sure I'd hate MC/Visa and the transaction fees they charge. But thems the breaks.

    I go months without showing ID (I'm on a first name basis with everyone in my doc's office and my Rx's come in the mail).
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Member Posts: 3,425
    When I showed her my 15 year old "Golden Age Passport" at Glacier N.P. she also wanted to see additional photo ID to verify the GAP. She wasn't armed, but wore a badge & that was good enuf for me.

    My photo is on my VISA and still get requests for photo ID. And they vote.
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    Well, ANYBODY with a government badge (and especially the ones packing heat in addition) should get respect, but what you describe doesn't qualify as a credit card transaction that I was referring to. :)

    Your Visa card transactions, however, ARE covered under that contractual obligation.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    The ranger taking money at Olympia wanted ID with my Visa card a couple of years ago. I got my card back and paid cash.

    This guy is enjoying some good press:

    Lawyer beats Portland's red light cameras (KGW.com)

    "And Ginsberg points out that he has no quarrel with the use of red light cameras. Used properly, he said they increase traffic safety. But there was a doubt with this signal. "They are issuing tickets to people perhaps they shouldn't be."
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    edited November 2010
    "What they are are smart cameras which can track speed, the distance between vehicles (Tailgating? You know that's a fine.), road surface condition (Yes, you were going the speed limit, but our cameras showed it was damp and thus, that's unsafe. Pay up, sucka.) and can calculate traffic emissions. Oh, and it can tell if you're wearing a seatbelt."

    They Know If You've Been Bad or Good...Because They're Watching You All The Time in HD (Straightline)

    image
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Member Posts: 3,425
    The drivers who resent anarchists behind the wheel will love it. It is overdue.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 25,929
    Trotwood on the edge of urban decay in Dayton keeps announcing their mobile Redflex Traffic system. It's in a white Explorer (is there a deep meaning in their choice of a troubled past vehicle) and is placed anywhere. They already have several redlight and speed cameras in place.

    Oddly they bragg how this frees up officers to do other important work. But I can't see anything more important than traffic stops of officers after actually putting down the donuts and coffee and seeing if the driver has a license, warrants, alcohol or drug impairment, etc., when they actually stop them. This village is in the general area where a local with 12 approx citations for no valid license and others tickets sped down a road hitting the mayor of another area town and killing him while he waited to turn left.

    What could be more important than actually stopping a violator at the time rather than mailing a money-maker ticket 2 weeks later to the owner of the vehicle?

    We just elected a new state representative to the house in Ohio who considers this just a money scheme. I know. I talked to him when he came to our door during the campaign.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Member Posts: 3,425
    Red Flex enables increased revenue to hire more cops to serve you more personally as you require.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 25,929
    Redflex, Australia, is a gimmick to allow politicians to spend less on real policing to protect the public and spend more elsewhere.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    edited March 2011
  • timadamstimadams Member Posts: 294
    Wow. I'm pleasantly surprised. This is an absolutely correct ruling. With camera enforcement, there is no person to testify who was driving or how they were supposedly breaking the law. The state bears the burden of proof, which is impossible to meet with these revenue cameras.
  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    edited April 2011
    I've been in Germany for the last two months and found that there are lots of photo radar cameras. Contrary to what most people think, driving in Germany is VERY slow (except on the uncontrolled portions of the autobahn). The speed limit on city streets is only 50km (31mph). Between the slow speeds and scores of photo radar, you'd think that driving here would be miserable for speeders like myself. However, that isn't the case for several reasons:

    1) In Germany, photo radar units are called "safety cameras" and the Germans actually mean it. Unlike in the US, German safety cameras are positioned in places where prudent drivers already slow down. For instance, most of the cameras I have seen here are on the approaches to tight curves or in areas of traffic congestion, the road narrows, or where pedestrians commonly cross. On the other hand, US photo radars are more likely to be positioned on long straightaways and wide roads where people are more likely to speed. It seems that in Germany the intent is to keep you safe while in the US the intent is to keep you poor.

    2) In Germany, fines for speeding tickets are generally less than $50 with 10-15 Euros being common for speeds less than 20km over the limit. On the other hand, most US tickets start at more than $100. For instance, a photo radar ticket in Tucson carries fines of $226 for going 11mph over the limit.

    3) Because German safety cameras are designed to slow you down for safety reasons, the positions of almost all cameras are fixed and their locations are readily available to the public. In fact, most GPS systems sold here come with all the safety cameras loaded in their database and will warn you to slow down as you approach one.

    4) German safety cameras are owned and operated by the government, not a private enterprise seeking to make a profit off of our misfortune.

    Do I still oppose photo radar? Yes. However, I have less of a problem with it here because I believe that enhancing safety is the goal--as opposed to the profit motive and budget-balancing prevalent in the US.

    By the way, a letter recently arrived from the Pima County Justice Court in Tucson stating: "We know it's not you in the photo, but please tell us the identity of the driver so that we can ticket them". (paraphrased). Yeah Tucson, don't hold your breath on that...

    One final thought: they are very serious about red light running here. Run a red light and the ticket will cost you $400 or so. They have red light cameras, but no private companies manipulating the system to maximize profits...
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Shouldn't Dayton be using GM vehicles? I've read several times that studies show a slightly longer yellow does more to reduce accidents than camera's accomplish.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    "TomTom became the latest technology company to be embroiled in a privacy row when it emerged that the Dutch satellite navigation company had sold driving data collected from customers to the police.

    The company was forced to issue an apology to its customers after a Dutch newspaper revealed that data, including records of the speed driven, had been used to help police set speed traps for motorists."

    TomTom sorry for selling driver data to police (Financial Times)
  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    Thanks for the heads-up. I'll never buy a Tom Tom because of it. All this data sharing is getting a little too Orwellian for me...
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Thanks for the heads-up. I'll never buy a Tom Tom because of it. All this data sharing is getting a little too Orwellian for me...

    Totally agree, and so is all this camera stuff.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 18,717
    If you get a photo radar ticket and the picture doesn't clearly show who is the driver can you beat it by the "it wasn't me" defense? IOW, someone else might have been driving.

    I have a friend who got one in a work zone in Maryland while on her way to South Carolina. According to her, there was no work going on and no workers were present. It seems as if everyone went home but left the camera on for some revenue enhancement.

    The ticket is only $40.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    I don't like AAA so I don't mind posting this one. :P

    South Carolina: AAA Endorses Illegal Speed Trap

    "AAA now derives a significant portion of its revenue from automobile insurance, an amount that increases for each photo enforcement ticket issued in states like California and Arizona where license points apply to photo tickets."

    Lots more red light and camera enforcement articles at theNewspaper.com at that link.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Member Posts: 3,425
    AAA is a legitimate Insurance & Travel Agency providing a valuable service to those dependent on others for their travel experiences. Besides not appreciating AAA I do not adhere to the principles of AARP either.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,664
    edited May 2011
    If you get a photo radar ticket and the picture doesn't clearly show who is the driver can you beat it by the "it wasn't me" defense? IOW, someone else might have been driving.

    I got a photo radar ticket on Thanksgiving Day, 2009. It was $45, and treated just like a parking ticket, so no points, and no impact on my car insurance. And, being treated as a parking ticket, it becomes the responsibility of the vehicle's owner, not the driver. And, in the pic, you could not tell who was driving.

    I think they keep the fee low and don't assess points, figuring that makes you more likely to just pay the fine and not try to fight it in court.

    Makes a good case for driving a pickup truck and keeping the tailgate down, if you ask me! :P

    Oh, the other week, two speed cameras went up along the road on my way to work, but they were taken down within a day. I'm guessing the right person must have complained.

    One thing they did that was really dangerous, was place each one on the shoulder, right at the end of an acceleration lane. Not too intelligent. And to make it worse, they had traffic cones set up around them effectively blocking the whole shoulder, so any pedestrian or bicyclist would be forced into the traffic lane.

    The way they had them jacked up on blocks, they also looked pretty unstable, like it wouldn't be hard to tip one. Not that any of us law abiding citizens would ever think of such a thing... :shades:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    edited May 2011
    Yeah, AARP is another lobbying outfit with goals I don't agree with. And they make most of their money selling insurance too.
  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    edited May 2011
    With only two weeks to go on my trip, I got my first speeding tickets in Germany. They were both clean kills as I was doing 40km and 20km over. The only thing that bugs me is the locations of the cameras. Both were on sections of roads where one could very safely do 100kph (only 62 mph) but the limits were 60 and 80. The limits went right back up to 120k less than two miles down the road. They were also within 1K of each other on a brand new section of roadway--I guess they have to pay for the beautiful roads somehow! They were the new R2D2-looking infrared cameras that I pray they don't get in the States. You can't see them until it's too late!

    Bottomline: I'm guilty and I'll pay about $100 for the two tickets combined (unlike in the US where they'd cost hundreds of dollars each).
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Member Posts: 3,425
    The notice of infraction includes:
    1. Photo of your license plate.
    2. Two photos of your car during the infraction.
    3. By going on line you can use a website & pin number to see a movie of your car committing the infraction.
    4. This up to date process completely does away with any possible chance of violators whining, crying, cussing, & pleading with a LEO whose time is more valuable than to witness whatever tirade you choose to exclaim.
    5. The photography & movie is of the highest quality which eliminates any doubt that would be offered by an unreasonable person.

    So, when the infraction notice is received by mail, look it all over & issue your check in the amount shown.

    Did I mention you don’t have to deal in person with a LEO? ;)
  • timadamstimadams Member Posts: 294
    Does it completely and accurately identify who is driving the car? Is the system 100% foolproof regarding speed measurement, light cycling, traffic volume and other pertinent factors?

    Are we ready to cede the state's burden of proof of violations to machines and equipment? I'm not.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 25,929
    edited June 2011
    And did the camera check the driver for a valid license at the time of the "flash"?

    Did the camera check for alcohol or drug impairment?

    Did the driver have insurance on the vehicle at the time of the camera flash?

    Is the car registration valid?

    All good reasons to have officers actually stop the cars rather than use a moneymaker company from Australia to send half the money to Australia.

    I noted the local police this morning must have caught another stolen vehicle being driven. They were towing the car after a traffic stop at 9 am. A camera wouldn't have caught that.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Member Posts: 3,425
    send half the money to Australia.

    Better to Australia than all the $$ we/ve been sending to Japan, China, & Germany.

    I trust you drive only Yankee cars? ;)
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Member Posts: 3,425
    Are we ready to cede the state's burden of proof of violations to machines and equipment? I'm not.

    You have accepted the equipment when you encountered your first Radar Speed Gun.

    The first time you accepted the equipment was when you got a ticket for overtime parking.

    It is with us. So abide by it. ;)
  • timadamstimadams Member Posts: 294
    You have accepted the equipment when you encountered your first Radar Speed Gun.

    The first time you accepted the equipment was when you got a ticket for overtime parking.


    Absolutely not. Drivers have the right to question and dispute a speeding or parking ticket issued by a person. If a radar operator doesn't appear in court and provide proof that his equipment is accurate, that a certain individual was driving, and other circumstances of the offense, the ticket is thrown out. This is exactly what I mean. The state has the burden of proof of what happened and who committed an offense. Camera tickets do not meet that burden of proof.

    Parking tickets are different. However, if a parking meter is faulty, you can request that a parking ticket be invalidated, and that happens fairly frequently.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Member Posts: 3,425
    Camera tickets do not meet that burden of proof.

    When you see the movie of the violation in progress, you'll have your burden of proof. It works very well & is needed to free up a LEO so he can investigate your home burglary. ;)
  • robr2robr2 BostonMember Posts: 8,863
    The notice of infraction includes:
    1. Photo of your license plate.
    2. Two photos of your car during the infraction.
    3. By going on line you can use a website & pin number to see a movie of your car committing the infraction.
    4. This up to date process completely does away with any possible chance of violators whining, crying, cussing, & pleading with a LEO whose time is more valuable than to witness whatever tirade you choose to exclaim.
    5. The photography & movie is of the highest quality which eliminates any doubt that would be offered by an unreasonable person.


    Sounds like a great value for only $100!! :D

    Are they suitable for framing.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    It works very well & is needed to free up a LEO so he can investigate your home burglary.

    Oh, is that why I always see so many police cars running traffic radar in different towns. Let's be honest, the financial crunch has turned police departments into revenue agents to help offset budget problems. I seldom see them patrolling residential neighborhoods any more. I have a lot of respect for individuals that go into police work, they've got a lot of guts and work in a difficult environment for mediocre pay and lots of lawyer hassles, but I'm sure more than a few of them are frustrated with their new emphasis on bringing in the cash.
  • timadamstimadams Member Posts: 294
    From the article steve linked:

    "Unless the L.A. City Council intervenes, the red-light cameras could be shut down within a few weeks. According to the Police Commission, the legitimacy of the citations were questionable."

    Even the police and city council admit the legitimacy is questionable. There is no doubt in my mind that red light cameras increase the frequency of rear-end collisions. I've seen it happen myself. And I know how radar technology works, and don't believe a non-operated radar gun and camera can pick out the correct vehicle for a speeding ticket.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited September 2012
    From Today's AutoWeek...

    "In Western countries, even the most heinous of automobile accidents can be settled in court with a long jail sentence. In the Middle East, penalties can be a bit harsher.

    A Saudi Arabian man who killed two men near the capital of Riyadh while drifting—hagwalah, as they call it—is sentenced to be publicly beheaded for the incident. The driver also fled the scene before police arrived.

    In court records, the man is known as Mutannish, meaning 'he who ignores.'

    Authorities in Saudi Arabia treat drifting deaths as negligent homicides, which leads to the extreme penalty. In 2005, a naval officer in the country was found guilty of killing three minors in a negligent stunt-driving accident. His death sentence was reduced to 3,000 lashes and 20 years in prison.

    According to Amnesty International, at least 82 people were executed in Saudi Arabia last year, many by public beheading."
  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    I just returned from a trip to Baltimore and used the new tolled Express Lanes. My radar detector alerted for laser as I passed every observation platform (except one). The speed didn't matter from 2-25 mph over the limit (I was one of only two cars on the road). I know they have observation cameras, but do they have photo radar?
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    A government lawyer’s attempt to get dismissed nearly $700 in traffic tickets given to the U.S. Postal Service is being met with a hearty and humorous, Heck no.

    In a Jan. 22 letter sent to both the city of East Cleveland, Ohio, and the company that operates the city's photo-enforcement program, Postal Service attorney Jennifer S. Breslin says two school-zone speeding citations and five red-light infractions by postal trucks in December should be ignored.

    “In providing mail service across the country, the Postal Service attempts to work within local and state laws and regulations, when feasible,” wrote Breslin, after reminding “To Whom It May Concern” that postal workers promptly deliver over 200 billion pieces of mail annually.

    “However, as you are probably aware, the Postal Service enjoys federal immunity from state and local regulation,” she continued.

    That last bit did not go over well with American Traffic Solutions (ATS), the Arizona-based company that enforces East Cleveland’s camera citations.


    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/usps-immune-local-traffic-laws-165944476.htm- l
  • slorenzenslorenzen Member Posts: 694

    Thought this was interesting:

    "Virginia resident Nate Cox, an Army vet whose license plate reads “ENDW4R,” received a speeding ticket in the mail last May alleging he was behind the wheel when his Honda Civic was (allegedly) clocked by a photo-radar device exceeding the posted speed limit somewhere in Washington, D.C.

    But unlike most people, who’ve become inured to the way municipalities con motorists by making it easier to pay a fine than dispute the charge, Cox, in his own words, “knew better.”

    He didn’t hire a lawyer or concoct some elaborate scheme to outfox the system. Cox beat the ticket by simply standing up for himself as an American citizen whose Constitutional protections would be violated if he admitted guilt and paid the fine.

    “I knew better [than] to just submit and pay a fine like the majority of people do in this country, unfortunately,” he wrote on the Virginia Cop Block blog. “I am in the habit of not taking ‘plea deals,’ and I am always in the habit of fighting my tickets and NOT pre-paying them so I don’t have to go to court — like many folks do.”

    After receiving the ticket by mail, Cox responded with a letter of his own:

    To Whom it May Concern,
    
    I received a letter claiming I committed a violation of a speeding law in the District of Columbia on 04/21/2012. As per the instructions, I am writing to plead ‘not guilty’ to this charge. Although this option is said to result in this matter going to court; it is my suggestion that the charges simply be dropped. This suggestion comes out of respect for tax payers, and my request that their hard earned money not be wasted in such proceedings. As there is no evidence of my involvement with this alleged ‘crime’, as well as the fact that I am not granted my 6th amendment right to face my ‘accuser’ (a camera); I see no way the government could prove my guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I also see find no legal requirement for me to implicate someone else in this process, as it is the government’s responsibility to prove a person’s guilt. It is also my 5th amendment right to remain silent on the matter.
    
    If it is the government’s decision to move forward in this matter, I would request copies of any evidence the prosecution may have of my involvement in the “offense”; as well as, all maintenance records for the camera(s) involved.
    
    Sincerely,
    
    Nathan Cox
    
    United States Army Veteran
    

    It worked. Then again, it should work every time a municipality goes citizen-pillaging by relying on a robot to enforce laws intended, primarily, to aggrandize the government — not protect people.

    True to form for a government bureaucracy, the DMV acknowledged his response in a less-than-timely manner, informing him (by mail) several months later that “[b]ased on your statement and/or evidence or the government’s failure to meet its burden of proof, the ticket was dismissed by a hearing examiner.”

    Cox uses his story to encourage Americans not to take illegal traffic enforcement lying down.

    “PLEASE, NEVER EVER opt to pay these Photo Enforced Speeding AND Red Light tickets! You do NOT have to incriminate yourself OR implicate anyone else,” he wrote. “It’s the government’s responsibility to provide evidence that YOU were the person driving, don’t help them in their ‘investigation.’ ALWAYS go to court and fight your tickets, if there is NO VICTIM…there is NO CRIME!”

    http://personalliberty.com/2014/02/07/now-thats-how-you-beat-a-photo-radar-speeding-ticket/

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHMember Posts: 22,129

    Sadly, I believe most states and municipalities have abrogated citizen's rights to face their accusers when writing the enabling legislation permitting the use of photo radar. It might be worth trying a Not Guilty plea. I've had mixed results, Once getting off a red light ticket which was dismissed by a magistrate and once being nailed for $300 in fines ans "service costs".

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 53,973

    Gotta pay for those fat pensions somehow.

    The accusations against redflex and similar that they are indeed paying off should-be-hanged local officials are very telling. This strong link between faux private sector business and government is one of the roots of fascism:
    http://camerafraud.wordpress.com/tag/redflex-scam/

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    "On Friday, the Chicago Tribune released the results of a study it commissioned on injury crashes and red light cameras, revealing that while right angle crash incidents have been reduced, rear-end crashes that resulted in injuries went up 22 percent."

    Major Chicago study finds red light cameras not safer, cause more rear-end injuries (arstechnica.com)
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,659
    euphonium said:

    "civil disobedience" is defined as the Liberal's tantrum .

    "windfall profit" is defined as the Liberal's jealousy of the Capitalist's earnings.

    The logic of
    automatically dismissing the profits reaped by camera companies is that they are effective at making transportation safer than otherwise.

    If the liberal driver was as concerned about his safe driving as he is about other's profits, photo cameras would not be as necessary as they are today.

    Most Libers have never held a job that wasn't paid by a taxpayer. As such explains their acceptance of "profits".

    Too bad the studies are in, red light cameras not only fail to increase safety, they actually INCREASE accidents at intersections that use them.

    Photo cameras are not useful, beneficial, or productive in any manner or way, except to those who benefit from extorting money out of motorists.

    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    "D.C. police acknowledged Monday that a sharp decline in revenue from the city’s network of traffic enforcement cameras was due in part to problems maintaining some of the equipment — undermining earlier claims that the drop was mainly due to motorists doing a better job obeying the law."

    Broken traffic cameras contributed to massive revenue decline, D.C. police say (washingtonpost.com)
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,659
    edited January 2015
    Those stats don't take into account vehicle miles traveled. When balanced for Million Vehicle Miles travelled, higher speed limits have been shown to REDUCE accidents and fatalities. This is where the confusion of 55 MPH speed limits comes from. Those with an agenda and a bias to propagate will mention fatalities rose when 55 was repealed Federally. That is true, but when you balance the stats for Million Miles travelled so that the data means something, you see that accidents and deaths went down, pretty much every year, even as speed limits have continually been going up nation wide for years and years (slowly but surely). So the people with an agenda to bias you mention that absolute deaths rise slightly with rising speed limits while failing to note that traffic, congestion, and miles travelled increased dramatically; much more so than the amount of deaths. So when you apply a mathematical rate to the data, the truth comes out.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
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