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As far as the submitting-paperwork-7 times goes, how many deals did that happen to out of the three-quarter of a million that were done? Maybe the the dealerships and buyers just needed to take a bit more time and care filling out the paperwork before they received TAXPAYER MONEY!
Heck Gary, if some of the C4C rebates were given to people who didn't meet the criteria, you'd be complaining about about the taxpayers being ripped off.
According to the newspaper article I posted the dealer sent the exact same paperwork back 7 times as he knew it was correct. That kind of incompetence is our Federal government. A good reason for them to stay out of business entirely. We can already see they have done nothing to help GM and C. The dealerships are back to ghost towns around here. What was accomplished to really help the auto industry, longterm?
Sept. 15 (Bloomberg) -- “Cash for clunkers” may have just as fleeting an effect on U.S. retail sales as automakers’ no- interest loans did in the last recession, according to Dan Greenhaus, chief economic strategist at Miller Tabak & Co.
The CHART OF THE DAY shows sales figures for October 2001, when interest-free financing was initially offered, and the four months before and after the incentive took effect. Greenhaus had a similar chart, based on data from the Commerce Department, in a report today that drew the comparison.
After surging 6.6 percent that October, retail sales fell 2.7 percent the next month. The drop was the biggest on record until last year’s fourth quarter, when there were two monthly declines of more than 3 percent. Sales fell again in December 2001, were unchanged in January, and finally rose in February.
“Ultimately, this is the issue with one-time sales incentives,” Greenhaus wrote. “You pull sales forward.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aIWWbPVC5XAY
According to the newspaper article I posted the dealer sent the exact same paperwork back 7 times as he knew it was correct. That kind of incompetence is our Federal government. A good reason for them to stay out of business entirely. We can already see they have done nothing to help GM and C. The dealerships are back to ghost towns around here. What was accomplished to really help the auto industry, longterm?
You're assuming that this dealer is telling the truth? I always hesitate to judge when i only hear one side of the story without any visible evidence.
I agree with srs. this program went very smooth. This program was more popular then any of us predicted (myself included). The initial money was suppose to last 3 months. Instead it went in 2 weeks? I think we can chalk this up to too much demand and not incompetence.
Face it Gary, you would complain about this program no matter how it turned out :P
Edmunds.com Final Tally: Cash for Clunkers Buys, Trades; Ford Focus No. 1 Buy (AutoObserver)
Silly person, there was no taxpayer money. The Government just prints the billions it needs out of thin air when it wants to. Or haven't you noticed how everything is creeping up in price about a dime a month lately?
It has been nearly a month since the car-buying frenzy of the Cash for Clunkers program ended, and many area auto dealers are longing for the good old days of July and August.
But once the federal money dried up, so did the sales rally. Now, customers at dealerships like Silko Honda in Raynham are few and far between, and inventory is once again accumulating.
Manager Adam Silverleib said business was “pretty intense’’ as a result of the federal stimulus program, with the dealership hustling to accommodate customers and handle the piles of paperwork required for them to receive reimbursement on vouchers. “Now we’re kind of back to where we were in the spring,’’ he said.
Nationwide, customers snatched up 700,000 new cars, most of them foreign-made, and the government ended up paying out nearly $3 billion toward the purchases. But from the start, analysts predicted that Cash for Clunkers would not boost sales for the year. September’s sales swoon seems to be making their case. Car sales are usually slow after Labor Day, but because of the recession consumers this year are especially reluctant to say yes to major purchases. To make matters worse for dealers, most are still waiting for voucher reimbursements.
“It was probably, in the end, a complete waste of taxpayer money,’’ said John Wolkonowicz, a senior auto analyst at IHS Global Insight, Lexington forecasting firm. “The dealers, who were supposed to be the primary beneficiaries, many were forced into cash flow problems because the government didn’t pay them in a timely fashion.’’
From the outset, there were problems with the Car Allowance Rebate System. It was supposed to start July 1 but was delayed until July 24. The rules were complicated, and the list of qualifying vehicles and other requirements changed repeatedly. And in addition to the formidable paperwork, the government website set up to process the deals kept crashing, creating a backlog.
Ray Ciccolo, president of Village Automotive Group, which operates eight Boston-area dealerships, said he has received $400,000 from the government, but that is only half of what he is owed. Ciccolo was in Washington last week to hear Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood address the National Automobile Dealers Association. Ciccolo said LaHood pledged to have all claims paid by the end of this month.
“There isn’t much you can do except wait,’’ Ciccolo said.
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2009/09/19/car_showrooms_quiet_after_clu- nkers_clamor_ends/
It's like wanting a good can of soup and all that's in the stores is generic condensed soup. 40 flavors of it! What do you do? Right - you buy what you need to get you from point A to point B or just wait.
That's the entire problem with GM and Ford(and apparently Honda, Toyota, and others now). They make the cars *they* want to sell us. The cars they think we should be driving.
Not what we want. I seriously doubt if they even listen to the public or take polls any more. "This will be cool! The public will love it!" Yeah - maybe they should have asked what we wanted first. Because there's nothing in any of those makes that I just mentioned that impresses me or makes me actually want their cars.
So of *course* C4C failed. The 2010 models came out and virtually nothing at all had changed. "Next year" is what we heard last year and the year before and even ten years before. Europe still has better cars. We still get second-rate engines and options. They promise to change it but another year rolls around and nothing is actually done about it.
Seriously - this is about the least exciting new model roll-out that I can ever remember.
This program didn't only pull sales forward--it also brought some new customers into dealerships who wouldn't have thought of buying a new car otherwise. There are lots of people with that "used car" religion--some cheated a little because of this program. When all the numbers come out, I guarantee that the profit margin on these sales will be significantly higher than on non-C4C deals. After all, infomercials have proven that the best way to charge a sucker too much for something is to give him something "free" along with it. In this case it was "free" money for his junker. The customer pays more than he should have because he gets his free set of ginsu knives. The dealer makes out because he can charge more for the Sham Wows. The government provides the "free" knives. The only losers in the scenario are the taxpayers who pay for the swag...
Apparently fully 1/3 of all C4C sales were to people who weren't in the market, so that's several hundred thousand sales that were pulled forward......
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
CarMax' announcement that they earned record profits last month confirms what you just said.
They sell new cars as well, Toyotas locally.
I love how the Aston is brightly lit and everything around it is shadowed.
Hoax, folks, and not even a good one.
Unless the AM they claimed was clunked was a victim or a fire or something, I don't believe that one at all.
Any Aston Martin that would run would be worth a heck of a lot more than $4500.
But even then, someone would probably be willing to pay $4500 for a good engine. I don't buy it.
I think the grille and hood alone of that Aston would still be worth over $4500. It would make a cool coffee table.
"yeah, they traded it in on a Corolla!"
Some I could believe - an '85 Quattroporte? What a nightmare to keep running and to look at. Good riddance.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The sad reality is if the car has any significant mechanical fault, the market value is going to be below $4500 even if the car is immaculate. I can't imagine trading something like that for a rental grade box and feeling happy when I drive, anyway.
The trade-in rules were maybe too restrictive too. What's so special about 18 vs 19mpg?
I can't either, but wouldn't you agree that many, perhaps most, of the people who buy rental grade boxes couldn't afford the maintenance and repair on a Mercedes? Similarly, those few individual that traded their Mercedes for an econobox probably concluded that, going forward, the cost of ownership on their new car, after the rebate, would make more financial sense than repairing and servicing their old luxury car. Also, the purchase of an old Mercedes can't be financed.
That is also the reason why I still have my 12 year old Town and Country LXi. I find something somehow wrong in destroying something that is still very useful.
I'd rather have the Fit too (make mine a MT Sport).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Most sane people do(or should) set aside roughly a monthly payment aside for repairs. Then that $3000 repair would be a $1300 plus their savings if, say, they'd been saving for a year. Since automatics last at least 2-4 years, IME, between rebuilds, that's a lot of leeway for only $150 a month.
But yes, I can see a lot of people not doing that and tossing a perfectly good car because of a major repair.
But yeah, people should keep a reserve for repairs - but most people don't seem to save anything, nor actually do the maintenance that would prevent so many repairs from being necessary :shades:
So-called "cash-for-clunkers" programs surged in popularity across Europe after France introduced the idea in December 2008. Germany, Italy, Britain, Romania, Austria, the Netherlands, Spain and Serbia have had their own versions aimed at shoring up local auto makers
I wouldn't call a program that has only existed for months a long and semi-permanent fixture in the German automotive marketplace and indeed, it is now ending and Germany is looking forward with trepidation that sales will fall dramatically of new vehicles.
Please respond if you happen to see this post.... I'm not being snarky - I would just like to know what your basis was to remark that Germany has had a long history of doing "Cash for Clunkers", are you getting it confused with better trade in practices in that country that are not similarly enjoyed by the U.S.?
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/car-makers-to-assess-damage-from-clunker-afterm- ath-2009-09-29
The US has been too afraid to try this.
I'd happily pay more for gas if it meant reducing traffic significantly.
I thought it was obvious that I was talking about a worst-case scenario. ie - "They last at least 2-4 years".
If you set aside even $150 a month for car repairs, you'll have a huge nest egg to fix and keep almost any car running. Even a car like a Mercedes. Since you can't possibly get even a Yaris for $150 a month, this is a very good thing to learn how to do.
Note - they say that the average person will spend nearly 500K in car payments in their lifetime if they buy a new car every 5-6 years. That's just a lot of wasted money as far as I'm concerned.(I don't think I've spent 25K in the last 25 years cause I'm stingy and buy used vehicles)
High fuel taxes suck in Europe, but they'd be even worse here because of the increased distances.
Cash-for-clunkers gems: Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs and one infamous Bentley meet the end of the road
Ford’s sales were boosted considerably by the clunkers incentive, and the Focus was the fourth best-seller among new cars bought under the program. But many of its favorite cars of yesteryear were scrapped--most notably, the stable of Mustangs on the nation’s roads is considerably smaller. A total of 1,611 pony cars from 1984 to 2008 were turned in, including--surprisingly--one ’08 model.
The Blue Oval also saw the end of 107 Taurus SHOs from 1993 to 1999, and a whopping 3,061 Thunderbirds from 1984 to 1995. Stunningly, a 2005 T-Bird, one of the 1950s-styled coupes Ford brought back on a limited basis, also was slated for scrapping.
Luxury cars were not immune to the crusher, either. A 1999 Mercedes C43 AMG, a 2000 Jaguar XK8 convertible and a 1998 BMW Z3 Roadster will not be buffed or polished again. Additionally, two 1991 BMWs, a M3 and a M5 never again will be ultimate driving machines, and a slew of 7-series, including 100 from 1988, are done.
The Cadillac of clunkers was the Escalade, as 72 copies of the hulking, fuel-hungry luxury ute are toast, with 68 of those from the 1999 to 2000 model years. More than a little surprising: a 2006 STS sedan also received a death sentence.
The third Detroit-based automaker, Chrysler, was the victim of four of the newest clunker trade-ins. One 300 all-wheel-drive model from 2008, two from 2007 and a Hemi-powered ’05 all won’t live to see what plans Fiat has in store for their maker.
One owner of a 2006 Nissan 350Z also turned over the keys, as did those of two 2006 Roush Stage 3 F-150s. Two 2008 Foose F-150s also were among the customs that had a date with the crusher
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090929/CARNEWS/909299995
Just look at that list. How could an '06 STS be worth less than $4500? Or an '06 350Z? These are both worth in excess of $30K new, and are only 3-4 years old. And the assumption is that they were insured and registered for the road, so they were not totalled. And they had to be driven in. Four Chrysler 300s that were all less than 5 years old, including one Hemi, ANOTHER model that would have been more than $30K new?
I find it very puzzling.
The article, BTW, is confirming the report of the multiple 80s Maseratis being clunked, and the '97 Bentley Continental. I say good riddance to the Escalades; I only wish more of them had been clunked.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)