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Ford Focus hatchback

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Comments

  • projectzx3projectzx3 Member Posts: 256
    The TDI available in the Golf was a 'dog' when it came to acceleration (when i test drove it). I dont know what the actual 0-60 time is but it felt like 11 or 12 seconds. Surely you must be kidding or on something. For LESS money the ZX3 is without a doubt the better value...and i suspect a better automobile. Incidentally, i didn't see any VW Golfs in the current WRC standings. You are a victim of advertising and spent more money for less car.
  • jtaimjtaim Member Posts: 34
    Folks, don't listen to the last post. Go test drive both cars yourself. The TDI is a great engine. Is it worth the price difference over the ZX3? You decide. Unlike the previous poster, I found the TDI VERY NICE! It has loads of torque. It has more torque at 1900rpm than the Zetec has at 3500rpm. People used to gas engines will make the mistake of shifting late. Diesel engines work best UNDER 4000rpm or so, which means they feel very peppy off the the line.
  • bdshortbdshort Member Posts: 27
    I know according to the Focus pamphlet that the ZX3 will come with power windows as an option in Feburary, what about cruise control? Is this going to be available as an option? I notice on the sheet that the Comfort Package for the SE sedan has a speed control listed, is that the cruise control? It's not listed for the ZX3
  • silyboysilyboy Member Posts: 90
    according to a dealer i spoke with the cruise control will become available on the ZX3 in february, along with the power windows and mirrors. And yes speed control is the same as cruise control, it is the "modern" term for it according to most auto companies.
  • ertzogertzog Member Posts: 9
    Check:

    www.tdiclub.com

    for full info on the VW TDI powerplant. All VW TDI's are all 50 states compliant for emmisions. VW has decided on their own to not sell them in CA or NY due to fleet particulate emissions concerns. TDI's meet ELEV standards.

    The Feds are studying whether or not to endorse/encourage TDI Diesel technology for passenger cars as it is 60% more efficient than gasoline.

    Check the website.... Nobody that owns one (they are hard to get!) is anything but a raving lunatic for their cars - and the TDI technology that could save quite a few $ and dead dinosaurs.
  • bdshortbdshort Member Posts: 27
    Thanks for the response. If I can afford the sedan I think I'd go for that but if not the ZX3 makes a nice alternative, but I want it with power mirrors and windows, as well as cruise if I can get it.
    Still need to test out the protege though, but the Focus is showing promise. I also like the Corolla for relaibility but I want something that has a bit sportier handling.
  • jamers85jamers85 Member Posts: 100
    go to(below) for screen savers...and more..it's pretty cool...check it out
    www.multijac.com/services/saver.htm
  • brochetbrochet Member Posts: 4
    I notice that Ford offers a bumper to bumper warranty of 3 years - 60,000 kms (in Canada), but no additional warranty for Power Train. Other companies (Honda, Toyota, etc.) offer 5 years - 100,000 kms for their Power Train, and I understand that this is fairly common (an extra 2 years - 40,000 kms for power train on top of the basic warranty of 3 years - 60,000 kms). Does this mean that Ford doesn't have as much faith in its products as other companies, or doesn't it care about the message this sends to potential customers concerned with reliability?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I'm trying very hard to be objective here...BUT...

    Just returned from the car show. Spent a lot of time looking at the competition and saw a lot of nice cars!

    However, the Focus did NOTHING for me! Ho hum...

    I just don't see what the excitement is all about?

    Also...for the most part, the Ford display wasn't getting a whole lot of traffic except for the trucks.
  • agntsilkagntsilk Member Posts: 5
    how would the most expensive civic hatchback match up with the Focus ZX3?..
    top speed, 0-60, handling ect.
  • maynard7maynard7 Member Posts: 16
    Just bought 2 days ago a ZX3 in CD Silver with automatic at Crystal Ford in Silver Spring Maryland. Only $125 over invoice & no documentary fee.

    I'm happy with it so far & I recommend it highly. I do wish it had the tilt/telescope wheel, but I probably wouldn't have even noticed it unless I had read posts from others in this forum who can't seem to live without it. This is the only Focus model built in Mexico, so that is probably the reason the tilt wheel & power windows aren't available yet. I had tilt wheel on only one car and I don't ever remember moving it.

    I'm happy with the performance (especially considering that this is the cheapest car Ford sells in the US now). It rides great, is very nimble & for the moment is very unique. The darker interior color choice is much richer looking...be sure to see it before buying.
  • mznmzn Member Posts: 727
    Friends, let's confine our conversation to auto-related discussion. Thanks!

    carlady/host
  • leftybabsleftybabs Member Posts: 8
    Have been renting a car at 650+/mo waiting for a ZX3 (either manual or auto) to test-drive: as of 11/22/99 - still *none* avail - and not expected for at least 4-6 wks. I think my dealer is 'ripping me off' time-wise! Actually considering buying the rental to use as a trade-in! (LOL)

    Maybe I'll just 'concede the wait' and buy a Hyndai w/60-60 warranty - but ....

    I do not normally get 'excited' about cars - they *are* just transp (a golf-cart with hiway permit is good-as long as reliable?-lol) - but when I saw the 'paper' on the Focus - I DROOLED!

    Now, I can't even sit in one, let alone make a deal or take possession! How very disappointing!

    Was promised delivery of a 5-sp manual to test in mid Nov - now told mid Dec - with autos avail Jan 1 or later ...

    What are we, here in NJ, chopped liver? lol
  • wmichgradwmichgrad Member Posts: 28
    What car show did you attend?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Seattle. I even worked the Honda display for about three hours which is PLENTY!
  • brochetbrochet Member Posts: 4
    I would like to know what warranties Ford offers for the ZX3 in the States. I want to make sure that we get the same thing up here in Canada.
    - basic, "bumper to bumper" (years, miles)
    - powertrain (years, miles)
    - emission control components (years, miles)
    - rust perforation (years, miles)
    - surface rust (years, miles)
    - paint (years, miles)

    Also, I would like to know how often the oil needs to be changed for the ZX3. A salesman I talked to said that oil changes were scheduled for every 5,000 kilometers ("to make it easy to remember", was his justification). That sounds like a lot of oil changes to me, probably not necessary--that means changing the oil every 3,000 miles.
  • jamers85jamers85 Member Posts: 100
    to M A Y N A R D 7.....DOES THE INTERIOR HAS A SILVER TRIM?..LIKE THE ONES THEY HAVE IN EUROPE.
    ANYWAY....TO NEW JERSEY ...IF IT'LL MAKE U FEEL BETTER...I'M AT NEW YORK...WHEN I BOUGHT MINE MY DEALER SAID IT'LL TAKE 4 TO 6 WEEKS....THEN FIRST WEEK OF DECEMBER.....SO IM STILL HERE WAITING...
  • acartwriacartwri Member Posts: 14
    Just Bought a Black 5-Spd. Lots of fun. Has some definite VW/German influences. Feels solid as a rock…and a killer radio/CD player. Nice short throw shifter. Ton o' headroom. Great seats. Can't say enough good things. Ford finally did something right.
  • maynard7maynard7 Member Posts: 16
    To jamers85: The interior does have a "metallic" trim that the other models don't have. I think the ZTS has a wood trim & the other models have black.

    To leftybabs: Look on www.dealernet.com & you can search for ZX3's in dealer stock. Fuller Auto Group in Union City has two ZX3's. Malouf Ford in North Brunswick has 3 of them. A dealer in Wilbraham has one. There seem to be plenty in NJ, and not all dealers participate with dealernet.com You just type in your ZIP code & fill in the other fields. I got on the phone & called 20 dealers in Virginia & Maryland to get mine (I needed a car right now & just didn't want to buy a Honda).

    Good luck!
  • weslwesl Member Posts: 53
    Brochet:
    This is off the top of my head, but earlier this year I sold Fords and I do own a 95 Contour. As for warranty, the following generally applies. All Fords are covered by a 3 year/36K mile bumper to bumper warranty. The exception to this warranty is the battery coverage for one year/12k and then prorated after that and the tires which are covered by the tire manufacturer. Paint is covered for environmental damage for one year or 12K miles. Defects in the paint are covered under the bumper to bumper warranty. Emissions coverage on certain components like the catalytic converter(s) is covered for 8/80. The seatbelts and certain related safety components are covered for 5/50. Rust through, but not surface rust, is covered for 5/unlimited. Of course, Ford provides with every owners package a detailed warranty pamphlet. You also receive for the duration of the original warranty road side coverage. At least in the U.S., Honda warranties are no better and they do not extend additional warranties to the powertrain. The main difference that I know about is Honda coverage of seatbelts for the life of the vehicle, something Ford covers for only 5/50. As for oil changes, Ford recommends either a 3mo./3K or 6mo/5k oil change interval. Of course this program is discussed in detail in the owners package in a maintanence pamphlet. I hope this information is of use to you, and enjoy your new Ford. Later, Wes.
  • jamers85jamers85 Member Posts: 100
    thanx for the info.......do you plan to change the tire/rim size?......if you do and have done it, pls. share with us the info.
    Now i'm really psyched up with that car...i've ordered mine cd silver with dark interior.....the metallic trim will make it even more sporty and unique.
  • jamers85jamers85 Member Posts: 100
    I've shopped around for extra warranty....i found out that:
    www.warrantygold.com
    has the best offer so far. For 7yrs/100,000 with no deductible, roadside assistance for the life of your contract,and covering wear and tare also they've given me a price of 1,074 dollars. But this offer will only last until 11/30/99.
    If you find any better offer pls. post it.

    Bec. 3yrs/36,000miles manufacturer's warranty just
    seems too short......and plenty can happen between then and 3 years later.
  • dragwaydragway Member Posts: 34
    Went for a test drive of the ZX3 last night. Black, automatic, air, power door locks. Not bad for a first impression. The automatic isn't my first choice, but even with the air on it had some zip to it. Nice seats, not as solid feeling a car as the Golf. What do you want from a car that is $5000 cheaper. At least here in Canada. Much better than the Civic, especially in the room department. The steering wheel had a nice feel to it but was way to high. Tilt wheel when it is available should be standard or at least an option. Thats my two cents.
  • matcukmatcuk Member Posts: 8
    To the site administrator:

    I signed on today looking for the Focus Wagon site-- which seems to have been removed. Any info on this? Could you perhaps forward my message to that site's administrator?

    Also, I have an account of Ford customer service (it isn't pretty) regarding my attempts to find out about recalls and delivery date of the SE wagon I placed an order for in October (and may not get until sometime in 2000...).

    Let me know if you-- or those of you listening in on this-- would like me to post this info on this site.

    Finally, although I am no great bargainer, I did, with the help of the Edmund's site, get my car for about $300 below invoice. And I posted a message about how I did so on the wagon site in response to a person who said they were trying to get the invoice price for the car.

    Surprisingly, the person posted in reply a pretty rude email, indicating that he/she was not interested in the information I supplied. Another surprise: several people replying to that message seemed to think that $100 over invoice was a really good price.

    Any interest in my original post on the $300 below invoice deal? Let me know.



    Matt
  • projectzx3projectzx3 Member Posts: 256
    I paid 2% over invoice on my ordered and yet to be delivered ZX3. The car is so damn inexpensive to begin with I figured what the hell! Plus I've purchased from the same dealership (Bob Davidson Ford) before and the service dept. is fantastic. Waitng...in Baltimore...5 spd, Twilight Blue w/dark charcoal int, air, ABS, and side impact air bags.

    ps- i attended highschool with the owner....he's entitled to make a living! Also, if you missed my last post...I test drove a silver 5spd....very glad I ordered a ZX3!!!Get'm while you can!
  • projectzx3projectzx3 Member Posts: 256
    Yes I am still turning it into a 'project car'. I will enjoy the newness for a little while. Tirerack has a couple of wheel/tire applications; however, I feel 18" too much. Will go with a 17" aftermkt. wheel and 215/40 for spring and summer use so I have time. Will stay with the 15" wheel and 60 series for winter drivability. You do need some sidewall for inclement weather. Was just a thought for younger enthusiasts...same reason Martini Racing utilizes a 15" on loose surfaces.
  • lboltlbolt Member Posts: 4
    A note of caution for those who are changing tire and rim sizes: you can't change the total revs-per-mile on this car too much from stock, or else you can expect your "Check Engine" light to illuminate. Lower profile tires with a larger rim will only be OK if they closely match the total revs-per-mile on the stock setup, or else the EEC-V Control Module steps in and tells you there's a problem. Just thought you could use the info, since not all aftermarket retailers are scrupulous or knowledgeable enough to warn you about these things.
  • leftybabsleftybabs Member Posts: 8
    I really appreciate the sites/locations/dealers u listed - since am desperate to resolve this 'Flooded by Floyd' transp dilema (sp?). Had a feeling local dealer was 'jerking me around' because I am female - so now I have other options, all thanks to u! Smooches!

    hope to test drive/drive away with a focus this weekend, but, ...we shall see! lol
  • projectzx3projectzx3 Member Posts: 256
    the 215/40 on a 17" wheel should be 'exactly' the same revs as a 60 series on a 15". Good point though and worth mentioning.
  • johnhecjohnhec Member Posts: 8
    There are a number of sites on the Web for calculating optimal tire dimensions for various wheel rim sizes; here are some you might try (see which you like best: they differ in method, but not result):

    http://www.damocles.com/~kronvold/tiresize.html
    http://www.dsm.org/tools/tiresize.htm
    http://members.tripod.com/~CrxSi/tiresize.htm

    - John
  • vacrawfvacrawf Member Posts: 3
    YOU BET I think $300 below invoice is worthy of repeating! I apparently missed the first post from you on this, and would like to know how you proceeded. How about walking us through your calculations and/or how you presented them to the dealer???? Much appreciated - thanks!
  • projectzx3projectzx3 Member Posts: 256
    i personally do not feel any modifications are needed.I'll see how the struts etc. perform with the tire/wheel changes prior to any mods. ford put alot of money into the development of this vehicle so i am taking a wait and see approach on that. any thoughts are appreciated.
  • jamers85jamers85 Member Posts: 100
    thank you for the response............!!!
  • rmsabcrmsabc Member Posts: 17
    i ordered a wagon in aug
    the dealer is telling me
    dec delivery

    did you hear anything about further delays
    i ordered a zetec engine
    dealer said
    not taking orders for station wagon with ztec
    any more
    due to allocation of engine
    please update if any info
  • rsaavedrrsaavedr Member Posts: 2
    I wrote this in the sedans conference but I think it also makes sense here.
    First a word about the ads.

    I have been considering the Jetta GLS for a while
    but suddenly felt interested in the Focus when I
    read at Edmund's that it had been awarded the
    European car of the year prize. After learning
    that I started reading quite a bit about this car. Was surprised with the reviews about its merits: design, looks, ergonomics, interior space, performance, handling, price etc.

    Once I was *effectively* informed about the Focus
    I realized that I had not paid any attention to the TV ads. Translation: at least for me as a
    customer those ads are sheer useless. A real waste of F-150 money for Ford. I don't get any
    effective idea about the true merits and strengths
    of this nice car they are trying to sell with those ads, and most important, not even any motivation to figure out either. Just by chance I got attracted to the car browsing the web, then the TV ads were just a total disappointment, something to avoid. Those ads just don't measure up with the product, and I think they are either targeting the wrong audience or missing important audiences to say the least. Well, given the available info on the web probably that whole TV mess is a winner marketing strategy, but I really don't think that's the case.

    That said, tomorrow I hope to finally be able to
    test drive a ZX3 and a ZTS. From the pictures I've been able to see online I prefer the hatchback which is also cheaper. Would have no doubts if the performance 200hp Euro version of the hatchback was sold here in the US.

    Some people here have pointed out the risks of
    being a first time buyer and buying a new model.
    Honestly at least so far I feel willing to assume
    that risk with this car. But will let you know
    after the test driving. Cheers
  • lboltlbolt Member Posts: 4
    It's a good bet that Ford is holding back Zetecs to try to sell more SPI engines in the coming months. The Zetec has outsold expectations thus far, and Ford's Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) measurements are thrown off. Imagine that: a so-called expert doesn't know what the public will buy! The slightly poorer fuel economy of the Zetec means they'll lose ground on CAFE, and they'll have to offer a larger proportion of SPIs and hope people are willing to switch.

    With respect to suspension tuning, the car is set up stock to ride a little stiffly. Any lower profile tires will probably give you a rougher ride. It would be up to you whether the new ride is too jarring. A quick fix may be to bleed a pound of air out of the tires.
  • rsaavedrrsaavedr Member Posts: 2
    Today I went to the Ford dealer in Pensacola Florida. Unfortunately they don't have ZX3's, and won't have them till February, so I had to drive an SE. The stickers on some of those SE's claimed the cars had Ztec engines inside, I didn't know they were including the ztec's in the SE's or is it because the low power version of the motor is also called Ztec?

    I agree with all what I have read about handling, it's really sharp. Ergonomics are also well considered, I am 6:2 and absolutely no problem, neither at the front nor the back seat, enough head and leg room. The only issue I was not too happy with for this car was the engine which I found rather loud. But then again, it was probably the real high end Ztec inside. The car was peppy indeed. Another thing, I think the sedan looks nicer in person than in pictures. In general I was not too attracted to the sedan looks from the pictures, in person it looks much nicer. I still want to try the ZX3, have to find other dealers nearby. Cheers.
  • lboltlbolt Member Posts: 4
    The SE has both engine options, so you have to look closely at the sticker to see what it's got (or pop the hood). The lower end engine is called the SPI and has something like "2000 Split Port Induction" written on the cam cover.
  • clayman1clayman1 Member Posts: 41
    I'm not a car guy and was wondering about the merits of a ZETEC engine, pro and con. I understand the ZX3 comes standard with a 130Hp engine. That's good I believe.
    I'm considering a purchase of the ZX3 because of a rave review from the Auto reviewer in the local paper.
    Are there any reports from Europe about maintenance problems and wear and tear?
    I currently drive a 93' Mazda 323 hatch.
  • surfh2osurfh2o Member Posts: 4
    I ordered a ZX3 in early Nov. being told that cruise control was not an option. Now I am hearing that it may be an option as early as Feb. Is this true? If I receive my car without it, can a dealer eventually intstall one? I've heard that this can be done on other vehicles...
  • matcukmatcuk Member Posts: 8
    Below is the post I sent (mid November) to the "station wagons" topic, which describes how I got a pretty good price on the Focus wagon I placed an order for.

    Please note that I am not criticizing others who may have paid more for their cars-- depending on local availability, and how quickly you want to get your hands on your car, what others have paid may well be different. But this worked for me, and, as I note, I don't necessarily pride myself on my haggling skills.

    Finally, as I calculated it, the dealer still made roughly $400 on this sale, so I think he made a respectable profit. Good luck.

    *********original message***********

    I just ordered a Focus SE wagon and paid about $300 below invoice. I'm no expert haggler (and certainly don't enjoy haggling) but if you did what I did, I think you can get a better price than $100 over invoice.

    1. Find true dealer cost---
    Take your dealer invoice price (from Edmund’s site-- these figures are accurate!). Subtract dealer holdback (for Ford, 3% of MSRP, including all options) Add $415 destination fee. Add whatever the dealer says is the advertising cost passed on to them by Ford (I think my dealer told me this was $160. This fee, like everything, is negotiable, so I preferred to say that I would simply pay it, but get my money back by getting an overall lower price on the car.)

    2. Figure out how much money the dealer is making on this car---
    Take the above number and compare it with the price the dealer is quoting you (exclude taxes and license from both). Tell the dealer that because you are placing an order for this car, and will, presumably, pick it up the day that it arrives on his lot, you understand that the holdback fee is pure profit for the dealership. Your dealer should be agreeable to making about $300-$400 on this car. He will not like it, but he should agree to it.

    3. Compare bids---
    Whatever price he gives you, take his quote, tell him that you need to think it over for a day, get the auto section of your local paper, and call the nearest 4 other Ford dealers. Call them, give them the exact quote from the first dealer, but not the name of that dealer, and tell them that you are placing an order within the next few days from the dealer that gives you the lowest price. Tell them that you are calling four other dealers in the area. Do not discuss financing. Do not go to the dealership.

    4. Give the first dealer a chance to beat it---
    When you get the lowest price, take it back to the
    first dealer, and offer them the opportunity to beat it-- they, after all, spent the most time with you. If they do not match or beat the price, call back to the dealer with the best price, re-verify everything down to the penny, asking for a full price breakdown. Have them fax it to you if possible. Go to that dealer and place the order.

    Good luck, and let me know if this works for you. You can email me directly at matcuk@fmnh.org.

    Matt Matcuk
  • vettemanvetteman Member Posts: 5
    Hello. I was lookin' at the new Ford Focus and I couldn't help but notice that they don't even OFFER power windows. Doesn't it seem odd that a CD player is stardard but power windows aren't even an option. I currently have a '93 Grand Am SE (sad, isn't it?) and it has manual windows and, call me lazy, i just don't like them. Does this seem odd to anybody else why Ford would do this, or am I just weird? Especially with how great this car is.
  • silyboysilyboy Member Posts: 90
    they are only not on the ZX3, and they will be offered begining in february 2000. the ZX3 right now has a very limited list of options (which myself and apparently many others feel is a HUGE mistake) but they will be expanding this list in due time.
  • projectzx3projectzx3 Member Posts: 256
    As stated earlier, I ordered a ZX3 back in October. I will miss some of the options that 'may' be available at a later date. My Ford dealer still says no and they have checked with the regional office. However, I really feel this car is going to be a major player in re-directing the sport auto enthusiast market for years to come. Will it make the car valuable down the road??? Who knows. The 64 1/2 Mustangs which were 'bare-bones' are among the rarest (barring the Shelby of course)and there are alot of similarities as far as the way Ford is introducing the ZX3 and the way they did it way back in 1964. My delivery date is Dec. 6th and I'll keep everyone posted!
  • mznmzn Member Posts: 727
    I'm one of those folks who HATE power windows so I if the next round of the Focus has them, I hope they are an option.

    carlady/host
  • kjtgkjtg Member Posts: 49
    I could do without power windows. But not cruse control..
  • badtz_bbadtz_b Member Posts: 6
    I guess the power window is an option. Last friday, my friend and I went to buy this ford focus LX(basically, 5sp, A/C) After rebate and all the discount we could ask for, the price is $12,340 tax included.. hope that this is the best deal we got after going to 6 different dealers.
    So, just want to let you all know. and
    we love the car.. it's well built and I think we got more than what we paid for(my friend was going to buy KIA sephia, but, fortunately, I told her to take a look at Focus and she changed her mind)

    This is a great car...
  • leftybabsleftybabs Member Posts: 8
    U r a sweetheart! I went to the dealernet.com site u recommended, but could not connect - went back to the local dealer, and we 'made a deal'.

    I got a 2000 Focus ZX3 ( EXACTLY the make/model I wanted) but with no auto trans and color not chosen - but got a 'deal' with price - plus extras that will prove to be 'invaluable'(i e free loaner if needed while servicing, free anti-theft etching which cuts ins costs, etc). lol

    As of today, I drive a 2000 Ford Focus ZX3 hatchback - and am 'tickled pink' that everyone (male or fem) who sees it can only drop jaw and respond *WOW! WHAT IS THAT? GREAT CAR!!!!!*

    BTW: *test drive* was from dealer to workplace - couple of 'funny stories about the wipers and no knowlege of how to 'shift to reverse'? lol

    It is an absolute 'DREAM' to drive - even manual -(shifts like cutting warm butter with a hot knife)-...

    I could go on and on raving, but then u all would think me a Maniac! lol If u find it, BUY IT!

    (PLEASE NOTE! THAT was the 'emotions speaking - but I Love It! lol)
  • projectzx3projectzx3 Member Posts: 256
    there is a little 'latch type' device under the shifter head. while holding the shift knob slip your fingers down and pull up simultaneously and go over to reverse. quite easily managed...i like it.
  • tickbittytickbitty Member Posts: 250
    I'm talking myself into a focus hatchback. Have driven a little truck for 10 years, now I need a little extra space for a passenger and the dog. Have been looking for a good used low mileage small wagon or hatch. Find that for anything decent with under 50,000 miles, seems to be running 11,000$ and up. I figure this about puts me in the category for a new low-end car, right? Like the focus for the hatch, and particularly the higher seating, since I'm used to the truck. I also think the Focus is cute and "different."

    Here's my question to those of you who have one of these: Am I dreaming if I think I can get a ZX3 with AC and ABS brakes, and get out of the dealership for UNDER 13,000? WIth tax and everything coming to under 13? Thats the only way I could possibly justify it to myself, otherwise I'm back to looking at the used escort wagons, Civics, or (ugh) a hyundai. Would appreciate any input on how to talk my dealer into this under 13 "all inclusive" price.

    Also, anybody seen one of the coppery orange ZX3s? How do they look?

    Thanks!
This discussion has been closed.