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Cash for Clunkers - Does it Work for You?

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Comments

  • cyclone83cyclone83 Posts: 60
    Somewhere around 125000
  • zaheerzaheer Posts: 23
    I looked into the details of Cash for Clunkers and it was interesting to see that a 19-year old car does not qualify. I have a 1990 Maxima with over 170K miles which should have been a perfect "clunker" to trade-in for a new car. However, the EPA mileage rating on the Maxima when new is 19 mpg. It does not matter that I probably get a lot less mpg on the car right now but due to the 18 mpg maximum requirement for C4C, this car does not qualify. If I was in Germany, they would have gladly taken in the trade-in since their Clunker program does not look at gas mileage, only the age of the trade-in (10 years or older).

    It is disappointing to see a program that is so narrow in focus which may not really help American car manufacturers since most of the high gas mileage cars are Japanese or Korean. If the intent was to help U.S. car manufacturers (especially GM and Chrysler), it should not have been combined with the gas mileage requirement.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    There has to be a cutoff somewhere and for sure whereever that cutoff is the person with a vehicle that's one mpg higher will not be happy.

    Also think how bad all the real guzzlers from that era are in comparison to your Maxima. If you've fallen from say 19 mpg to say 15 mpg a 91 Chevy 1500 began at 15 mpg. It's probably scraping by at 10 mpg now.

    The intent was to help all the automakers, and all the parts of the transaction from raw material supplier to parts maker to auto maker to trucker to clean up crew to salespeople to dealers to state tax revenues.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,457
    Lets see just counting Chevy alone and not counting multiple trim or engine levels they have 14 different vehicles that qualify. The Cobalt XFE gets good enough mileage to pick up the $4,500 voucher and I bet the Hybrid Malibu does the same.

    Toyota has 16 vehicles by my count, I am not counting the Solara as it is a 2008 model and being discontinued, so not really a big difference there.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,238
    I doubt that you are going to get any concession on the scrap value.
    Dealers are gonna look just to unload whatever they get and a smart scrap yard will just low ball them on a value. Plus, they probably won't even deal with it until after the deal clears anyway,so they won't even know what, if any money they are going to get.
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,299
    How did you do all of this when the program hasn't even gone into effect yet?
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,299
    Spot on Volvo, we will probably pass on a deal if some one really wants to waste the time to negotiate the scrap value of an old POS car. This process is already looking very time consuming for the dealership as it is. The more I read the less excited I get.
  • woodahwoodah Posts: 1
    I have good credit and make a good (6-figure) salary. I'm just not much of a car guy. I've been driving my '88 pathfinder forever because it never broke down. I don't like dealerships and just never got around to getting a newer car. However, this incentive looks pretty good. I was interested in an IS, but it appears only Toyota is processing the trade-ins, not Lexus. I can understand that I may be an anomaly, and that dealerships need to make decisions based on group behavior, but it is frustrating for me.
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,299
    The NHTSA statement has a footnote that "Allocation of any remaining scrappage fees is subject to negotiation between the dealer and the purchaser."

    I just reread this on the web site. This applies to the negotiations between the dealer and the purchaser of the POS car, not the you the consumer, but the scrap yard. So there is no foot note stating that you the consumer can negotiate what the dealer may or may not get for your clunker. You are getting $3500 or $4500 and thats it.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,238
    You have to remember that the Germans have different priorities. Hardly any car in Germany gets poor gas mileage. Their big issue is CO2 emmissions. New cars are WAYY better at that then even 10 yr old ones.
    If I had written the US regs I would have had an age or gas mileage provision. Any car over 15 yrs old or any with a mileage under 18 combined MPG.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,238
    Are you sure that no Lexus dealer is participating?

    If not, that is understandable. Not too many people driving a qualifying car will have the bank account to sign for a new Lexus.
    No flames please, just because YOU might be the one guy who can doen't make you representative of the ar buying public at large. Dealers ALWAYS play the odds.
    For the average Lexus dealer, even one of these sales might be seen as too much of a PITA to bother with.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,345
    Amazing, isn't it?

    People will receive 3500-4500 for their POS junkers yet some will still want to quibble over scrap value?

    I think we will be lucky if they don't charge us to haul these cars away!

    I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    While our 1990 LS400 would qualify for the C4C program at 18 MPG. A new LS460 would not as it only gets 19 MPG. Not much improvement over the last 20 years.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 15,378
    i am thinking the same thing.
    $50 is going to make it worth your while?
    the scrap value will probably cover the lot storage until it is taken away.
    2020 Ford Explorer XLT, 2019 Lincoln MKZ Reserve 1
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 15,378
    the ceiling for msrp is 45k, so that excludes a lot of lexus inventory.
    2020 Ford Explorer XLT, 2019 Lincoln MKZ Reserve 1
  • standfanstandfan Posts: 2
    Its like people who are afraid to make any real money because they will have to pay taxes on it. Typical, focus on the unimportant.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,457
    Well the car went from 3,700 lbs and 250 hp in 1990 to 4,400 lbs and 380 horsepower.

    I think getting one mpg combined is a pretty good improvement for a car that weighs 700 lbs more with 130 extra horsepower.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    What is more important the LS460 would have a CD player that the 1990 does not have. I could not in good conscience use the LS400 in that program. I know it would never bring $4500 in trade. It is the fact that it runs great has all original paint no dings or dents and has always been garaged. We drive it more now than any other vehicle we have. It still only has 98,500 miles. Took it to Balboa park today for free day at the art museums. A CD player would be nice or XM. One gas guzzler Obama ain't gonna destroy.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 52,601
    You could probably find a period Nakamichi unit for that LS for not a lot of money, and it should slide right in and look stock. If you don't use the ashtray, a satellite unit could be installed there.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,457
    And as usual you ignore the point of my post.

    That car has improved substantially. There is no way a nearly 400 hp 4,400 lbs car would get 19 mpg combined in 1990.

    Off the top of my head I can't even think of a 380 hp car in 1990 that wasn't an exotic or the ZR1 corvette and honestly I would consider the ZR1 an exotic.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,918
    Not a bad idea. Congress can always change the parameters if they renew the program later this year.
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJPosts: 10,379
    That Lexus is like so many cars over recent years. They could have made them more economical but until last year more hp was a better selling point than better mpg.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • jwm40517jwm40517 Posts: 226
    Seems to me that the only case that scrap value would matter is if it was more than $3500. or $4500.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,450
    Thank you, that seems to go over most people's head. I would rather have a luxury Lexus that gets 30 MPG than one that does 0-60 in 7 seconds or less.
  • I am also considering Mazda5 but Edmunds has rated as a passenger car and not Cat1 truck. It is, however, listed as minivan on the gov't websites.
  • ldislerldisler Posts: 83
    Mazda5 is a Catagory1 Truck. I e-mailed KBB.Com because they also had it wrong, and they replied that it is a Cat. 1 truck.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,238
    Car makers build what the public wants. Until recently(and it has ALREADY gone away) the public wanted more power and features as opposed to more MPG.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 40,774
    IMO, the public mostly doesn't know what they want, or even what they have. They just get sucked into ads, and peer pressure.

    Most people don't come close to using what they already have, and frankly wouldn't noitce +/- 50 HP. They would, however, notice getting 5 mpa extra!

    Heck, the average Lexus owner? Yo ucould probably unplug 1/2 the spark plugs, and they wouldn't notice!

    same with handling. many people would soil their pants if they hat a ramp at .4 g's, never mind .8, and really don't need 40 series tires!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • jmonroejmonroe Pittsburgh areaPosts: 8,989
    People will receive 3500-4500 for their POS junkers yet some will still want to quibble over scrap value?

    I guess I never really appreciated the term "grinder" or when you said a "lousy $100".

    OK, I get it...now. :sick:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    Car makers build what the public wants.

    They certainly ought to after spending so much money forging those public wants with compelling advertising campaigns. :P

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • degirldegirl Posts: 45
    Some Lexus dealerships are participating they even have links to the C.A.R.S. website on there homepage. Some of these post are so judge mental and pretentious. I beleive there are many people that will use this incentive to purchase a new car. Keep in mind the program has a MSRP cap of 45,000.
  • mvs1mvs1 Posts: 462
    Car makers build what the public wants. Until recently(and it has ALREADY gone away) the public wanted more power and features as opposed to more MPG.

    They shouldn't listen to the public. If Henry Ford did, they would have told him they wanted faster horses.
  • bigbbdbigbbd Posts: 5
    With only 2 million of the rebates available, is there a way to track how many have been used? I am not impressed with the incentives right now and believe 09 incentives will get better when '10 vehicles begin rolling out. But I do not want to miss out on getting $3500-4500 for my vehicle.
  • philliplcphilliplc Posts: 136
    if there were 2 million you certainly could wait. unfortunately it's only 200-250K so i wouldn't wait long unless you're willing to gamble that the program will be renewed or extended.
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,299
    is there a way to track how many have been used?

    So far 0 have been used because it hasn't started yet :D
  • philliplcphilliplc Posts: 136
    as far as hyundai is concerned it has started
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,299
    They are crazy. As confusing as it is and considering the rules are not in place it could cost them $19500 per unit that they screw up. Hogs get fat, pigs get slaughtered.
  • jmonroejmonroe Pittsburgh areaPosts: 8,989
    as far as hyundai is concerned it has started

    They don't count. I thought we were talking about real cars here. :)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • greanpea68greanpea68 Posts: 1,996
    But with the $4.5k rebate when I move to a more fuel efficient sedan, I'm looking at buying this year and a new car instead. Based on quotes for Nissan Altima 2.5S cars, I can get one for ~$14k out the door, so I still end up paying about as much as I would have for the new car

    Since I work at a Nissan Dealer I can only assume your $14k out the door includes the Govt. rebate of $4500..... ;)

    I just don't want consumers believing that they can buy a Altima new for $14k... that is how trouble starts :surprise: ;)

    I wish you the best of luck.... I do have to commend on your quest to get the deal for your money..... LOL, But as far as money to the dealer for scrappage profit.... seriously????? Are you kidding me? That is the first I heard of a dealer recieving profit for the scrap metals..... I believe the scrap yard will just benefit from that. this bill is supposed to help everyone out.... from manufacturers, dealers, tow companies, vendors, and scrap yards...... Why can't you just be happy with the $4500 you are recieving form the bail out. If everyone satrts chipping away at every little doolar than no one will progress... and that is what this is all about right? Progress in a positive way?!?!?!

    anyway good luck in your transaction!

    GP
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Posts: 1,996
    How did you do all of this when the program hasn't even gone into effect yet?


    LOL.... I hadn't even heard of the profit being made on the scrap metals.... Some people never quit.... It just cracks me up :P

    On the other hand I have 3 deals pending the whole CFC program. For the record no one asked for a extra discount on the scrap money profit ;)

    I try to suggest to people to start shopping now and make deals now so you can have the avialibilty of vehicles.... I have a feeling this last week of August is going to be bell to bell every day plus some time..... I can't wait to see what my bonus check looks like next month :shades:

    GP
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Posts: 1,996
    For the average Lexus dealer, even one of these sales might be seen as too much of a PITA to bother with

    Exactly..... Keep in mind consumers.... this will be a PITA :sick:

    I know everything sounds honky dory but there is a reason that the GOVT is putting all the responsibility on the dealers.... they don't want to deal with it either. People should be happy it didn't stay at the original idea of having a tax credit :surprise:

    GP
  • jmonroejmonroe Pittsburgh areaPosts: 8,989
    People should be happy it didn't stay at the original idea of having a tax credit

    C'mon now GP, you know that idea was doomed from the start. Buyers would never go for waiting that long to get the scrap value for their POS.

    No...the government knows how to sell cars. Now we have to wait to see if they know how to make them. :confuse:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • greanpea68greanpea68 Posts: 1,996

    No...the government knows how to sell cars. Now we have to wait to see if they know how to make them


    Speaking of waiting....... We will be one of the dealers who will be signed up this program.... The funny thing is we are still "waiting" to find out how this program will work and go into effect.... It is less than a week away and MNGT is not sure what is going to happen :sick:

    GP
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,299
    we still don't have a clue either
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,238
    If advertising could make people buy cars, GM wouldn't have gone bankrupt. People actually DO know what they want.
    Why is this hard to believe?
    The hard part is the manufacturer knowing what the public wants and being able to deliver it.
  • exb0exb0 Posts: 539
    They won't miss an opportunity to screw someone over. This is an email advertisement trying to talk people out of using cash for clinkers program. Of course it is formatted nicely with lots of pictures of rusted out cars.

    Did you know that if you wait for "Cash For Clunkers" to kick in Honda will be at an all time low with inventory?

    Did you know the government is only allowing 250,000 "Cash For Clunkers" transactions in this country. There are 300 million people in the United States alone!

    This program could be over in 1 day!

    Do you know your trade in has to run?

    Do you know you have to have owned and insured the car for one full year!

    If you wait, you will miss out on this opportunity.....so what is Honda Of Tysons Corner doing about it?

    How about no restrictions!

    How about now, while we still have inventory!

    How about a $3,500 guarantee on any trade regardless of miles, make, model, how long you have owned it, if it runs or condition!

    Drive it, push it, pull it or tow it in!

    $3,500 for any trade in period. Ends 7-23-09


    Here is the small print:

    Must purchase a new Honda at the manufactures suggested retail price plus the cost of any dealer installed accessories if applicable. Can not be used towards the purchase of a Fit or Insight. One trade per transaction. This offer can not be combined with any other offers or special finance rates.
  • philliplcphilliplc Posts: 136
    sleazy yes, but potentially not a bad deal if you're trading a $500 piece of junk for a low-end civic.
  • exb0exb0 Posts: 539
    It is not a good deal even if you do have $500 trade in.

    Small print says you have to purchase at MSRP and you are not eligible for special interest rate.

    For example, Accord LX spread between MSRP and invoice is just over $2500. There is another $1500 in intensives. Therefore if you just do an invoice deal (which is a nobrainer, no negotiations required type of deal) without a trade in, you will be $500 better off. And that is not taking into consideration the special interest rates that you will be forfeiting if you go with their program.
  • philliplcphilliplc Posts: 136
    it could be a good deal on a civic depending on how much the dealer would normally go below invoice -dealer cash. in my area they don't. low end civics only have <$1500 spread between MSRP and invoice, and dealer cash is $1000 and it's not combinable with special interest rate (at present), so you'd be at least $500 better off at MSRP -$3500 trade vs. invoice -$500 trade -$1000 incentive.

    yeah it's a rip off on accord, figured it would be.
  • jmonroejmonroe Pittsburgh areaPosts: 8,989
    The hard part is the manufacturer knowing what the public wants and being able to deliver it.

    And not ignoring your customers when you know you didn&#146;t &#147;deliver it&#148; right when you made it.

    If you have a minute go look at my post 12522 over on Stories from the Sales Frontlines. Given GM&#146;s problems, I&#146;d be willing to bet I wasn&#146;t the only customer they turned their back on.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

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