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Finally got our GLX 4motion Wagon today It was actually somewhat fortuitous that an area dealer got one in stock. Apparently, they had swapped cars to get our Indigo Blue / beige wagon for another buyer. However, when it arrived this buyer ended buying a New Beetle !?! The downside is that it ended up with over 300 miles on the odometer due to the transfer plus pinstriping (although its actually not a bad looking job that includes a little VW logo just over the front tire well)
But, those two are outweighed by everything else the car has to offer !!! For $31,500 out the door (all taxes, tags and title) this car is great!! Many of the features can also be found on its luxo-brother's (the A4 and A6 avants) but for a substantial lower price. Let's see, there's the: -EDL -Auto climate control -Rain-sensing intermittent wipers -Real wood trim -Power front seats with 3 memory settings for the driver - and this is also programmed into the individual switchblade key fobs! -Heated leather seats -Heated mirrors and wiper nozzles -Power Folding mirrors -Full size spare with matching alloy rims -The same "neat" but wimpy cupholders -etc... The suspension and handling are just in between the A4 and A6 avants... not too firm and not too soft. The interior is vault-like quite even during acceleration and at highway speeds.
I ended up going through an internet buying service called Stoneage.com. The dealer's initial offer was a "no-hassel internet price" $1200 over invoice. However, since I wasn't in too much of a rush, I waited and looked around. A week later the car was still there -- I (and the salesperson too) think that it was because of the particular town that the dealer was in -- it's dominated by American pickups and SUV's. I ended getting them to sell for about $1000 over invoice along with dealer costs on any accessory.
Well, I'll stop rambling now. I'm planning on getting the windows tinted later in the week. I'll try and get some pics posted afterwards.
We have a 99 Passat sedan (V6). I'm not a big car person and my husband did all the research on that purchase. Didn't care what I drove, but I like the car a lot and I am the primary driver. He drives a Honda Civic wag-o with 165k on it that needs to be replaced soon.
I drive a lot (sales) so comfort, fun (now that I am spoiled) and safety are important. We have 2 dogs and 2 small children so the sedan is getting cramped (love 'em all, but I'd prefer the dogs out of my face). I mentioned replacing hub's Honda with a small SUV or wagon. Well... he is jumping on a prime opportunity to take my Passat.
We are looking at Subarus - have heard good things and are impressed with recent reviews. He favors the Forester for its AWD (although I doubt we *need* it). I'm trying to be practical, but am having a hard trading my Passat for a Forester. Also looking at Legacy/ Outback and considering luxury options to improve the appeal. Passat wagon with AWD would be a good compromise. Our hesitation is that this is a new feature for VW, however, I have heard that it was first developed for the Audi quattro. Does anyone know how long Audi has had AWD?
Since we already have a 99 Passat, we fear "putting all our eggs in one basket". Have heard a few horror stories about Passats, but not enough to scare me since we haven't had a major problem (with only 12k). I'm not crazy about the VW dealers we have encountered. Ours was annoying at the time we purchased (I'm in sales and I know sleazy techniques when I see them). We did have a minor problem the first week, which would be forgotten by now if the dealers (local and the one it was towed to where the brakes fried) had chosen to grasp the opportunity to endear themselves to us by providing good service. Any car can have a glich - I once had a major problem with a new and very expensive car, but the service was incredible so all was forgiven. I like the Subaru dealer better but we haven't experienced their service dept.
Did anyone with my preference for style, handling and comfort choose Legacy over Passat (and why)?
Only complaint about the Passat itself is the light gray upholstery. I like a clean care and the kids are rough on it; dog hair doesn't come off easily. Subaru has woven cloth, velour, and leather on various models. Does anyone have a preference or problem with an interior?
I don't like the 2-tone on the Subarus but I've heard they now have monochrome exterior avail. True?
First of all the Audi quattro systems dates back to 1981. They have had them as an option for Audis and various VWs since then, and presently they are on Quattro IV/V. Check out this link for a very detailed description of AWD:
As far as what to go with, check out each model. You won't go wrong with any of the ones that you mentioned. The Passat sedan has done slightly better than the Legacy/Outback in crash tests -- taking one of the top spots in the IIHS offset tests.
If you're looking for luxury features, as I mentioned above (#103), you'll get plenty with the GLX trim. In fact we had also looked at Audis, Volvos, and the Saab as well and thought that the price of the Passat was a bargain compared to those luxo names. That's not to say that the Outback limited didn't have nice lux trimmings as well -- it does, and its better compared to the previous generation!
As to wheather or not the less expensive outback limited is better than the Passat AWD ?? IMO that boils down to personal tastes. Scroll thru this posts and you'll read everyones thoughts, but you'll ultimately need to get in each one and see how the car "fits" you and your hubby. I personally go not get comfortable in the Outback Limited thus the choice was easier for us.
You're right about VW dealers though, in general they have become somewhat arrogant due to the popularity of their cars. Add to the limited supply of V6 wagons, and gettin a "good deal" has been more difficult compared to buying a Subaru. If you should decide on the VW, than I would be more than happy to give you some other tips!!
AFAIK, monochrome exteriors are available on the Legacy wagons eg. L, brighton, and GT. However, despite the GT being the top of the line leather seats are not available. Can't comment on the cloth seats though since I didn't look at those.
I'm not sure about Canada, but here in the States there is no "Legacy GT Limited Wagon" just a "Legacy GT Wagon" that comes with grey moquette cloth only. 'We' do have the "Legacy GT Limited Sedan" that does come with Leather interior...and looks like a great AWD sedan I might add.
I was more or less wrong (I forgot we were talking exclusively about the wagons). Up to 99, the GT wagon was available in Canada with a leather package which more or less made it a 'GT Limited Wagon' - although it was not officially named as such.
Leather appears to have been deleted from the options list for the 2000 GT Wagon.
Did anyone with my preference for style, handling and comfort choose Legacy over Passat (and why)?
Patti,
My wife and I were torn between a Passat wagon and a Subaru Legacy or Outback, too. I like the exterior style of the Passat and the Legacy L & GT but not the Outback's two-tone. I like the Passat's interior roominess. To me, it seemed the rear seat had more in the Passat than the Legacy, but I don't think EPA interior volume numbers support this assertion. I believe the EPA cargo space numbers are greater for Passat than Legacy.
I don't like the Passat's knob controls for the front seat recline (prefer a quick-action lever like the Legacy). I haul large items (computer monitors) in the back and I found the Passat's seat base (squab, the horizontal piece) hard to restore to the sitting position (seat belt stalks are hard to thread through the slots in the seat base); the Legacy design is easier to fold/unfold. Passat rear seats are 60/40 split. Legacy seat back (vertical) is 60/40 split but the base is full length, so you won't have a completely flat cargo area when folding down only one of the seat backs (as you do in the Passat).
Passat cup holder is flimsy (glad I read about it in Consumer Reports or I might have missed it); the distance between the holder (supports the side of the cup) and the fold-down bar (where the cup rests) is only about an inch. A coffee cup in that configuration with stop-and-go rush hour driving will topple over. We didn't want to spend >$25K for soiled carpets
Legacy cup holder on the dash is sturdy; another in the console has a retractable tab to brace smaller cups. Cup holders are silly to many, especially Europeans (right, James? but I like to enjoy a cup of coffee w/out dumping it on myself.
I'm not convinced Passat is up to the reliability of Legacy. According to Consumer Reports, the newer Legacy's have better repair records than Passats. VW has a longer warranty than Subaru (can't probably pull the numbers off the top of my head) but it applies to the original owner only.
As George said, the US GT Limited is a sedan and not available in the wagon. Aftermarket leather is a possibility; I've read it's about $1,000. I'd be concerned about quality, so ask for (and look at) references.
Passat has more power than the Legacy but with the manual transmission I think acceleration is more than adequate (this is very subjective). Some think Legacy w/automatic acceleration is fine; others find it sluggish. Passat requires premium fuel; Legacy uses regular.
I had wanted the Legacy L but my wife talked me up to the GT and I'm glad she did. I was never into wheels until I saw the aluminum alloy wheels of the GT; they're sweet. GT has a "sport-tuned" suspension; it handles the twisties very nicely. Unfortunately it's her car so I only get to drive it when I buy groceries.
If you're considering a Passat or Outback, I encourage you to drive a Legacy GT.
Hope this helps in your decision; it's just (a lot of) my USD 0.02 -- apologies for the length.
Although cup-holder design was never a factor when car shopping (hence the 98 GT), I'm actually now getting to like the 'coffee on the move' experience. Getting the right cup size appears to be the key. And I hate the acrobatic in-dash thing in the 2000 Legacys - it's too small for my preferred vessel (the half pint stainless steel insulated mug). And I find my arm frequently hits a mug the larger holder next to the parking brake.
I'm actually a bit fed up with the 2000 auto L sedan loaner. I still haven't got my own car back yet. Something more serious than worn plates has happened to the clutch (being fixed under warranty) that has required parts to be airmailed from Toronto. I will post details when I speak to the service manager.
JP, you've got a good point about the size of the vessel. I'll try a different cup on the in-dash holder. BTW the Saab 9-5 has a similar design. I could see how the console holder would get in the way of the parking brake. I rode in a 98 Audi A-4; the owner said she must remember to not put anything in the passenger seat lest she take a right turn (perhaps a spirited one!) and have her portfolio slide into the console, emptying coffee onto her lap. The A-4 cup holder design looks adequate to me so I was surprised she had trouble. She's able to overlook the cup holder issue because the car's a blast to drive!
Read closely when comparing warranties between Passat & Subaru line. The VW std warranty is 24mos or 24000 miles, only the powertrain warranty is (I believe) 10yr or 100k. Subaru std warranty is 36mo/36k, powertrain is 60k. I'm sorry...(not really:-)) but a paltry 2yr warranty does not bode well for conveying an image of quality. Also...remember...the manufacturers that have initiated long powertrain warranties in the last couple of years, have done so to rebuild or create the image of a quality product. Some of the other manufacturers that have recently begun long powertrain warranties are Hyundai and Isuzu. Subaru has not chosen to offer a std long-term powertrain warranty because they haven't had to...their vehicles hold up well to the test of time.
Subaru offers a longer than average warranty too, 3/36 bumper to bumper and 5/60 powertrain. Plus you get 3 years of roadside assistance free.
I don't think the Boxer 4 is outdated. The 2.5l came out in '96. It was revised in '97 to run on 87 octane (thank goodness, have you seen the price of premium fuel?). That was called the Phase I.
The Phase II came out in '99 in the Forester and 2.5RS and in 2000 in the Legacy/Outback. It switched to a SOHC design, but keeps 16 valves and has more low end torque than its higher revving predecessor.
So it's not outdated, really. It's just pulling too much weight in certain models. The Outback has huge tires which effectively give it taller gearing than the Legacy GT (7% to be exact). It also weighs more. The Outback Limited weighs 505 lbs more than my Forester does. Huge difference!
The Outback needs the H6, and it's getting one.
With that in mind, I think the Forester or Legacy GT would supplement milford1's Passat sedan nicely. You can get a 2001 Forester Limited with a HUGE moonroof for under $25k easily. It also aced the IIHS crash test, and it's bumper basher test too!
The Passat 4Motion wagon is going for $31.5k as per above. Don't get me wrong, it's a sweet ride, but that's WAY out of the price league of the two I'm recommending.
As for reliability, Subaru wins here. The Passat 1.8T is "better than average", matching the Soobs. But the Passat V6 is only "average", and adding 4Motion only increases the likelihood of mechanical failures.
Besides, isn't having two Passats kind of a waste? I like to own cars that serve different purposes. My ideal fleet would be a roadster for fun, a Subaru for outdoor activities, and a minivan for space.
> I like to own cars that serve different purposes. My ideal fleet would be a roadster for fun, a Subaru for outdoor activities, and a minivan for space.
I have to agree with you on that statement. Although I would also need a 4 dr sedan for any other activity that doesn't fit the above vehicles!
>The Passat 4Motion wagon is going for $31.5k as per above. Don't get me wrong, it's a sweet ride, but that's WAY out of the price league of the two I'm recommending.<
You're right about the pricing difference! I would also have to say that these cars serve different purposes despite being wagons of some variety. For us off roading, going to the mountains for the weekend, etc. just doesn't happen for us down here in Alabama. However, we did need the room for the occasional trips to our local Home Depot, vacations, and for all those kids gear. Additionaly, we wanted some degree of a "luxury factor" without having to get a luxo name alternative (eg Audi, Saab, Volvo) -- this would have probably gotten the attention of my senior partners and made them wonder if they were paying the junior guy too much ! If you compare the Passat to these makes, then it is a bargain!
Exactly. The Passat is indeed an excellent alternative to near luxury competitors, and it really can hold its own.
I spent a lot of time looking at wagons at the local auto show, and the two that really stood out to me were the Passat and the Legacy.
Quite honestly, they outclass the V40, Saturn LW, and A4 Avant. To me, only the A6, V70, and E320 showed a measureable advantage over them, and just take a peek at their pricing.
Legacys go for $18k to $28k or so, Passats are more like $22k to $32k or so. I'm sure pretty much anyone can find their niche within that price range.
I am from Europe so I don't understand. Why exactly do you need a 4-door sedan in addition to an upscale sports-wagon, a roadster and and a mini-van. Surely the versatility of the wagon makes a sedan superfluous. It can't be a problem of comfort, quietness, size, handling, performance (Volvo raced wagons in Touring Cars in the UK), etc...your Passat wagon is comparable to any higher-end sedan on the market. Maybe it's appearance or image related. However, the best wagons always seem to me to look better than their sedan counterparts, e.g. A4, A6, Volvo 70 series, maybe even Legacy or Passat.
Or am I missing something.
By the way, my wish list would include a genuine off-roader, plus a motorcycle or two. But the wagon is the last one I'd give up.
Its in part because we are in the States -- This past week, when people have asked us about our new car, we get one of two general response: 1) the unenthusiastic "oh, that's nice" 2) "I didn't know that VW made a station wagon -- does it look like a Jetta / Beetle?!?"
More importantly, one of my favorite cars is a Lexus GS400. Until Lexus decides to make a Variant model, then I guess I'll have to settle for the sedan.
My husband talked me into looking at the A6 Quattro. Yikes! Nice interior (almost identical to our Passat sedan). Dealer couldn't justify the extra $10k+ (over Passat). He made vague comments about quality and retaining value. Anyway, unless someone hands me $45k to spend, its not going into a car. What would my clients think? Good think the extra dog who licks me while I drive (which is what started this dilemna) was practically free - $100 for the very handsome and loveable registered champion K9; $45k for the wagon to haul him around!
Yeah, the cup holder in the Passat is weak. When we first got the car I put paper between the cup holder and the carpet just in case. Dog 2 made quite a mess when he ate a paper coffee cup while I paid for gas. Now I just spill coffee and clean it up later. I saw another really weird cupholder - on the Outback I think. Pops out of the control panel; looks weak. Maybe if Europeans drank coffee in the car there would be design improvements.
I'm still pondering AWD. In a mild climate, I don't see the point. We should probably go drive some cars and see how they feel. We have only driven the Forester - it was kind of fun. I guess mostly I object to the front grill and the square shape (too much like the rusty Honda). Huge moonroof got my attention though. The dealer here says she never gets Foresters with such lux.
That Audi dealer must have been smoking crack. Resale? Are you kidding? Audis depreciate like yesterday's newspaper.
Quality? Lately, yes. He should stick to luxury and styling. I think the A6 is the prettiest sedan on the road.
The Passat's cup holder was just featured in the car issue of Consumer Reports among the poor designs. Who cares, though? We should pay more attention to the road anyway.
AWD (including 4Motion & Quattro) have plenty of benefit in dry conditions. Instead of steady understeer, handling is more neutral. FWD overburdens the front tires with steering and acceleration, while AWD distributes the load. Weight distribution also improves, and torque steer is nonexistent.
And that's when it's dry! Then there's snow, rain, sleet, icy conditions, sand (well, for the lifted Soobs anyway), gravel, dirt roads and muddy trails.
I'm going to the Outer Banks this summer, so hopefully I'll take some cool pics on the beach, and share them with you.
How is the interior of the 4motion for sqeaks and rattles after driving it for a while. I have a 98 New Beetle and have to say I,ve been disappointed with the number of rattles, ( hatch, doors, dash). Dealers have been no help. The interior of the passat seems of high quality. But what about after the first year?
We bought our Passat sedan in July and haven't experienced any squeaks or rattles. I am easily irritated by noises and (what others would consider) petty annoyances. The Windstar we traded for the Passat drove me to tears. When it "thought" there was a door open, it would beep incessantly and the interior lights would flash. Even after slamming all the doors I could find, cursing, and begging for mercy, it would continue to scream - sometimes for a couple of days. It rattled. It squeaked. The power window and wiper contols had to be replaced several times. There were frequent recalls (e.g., the sliding door might fall off, or the hood could fly up on the freeway). I love my Passat. The only button I thought I had trouble with was the remote unlock for the truck. The Audi dealer pointed out that you must hold it down, not click it (Audi remote/key is identical.)
My husband likes the car so much he defends the cup holder.
We picked the Outback and we are thrilled. I have comfort with the quality that would never have had with the VW we were about to buy.
Read the Subaru topics and then read the VW topics on Edmund's Town Hall. The Subaru owners are generally in love with their cars, something that is missing from the VW posts on the whole. I read about ebery VW topic post when we were looking, and reading so many was what "drove" (ha ha) us to the Subaru.
I have had a VW and have had close friends with them too. History says that they slowly fall apart. Same problems on 70 beetles and 80s Golfs (door locks, bumpers, doors sag on hinges, door handles, exhaust problems); but the engine will keep running. The Passat feels nice, and it certainly is really cool looking, but I am not such a gambler (anymore).
The Subaru is less refined; but it fits our lives more. We are not looking to impress anyone else, and we dont want to cry when the dogs track mud all over the seats (or when we do).
And, we got our Outback for 200 bucks UNDER invoice.
John, "The Subaru owners are generally in love with their cars, something that is missing from the VW posts on the whole."
Glad to hear that you're happy with your choice. I agree that many of the posts tend to be pessimistic towards the Passat due to VW's history. However, one visit to www.vwvortex.com and one can find very satisfied Passat owners chating about their cars.
That is certainly true. And certainly a ton of people love their Passats. But I tend to feel that Edmund's site has a broader spectrum of participants, and probably more objective ones.
Those who point their browser to a site like vwvortex, or any other brand-specific enthusist site, are probably doing so _because_ they love their cars. The more average car buyer/owner is drawn to Edmund's for other reasons.
Your Ford story reminds me of my Escort GT. Fun little car, but so many squeeks and rattles you just learned to live with it. My Forester is squeek-free!
VW has improved a lot recently. The 1.8T is rated highly in reliability, though the V6 is slightly worse than average per CR. Check out the new auto issue; it has about 15% more problems than average (still not bad).
Though I have to agree with George that VW owners seem just as enthusiastic as us Soob nuts. Even back in my rec.autos days, vw was the first to get their own topic (rec.autos.vw).
You know why? These are both cars with tons of character.
I'm interested in getting a 2000 Pasaat Wagon. I have mixed stories as what gas it requires. What have you been told? What is your experience or thinking about the 4 vs the 6? Also, what about AWD? Does AWD help in wet weather? We get little snow in this part of NC and anyway I am any experienced driver in snow having lived all my life in the northeast. Is the extra money worth it for AWD? Has anyone purchased at dealer invoice price or wholesale price?
I've only driven the 1.8T, and it felt peppy with the 5 speed, not so much with the Tiptronic.
Both use premium fuel. You may be able to burn a lower octane, but the engine may retard the timing to compensate, and therefore produce less power, perhaps even be less efficient. I'd stick with the premium recommendation for the turbo motor.
AWD comes only with the V6, and it certainly does help in wet weather (and snow, and gravel, and dirt trails). AWD costs $1650, so only you can determine if it's worth it.
AWD also reduces understeer, and eliminates torque steer. It helps distribute weight more evenly fore/aft, as well as the work load so that the front tires aren't doing all the steering and acceleration.
I'm going to NC this summer and plan to hit the beach in Outer Banks, and you can bet I'll appreciate AWD then.
We bought a V6 GLS wagon with TIP and couldn't be happier. If you plan on getting a stick the 1.8T will be fine. We opted for the six because of the automatic and I wanted the added and linear power. The TIP wagons I drove with the 1.8T seemed a little sluggish starting out till the boost was up. With the stick you can control that.
I'll say the gas mileage in town is nothing to write home about (I had TDI Jetta which probably spoiled me with regard to mileage). Both take Premium as Ateix3ira says.
We're in Southeastern VA and I'd recommend you save your money and not get the 4Motion. I don't think it's needed. We had a 4WD wagon in the DC area and found our FWD was sufficient for all but the worst snow. In VA and NC the FWD is enough in my opinion.
As for price, the longer you wait the cheaper it will be. There is a forum topic on prices.
I think that George (tzretusn) hit the major point about the V6 vs the 1.8 T. The V6 also feels more refined and the NVH is a touch better than in the 1.8T. We opted for the AWD even though we presently live in Birmingham. During our shopping process, we drove both the FWD and AWD versions of the GLX. The AWD model not surprisingly feels heavier, most notably from the start. However, once at cruising speeds (in the city or the highway) the V6 provides enough torque to allow you to pass effortlessly. We felt that even in dry conditions the handling characteristics afforded by the AWD was noticable enough that the cost of owning one was justified. But, I would not recommend 4motion to every buyer -- if you're interested in it, drive both versions and see if you can notice any difference with your particular driving style. If not, then go with the FWD model and save yourself $1650 plus an additional 2+ MPG in the city & highway.
As far as pricing goes, from what others have reported in VWvortex.com you don't have to pay MSRP. As far as "dealer price" goes, Edmunds says that the 2% holdback no longer exists. If you're looking at the 1.8 or GLS V6, people seem to be getting these for about $300-$800 above invoice (not MSRP) price. A GLX with tip can likewise be purchased for that amount, while a GLX with the stick (a rare one in N. America) seems to command a higher price (but certainly not MSRP). Most dealers in general are not dealing as much on the GLX 4motion but I have heard of people getting them for as low as $300 above invoice. Many dealers who I called during my search were asking about $500 below MSRP. Also it seems as if many of the deals are in the Midwest, while the East and West coasts are more difficult areas to negotiate prices. BTW, we purchased ours for ~$1000 (~3%) above invoice with accessories at dealer cost.
I think the passat wagon AWD is what i'm looking for. I'm wish the reliability were as good as Honda or Toyota, though. Does anyone know if Toyota or Honda will be coming out with AWD wagons or vans? Thanks in advance.
AFAIK, an AWD wagon (or FWD wagon for that matter) will most likely NOT be headed our way. Primarily because of the SUV trend, both makers are focusing their attention towards this arena. The Honda Odyssey won't have AWD because of their magic third row seat precludes this option.
Having said that, the closest AWD vehicle to a wagon will be the introduction of some new hybrid SUV's in the next few year. Lexus has the RX300, but toyota apparently will be making a "scaled down" version (Highlander?). Honda/Acura will be introducing the "RX fighter" presently known as the MD-X probably later this fall.
I don't think you'll get any arguement about the reliability of VW vs Honda/Toyota. However, the reliabilty has improved compared to a decade ago, and is probably now avg to above avg. Although the basic bumper -to-bumper warranty on VW's is only 2yr/24K, the "powertrain" warranty of 10yr/100K was reassuring for us to get our first VW. If you really wan't an AWD wagon, I would also encourage you to check out the Subaru models ie. Legacy GT wagon and Outback wagons, as the reliability of these seem to approach that of the Honda/Toyotas.
I'm with George. I have a 5spd 1.8 that does fine in wet weather. I think tires are certainly an important factor in that situation. I would not get the AWD just to help you in case you get stuck in a blizzard or monsoon. With continued global warming, those types of events might be more common, but if you get the more fuel effecient 1.8 (I get 23-24 in town and 29-32.5 on the road), you'll be saving money as well as slowing climate change to to greenhouse gas increases. You should feel great about that!!!
thanks for the response. I currently have a vw fox and jetta, and reliability has been about average i suppose. I'm a Californian moving to Mass., and i know i'm going to have to learn how to drive melllllowww in the snow/ice or probably die! My wife's from Mass., so she should do ok. Anyways, the AWD should help prevent getting stuck in some situations. I really like the ride of vw's, I just wish they had better reliability. Maybe subaru will come out with a better wagon or van. Thanks again.
Hello.....newsflash. My 00 Outback Ltd wagon rides as well, actually better over rough road than the Passat wagon. I was willing to trade some acceleration/handling for better reliability (v-6), better ride, more std features, better dealer network, and better price (especially vs AWD Passat, it's true comparison). There's not much to improve on the Subaru except for offering more power. If this is what you were referring to than ignore my rant.
I would also check out the Legacy GT, as other Soobie owners have suggested that this might be a better comparo to the Passat in terms of suspension, handling, etc. I won't argue with Stephen on the point that the Outback handles better on rough roads -- the higher ground clearance and suspension have been set up to allow for those conditions. The Passat's suspension is more firm (although not to the degree of let's say a BMW), but it still manages to insulate you from normal road conditions -- Just my 0.02 on the matter.
If you like the Outback, but feel it needs more power (especially if you prefer auto trans.) and you can wait 'til Fall 2000, Subaru will be offering a 217hp 6-cyl. that should raise the go-factor considerably. The trade-off: it may only be in a special limited edition model, packed with lux features and priced accordingly (loaded '00OB Limited range?).
Despite the usual first-model-year caution, I will probably order one the day they're announced.
for the tone of my post. I really do like the Passat but for my needs it would have to be the GLX 4-motion and that combo is out of my price range. I also wouldn't get the extra ground clearance that I needed. This doesn't diminish the greatness of the Passat, it just doesn't fit my needs as well.
no need to apologize...I didn't think the tone of your prior post was "malignant" in any fashion. Both the Soobies and the Passat are great wagons -with owners that are passionate about their cars -- just be thankful that there are these choices available !!
We have pretty much decided to go with the Subaru. I don't like the dual moonroof on the Ltd., so we are are thinking about an Outback upgarded with all-weather, and after-market leather and moonroof. The car we looked ar already has upgraded stereo too (not sure if this is an asset). Turns out to be a $300 less and seems all we are missing is the side airbag and different color wheels (we didn't like the gold anyway).
We are wondering what the going % over invoice is. Dealer (who seems honest) says 3.5% and he will show us the invoice. Does this sound reasonable?
Anything anyone wish they thought about before the purchase?
Can't tell you much about pricing, but you may want to check the Subaru Legacy & Outback Topic for more info. 3.5% above invoice is not bad, but I recall reading that other owners have purchased their car at near invoice pricing.
If you do look in to getting an aftermarket sunroof, you should look into Hollandia Sunroofs.
Hubby used his veto power on my suggestion to wait until I fall in love with a car. I even offered to drive the Honda! He pointed out that I can't make decisions, and that once its mine I will love it.
He is a professional shopper (really). Called the fleet manager and got $100 over invoice on our choice. The saleman we talked to over the weekend said 3.5% over, so thats a pretty good deal. The GT without auto seems quicker than the Ltd. so I'm driving them both one more time...
I do get to select the aftermarket moonroof and leather.
And we do purchase stock, Ramon. I leave it up to him to choose 'cause he's almost always right.
I drove the Outback again, with 5-speed and zero passengers. It felt more like *my* car. Took it on some winding roads - I really love the way it handles! But it does need a moonroof. I bottom'd out the Passat on a bad driveway this morning. I guess I need the extra clearance.
So... my Outback is on a truck heading for the lot. It should be delivered Monday, but we're getting the moonroof and leather put in so I won't get it until the end of the week. Now all I need is a hands-free cellular phone so I can shift. Okay, I'm excited! The dogs are too. The kids are pleased that Dad is getting rid of the "funky" car.
We countered the 3.5% and ended up paying $300 over invoice in Santa Cruz. Dealer says we fit the Subaru profile! I got Stevens Creek (San Jose) down to $100 over invoice but I still don't like them and I've learned not to buy a car from someone you don't like (e.g., our VW dealer). Santa Cruz Subaru has excellent customer satisfaction ratings and offers free scheduled maintenance - well worth the extra $200 IMO.
We didn't purchase the extended warranty. Hope I don't regret that. We had an extended warranty on the Ford Windstar nightmare. It only extended the greif - if I had to pay for all the repairs we would have dumped it sooner.
Thanks for all your help, guys! Hope there's some snow left somewhere. Yes, he is pretty lucky, juice, 'e teimoso'!
Now you sound like the Subaru is the car for you. Glad folks here could help you along the decision process. Hope you don't abandon us now that you're machine is en route.
congratulations on your purchase,my 2000 gt limited is my first subaru, i'm now pushing 9000 miles, with my '98 intrigue gathering dust in my garage.i purchased the subaru sight unseen, apart from some photos in popular science. the car fits me like a pair of hand made shoes, and i drive it daily on the weekly commute to work and for weekend recreation. i keep toying with the idea of trading up to an h6, but my gt is a delight to drive, i get 25-26mpg,no problems only three oil changes so far, with the 7500 mile service, i feel guilty even thinking about trading it. i can appreciate your feelings about your ford, as i owned two new lh cars,both with extended warranties, a multitude of problems( a new transmssion in each) and dealer and chrysler stone walling. the subaru topics are frequented by a great bunch of owners, who offer valuable advice and information. they are by far the best topics in edmunds.good luck with your new subaru.
Comments
actually somewhat fortuitous that an area dealer
got one in stock. Apparently, they had swapped
cars to get our Indigo Blue / beige wagon for
another buyer. However, when it arrived this buyer
ended buying a New Beetle !?! The downside is
that it ended up with over 300 miles on the
odometer due to the transfer plus pinstriping
(although its actually not a bad looking job that
includes a little VW logo just over the front tire
well)
But, those two are outweighed by everything else
the car has to offer !!! For $31,500 out the door
(all taxes, tags and title) this car is great!!
Many of the features can also be found on its
luxo-brother's (the A4 and A6 avants) but for a
substantial lower price. Let's see, there's the:
-EDL
-Auto climate control
-Rain-sensing intermittent wipers
-Real wood trim
-Power front seats with 3 memory settings for the
driver - and this is also programmed into the
individual switchblade key fobs!
-Heated leather seats
-Heated mirrors and wiper nozzles
-Power Folding mirrors
-Full size spare with matching alloy rims
-The same "neat" but wimpy cupholders
-etc...
The suspension and handling are just in between
the A4 and A6 avants... not too firm and not too
soft. The interior is vault-like quite even during
acceleration and at highway speeds.
I ended up going through an internet buying
service called Stoneage.com. The dealer's initial
offer was a "no-hassel internet price" $1200 over
invoice. However, since I wasn't in too much of a
rush, I waited and looked around. A week later the
car was still there -- I (and the salesperson too)
think that it was because of the particular town
that the dealer was in -- it's dominated by
American pickups and SUV's. I ended getting them
to sell for about $1000 over invoice along with
dealer costs on any accessory.
Well, I'll stop rambling now. I'm planning on
getting the windows tinted later in the week. I'll
try and get some pics posted afterwards.
George
I drive a lot (sales) so comfort, fun (now that I am spoiled) and safety are important. We have 2 dogs and 2 small children so the sedan is getting cramped (love 'em all, but I'd prefer the dogs out of my face). I mentioned replacing hub's Honda with a small SUV or wagon. Well... he is jumping on a prime opportunity to take my Passat.
We are looking at Subarus - have heard good things and are impressed with recent reviews. He favors the Forester for its AWD (although I doubt we *need* it). I'm trying to be practical, but am having a hard trading my Passat for a Forester. Also looking at Legacy/ Outback and considering luxury options to improve the appeal. Passat wagon with AWD would be a good compromise. Our hesitation is that this is a new feature for VW, however, I have heard that it was first developed for the Audi quattro. Does anyone know how long Audi has had AWD?
Since we already have a 99 Passat, we fear "putting all our eggs in one basket". Have heard a few horror stories about Passats, but not enough to scare me since we haven't had a major problem (with only 12k). I'm not crazy about the VW dealers we have encountered. Ours was annoying at the time we purchased (I'm in sales and I know sleazy techniques when I see them). We did have a minor problem the first week, which would be forgotten by now if the dealers (local and the one it was towed to where the brakes fried) had chosen to grasp the opportunity to endear themselves to us by providing good service. Any car can have a glich - I once had a major problem with a new and very expensive car, but the service was incredible so all was forgiven. I like the Subaru dealer better but we haven't experienced their service dept.
Did anyone with my preference for style, handling and comfort choose Legacy over Passat (and why)?
Only complaint about the Passat itself is the light gray upholstery. I like a clean care and the kids are rough on it; dog hair doesn't come off easily. Subaru has woven cloth, velour, and leather on various models. Does anyone have a preference or problem with an interior?
I don't like the 2-tone on the Subarus but I've heard they now have monochrome exterior avail. True?
First of all the Audi quattro systems dates back to 1981. They have had them as an option for Audis and various VWs since then, and presently they are on Quattro IV/V. Check out this link for a very detailed description of AWD:
http://www.eskimo.com/~eliot/awd.html
As far as what to go with, check out each model. You won't go wrong with any of the ones that you mentioned. The Passat sedan has done slightly better than the Legacy/Outback in crash tests -- taking one of the top spots in the IIHS offset tests.
If you're looking for luxury features, as I mentioned above (#103), you'll get plenty with the GLX trim. In fact we had also looked at Audis, Volvos, and the Saab as well and thought that the price of the Passat was a bargain compared to those luxo names. That's not to say that the Outback limited didn't have nice lux trimmings as well -- it does, and its better compared to the previous generation!
As to wheather or not the less expensive outback limited is better than the Passat AWD ?? IMO that boils down to personal tastes. Scroll thru this posts and you'll read everyones thoughts, but you'll ultimately need to get in each one and see how the car "fits" you and your hubby. I personally go not get comfortable in the Outback Limited thus the choice was easier for us.
You're right about VW dealers though, in general they have become somewhat arrogant due to the popularity of their cars. Add to the limited supply of V6 wagons, and gettin a "good deal" has been more difficult compared to buying a Subaru. If you should decide on the VW, than I would be more than happy to give you some other tips!!
AFAIK, monochrome exteriors are available on the Legacy wagons eg. L, brighton, and GT. However, despite the GT being the top of the line leather seats are not available. Can't comment on the cloth seats though since I didn't look at those.
Hope the info helps
George
JP
I'm not sure about Canada, but here in the States there is no "Legacy GT Limited Wagon" just a "Legacy GT Wagon" that comes with grey moquette cloth only. 'We' do have the "Legacy GT Limited Sedan" that does come with Leather interior...and looks like a great AWD sedan I might add.
George
I was more or less wrong (I forgot we were talking exclusively about the wagons). Up to 99, the GT wagon was available in Canada with a leather package which more or less made it a 'GT Limited Wagon' - although it was not officially named as such.
Leather appears to have been deleted from the options list for the 2000 GT Wagon.
Congrats on getting the Passat
JP
Patti,
My wife and I were torn between a Passat wagon and a Subaru Legacy or Outback, too. I like the exterior style of the Passat and the Legacy L & GT but not the Outback's two-tone. I like the Passat's interior roominess. To me, it seemed the rear seat had more in the Passat than the Legacy, but I don't think EPA interior volume numbers support this assertion. I believe the EPA cargo space numbers are greater for Passat than Legacy.
I don't like the Passat's knob controls for the front seat recline (prefer a quick-action lever like the Legacy). I haul large items (computer monitors) in the back and I found the Passat's seat base (squab, the horizontal piece) hard to restore to the sitting position (seat belt stalks are hard to thread through the slots in the seat base); the Legacy design is easier to fold/unfold. Passat rear seats are 60/40 split. Legacy seat back (vertical) is 60/40 split but the base is full length, so you won't have a completely flat cargo area when folding down only one of the seat backs (as you do in the Passat).
Passat cup holder is flimsy (glad I read about it in Consumer Reports or I might have missed it); the distance between the holder (supports the side of the cup) and the fold-down bar (where the cup rests) is only about an inch. A coffee cup in that configuration with stop-and-go rush hour driving will topple over. We didn't want to spend >$25K for soiled carpets
Legacy cup holder on the dash is sturdy; another in the console has a retractable tab to brace smaller cups. Cup holders are silly to many, especially Europeans (right, James?
I'm not convinced Passat is up to the reliability of Legacy. According to Consumer Reports, the newer Legacy's have better repair records than Passats. VW has a longer warranty than Subaru (can't probably pull the numbers off the top of my head) but it applies to the original owner only.
As George said, the US GT Limited is a sedan and not available in the wagon. Aftermarket leather is a possibility; I've read it's about $1,000. I'd be concerned about quality, so ask for (and look at) references.
Passat has more power than the Legacy but with the manual transmission I think acceleration is more than adequate (this is very subjective). Some think Legacy w/automatic acceleration is fine; others find it sluggish. Passat requires premium fuel; Legacy uses regular.
I had wanted the Legacy L but my wife talked me up to the GT and I'm glad she did. I was never into wheels until I saw the aluminum alloy wheels of the GT; they're sweet. GT has a "sport-tuned" suspension; it handles the twisties very nicely. Unfortunately it's her car so I only get to drive it when I buy groceries.
If you're considering a Passat or Outback, I encourage you to drive a Legacy GT.
Hope this helps in your decision; it's just (a lot of) my USD 0.02 -- apologies for the length.
Mike Smith Silver Spring MD USA
..Mike
Although cup-holder design was never a factor when car shopping (hence the 98 GT), I'm actually now getting to like the 'coffee on the move' experience. Getting the right cup size appears to be the key. And I hate the acrobatic in-dash thing in the 2000 Legacys - it's too small for my preferred vessel (the half pint stainless steel insulated mug). And I find my arm frequently hits a mug the larger holder next to the parking brake.
I'm actually a bit fed up with the 2000 auto L sedan loaner. I still haven't got my own car back yet. Something more serious than worn plates has happened to the clutch (being fixed under warranty) that has required parts to be airmailed from Toronto. I will post details when I speak to the service manager.
JP
Mike
..Mike
I don't think the Boxer 4 is outdated. The 2.5l came out in '96. It was revised in '97 to run on 87 octane (thank goodness, have you seen the price of premium fuel?). That was called the Phase I.
The Phase II came out in '99 in the Forester and 2.5RS and in 2000 in the Legacy/Outback. It switched to a SOHC design, but keeps 16 valves and has more low end torque than its higher revving predecessor.
So it's not outdated, really. It's just pulling too much weight in certain models. The Outback has huge tires which effectively give it taller gearing than the Legacy GT (7% to be exact). It also weighs more. The Outback Limited weighs 505 lbs more than my Forester does. Huge difference!
The Outback needs the H6, and it's getting one.
With that in mind, I think the Forester or Legacy GT would supplement milford1's Passat sedan nicely. You can get a 2001 Forester Limited with a HUGE moonroof for under $25k easily. It also aced the IIHS crash test, and it's bumper basher test too!
The Passat 4Motion wagon is going for $31.5k as per above. Don't get me wrong, it's a sweet ride, but that's WAY out of the price league of the two I'm recommending.
As for reliability, Subaru wins here. The Passat 1.8T is "better than average", matching the Soobs. But the Passat V6 is only "average", and adding 4Motion only increases the likelihood of mechanical failures.
Besides, isn't having two Passats kind of a waste? I like to own cars that serve different purposes. My ideal fleet would be a roadster for fun, a Subaru for outdoor activities, and a minivan for space.
-juice
> I like to own cars that serve different purposes. My ideal fleet would be a roadster for fun, a Subaru for outdoor activities, and a minivan for space.
I have to agree with you on that statement. Although I would also need a 4 dr sedan for any other activity that doesn't fit the above vehicles!
>The Passat 4Motion wagon is going for $31.5k as
per above. Don't get me wrong, it's a sweet ride,
but that's WAY out of the price league of the two
I'm recommending.<
You're right about the pricing difference! I would also have to say that these cars serve different purposes despite being wagons of some variety. For us off roading, going to the mountains for the weekend, etc. just doesn't happen for us down here in Alabama. However, we did need the room for the occasional trips to our local Home Depot, vacations, and for all those kids gear. Additionaly, we wanted some degree of a "luxury factor" without having to get a luxo name alternative (eg Audi, Saab, Volvo) -- this would have probably gotten the attention of my senior partners and made them wonder if they were paying the junior guy too much !
George
I spent a lot of time looking at wagons at the local auto show, and the two that really stood out to me were the Passat and the Legacy.
Quite honestly, they outclass the V40, Saturn LW, and A4 Avant. To me, only the A6, V70, and E320 showed a measureable advantage over them, and just take a peek at their pricing.
Legacys go for $18k to $28k or so, Passats are more like $22k to $32k or so. I'm sure pretty much anyone can find their niche within that price range.
-juice
I am from Europe so I don't understand. Why exactly do you need a 4-door sedan in addition to an upscale sports-wagon, a roadster and and a mini-van. Surely the versatility of the wagon makes a sedan superfluous. It can't be a problem of comfort, quietness, size, handling, performance (Volvo raced wagons in Touring Cars in the UK), etc...your Passat wagon is comparable to any higher-end sedan on the market. Maybe it's appearance or image related. However, the best wagons always seem to me to look better than their sedan counterparts, e.g. A4, A6, Volvo 70 series, maybe even Legacy or Passat.
Or am I missing something.
By the way, my wish list would include a genuine off-roader, plus a motorcycle or two. But the wagon is the last one I'd give up.
JP
1) the unenthusiastic "oh, that's nice"
2) "I didn't know that VW made a station wagon -- does it look like a Jetta / Beetle?!?"
More importantly, one of my favorite cars is a Lexus GS400. Until Lexus decides to make a Variant model, then I guess I'll have to settle for the sedan.
George
Yeah, the cup holder in the Passat is weak. When we first got the car I put paper between the cup holder and the carpet just in case. Dog 2 made quite a mess when he ate a paper coffee cup while I paid for gas. Now I just spill coffee and clean it up later. I saw another really weird cupholder - on the Outback I think. Pops out of the control panel; looks weak. Maybe if Europeans drank coffee in the car there would be design improvements.
I'm still pondering AWD. In a mild climate, I don't see the point. We should probably go drive some cars and see how they feel. We have only driven the Forester - it was kind of fun. I guess mostly I object to the front grill and the square shape (too much like the rusty Honda). Huge moonroof got my attention though. The dealer here says she never gets Foresters with such lux.
Thanks again.
Quality? Lately, yes. He should stick to luxury and styling. I think the A6 is the prettiest sedan on the road.
The Passat's cup holder was just featured in the car issue of Consumer Reports among the poor designs. Who cares, though? We should pay more attention to the road anyway.
AWD (including 4Motion & Quattro) have plenty of benefit in dry conditions. Instead of steady understeer, handling is more neutral. FWD overburdens the front tires with steering and acceleration, while AWD distributes the load. Weight distribution also improves, and torque steer is nonexistent.
And that's when it's dry! Then there's snow, rain, sleet, icy conditions, sand (well, for the lifted Soobs anyway), gravel, dirt roads and muddy trails.
I'm going to the Outer Banks this summer, so hopefully I'll take some cool pics on the beach, and share them with you.
-juice
Dealers have been no help. The interior of the passat seems of high quality. But what about after the first year?
My husband likes the car so much he defends the cup holder.
-milf
We picked the Outback and we are thrilled. I have comfort with the quality that would never have had with the VW we were about to buy.
Read the Subaru topics and then read the VW topics on Edmund's Town Hall. The Subaru owners are generally in love with their cars, something that is missing from the VW posts on the whole. I read about ebery VW topic post when we were looking, and reading so many was what "drove" (ha ha) us to the Subaru.
I have had a VW and have had close friends with them too. History says that they slowly fall apart. Same problems on 70 beetles and 80s Golfs (door locks, bumpers, doors sag on hinges, door handles, exhaust problems); but the engine will keep running. The Passat feels nice, and it certainly is really cool looking, but I am not such a gambler (anymore).
The Subaru is less refined; but it fits our lives more. We are not looking to impress anyone else, and we dont want to cry when the dogs track mud all over the seats (or when we do).
And, we got our Outback for 200 bucks UNDER invoice.
I love this car!!
"The Subaru owners are generally in love with their cars, something that is missing from the VW posts on the whole."
Glad to hear that you're happy with your choice. I agree that many of the posts tend to be pessimistic towards the Passat due to VW's history. However, one visit to www.vwvortex.com and one can find very satisfied Passat owners chating about their cars.
George
That is certainly true. And certainly a ton of people love their Passats. But I tend to feel that Edmund's site has a broader spectrum of participants, and probably more objective ones.
Those who point their browser to a site like vwvortex, or any other brand-specific enthusist site, are probably doing so _because_ they love their cars. The more average car buyer/owner is drawn to Edmund's for other reasons.
My thoughts anyway.
John
VW has improved a lot recently. The 1.8T is rated highly in reliability, though the V6 is slightly worse than average per CR. Check out the new auto issue; it has about 15% more problems than average (still not bad).
Though I have to agree with George that VW owners seem just as enthusiastic as us Soob nuts. Even back in my rec.autos days, vw was the first to get their own topic (rec.autos.vw).
You know why? These are both cars with tons of character.
-juice
Both use premium fuel. You may be able to burn a lower octane, but the engine may retard the timing to compensate, and therefore produce less power, perhaps even be less efficient. I'd stick with the premium recommendation for the turbo motor.
AWD comes only with the V6, and it certainly does help in wet weather (and snow, and gravel, and dirt trails). AWD costs $1650, so only you can determine if it's worth it.
AWD also reduces understeer, and eliminates torque steer. It helps distribute weight more evenly fore/aft, as well as the work load so that the front tires aren't doing all the steering and acceleration.
I'm going to NC this summer and plan to hit the beach in Outer Banks, and you can bet I'll appreciate AWD then.
-juice
PS They're hot, and selling near list price now
We bought a V6 GLS wagon with TIP and couldn't be happier. If you plan on getting a stick the 1.8T will be fine. We opted for the six because of the automatic and I wanted the added and linear power. The TIP wagons I drove with the 1.8T seemed a little sluggish starting out till the boost was up. With the stick you can control that.
I'll say the gas mileage in town is nothing to write home about (I had TDI Jetta which probably spoiled me with regard to mileage). Both take Premium as Ateix3ira says.
We're in Southeastern VA and I'd recommend you save your money and not get the 4Motion. I don't think it's needed. We had a 4WD wagon in the DC area and found our FWD was sufficient for all but the worst snow. In VA and NC the FWD is enough in my opinion.
As for price, the longer you wait the cheaper it will be. There is a forum topic on prices.
George
I think that George (tzretusn) hit the major point about the V6 vs the 1.8 T. The V6 also feels more refined and the NVH is a touch better than in the 1.8T. We opted for the AWD even though we presently live in Birmingham. During our shopping process, we drove both the FWD and AWD versions of the GLX. The AWD model not surprisingly feels heavier, most notably from the start. However, once at cruising speeds (in the city or the highway) the V6 provides enough torque to allow you to pass effortlessly. We felt that even in dry conditions the handling characteristics afforded by the AWD was noticable enough that the cost of owning one was justified. But, I would not recommend 4motion to every buyer -- if you're interested in it, drive both versions and see if you can notice any difference with your particular driving style. If not, then go with the FWD model and save yourself $1650 plus an additional 2+ MPG in the city & highway.
As far as pricing goes, from what others have reported in VWvortex.com you don't have to pay MSRP. As far as "dealer price" goes, Edmunds says that the 2% holdback no longer exists. If you're looking at the 1.8 or GLS V6, people seem to be getting these for about $300-$800 above invoice (not MSRP) price. A GLX with tip can likewise be purchased for that amount, while a GLX with the stick (a rare one in N. America) seems to command a higher price (but certainly not MSRP). Most dealers in general are not dealing as much on the GLX 4motion but I have heard of people getting them for as low as $300 above invoice. Many dealers who I called during my search were asking about $500 below MSRP. Also it seems as if many of the deals are in the Midwest, while the East and West coasts are more difficult areas to negotiate prices. BTW, we purchased ours for ~$1000 (~3%) above invoice with accessories at dealer cost.
George
AFAIK, an AWD wagon (or FWD wagon for that matter) will most likely NOT be headed our way. Primarily because of the SUV trend, both makers are focusing their attention towards this arena. The Honda Odyssey won't have AWD because of their magic third row seat precludes this option.
Having said that, the closest AWD vehicle to a wagon will be the introduction of some new hybrid SUV's in the next few year. Lexus has the RX300, but toyota apparently will be making a "scaled down" version (Highlander?). Honda/Acura will be introducing the "RX fighter" presently known as the MD-X probably later this fall.
I don't think you'll get any arguement about the reliability of VW vs Honda/Toyota. However, the reliabilty has improved compared to a decade ago, and is probably now avg to above avg. Although the basic bumper -to-bumper warranty on VW's is only 2yr/24K, the "powertrain" warranty of 10yr/100K was reassuring for us to get our first VW. If you really wan't an AWD wagon, I would also encourage you to check out the Subaru models ie. Legacy GT wagon and Outback wagons, as the reliability of these seem to approach that of the Honda/Toyotas.
George
George
George
Despite the usual first-model-year caution, I will probably order one the day they're announced.
Stephn
George
Stephen
We are wondering what the going % over invoice is. Dealer (who seems honest) says 3.5% and he will show us the invoice. Does this sound reasonable?
Anything anyone wish they thought about before the purchase?
Patti
Patty,
Congrats on your decision!
Can't tell you much about pricing, but you may want to check the Subaru Legacy & Outback Topic for more info. 3.5% above invoice is not bad, but I recall reading that other owners have purchased their car at near invoice pricing.
If you do look in to getting an aftermarket sunroof, you should look into Hollandia Sunroofs.
George
He is a professional shopper (really). Called the fleet manager and got $100 over invoice on our choice. The saleman we talked to over the weekend said 3.5% over, so thats a pretty good deal. The GT without auto seems quicker than the Ltd. so I'm driving them both one more time...
I do get to select the aftermarket moonroof and leather.
And we do purchase stock, Ramon. I leave it up to him to choose 'cause he's almost always right.
He ought to listen better to a wife like you.
-juice
PS Enjoy your Soob once you get it
So... my Outback is on a truck heading for the lot. It should be delivered Monday, but we're getting the moonroof and leather put in so I won't get it until the end of the week. Now all I need is a hands-free cellular phone so I can shift. Okay, I'm excited! The dogs are too. The kids are pleased that Dad is getting rid of the "funky" car.
We countered the 3.5% and ended up paying $300 over invoice in Santa Cruz. Dealer says we fit the Subaru profile! I got Stevens Creek (San Jose) down to $100 over invoice but I still don't like them and I've learned not to buy a car from someone you don't like (e.g., our VW dealer). Santa Cruz Subaru has excellent customer satisfaction ratings and offers free scheduled maintenance - well worth the extra $200 IMO.
We didn't purchase the extended warranty. Hope I don't regret that. We had an extended warranty on the Ford Windstar nightmare. It only extended the greif - if I had to pay for all the repairs we would have dumped it sooner.
Thanks for all your help, guys! Hope there's some snow left somewhere. Yes, he is pretty lucky, juice, 'e teimoso'!
-Patti
And enjoy coffee in that smart cup holder
Mike
..Mike
http://www.thejuiceman.homepage.com/rescue.html
Doubt a Passat could do that!
-juice
After test driving a sube last fall, the dealer (different dealer - Somerset, Ma.) told me that "I fit the profile" as well. Weird.
I guess it kind of makes it an easy decision now...