2010 Toyota Corolla vs 2010 Kia Forte

steven39

hello folks,i recentley compared the new 2010 kia forte with the 2010 corrolla and the forte imo beats the corolla in every category except resale value.the forte has more hp,more standard features,better warranty,and is a sharper looking car..has anybody else had the chance to compare these 2 cars?.if so,please comment...

mnappi0606

Yes! I agree completely. I just compared the two, and ended up leasing a corolla. The only reason I did so was b/c you can't lease a forte... However, I think it is a great car to buy!

conwelpic

you can lease a Forte in Canada. Seems very strange that you can't do it in the US.

Sandman6472

These company's need to watch their backs no matter what some posters in here think. The Korean cars are coming into their own right now and with more features, better warranties & comparable prices, people now have many choices in the econobox category. The Corolla is looking old & tired while the Civic needs an update just to be able to compete. The Corolla LE looks and drives like an old persons car...rented one this past May and it looked old and wasn't very comfortable, while the interior was so "plain jane" I couldn't wait to turn it back in. The "S" and "XLE" are the sweet spot in the Corolla lineup but it still needs a major revamping inside and out.

Cars like the Mazda 3 and the Forte have the looks nailed down and for the "fun to drive" factor, the 3 is a blast to drive...we own a '05 "S" model so I speak from experience. Waiting to do a test drive on the Forte but from what I've read, it's a home run for Kia and a much better ride than the Spectra. Still love my '06 Civic, but when it comes time to replace it, I will definitely look closely at the competition before I buy.

This is just my personal opinion so no need, to get all riled up in here. We all like and buy what fits us best, but all I'm saying is that the "Honota's" should be very concerned about their competition from now on & stop living on their past successes...it's a whole new ball game now in this car segment. So please folks, no flames... just move on. But I'd love to hear any constructive opinions!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

steven39

hi folks,i have a 2010 kia forte ex that i really enjoy.however,on a recent long distance drive i noticed that when i set my trip odometer to 0 it only goes to 1000 miles then goes back to start over again.it won't go over 1000 miles.iv'e had cars in the past where i have had over 50,000 miles on the trip odometer.

terceltom

I don't think the 2010 Corolla's is like that.

odong

I think there are three types of odometers. You can click your odometer (there is a pin I believe) ant check with odometer A, B and C something like that. I think you pick the local trip odometer which will be automatically reset after 1000 mile drive.

jaxs1

Resale value is one of the most important aspects when choosing a car to lease, so if leasing, the Corolla will make the most sense.

I think the Forte is a better buy at first because you get more for less, but I wonder if the Corolla will work out cheaper in the end after you subtract the resale value returned when you buy the next car?

backy

How is resale value important when leasing a car? Don't most folks turn in the car at the end of a lease? I would say the out-of-pocket costs for leasing the car, including monthly payment and up-front fees, are most important on a lease. Of course, if a car has a high residual value, the lease payments should be lower. But that isn't always true, especially if the manufacturer subsidizes the lease.

jaxs1

Because a lease is based on the difference between the cap cost and the residual value. If the car has a high resale value, difference will be small and you have lower payments and lower total cost.
So, leasing a car like a Civic or Corolla that costs more to start may cost you less than a Kia or Hyundai or a Dodge Caliber to lease due to the lower depreciation.

Example: $18000 Civic with residual of $11,000 is $7000 cost to base lease on.
$16000 Kia with $8000 residual is $8000 cost to base the lease on.
The higher MSRP car would still end up cheaper to lease because of high resale value.
In that case the car that started off cheaper really cost you more money at the end.

Of course you could lower the payments on the Kia to match by putting more money down, but it still costs you more in total cost of all payments, plus down payment if the depreciation cost is higher.

The same thing happens if you buy a Kia Forte brand new for $1000 less than a Corolla, but at resale time you have to sell or trade it for $2000 or $3000 less that if you had the Corolla.

iluvmysephia1

thanks for that lease explanation. I have looked at them from other angles before but never really understood the difference between cap cost and residual value deal. Which looks like it is a lot of understanding what leasing an automobile is really about. Since the cars I've bought new are usually lower cost economy type vehicles (that also don't keep their value well) I have fully understood that l would lose money by leasing those vehicles.

But your explanation above really drives home the point about how depreciation affects the amount of one's lease payment. Ouch!

jaxs1

A Honda Fit, Honda Civic and Corolla are economy cars that always keep high resale value, so you will have lower depreciation if you choose those than almost any other new car under $20K other than a base Mini Cooper.

I will test drive the Corolla XLE, Sentra SL and Kia Forte EX with fuel economy package and if I really prefer the Kia Forte the best by a wide margin then I will choose the Forte anyway since cost is one of the major reasons, but not the only reason I'm choosing a car.

If I was choosing a brand new car based 100% only on how well it does on resale, then I'd get a Mini Cooper.

One thing I read in one of the forums here about the Forte that might cause me to choose one of the others is that the A/C is weak. If that's true, I will buy something else because the summers are very hot where I drive and I will not deal with a weak air conditioner for 5 to 7 years.

backy

As I noted, a higher residual value should make lease payments lower. But I have seen some great lease deals offered because of manufacturers subsidizing the lease, even when the residual wasn't that great. So a higher residual is all well and good, but the bottom line on a lease is the payment, and fees.

iluvmysephia1

man, the Corolla is so lame looking, please do us all a favor and pass on it.

Are you dead set on leasing a vehicle? Because really, the price on all three of those rigs is not high at all. If you like to keep your vehicles for 6-10 years anyway, it just makes more sense to purchase the vehicle. Keep it well-maintained and just trade it in later or hang on to it. Or give it to one of your kids or something.

Leasing always means spendy to me, I just can't come to grips with leasing a rig...it's like renting a house vs. buying one. Not exactly the same, in fact there are some practical differences, yes, but leasing a lower-end rig like the ones you've mentioned just doesn't make sense. The one that makes the most sense with how the leasing system works would be the Toyota Corolla, and that car just looks dead in the water to start out with, man.

Get the Kia Forte EX! :P

jaxs1

I'm not planning on leasing. Someone else here is.
The Forte looks good, but if the A/C is weak, it will be a deal killer even if I otherwise like it best.
I can't test it in winter, so unless I can find proof that the problem was fixed and the Forte EX's a/c is as good as any other similar car's a/c, I will either buy something else wait until summer orwhen I can test it for myself.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1d9559/36#MSG36

backy

CR has a report on the Forte in their latest issue. They were not very impressed. They complained about a hard ride, noisy engine, and spartan interior. They did like the fuel economy (28 mpg overall with 4AT) and roomy back seat for 2 adults, among other things. They noted the Forte is a big improvement over the Spectra.

I am a bit surprised by this as the Spectra was one of the smoothest riding cars in its class, with one of the quieter driving environments and roomiest interiors. I wonder if Kia back-tracked on some qualities in the Forte, in favor of more power and better fuel economy?

jaxs1

Some of those issues would be fixed with an EX 5 speed AT. I wonder if they plan to test that model?

backy

Well, maybe the engine noise at high revs would be reduced, since the engine would be turning slower on the highway with the 5AT. But the ride and interior issues, and engine noise at mid-revs, would remain, since they did test the EX trim.

Another plus CR mentioned and I forgot to note before was the handling. Also they liked the big trunk, but not the hinges that can crush stuff (too bad Kia didn't opt for struts on the trunk). But I don't think the Corolla has struts on the trunk lid either, does it?

It seems the Forte would be a good choice over the Corolla for someone who wants a roomy compact with good handling being more important than a smooth ride.

jaxs1

Which requires the less frequent and less expensive scheduled maintenance over 100K miles?
I have heard that the maximum oil change interval for the Corolla is only 5K miles even though it uses expensive synthetic oil.
Oil changes are only one part of the scheduled maintenance. How does the rest of maintenance compare between the two?
Do they both have timing belts or chains?

terceltom

Geeez, I can't even believe I am posting on a thread that compares Kia to Toyota. Kia doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Toyota. Anyway, Corollas use chains which never need maintenance replacement. So your going to judge vehicle reliability on the recomended mainteneance schedule? Oil doesn't last any longer in a Kia then it does in a Toyota. If you want cheap, get the Kia, if you want a car with proven economy, reliability and safety buy the Toyota.

conwelpic

the 2.0L and 2.4L on the Forte use timing chains. To answer your question on service comparison go to the Toyota dealer and price out their service and then the same for the KIA.
All I know that the dealer service on my Rondo is very reasonable, but you don't necessary have to have your vehicle serviced at a dealership.

If you want cheap, get the Kia, if you want a car with proven economy, reliability and safety buy the Toyota.

I would have agreed with this statement a few years ago, but not anymore things have changed dramatically.

jaxs1

What is the service interval schedule on the Forte? At what mileages does the owners manual say you need to take the car in for regular scheduled maintenance?

conwelpic

as I don't know whether you are located in the US or Canada, but for the Canadian market their suggested service interval is every 8,000 km or 4 months. That's also the same for the Canadian Corolla with 8,000 km or 6 months.

Checked on the US Toyota site and its every 5,000 miles or six months. Checked on the KGIS site (KIA Global Information System) excellent site, tells you everything you want to know about any KIA. They suggest every 7,500 miles or six months.

Big differences in warranty between the two vehicles.

backy

I have a feeling there is a "severe service" schedule for the Forte that will in effect cut the service interval (esp. for oil changes) in half, e.g. oil changes every 3000-3750 miles. With "severe service" including a number of normal conditions such as driving in cold weather or mostly for short distances. I don't know if Toyota has a similar schedule, but many manufacturers do that.

I follow the severe service schedule on my Elantra. But then, my dealer provides free oil changes for life (they are a Kia dealer also), even at the severe service interval, so no worries there.

jaxs1

Severe is severe and means it is a very significant portion or majority of your driving. Stopping at a few red lights on an average commute doesn't qualify as severe.
Phoenix summers, Minneapolis winters, towing, lots of super short trips where the car never fully warms up, and driving on dirt roads frequently are examples. I never use the severe schedule because I drive in normal conditions with more highway than city driving.

jaxs1

I rented a Corolla today and stopped at a Kia dealer and sat in an unlocked Forte EX.
I thought the Forte interior materials mostly seemed a bit thicker, softer and more substantial quality, but despite this I still preferred the interior of the Corolla because it just looked more modern and had a better-looking design.
Exterior of both were comparable with the Forte was a bit nicer looking outside, but not enough to be important since I think the Corolla looks OK.
After sitting inside, I didn't have the desire to drive the Forte, so I left before a salesman showed up.
The main advantages of the Forte besides lower purchase price are the much longer standard factory warranty 5/60K bumper to bumper and 10/100K powertrain warranty, rear disc brakes, more power, more room and a USB/iPod port that the Corolla lacks. Adding a somewhat comparable extended warranty plus iPod adapter would add over a thousand dollars more to the already more expensive Corolla.
Since I didn't like the Forte interior, I'm only considering the Corolla out of these two now. I liked the way the Corolla drove except that the Corolla's front seat room was borderline too small, so I'm not sure I will go ahead with a purchase or try to find something else that's only slightly larger, but was comparable fuel economy (Camry is way too big.)
The Corolla had an annoying squeak/buzz in the headliner above the drivers door next to my ear (these types or squeaking and rattling interior noises are apparently very common in the current Corolla).
Another annoyance was that the drivers side door armrest isn't usable as a place to rest your elbow because it's way too far away from the seat.

Advantages of Corolla XLE over Forte EX will be better resale value, available JBL stereo (more wattage and has RDS Forte lacks), outside temperature gauge, automatic on and off headlights (Forte is auto off only) and available automatic temperature control A/C.

backy

The Elantra is larger (inside) than the Corolla, costs less than the XLE you are looking at, has the same warranty as the Forte, and has close to the same fuel economy as the Corolla. You'd need the SE to get ESC of course. Have you considered the Elantra? It's also CR's top choice in small cars right now. The 2010 model was tweaked a bit and IMO the interior is nicer looking than the '09, and I think classier than the Forte's interior (and the Corolla's for that matter).

jaxs1

I don't think Hyundais have the exact same 100K powertrain warranty as a Kia, but it's still good at very 5/60 bumper to bumper.
I know the Elantra is going to be completely redesigned for the 2011 year and I hate buying cars that are going to restyled in a year or less.
The new 2011 Sonata will be out in a month and gets EPA ratings 23 city, 35 mpg highway, so not much of a mpg penalty for the large size. Best pricing won't be available until its been out for several months though.
I may think about an Elantra SE despite the upcoming redesign. I know the Elantra is now rated as one of the most reliable new cars over the last 3 years.

backy

I don't think Hyundais have the exact same 100K powertrain warranty as a Kia...

Actually, Hyundai had it first, then Kia got it due to their relationship with Hyundai.

I would be shocked if the new Elantra came out before the 2012 MY, given the current design debuted in late 2006, as a 2007 MY, only a bit more than 3 years ago.

irritatrix

Uh, I have owned 3 Toyotas and now own a Kia (not a Forte, though I'm considering one) and there is no way I'd ever buy another Toyota. They've don't make the car they used to when I first bought one in 1975, 1986, or 1993. And neither does KIA - they are starting to leave the Japanese companies in the dust - for the MOST part - not ALL models, but you are mistaken if you think they make crappy cars.

terceltom

Oh no, I respect your oppinion. I just don't think you can even mention Kia in the same league as the Toyota. The Toyota being steps above the Kia. But, that's just anothers oppinion.

backy

Toyota definitely leads Kia in one area lately: recalls.

terceltom

Not so ! ! ! Consumer reports has rated that Toyota vehicles have been on the safest car list seven times out of all classes of vehicles for the year of 2009. Kia on the other hand has made the list only two times. Who's leading in that field ? ? ? Backy you usually don't miss things like that, how did that slip by you ? ? ?

conwelpic

maybe so, but there is some serious flaws happening, that did not happen in the past - 4.2 million vehicles recalled last fall and 2.3 more just a couple of days ago. The largest ever in North America!

Also check out this journalist comments from his visit to the Detroit Auto Show
http://www.autoextremist.com/

part of the comments "Now in the midst of a relentless series of recalls, that ol’ Toyota quality magic has been blown to smithereens, and their reputation is in tatters. And amazingly enough consumers have quickly gotten the message that there are other automakers out there delivering the kind of quality numbers that used to be exclusively associated with Toyota."

Consumer reports reliability is spread over time, so it will be interested to see the results in the next year or two. All I know is that my KIA is very reliable.

backy

You are equating recalls with overall safety. I was talking about recalls. How did that slip by YOU?

Face it, Toyota quality has slipped big time from its heyday in the '80s and '90s. When you have professional reviewers like C/D saying that the interior fit/finish of a Kia Optima is better than that of the Camry, or when Consumer Reports ranks a Kia ahead of the Camry, that should be a wake-up call for Toyota and those who think Toyota is far ahead of the likes of Kia.

Although not perfect, at least Kia seems capable of designing cars that accelerate only when you want them to.

ivtec1

I think generally toyota corolla and Honda civic (i own one) are good cars. But i don't think they are as good as before. Hyundai and Mazda are making better cars (check 2010Mazda 3). Just check out all the complaints about civic & corolla http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/ :sick:

In summary, the corollas have been hit with steering complaints and the civic (2006-2007) models hit with cracked engine blocks yikes

iluvmysephia1

I never really believed Consumer Reports would report like backy mentioned here.

When you have professional reviewers like C/D saying that the interior fit/finish of a Kia Optima is better than that of the Camry, or when Consumer Reports ranks a Kia ahead of the Camry, that should be a wake-up call for Toyota and those who think Toyota is far ahead of the likes of Kia.

I would really think twice about even considering buying a Toyota at this point in time. OTOH-both Kia and Hyundai are building safe and sane rigs that are just gorgeous to gaze upon. But so is Mitsubishi, and I know, I digress. But IMHO Toyota is slipping large-time right now.

Their problems are beyond just being a "wake-up call" in my opinion.

terceltom

Now come on ! ! ! You stated "Toyota leads Kia in one catagory", my point is to correct you, Toyota leads Kia in at least two catagories, one being SAFETY !

backy

I think it's hard to justify a claim of Toyota leading ANYONE in safety with millions of its cars, including the 2010 Corolla, recalled for a safety-related defect. Toyota can't even claim a single vehicle as an IIHS Top Safety Pick. Kia at least has one, the Soul. The Forte hasn't been tested by the IIHS yet.

How is the 2010 Corolla superior to the Forte in safety?

terceltom

Well your right, Toyota missed the mark in 2010 for safety and I won't argue for the 2010 Corolla being more safe than the Forte. But we can debate is that Toyota had eleven of their models on the IIHS "list of safest vehicles" for 2009 while Kia had none! And we can also state that Kia made the Forbes Magazines"most dangerous vehicles" list based on IIHS testing in the small car category for 2009 with the Rio while Toyota was on the safest list with eleven of their models. Now, you ask me how, well I'm not an expert in safety but I believe it's based on crash test data. I also trust and believe the experts that do the testing ! ! ! At least Toyota recognizes they have a problem with the accelerator pedals and wants to remedy the situation before more loss of life occurs. So I ask you, would you rather have your vehicle on the "recall list" or the "most dangerous vehicles" list?

backy

I wouldn't buy a Rio as I know its crash protection isn't very good. But it's Kia's oldest car model. And it's not the subject of this discussion, which is the Forte and how it compares to the Corolla. The Forte isn't on anyone's "most dangerous vehicles" list, is it? So if you are asking me if, based on safety, whether I'd rather have a Corolla or Forte, that's a tougher question.

BTW, Kia did have a 2009 IIHS Top Safety Pick.

terceltom

Okay, your right, because it's not a Rio forum, even though it's unsafe, I shouldn't have mentioned it ! But anyway, let's talk just manufacturer and not models. I know your hang-up is recalls and not safety, but when was the last time Toyota had a car on the "unsafe" list?

backy

Why do you continue to try to steer this discussion off-topic? Why not stick to comparing the Corolla and Forte? Besides, which "unsafe" lists are you referring to? The fact that lots of Corolla's are on the NHTSA's "list" for safety recalls could be construed as being on an "unsafe" list. Some people think the Corolla's steering is "unsafe". So it will be on their "unsafe" list. Yada yada.

So let's compare the Corolla to the Forte, eh?

terceltom

Backy, I'm generalizing about Toyota vs. Kia just as you did in your post of #33.

I was refering to a "Dangerous Car List" of experts, not your own list or my own list. I quoted the "Most Dangerous Vehicles List of 2009" as drawn up by Forbes Magazine based on the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) crash test ratings. IIHS is an independent testing organization funded by vehicle insurance providers.

Simply put, in message #33 you pointed out that "lately Toyota has more recalls than Kia", I presume "lately" means 2009 and 2010. My point is that in 2009, this same year, the IIHS also gave Toyota very high marks for safe vehicles on eleven of their models while Kia this same year had a vehicle judged very dangerous to drive by experts who base their judgements on testing by this same IIHS.

Sandman6472

Am I in the wrong forum? Happened to stop right next to a new Forte at a light yesterday...same color as my Civic, and liked the looks of the car. Seemed to be the same size as the Civic, so assuming it's also the same size as the Corolla. All nice cars so along with the Mazda 3, Sentra & Elantra, there is much to choose from in this class.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

backy

Fine, if you want to play the game of stretching a two-car comparo to a brand comparo (see your post #32) then complain when someone replies to you... don't expect any more replies to off-topic posts, from me anyway.

BTW, if you want to see Toyotas on the "most dangerous car" list, you only need look at their previous list. There's 3 current Toyota/Scion models on that list. Just one Kia--the Rio.

terceltom

There again in post #32 I was just responding to irritatrix's post who, like you, was also comparing Toyotas to Kias, not Fortes to Corollas. As I stated in post #32, I respect irritatrix's oppinion as I also do yours, but when a statement like your #33 post is made, I believe clarifications should be noted and discussed. As you, I also exhausted my comments I want to make on this issue

backy

...now that it's no longer possible to buy a 2010 Corolla... not for awhile, in the US at least. :sick:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100126/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_recall

pat

Regardless of the posts you cite, the discussion is indeed for comparing the Corolla to the Forte. Would appreciate it if you would keep that in mind.

terceltom

Oh I'm well aware of that ! I was just responding to the two other posters who wanted to generalize by manufacturer rather than model. See #31 and #33.

Karen_S

As has been said previously, this is a vehicle comparison discussion and we appreciate your comments staying to the topic. There are places where you can talk about the manufacturer only.

Toyota on the mend for 2010?

New one just created to address recent recalls.

Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelertor Stuck Problem Recall