Subaru Impreza Outback Sport & TS

nippononly

do you mean that U.S.-bound OBS will NOT get the 4-wheel disc brakes in 2004?

bluesubie

Hopefully it means that we will get them in the U.S. as well, since so many people have been asking for them.

Accessories north of the border are different though. A big one is Canada gets heated side view mirrors and heated seats.

-Dennis

nippononly

why they still don't have them...99.99% of the rest of Subie's line-up has rear discs, why leave them off OBS? Seems like it would cost MORE that way, since they are the only drum brakes being bought...

derekgdw

Hello! When my 2002 OBS was in a wreck almost a year ago all four tires were replaced as well as a lot of the suspension.

When I got it back we were out of snow season but I was noticing it losing traction a bit in the rain while taking off. I didn't think much about it.

Well today we had our first semi major snow of the season in the far north suburbs of Chicago. When I took the car out today to go to work (40 miles away) I was sliding all over the road worse than I ever did in my old '93 FWD Impreza. It was so bad I decided to turn around and go back home.

Now first off, I drove this through a couple of snow blasts we had last year before it was wrecked and it seemed to handle quite a bit better than this. Second I was driving very slow. No one else on the road seemed to be having quite the problems keeping their vehicle under control like I was.

My first thought was the accident may have done something to the AWD system that wasn't noticed until now however when I had someone watch while I took off and they saw all four wheels spinning away unable to get traction. That's making me think that it's not the AWD with the problems but the tires.

These are supposedly the same kind of tires that were on it before (16 inch Bridgestone Potenzas). Has anyone else had trouble with traction on these tires?

Are there any recommendations for replacement tires?

paisan

There are tons (probably 10+ different) of Potenzas. Pretty much all their street tires are called Potenza of one sort of another. I'd suspect the tires as well.

-mike

paisan

I just ordered up Dunlop Sport A2s for my dad's car which are great all-seasons. Another great all-season tire is the Dunlop SP5000s.

-mike

rbleland

I have a 2002 TS with the standard Potenza tires. I would not even try to drive snow with them. Most "all season" tires are useless in snow, regardless of maker's claims. I switch all four wheels to real snow tires in the winter (look for the "mountain" symbol on the tire to know you have real snow tires). I am using a Yokohama "720" tire for winter, but, sorry, don't have the exact name. Hope this helps.

derekgdw

Nippononly - Stupid question from me. How would I go about checking if the alignment was off? Are there any checks I can do on my own or do I have to bring it in to be checked? If it's an alignment problem I can bring it right in to the body shop to have fixed (lifetime guarantee on the work which is why I decided I may as well keep it ;->)

Actually better yet is an alignment check included in the 30k service checkup? I'm about a couple of thousand miles away from that now. If so maybe I'll schedule that a bit early . . .

Paisan and Rbleland - Thanks for the tire suggestions! I'm debating still if I'll go ahead and switch tires right away. Early Christmas shopping has left me a bit tapped out for now . . . After today though it's probably worth taking on a bit of debt for a short period of time.

paisan

Are great all-seasons from what I've been told/read. I'm putting a set on my SVX this friday.

-mike

ateixeira

Cool, 4 discs and the new look? Sweet. The TS and Forester X have drums, too, but I agree Subaru should make 4 discs the standard.

-juice

nippononly

No, you cannot check the alignment yourself, and that is not a standard part of the 30K check-up, but if you have that lifetime warranty, and you believe the work of that shop is good, you should take it over there to have the alignment checked.

mayaderen

I was doing some car research, as I'm considering selling my 97 OBS, and it just dawned on me...

I never checked back in this forum to thank Juice for helping me out with new wheel covers last fall.

Not only did he give me a great deal, he also provided helpful advice and put the wheel covers on for me. Anyway, if you're out there, thanks again. I continue to enjoy reading posts on this forum.

Regards,
Cory

ateixeira

Hey, there you are! I was wondering when you were gonna pop back in here to say hi. :-)

Glad those worked out for you (we put the OE wheel covers from our Legacy on her OBS since we got alloys).

Nice to see you're still around. Remember - 75 lb-ft of torque on those rims. I should have re-torqued them for you. Are your brakes better now?

-juice

mayaderen

My brakes are great. And the covers are still on and lookin' good. Just got a new timing belt, battery, tires, and rotors...so Matilda is in good shape. Which makes my "to sell or not to sell" decision pretty tough. I was considing a P5...which is how made my way back to you via the P5 v. OBS board.

But I'm thinking anyone out there in the DC area like us has got to be loving our AWD in the slushy mess outside.

ateixeira

Both are nice cars. I tested a P5 when I was at a dealer to pick up a new gas cap for my Miata. One warning: Mazda parts, in my experience, can be painfully expensive. $28 for that tiny little gas cap.

If the OBS is paid off, start saving up for your next car, keep it until you start having catastrophic failures ($700+), or you feel that you are about to. New brakes are about one single car payment, not worth selling it just for that.

The 2.2l is pretty solid. It's the same block at the 2.5l, so technically it's overengineered for the power it makes.

And I know you've been enjoying AWD lately. 10" of snow that still hasn't melted entirely, and then freezing rain today? Yikes.

-juice

nippononly

until you can't stand to look at it any more because you need a change! It will last at least that long.

rbleland

Just thought I'd provide an update on my 2002 Impreza 2.5 TS (new March8/02):
- TS is 5 speed with 4 extra rims for the 4 snows, front air deflector, cargo tray and cover, and rear bumper strip (not standard on Canadian TS).
- TS now has 12,000KM (about 6200 miles). Totally trouble-free except two CEL's due faulty gas tank vent valve (since replaced under warranty); and occasional drivelink "shudder" when I am not attentive enough on cold starts with the gas pedal (service dept. says common on 5 spd. cars).
- TS is very fun to drive and my 125# Shepard-Rottie X (Drake) has learned very quickly to "get your head in" before I close the back hatch.
- Winter has been slow in coming to Western Canada (El Nino) this year, but fresh snow over the past days serve to prove to me this is the best winter handling vehicle I have had (that includes several SUVs - very poor winter handlers, IMO). Also did a recent major hiway trip over several mountain passes where I was able to safely pass trucks, SUVs and FWD cars in snowy, slushy conditions.
- Would I get metallic Midnight Pearl again? Probably, but definitely not easy to keep clean.
I read most of the Subie boards daily, but post very seldom, so just wanted to throw this in.
rick

ateixeira

Sounds good, keep in touch. We have a friend at SoA who can help out in case anything comes up.

-juice

brekke

Talk to me babe.

newobslvr

Hi, all--

I have a 2002 OBS with just under 25,000 miles. Have loved the car.

At about 20,000 miles, I noticed a "creakiness" in the clutch. I don't notice any noise until it is depressed about half-way; from the half-way point to the floor is very "creaky". Overall, it feels stiff.

When I had it in for an oil change recently, I asked the dealer to check it out. He said he "didn't hear anything". But then he said it was a rainy day and that could have affected things. Hmm.

I have no knowledge of clutch systems and how they work at all. All I do know is that over the past few months, it has been noticable to me in all varieties of weather.

I'm not a harsh driver. Shift between 3,500 and 4,500 rpm from 1st to 2nd, and progressively less rpms from there on... try to make each gear go as smoothly as possible... no jerkiness, no riding the clutch...

Any thoughts/guidance any of you could offer would sure be appreciated. Many thanks!

Kim

nippononly

I had that same situation for a large portion of the time I had it. It was a cable clutch in that car, and I believe it still was in the 2002s, and I was told by a mechanic that it was probably a pivot that the cable rode over on its way to the clutch housing, and that it would be a lot more hassle and $$ to fix than it would be worth. As a result I left it alone, and it never did affect anything until the day I sold it.

FWIW.

bluesubie

I had a clutch squeak in my 97 OBS. The pedal was lubed a few times and the cable was replaced twice. The problem continued and the dealer opened up the clutch and said it was the throwout bearing.

Got a new clutch and the problem popped up again a year later. I was going to a different dealer and the new dealer traced it to the clutch fork scraping against the tranny case.

Another possibility is the clutch slave cylinder, which is located near the throttle body (I think).

Have someone stand in front of the car with the hood open and you should be able to tell if it's coming from the top of the engine (slave cylinder) or the bottom of the engine (t.o. bearing).

Sometimes it's hard to determine the exact position because the noise transmits from the clutch, through the cable and up to the pedal.

-Dennis

paisan

The OBS gets rear discs like 96-97 had!

-mike

ateixeira

Yep, rear discs are the most notable change. Besides the front/rear styling.

The headlights have blisters that peek out beyond the regular shape, it's subtle but cool. Same with the taillights.

Also, the antennae is now embedded in the rear window, a cool touch. Looks like extra rear defrost lines but it's an antennae.

Thumbs up, I liked it already and like it even more now.

Oh, almost forgot Bob had mentioned a small change in the seat fabric, which you might notice in the pix. Looks like it got the same seats at the new Forester, minus the vinyl inserts.

-juice

rsholland

no lit ignition key ring.

Bob

vocus

That OBS looks just like the one that was at the Auto Show in MD a couple weeks ago. I prefer the large fog lights on the 02 OBS compared to the smaller ones.

I like the seats better in the WRX, but I don't think I would like its turbo lag. I know Subarus last a long time though, so I was thinking about getting one once I get rid of my VW (another 2 yrs on the Driver Option).

vocus

These tires have very poor traction in wet weather, and also wear out very quickly. I know someone who hydroplaned into the back of a stopped car because of prematurely worn Potenzas. I would definitely replace them around 25K, when they usually start to show their threads.

rba

a jpeg to a post? Wanna show my new SRP OBS.

stever

The photo must be "hosted" somewhere - you can't just upload it to edmunds.com. Then you link to the photo.

Check out the Town Hall Help link for details.

Steve, Host

leobella1

Can anyone give me a advice on how to fix my rear back up lights (white lights)? I have a 96 Impreza Outback. When I shift the gear into reverse the white lights do not come on. I checked the fuse and light socket and it seems to be working okay.
Let me know.
Regards.

revka

For more expedient feedback, you should also post (copy/paste) your question in our Subaru Crew - General Maintenance & Repair discussion. Good luck in finding a solution.

Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host

ateixeira

Try changing the bulbs, some times they are burned out but you can't tell. Same goes for the fuse, it might look OK, but be burned out.

-juice

nippononly

of that '04 OBS is quite simply the best it has ever looked, IMHO. I love it! And FINALLY the rear discs are back! It is about time, it was the only impreza left except TS not to have them! Makes me wonder if they will put the rear discs on the TS now too - seems simpler and would benefit from economy of volume.

Small fog lights are not as eye-catching, but they are certainly less prone to damage from stones on the road, and can be more precisely aimed too.

vocus

I hate the new look actually. The big fog lights lent an aggressive look to the OBS, and made it unique. Now it's about the same as everything else out there.

ateixeira

I agree that 4 wheel discs should be standard on all Subies. Economies of scale will pay for the difference in price.

Subaru toned down the look because world wide, sales were way down. I think the fact that it's heavier also had something to do with that.

-juice

nippononly

does anyone besides me think that the OBS (and all the imprezas except maybe WRX) should come in under 3000 pounds? I remember my '97 was around 2850, and even that seemed a little on the heavy side.

At 3100 pounds, OBS is about the same weight as an Accord, and almost the same as a Camry, both much larger sedans.

If they could lighten it, not only would handling be improved, but maybe fuel economy too.

nippononly

funny that worldwide impreza sales were so far down, yet WRX sales in the U.S. continue to exceed Subaru's wildest expectations...

ateixeira

I agree. The base Forester is just 3080 lbs, lighter than the OBS!

A few tricks they used - an aluminum hood, which also won't rust, and aluminum roof rails for the roof rack.

The have the aluminum hood on the WRX, so use it here, too. I'm sure there are other places to cut a few pounds, too.

It does have AWD plus it's a wagon, so I don't think it can be compared to a sedan. But I do agree it's heavier than it could be.

-juice

nippononly

with using that aluminum hood is cost - it is expensive to use on a sub-$20K car!

But it would be good. If you figure the AWD counts for roughly 200 pounds, this would still be a 2900 pound hatchback even in FWD.

On the plus side, having driven the new model a couple of times now, I must say it feels a lot more "substantial" than my '97 did.

ateixeira

I drove one and felt the same way. Crash tests prove it is more substantial.

But I hope for the next generation they try to find some weight efficiencies like the did with the 2003 Forester redesign. It actually lost 80 pounds.

-juice

nippononly

in an ideal world: 200 pounds less, same powertrain, available with a moonroof, and 20% better fuel economy. That would be ALMOST the perfect vehicle for me.

Can I have my wishes?! :-)

orangelebaron

I actually prefer the round headlights to this new design. I like it alot more. I test drove this car twice. A new 2002 and a 2002 with 7K.

It was not the exterior style that put me off...not at all. The car hesitated when hitting the gas hard from a stop in both cars. Also.. the seat was unbearably hard after 10 minutes. It also doesn't help that the interior material looks and feels like burlap.

Maybe the new one will have a nicer interior.
I did not experience the hesistation in a Forester, so I don't know why the OBS Sport did that.

bluesubie

Someone said the same exact thing here a while ago. IMHO, they're very durable. There was very little difference in the seats in my 97 OBS from the day that I bought it until I got the WRX 5 years later.

-Dennis

nippononly

I was never that fond of the seat material in my '97 either - it tends to be hard and not super-comfy - but it will pay you back by lasting forever without getting worn or saggy. Plus it repels water very well - good for mountain rain storms and going to the snow.

ateixeira

You are one tough customer!

I'd be happy with an 80 lb weight loss, like the Forester had, along with the addition of AVCS (sort of like BMW Vanos) for about 10 more horses and even better low end torque. Definitely want that moonroof, too!

Seats that seem hard are more supportive over long haul trips. I mean 2+ hours, not 10 minutes. Look at Volvo's seats - they're the best in the industry and they're pretty hard too.

Any how, $900 will get you leather from a good upholstery shop. $1300 and it's heated.

-juice

vocus

Have to agree about firm seats. My VW has firm seats, and I have driven 400 miles at a time without any pain at all. The seat heaters also help in this action though.

I found the WRX seats more comfortable, but also more confining, than the ones in the 04 OBS I sat in at the carshow.

ateixeira

You got me curious now, was it the new 2004 WRX? Because those seats are wider and now have integrated headrests.

The 2003 WRX seats had aggressive side bolsters and were more narrow, so yeah, lots of folks might feel confined.

-juice

vocus

Both WRX and OBS had the small fog lights, so I assumed both were 2004 models. The WRX's side bolsters were more prominent, and I thought I would find them confining, but I didn't. I am about 255lbs., and 6'3, and it was 'form fitting' but not uncomfortably tight. In comparison, my car's seats don't have side bolsters. I didn't get the 'sport' VW seats, because I found them confining around the legs and thighs more so.

ateixeira

No problemo - but let's continue this discussion over there...

-juice

orangelebaron

I also drive a 2000 S70 regularly. Those are firm but comfortable seats. I don't find Outback seats firm... just plain painfully hard...especially where the butt goes.

Regardless... here is a link to the new 2004 Impreza sportwagen in Japan...
http://www.subaru.co.jp/impreza/sportswagon/05/05_02.html