Subaru Impreza Outback Sport & TS

ramon

I'll send it to you after I get home from work. Be prepared to be Borla-fied. hahahah...

ramon

did you sample the sound files?

celeste2

Did you sent them to hotmail? I didn't get them there. I looked here too in case you were able to put them here. Just let me know where they are, and I'll be all ears...

ramon

i sent it to the email address u posted. =(

celeste2

I checked back on my post and I spelled the address correctly. Sometimes hotmail gets funky. Try this one: subymamma@yahoo.com
That should go thru. Wonder if Bill Gates gets bored and messes with my e-mail from time to time?

ramon

celeste,
I would have to send it to you next week as I out on a trip this weekend.
brb.

celeste2

Anytime is a good time to be borlafied... Have a nice trip....

ramon

sent it.
Oh, did i tell you I went to the Toronto autoshow? It was awesome! We spent no less than 6hrs there! Hahahah.... GM put out a crazy musical concert and Ford put out some kinda retro musical for their Thunderbird. Had a lot of fun.
And yes, sampled all the WRX and Imprezas. The WRX seats were yummy. Very nice. Better than our Imprezas. The turbo is to die for! Oh man! The intercooler is so big! Love it! Must get a wrx wagon in the near future!
The new OBS is ok. It came with a pukey green. The interior fabric is disgusting! What happened?! The RS is ok. looks exactly like the WRX sans hood scoop. The seats are nice too. Not sure if they are WRX seats. The overall dash outlook is better than ours. I quite like the aluminium motif. The cupholder by the vent is nice. Much better than our stupid cupholders.

celeste2

Left a message in your e-mail about the muffler clips. The first message didn't go thru because it said your box was full, so I sent another. They were cool. By the way, did you get to sit in one of those Lexus IS 300 sport wagons? I can't wait to see a picture of one, it sounds very luscious. So Ford had retro music. From the 50's? Too bad about the fabric in that new OBS, I've heard it's pukey to the max! If you don't get my e-mail message, I'll come back here and give my input on those muffler sounds...

ramon

i didn't get your email reply celeste.
The IS300 SportCross wagons were locked up. Can't get in. But I like it alot. Looks very nice. So does the Protege 5 wagon.

celeste2

I was wondering which Borla, #1 or #2, was yours. That RS system sounded louder than what I've heard in person. Can you tell me where the microphone was mounted? In or outside the car? There was a topic on the i-club about some guy in his 40's being fed up with his Stromung, and someone told him he thought an STI catback system with Borla headers would be tasteful and not too loud. Can you picture what that might sound like? Does your system have the headers? And it sounds like the addition of a midpipe changes the sound, I'm not sure if it just changes the volume or shifts the location of the sound. Anyway, thanks again for the clips and this is basically what I had e-mailed you.

ramon

change this topic name to Ramon and Celeste OBS discussion!
The microphone was mounted on the trunk. Actually it was put inside a sock and have the trunk clip on it while it was driven around. Tha tis how my car sounds like. I have a 2.25" midpipe with the Borla muffler.
I personally will not recommend the Borla as I think u don't want too loud a cabin noise which I have to say due to the cavernous nature of the 5dr hatch, the sound gets tiring with the windows up (me during winter!). However I love it when the window is down.
Not sure how much you want to spend. The Stomung si equally loud. It's not obnoxiously loud like those weed whacker Hondas. It is drony on highway cruising (3000-3500rpm) and upon deceleration, all hell breaks lose. hahahah... As a family hauler I would stay clear of this setup. I haven't heard the STi one, but I did hear that SPT performance muffler by Brospeed and it is not as loud. A bit louder than the stock system. Maybe you should try that with a midpipe. It shuold give you a nice growl but won't tire you so much.
Ironically the Borla catback which was transfered from my OBS to the RS is actually quieter from the cabin. This is prolly due to the coupe having a trunk and not the cavernous cabin. I am happy. I am mid 20s and I got sick of hte loud droning when the window is up. Imagine that. hehehehe....

celeste2

Were you Borla 1 or Borla 2? I wondered to myself if the sound dynamics were exaggerated by the wagon interior. Also, what horsepower gains did you have? I agree about changing this topic name. However, lurkers will still learn something from us. Like, for instance, that we are nearing the end of spring here and I had to run the air conditioner in the house this week!

ramon

What the heck are you talking about woman?! What does running an a/c in the house has to do with our OBS?!
Neither celeste. Those are exterior sounds. And in terms of exterior sound, it is similar to my OBS. I can definitely feel that the car rev much better after 3500rpm. Mind you I have my good 'ol Ramon Intake fixer upper. So that adds to it. After I exchanged the Borla for the RS' muffler, I can feel there is some kinda strangle hold. Sucks! Then again, by that time, my OBS was pretty much back to stock except for the K&N filter which i didn't bother since it won't fit my new car anyways. But yeah, there is a few hp to gain. It is freer flowing.
Trust me celeste, the with the Borla exhaust, the wagon's interior sound is alot boomier than a sedan body. I normally stand by the mods I have and would recommend it to ppl. But in your case, I think the Borla exhaust is a bit on the loud side especially to those who sits at the back. I pity all my female friends who had to contend with the drone all these times.... bless their hearts for being so patient.

celeste2

about the a/c comment. Just an offside. Well, I had thought one of those Borlas was yours. One was louder than the other. I think #2 was quieter. So, have you swapped most of your mods now? Are you doing the work swapping your exhaust to the RS? I guess I'll just keep my ears open and also check the archives in the OBS club to see what has been said there. I surely appreciate that without a dead-space trunk, the sound would be quite amplified! Unless you built a wall in place of the backseat and put in those huge booming speakers like some of our bro's do down here. They call it "the wall"....
by the way, ran the air this afternoon again....

ramon

All the mods are off the OBS when I brought it back. And that includes, all the suspension, pulley, sound system, short shifter etc. Our local Subaru guys were more than happy to transfer the exhaust over to my RS for free. And for that day, they even gave me a Forester to drive. It was actually quite fun.
I have with me a set of mint 2000 RS rims for sale. I bought it last summer and only used it for a short time. So it never saw snow, gravel or salt. I'm selling them for CDN$1000 with the re92 tires as well. Too bad you live so far, otherwise i'd extend the offer to you. No wait, you already have that chick Team Dynamics rims!
Did my laundry yesterday. Ahh.... love the warm fuzzy feeling of freshly dried clothes. I use Bounce.

celeste2

So is the dealer going to transfer all your mods? How did the Forester handle? I've heard they have quite a bit of pick-up. You should put your wheels up for sale on the i-club. You could even post for your area if you didn't want to ship. Well when do you get your new car? Just in time, spring must be just around the corner. We walk at night in shorts and shirt sleeves now and the fragrance of orange blossoms is everywhere... Ahhhhh......

Hey I bet you could use those Bounce sheets as car air fresheners, just throw half of one under the back seat... but of course, you won't want to until you get rid of that "new car" smell....

ramon

already! I picked up that BRP RS last monday. The dealer even took a picture of me. To be added to the owners wall of fame I guess. The only mods that are on the RS upon pickup is the Borla catback. They did the transfer for me for free.
I will put the mods back on step by step. No need to rush. I want to do it in stages so that I can tell what mods gave me what improvements if any. Now that hte exhaust is on, Next mod will be to pick up a K&N filter. Then later will add a Ganzflow intake. I thoroughly hate the stock sound system in the RS. And it came with CD too. Will most likely put my Clarion Proaudio back in next week! That leaves my KYB AGX/Eibach suspension combo and my anti sway bar. Not sure what to do with the UD pulley and the short shifters. Hmm....will put it back in in the summer I guess.
The Forester handles pretty good. Of course it doesn't corner as good as our OBS since it is higher. It was an auto. has a bit of pep actually. Took a Jetta by surprise. heh!

Actually that idea with hte Bounce thing as an air freshener has occured to me. See I have this really kewl air freshener which is like a box and in it is the fragrance element. There are times I felt too cheap to buy the element and was tempted to put in a piece of Bounce paper in it. But wouldn't my friends think that I am so darn cheap? You think girls like that warm fuzzy smell of Bounce?

It's still minus 0 degrees here! grr.... at least there's no more snow.
I already miss my OBS. You know I am Gambit there at the i club eh? ;-)

celeste2

Of course I know you're Gambit, remember, I figured that out right away. Saw your pic of the OBS in the i-club yesterday. Great background. Is that a church? There's no mistaking speech patterns, it like a fingerprint. So, does your Borla system drone in the RS like in the OBS? Driving both cars and now having more HP, where do you see the difference? Every gear or only on the high end? Your Clarion is from the OBS, right? I have one of those portable CD players with an adaptor that can be plugged in the car. It fits in that little compartment, you know the one. But I only use that on trips and just make my own tapes for junkets around town. Boy I dread when that tape player goes out because I don't like anybody touching my car, and the thought of some ape getting into my electrical system just gives me chills.... You know, they make different fragrances in all those dryer sheets. I'll bet some of them aren't much different than some of the fragrances you can buy. Right now I could grab a handful of those orange blossoms and throw em' on the floor in the back, but the idea of that already has me sneezing!

ramon

And I know u're subymamma. That pix is taken by one of our University buildings. It's called Middlesex College. The faculty of Computer Science, Math and Journalism is in that building. It's pretty neat. Too bad due to the lighting, you can't see the side skirts of the car. The skirts complemented the smooth OBS shape very nicely.
The RS has more go. It will lunge out faster than my old OBS. It is less drony with the Borla too. I have yet to put back all the "power mods" in it yet so it's hard to decide. Also I am driving really gently because of the break-in procedure.
I am not sure what u're getting at with the portable thingy. My Clarion deck is a full head unit with a detachable faceplate. You can check it out at Crutchfield.com . It replaces the entire head unit of the car. It sounds way better than the stock unit because it pumps out more power to the speakers. The stock speakers are ok. It just need more juice.

leomort

Looks like it'll be nice! That 2.5L H4 should make the car peppy, don't you think? Did they make any other improvements to this car? Such as increasing the rear legroom or cargo space?

Leo

rsholland

The rear legroom is marginly better than the outgoing model. We have an '96 Impreza Outback, and I sat in the new 2002 WRX wagon and sedan at the Philly Auto Show last month.

Besides the 2.5 engine, the OBS gets larger 16" alloy wheels with 205/55 BLACK (not white) lettered tires. It also gets an ambient temperature gauge—and it is the only new Impreza to get that feature.

While I haven't actually seen the new OBS in person, I have seen the WRX wagon, and I have seen some very good photographs (at a dealer) of the OBS. It's very handsome, and IMHO, much better looking than the outgoing model.

The dealers should be getting them any time now.

Bob

ramon

u're wrong. The OMS I saw at the auto show is ugly. It looks like it's lost or something. Heheheh... us be the poky green. Am waiting for the silver colored OMS. The interior is terrible! Actually the fabrics. It reminds me of some old couch. Why Subaru? Otherwise the car is good especially now that it has a 2.5l engine. But then again, it's porkier. It'll prolly evens out.
It is bigger inside though. Should be more refined than the outgoing OBS. It just losts it's spunkiness IMHO. But ppl won't miss what they never had. ;-)

leomort

what does the "OMS" stand for? I know you subbie fans like to sling around those initials but to the uniform or those not familiar w/ subarus find it hard to follow. Are you saying the new Impreza Outback Sport's new, more powerful 2.5L engine will be negated by its increase weight? I seen the Impreza 2.5 RS being praised for it's spunkiness and handling but the Impreza Outback sport with its 2.2l critized for its lackluster performance.
I think the rear legroom on the Imreza Outack Sport is 33.5". If they can increase that by an inch or so that would be big improvement.

Leo

barresa62

The rear seat legroom for the 2001 OBS is 32.4" The rear legroom for the WRX sportwagon is 33.7". The WRX sedan is 33". For comparison: The OB is 34.3" & the Forester is 33.4" As you can see, Subaru did increase the rear legroom by over an inch but not from the figure you quoted. Hope this clears up any confusion.

Stephen

ramon

Oh man... I must've pressed the Spell Checker. The RS is more spunky to the older OBS because it has a larger engine and it weighs a bit less. You seriously think a 3300lb Legacy GT is alot faster than a 2.2l L Impreza which weighs 2700lbs?
Actually if you can dig up some old reviews of the OBS, it garnered alot of praises.
Anyhow, let's wait and see how the 2.5l OBS fare. It should be good nevertheless.

celeste2

The "lackluster" performance of the 2.2 OBS you mentioned would have gotten that tag from those who want the performance of something they can race. I have a 2000 OBS with the 2.2 and no ad-dons, I only do regular driving, and let me tell you, with a manual shift, there's NOTHING wrong with the pickup of that car! Because of the AWD, you can launch this car from a standstill and get some real excitement.

This is what I wish I had that they started with the 2001 model: dual cupholders in the front!

RAMON: this DC player is kind of like a Sony Walk man, you know, a one-disk, small, personal CD unit (ya'll do have those up in the frozen north, don't you?), and there's an adaptor where you use the power outlet in the cigarette lighter, and an adaptor for the audio that looks like a cassette tape that you put into the tape receptacle of the car. Whew! So, the sound of your CD comes thru your speakers in the car. Not the absolute best, but OK for in a car. We have been audiophiles for ages now, and have innumerable CD's of all categories of music, but our good equipment is home in the living room because I don't want to encourage someone breaking into my car! Anyway, I'm never driving for very long at a time. When we do take a small trip the portable CD player suffices.

And: watch out for this spell check. It changes OBS to OMS and AWD to WAD!!! And it makes Ramon Radon!! SOME SPELLCHECK!! MISspellcheck!

rsholland

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You don't like the looks of the new 2002 model, and I do. To each his own.

Whether you like the looks or not, the new model is a "better" vehicle than the outgoing model.

Bob

celeste2

Only time will tell....

rsholland

Subaru has an excellent track record in terms of reliability. I don't expect any problems with the new model. On paper, the car appears to be a winner. But, you're right... only time will tell.

Bob

ramon

it's in the eye of the beholder rsholland. that i agree. I think it will be the accepted shape in years to come. Everything has to change right? But for now, it the design is receiving an appaling response. It just losts it's spunky character. It's more upscale now. Nothing wrong with that.

If it still comes with a 2.2l wouldn't your view be different then? a heavier car with a less powerful engine?
If you drive manual, the 2.2l is quite peppy. It's the auto that sux. Heck it sux even in a 2.5l so...

Celeste : i know what u're refering to. My friend has it. I contemplated those but in the end I decided might as well get a full head unit.

rsholland

I'm not in total agreement with all the criticism leveled at the new Impreza, in terms of styling. True, it's not as "good" as I would have liked, but it's not as bad as some have suggested either. I think once people start seeing it in person, their feelings will change quickly.

And yes, if it came with the old engine I'd be less happy, but that has nothing to do with styling, which is what I though we were talking about.

If you want to talk about the total "package," then there is no question, IMO, that the new model is better than the old model.

Bob

ramon

as a utility small wagon yes. It is better. But not by much. Again it's my opinion. It is better because of the larger engine.
But alot of us who buys the Scoob knows that it's for ht anti-thesis status of driving experience. The new design OBS has lots it's charm somehow. it's no longer that tenacious mutt that we grew to enjoy. It's now just another smaller Outback. Which is totally fine. But the old school owners are abit disappointed.
The steering wheel and the shifters are still like the old one. AFAIK aesthetically, only the dash was changed. It has larger interior. The seats felt the same only with crummier fabric. Still no rear disc but added more weight. Hmm....
Everything evolves and in time I think i too will grow to accept the car itself. I do expect thast new models should be better than the model they replace. Sometimes, numbers and stats cannot fulfil something which are emotional. But after sampling the OBS at the autoshow i came out disappointed. I For that price, I'd go for the RS which at least has rear discs, leather wrapped steering wheel, shifters, bigger brakes etc. And if I won't mind the bareness, a TS wagon will be just fine.

I guess what I want to point out is that the new OBS has nothing really to separate itself entirely from a cheaper TS wagon other than the tutone paint.

rsholland

Our '96 Impreza Outback has rear disks. The next year, '97, when they changed the name to Outback Sport, they dropped the rear disk brakes.

The new OBS has 16" tires with alloys standard, and an ambient temperature gauge. The TS come with 15" tires and wheel covers. No other Impreza comes with the ambient temperature gauge. The OBS also has a slightly raised and HD suspension.

Bob

ramon

I forgot how the US OBS has hubcaps while the Canadian OBS and TS has light weight 15" alloys. So to us, the 16" was that big a deal from our 15".
In my short years of owning my loveable OBS, I have yet gone to a place which requires that extra 20mm ground clearance which a regular Impreza can't go. What I'm saying .... ah forget it. I'm too lazy to go on. It's Sunday night and I am going to call it a day. hehehehe.... the ambient temperature is nice to look at but like sunglass holders are useless to me.

barresa11

Your points are well taken but from what I've heard from dealers and read from reviewers, the new Impreza is light years ahead of the old in noise/vibration/harshness. This alone would make it an improvement over the older OBS much the same way the 00'OB & Legacy did over the 99' and older.

Stephen

ramon

for NVH there is without a shadow of a doubt that hte new design is better. Anyone who argues that the old OBS is better in that dept. is a nutter. hahahaha...
They have to. It is now catering to wine and cheese dolts who cares about cupholders and how their Bach would sound in the car. For us folks who cravs the driving pleaure, the communication b/t car and driver these accoutrements are not what we care for right?
Likewise, the 22b is the ultimate Impreza despite it's harshness compared to the latest WRX.

barresa62

Low N/V/H levels are not and do not have to be mutually exclusive from each other! For mfgs to suggest otherwise is a pure cop-out and most consumers know that these days and will not except less. I'm not talking about some characteristic engine growl or the like. This is great and what sets Subaru apart from the Toyota's & Honda's of the world (amongst other attributes). Witness the WRX, by all accounts it's more civilized as a daily driver than the previous edition. In no way did this diminish the driving excitement. I don't find anything amusing or a badge of enthusiast chutzpah living w/a noisier or less sophisticated car unless there is a large difference in performance....a REALLY large difference that would make up for the negatives. This has nothing to do w/cupholders, or up-market stereos, and such. Just my inflated .02. :-)

BTW, this comes from one who imported (from Germany)a lowered, hot-rodded 80' LeCar (R-5 Alpine for those who know of such things). It had 185/60 alloy wheels/tires (Pirelli), 103HP engine, bilstein shocks, etc. It weighed about 1900 lbs and went like a scalded cat, however it was about as enjoyable to live with as an in-grown toe nail. Just that I'd share what my point of reference is, as extreme as that is.

Stephen

Stephen

celeste2

Anyway, my 2000 OBS isn't noisy at all. Now my last car, older Volvo wagon... THAT was noisy!!

celeste2

When you mentioned 2tone paint on the OBS I started wondering if you saw that cartoon someone posted at the i-club. It was kinda long, about 3-5 min. and called "Tutone" or something like that about a guy with some Honda like thing that wrecks it and gets talked into putting a body kit on, but is too cheap to repaint and the car comes out red & white. At the end he and his friend are looking at it and talking themselves into liking the look by repeating, "Two tone, yeah, twoooo tooone, man!" How hilarios! Did you see that? yuk, yuk, yuk....

ramon

is fine but to me,but to get me get that car, I require a big performance upgrade like the WRX. I find it very hard to swallow the new OBS other than the fact it has a larger engine. The rest of the "upgrades" do not make me go googoo ga ga over. That's just me. I am contented with the NVH of the older OBS which actually has more character since you can still hear that wonderful Boxer growl which is being dumbed down by the new design to suit the general public. I'm prolly one of the minority here. Given if the new OBS still sports the same design of the current OBS but with the bigger engine, I would be so happy. One thing I do like the change is the overall dashboard which is better than the older OBS. Sorry celeste, the curent OBS dash is really old and it shows. But again, I don't really care since I enjoy driving our 90s Miata over our 96 Mx-6 fully loaded or the 330Ci. Why? Because the relatively slow and less refined Miata connects me to the road right there right now!
I think we're diverting.... anyways I was not impressed with the interior due to the fabric design.

barresa62

I wasn't calling the OBS noisy, just in comparison to the new Impreza platform. Much like the difference between the 99' and older Legacy platform vs 00' and newer. :-)

Stephen

celeste2

Yeah, I want the new cupholder design--sigh! But, I'm content, they can have all the rest. By the way, Ramon, have you had alot of trouble with the paint on your OBS? I've heard alot of complaints about the paint on the Rally Sports, and figured they used the same on the OBS. I haven't noticed much that's bad, maybe one discolored spot under the paint and some places that aren't perfect, but I don't deal much with gravel and things that deface paint here and keep it washed and waxed and park it under cover.

Anyone else-have much trouble with your paint? Wonder if the paint is different on the new OBS and Impreza line???

barresa62

My salesguy steered my away from the black color saying that they had a lot of incidents of premature chipping on Impreza's. I decided against this color for another reason; already own a Black Granite colored OB Ltd that is really hard to keep clean. There aren't a whole lot of color choices w/the WRX, just white, black (mica), red (mica), blue (mica),and silver (mica). There is the limited availability of the yellow but only on the sedan. I went w/silver. Normally I'm not a big fan of silver, kind of like another version of white sometimes, but I like it on the WRX. It really sets off the interior, seats (black/blue), and std dash trim (aluminum-like plastic). Anyhow, my silver 5spd WRX wagon should be here in about a week or so.

Stephen

ramon

well i can honestly tell you celest that the paint on my OBS was amazing. Prolly due to the bug deflector that i have. Maybe the lower tutone is stronger too compared to the primary colour. I am quite worried about my Rally Sport's paint. Especially this is winter time. Anyways will order another bug deflector again. My old one broke.
One word of caution barressa, dark colours are a PITA to keep clean! Oh wait, u're getting a silver. Well nevermind what I said. Silver rocks!

barresa11

Ramon: I did consider the black until I remembered exactly what you said. Totally a PITA to keep looking clean and shiny! I also think that the silver won't (God, forbid) show scratches and chips as much as the black.

Stephen

ramon

u don't have to worry unless u're scan for scratches everytime you wash your car. My old silver OBS hides scratches very very well. Only I know. hahahaha....
dark colours are nice when they are clean in the first 5 minutes. After that it's down hill.... you can't even hide finger prints with dark colours!!!!

celeste2

boy IMHO there's nothing sexier than a shiny clean black car. But yeah, in real life, how long do they stay like that? Barresa, the silver is really good at hiding dirt. My OBS is silver and when it's clean looks great and even dirty looks really darn good.

Ramon-did you see that topic on the I-club about some kind of paint protector finish stuff? Some guy was going to try it I think, wonder how it'll work????

But, ya know, maybe you can plan for a paint job in the future, some guy on I-club was getting opinions of paint colors on his RS and it makes your mouth water to think of the possibilties, eh? What color would you get if you could get ANY color and easily afford it??? ANYONE???

brekke

I waited for the new OBS because of the 2.5L and the stiffer body. I wish it were an RS wagon. My current car is fun to drive, like a go-kart, but tons of NVH. I wouldn't mind a slightly more refined ride, but not dumbed down because the fun to drive factor is a must. I agree the green is blech, I would probably get white. I'm disappointed in the crummy interior re: Ramon, but I haven't seen it in person. If I don't like the OBS I don't know what to get. I'll test-drive a VW Golf but I don't think it's the same value, and I really want AWD. My car only has 118hp and 103 lbs-ft of torque and weighs 2300 lbs so I'm hoping the imprezas will be a lot peppier. That's my second must, to be able to cruise at 70 mph without all that noise. And vibration. and harshness.

ramon

gonna paint mine gun metal grey just like the kewl bimmers. Yup.
celeste i think u watch too much Knight Rider. I have to admit David Hasselholf has not been the same after he decided to go stark nake in Baywatch. He is better off with KITT.
brekke : that is just my opinion. Have a look yourself. I am hoping either the white, silver or black would match the lower tutone better. FYI, the bodyside tutone is different than the current OBS. It's not really fully titanium slate.
There's always the TS wagon. Also the RS is nice too. Not a wagon though. But all comes with a 2.5l engine. Yay!