Subaru Legacy/Outback

leo2633

The "Greenish-Grey Opal" and "Grey Opal" were listed on the Subaru window sticker. Right on top where the vehicle description is. No where else on the sticker did it mention colors. I had to look twice, and I wrote the names of the colors down so I wouldn't forget. Wierd, huh?

Len

chuckbean

I too made the choice of the 02 Bean over the 03. I had not driven the 03 but after reading and listening to the pros a cons both in print and on this forum for several months I decided on the 02. My main question was that the suspension issue was never mentioned by anyone. Did Subaru hide this fact from what I have found to be very knowledgeable folks on this forum?
And,is it enough of a change to feel the difference?
I have been very happy with my 02 Bean after driving it cross country and putting over 7500 miles in six weeks on the car. I just wondered why no one seemed to know about the changes in the suspension.

paisan

Well the only reason we knew anything about the vehicle was through what we could see. Suspension stuff you can't see until it's either driven or there are published facts by the manufacturer.

I'm not sure the OB models got a suspension change, I thought it was only the Leggy GT.

-mike

rsholland

the '03 Legacy and Outback got suspension upgrades; not sure if they were the same upgrades, but they were upgraded.

Bob

ateixeira

Last time I was there (about two years ago), an Outback was considered a luxury car at about US$48,000 and the Forester was near luxury at about US$44,000. The Outback was a 2.5l with most of the equipment from the Limited. The Forester was a turbo with a moonroof and leather, i.e. very nice.

Unless they're made in Brazil, cars are not affordable to the middle class for the most part. That's why Renault, Toyota, and Honda built new assembly plants in Brazil. VW, Ford, Fiat, and Chevrolet already build there.

Here's an even funnier example of "Name that Country of Origin". Where would you pin down the Volvo V40?

Swedish, right? Not to fast - Volvo is owned by Ford. American, right? Nope, it's made in the Netherlands, so it's Dutch! Wrong again, that plant is owned by Mitsubishi, so of course it's Japanese! Oops, Mitsu is owned by Chrysler, so once again it's american. But holy cow! DCX owns Chrysler, so it's german! But if I own Ford stock, then it's brazilian! And if Guigiaro designed it, would it be italian?

See what I mean?

Len: strange indeed.

They say the struts got internal rebound springs, whatever that means. So the struts themselves were upgraded, but I bet the coil springs are identical. So are the tires, so I bet it's hard to tell the difference.

-juice

scubadvr

Hello all,

Due to the great amount of advice I have received here in the past, I hope to again request a small amount of help. I have seen questions like the ones I am about to ask answered in the past, but after quickly scanning about 1500 posts, I'm taking the easy way out and am asking the questions again. Thanks in advance for any help!

I'd like to know what oil filter to use in the Subaru H6, and where to find these for the best price online. Also, I would like to know what washer I need, and if I need to replace the oil plug at the same time. And, in the same topic, what is the recommended oil type/brand to use in the H6?

Also, does anyone have a somewhat inexpensive source for buying the Subaru manual(s)?

Thanks again for any and all help.

Colin in SoCal

self_mechanic

A good oil filter is a Mobil 1 (part# M1-104). It uses synthetic filter media, but the price is a little steep ($11.99 at Autozone). For my Bean as well as my Oddy and Corolla, I use fully synthetic Mobil 1 5W30 oil and Bosch premium oil filter (part# 3312 for both Sube and Oddy, $5.99/filter) religiously and change oil/filter at every 7500 miles. Another good oil filter is a Pure One made by Purolator. When the time comes, I also intend to replace the transmission and differential fluids with synthetic oil either Amsoil or Redline brand. Hope this helps. If you want more informations on synthetic oil and filter, check out the "Maintanance and Repair" topic at Edmund's site.

Alland

mayaderen

Hello.
I'm a newbie, hoping you haven't already covered this. I have a 1997 Impreza Outback Sport. I'm pretty happy with it, but it's looking quite shoddy since the wheel covers fell off. I've noticed many others on the road also missing wheel covers. I bought some cheap-o replacements but had a tough time getting the seal (for lack of a better term) that holds the covers to the wheel, off. Our family mechanic offered to do it for me, but then realized it was a bit of a job and said he'd have to charge me for it. Just wondering if others have run into this problem too, and if so, what they've opted for. I'm considering buying new wheels.

In advance, thanks to all.

ateixeira

Subaru's OE filter is made by Purolator. Try e-mailing parts@libertysubaru.com, you may find the OE filter, at about $4, is a pretty good price.

Or try NAPA, PepBoys, TrakAuto, whoever you have in your area, just stick with Purolator or another reputable brand.

Cory: what size wheels are those? I have a complete set of OE 15" wheel covers from our Legacy that lock on to the wheel. Good ones lock on, cheap ones will just fall off at the next pot hole.

E-mail me at ateixeira@ifc.org if you are interested. Someone else expressed interest but has not gotten back in touch with me. I'd sell 'em cheap to any other Subaru Crew member.

-juice

idahodoug

I'm looking for a set of Outback cargo tie downs for my '97 Legacy. There are 4 of them and they are $4 each at the dealer, but the black plastic covers I also need to form the hole in the carpet are $12 each. Go figure why the nice welded structural hook is a third the price of a molded plastic oval plug, but...

Anyhow, no Subarus in our local yards and this small a part is not listed when you contact internet salvage yards. Anyone on the list find themselves in a wrecking yard with Outbacks in it that would like to help me out? Takes about 3 minutes per (a single screw) hook to pull the whole thing out.

Thanks!

IdahoDoug

mfsb

frankoma, The remaining two speakers are located in the two pillars on either side of the rear gate.

ateixeira

I've been to a few junk yards but never saw a newer Subie. An occasional older Loyale and maybe one or two old Legacys, but that's about it. I think 95% of Subies sold in the last 10 years are still registered and on the road.

Bummer, in a way, good in another.

-juice

jim255

Mayaderen,

I had the same problem with wheel covers coming off my 97 OBS because the twist locks did not secure them properly.

To get the replacements to fit, I had to pull out the insert ring in the wheel that the twist locks attach to. The Subaru dealer said that sometimes they are hard to remove, but mine came out easy.

sebberry

Does anybody know the diamater of the door speakers in the '03 Outback LL Bean?

Thanks

ateixeira

The ones on our 2002 Legacy seem to lock pretty darn tight, in fact I could not get them on to the steel rims after the tire shop removed them (they installed alloys).

In fact, any hints as to how they work? I guess I have to twist to install them too?

-juice

breckco

We just bought an 03 OB 5spd a few weeks ago. Some of you have asked about the new suspension so I thought I share my feelings about the new car. I had a 2000 OB 5 spd and the 03 handles better and takes bumps better as well. Not a huge difference, but noticable. The car also seems to be a bit quieter. I'm glad the all weather package is standard (was hard to find our 2000 with awp in San Diego). The single disk cd is now standard also.

Can't go wrong with either an 02 or 03 in my opinion.

web3

I'm taking our 02 OB Limited 5 spd for the 15000 mile check, LOF, and rotation. Everything seems fairly straight forward. However, my clutch still shutters intermittently after sitting overnight. I have started a file with SOA. The service manager was able to duplicate the problem but the district rep told him it was "normal." I've driven manual transmissions from a 1964 Army jeep to a 1999 Civic and this is not normal. Other than the clutch the car is great. I haven't seen this problem mentioned for a while so hopefully it has been remedied. Has anyone had any luck in resolving this clutch issue?

amrod

After hunting for over a year, I've decided my next car will be a Legacy GT sedan. Just curious, however, if anyone is aware of a aftermarket turbo for this particular model. Using rather flabby logic, I would think that if the WRX can sport a turbocharger, why can't the Legacy?
Anyone know of anyone who has attempted this?
Thanks in advance,
Q.

rob999

Here's one aftermarket company that specializes in Subaru turbo kits:

http://forcedairtech.com

ateixeira

Chris: interesting to hear you felt a difference. I wonder how much influence the tires have, vs. the suspension. They switched tires last year, so I guess if you drove a 2002 and 2003 back-to-back and noticed any change, it could be attributed to the suspension alone.

web3: 47k miles on my original clutch. The good news is that even though clutch chatter isn't uncommon, the clutches do seem to last. Has anyone here had outright clutch failure? I'd be curious to know the mileage if/when that happened.

A guy just turbocharged his Forester, with the same engine. Check i-club.com.

-juice

drevil69

Like the title says, I have a '01 Outback LTD and I need new tires.

Here's a little background before you make a suggestion. I live in the Washington, D.C. area, and we haven't seen a lot of snow in the last couple of years. I drive to work (~30 miles RT) every weekday, and I mountain bike at least 4-5 times a week, so add at least another 300 miles for that. I rarely go onto gravel roads to get to the trailhead, but I want something that will work decently on that surface as well, just in case.

Price isn't too big a concern, although I would like to stay under $500 for the price of all 4 tires, but I could go up to $600 if there are tires that are worth it.

Where's a good place to start looking, then finally order and install those suckas (remember, DC area)? I am a total newbie when it comes to cars. Ask me anything about mountain bikes though... ;^)

ateixeira

Pricing is best on-line, from Tire Rack or Discount Tire Direct.

You can mount them at Costco for something like $8 per tire, and that price includes everything. You do need to be a member, though.

I have Nittos of the same size, but they are not good in snow and don't have the gravel characteristics you desire.

-juice

idahodoug

The description of your tire needs really isn't a particularly demanding one. Sounds like just about anything would do since you don't need snow or mud capability. Even Nittos or full race tires will get you around on a gravel road, eh? I can't see an AWD Sube having trouble with traction.

That's a good budget and I recently spent $430 on the Michelin X1s - a premium tire from a premium brand. Mine were 15", so yours may be larger/more expensive. This was at my local tire shop and Sears would have been $4/tire cheaper but I like to support the little guys in this big box world when I can.

I've bought from TireRack and from my local Michelin store in the past. My experience with TIreRack is that by the time you pay for shipping, the tires arrive at your door perhaps $20/tire cheaper than local purchase. Quality mounting and balancing costs about $12 in my area.

By contrast, local purchase includes mounting and balancing and rotation for the life of the tire. If you buy at TireRack and have a problem down the road, the local tire store will be a little less quick to help you if you did not buy them at their store. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but this is true whether it's a car dealer or a VCR player.

Last year, I had gotten fed up with a set of tires that would not hold balance well on my truck. The local shop replaced them with new ones and I drove off an hour later completely satisfied. They sent them back to the factory as defective. If these were purchased out of town, I cannot even begin to guess how the story would have ended. This solved the problem BTW - must have been a bad batch.

So, by the time you pay to have them mounted, the savings is fairly minor and you'll be paying for a rotation twice a year which adds up. I should say all my dealings with TireRack have been first rate, by the way. Just yesterday I installed a set of Hella FF200s I purchased at - you guessed it - TireRack.

Just my two cents, your mileage may vary.

IdahoDoug

paisan

I think your area really depends on if you should go Tirerack v. Local

Here in NYC tires @ a tireshop generally will cost me at least $75-$150 more for a set of 4 than buying them from tirerack, even with getting them mounted and shipped.

Also most shops around here only want to be bothered with the Bling Bling R@cers who dump $1500 in tires and rims in one shot.

-mike

ateixeira

My experience was more like paisan's, in that the price difference was more like $25 per tire, not total. So I found it worthwhile to order them on-line. And if you get a high quality tire, the risk of getting a defective one it fairly low.

But I'd say get price quotes and compare, since each method has its advantages. For instance, I had to wait several days to get the tires, and then wait again to schedule an appt to mount them.

In my case, I rotate them myself, so that's free. I torque them carefully, and I'm not sure whether the tire shops are as careful.

-juice

paisan

If the price in my area was $25 total, I'd get em localy in a heartbeat.

-mike

ateixeira

Me too, no doubt.

-juice

taddison

Juice,

You are right that tire shops often over-torque wheel nuts. I checked mine once and found that they were tightened to over 140lbft - double the specified value. I suspect this is what caused my rotors to warp.

My local Gemini (Goodyear) shop is terrible about this - they must just use the air wrench to tighten the nuts. They always over-inflate my tires too. I now go to NTB, where they allow customers into the work area to watch, and they start off with the air wrench but then finish tightening with a torque wrench.

oclvframe

Tim,

NTB is pulling the wool over your head...if they use the air wrench first, unless they are using a torque stick of a much lower torque rating than what is specified for your wheels. What happens is if they come in and torque the nuts down beyond the required amount, then when they follow up with a click type torque wrench, it will just click but not do anything since the torque setting has already been exceeded.

The only correct way to do this is to thread the nuts on by hand and torque them with a torque wrench. As Juice said, I rotate the tires myself...no one else to hold accountable.

BTW I must add that I will never do business with NTB again, too many bad experiences with those jokers. Of course, I am the dummy because after the first screw up, I went back for more!

-r

ateixeira

I recall some M-B vehicles require 120 ft-lbs, something about how the hubs are designed. So many they had set it there, and then forgot to change it.

-juice

storyteller

Juice: I'm considering purchasing a 2002 Legacy L wagon. Can't remember if you decided to get fogs. Some cars (CRX) look queer without fogs in the openings made for them, but I don't get that sense with the Legacy L.

Ever since the stock market flopped I have had to worry about how I'd afford a Subie. The $1200 dealer payback might open a door for me now, although prices here in the Frozen North aren't nearly as competitive as in the NE.

the still Subie-less Steve

jay_24

Whitebear subaru (Rudy Luther)will be $500 over invoice. no haggle deal. Only catch is you need to contact the internet sales guy. The rest of them are regular car salesmen. Interested? I have his name and email somewhere...

I can't say I recommend the service department. They seem to do OK work, but charge for premium service...

--jay
(fellow Northlander in the frozen tundra)

storyteller

Jay: Hi, fellow northlander, and thanks! That's where I would like to buy something new, based on research I've done by quizzing about two dozen Subie owners I've accosted in various parking lots this summer. That $500 over would be on the price with the new $1200 incentive, I assume.

White Bear has one on their lot that would do: MT 2002 Legacy L wagon in Timberline Green Pearl. I'd rather have AT, based on reading posts from people talking about shuddering clutches, but I figured they'd be aggressive in dealing a car that has been on the lot a mighty long time.

I've got a much better place (closer to my Saint Paul bungalow, too) to get service after warranty stuff is over. So service isn't the big issue. I want to buy a car at a price so low they fire the salesman as I drive away.

Steve

jay_24

I got $500 over invoice before they had cash back (2001) so I'd bet they would be bellow invoice now....

epeterson@whitebearasi.dealerspace.com

or

http://www.ImportWebNews.com

Eric Peterson is his name...

taddison

"R" said:

>What happens is if they come in and torque the
>nuts down beyond the required amount, then when
>they follow up with a click type torque wrench,
>it will just click but not do anything since
>the torque setting has already been exceeded

I thought of this and checked the torques myself afterwards (on 2 separate visits), and they were correct. They must have had the air wrench set on low.

I'm sure that individual NTB shops vary in their training and that individual people within the shops do varying quality work, so I will continue to verify the torques myself. I could rotate the tires myself but I can't balance them...

oclvframe

Tim,

As long as you are vigilant of what those folks are doing, you should be fine. My bad experiences with them were on different visits to different shops. I used to swear by them, and that is what kept me going back before.

Now I use Kauffman Tire. I don't think they are nationwide...just regional. They offer free rotation and free flat repair (actual patch and re-balance as opposed to just a plug) regardless of whether or not you bought the tires there....it is just the company policy.

-r

ateixeira

Steve: I did not get the fogs. Just saw the L/SE at a dealer, and they get projector beam fogs, but they still have that grey surround. I prefer the way the GT's fogs are, one big lens.

Don't hurt your dealer too bad, you still want them to be around next time you need a car, or service. They have to feed their kids, too.

I used to be very adversarial with dealerships, but I decided to change that. I actually visited my salesman yesterday, thanked him for the nice treatment, gave him an update on the mods we've done (moonroof, alloys, 6CD, etc). We had a nice chat and he took me out in a 2.5GT just to try the Shiftronic, since I was curious. It's kind of refreshing, we're friendly so there's zero pressure to make a sale. He knows I'll go back there next time.

He said the 2003 L model, sans the SE package, is something they special order only. Isn't that strange? They don't stock any, ever. Tons of L/SEs, though. And he said he has not sold a single 2.5GT yet, because the price is a big jump from the L/SE.

He suggested, and I agreed, that the GT needed more power and 17"s to distinguish itself.

-juice

lark6

And your thoughts on Shiftronic, juice?

Ed

ateixeira

I knew you'd ask, so I put a full write-up under Future Models.

But to summarize, I liked it. Intuitive front/back shifting, easy touch, reasonably quick response. None are immediate, and Subaru's is quicker than Volvo's and VW's, and about the same as Mercedes' in quickness.

I will hold a gear even at high revs, but I noticed it does shift to 1st if you come to a full stop.

I give it a thumbs up.

-juice

lark6

I just read your review, juice. I've driven VW's (in an Audi A4 Avant) and agree with your observation. I can't remember if the Volvo XC I rented had it; and I definitely haven't driven M-B's. In fact I've only ever driven 2 M-Bs in my life: an ML320 and an early '80's 300TD wagon. I did try the BMW Steptronic in a 540i Touring and loved it, but then that car has gobs o' power.

Ed

ateixeira

The one in the Lexus IS300 has buttons on the wheel, and gave the fastest response I've ever sampled. But they don't let you select 1st gear, just 1-2, so you're not in full control.

-juice

storyteller

Juice: Thanks. I take it you don't think the fog-less L looks like some blind critter you'd find living in the deep recesses of a cave. Most posters say they don't get much function from the fogs.

I was kidding about driving a hard bargain at the dealership. I'm a real wuss. Anyway, I'm going to send my friend Kristin to negotiate my next car purchase. I convinced her to buy a used Forester and was helping her with negotiations because she's too sweet to drive a hard bargain. But the one day she went car shopping without me she bought her Forester at $2,000 less than Edmunds TMV. Kristin is Playmate material, and I'm pretty sure that salesman wasn't thinking with his brain when he negotiated that sale.

Lookin' at a barely used OB today.

Steve

ateixeira

I don't like the grey plugs in their place, but I can live with them. I wish they were body colored.

Good luck shopping.

-juice

idahodoug

I've never been satisfied with factory fogs on a car before. Because for so long American drivers have considered extra lights as a styling exercise, the manufacturers have been giving them what they want. They are generally little more than 25 watt vaguely focused blobs. This includes the high quality polyellipsoid fogs that came on my '97 Audi A6.

I'd buy the model without the fogs and put your own on if you want usable fog outputs. This also gives you an opportunity to wire them so you can actually use them alone as opposed to the factory foglamps that force you to have the low beams on also. If conditions are bad enough a foglamp is needed to cut glare, having the low beams on is ludicrous as it will create so much glare even a quality foglamp will not give you good results.

IdahoDoug

ateixeira

They're mostly cosmetic. They sure look better than the grey plugs that otherwise take their place.

-juice

nygreg

A few of us have purchased Dunlop Sport A2s. So far we are pretty happy. Quiet, good grip, very good in wet weather. Snow is an open question until January. If you trust your local Sears, they have been selling them for $99/tire. This is just a little more than what you would pay for Tirerack + Costco installation. I did the tirerack/Costco route.

Greg

senturi

I recently discovered a single orange wire of very narrow gauge hanging down under the glove box on the passenger side.
The wire was clearly visible and it was running into the right side door panel. I was able to reposition the wire up inside the dash. I am not sure how this wire got loose, or what it's purpose. Possibly it's for the alarm. Does anyone know it's purpose?

Thanks

hypov

Bright orange?
Might be the air bag.

-Dave

ateixeira

Get some tie straps and fasten it carefully to nearby wires.

Strange that a single wire would get loose like that.

-juice

ccampbell4

This weekend the security light starting blinking on my '02. It blinks twice quickly, then pauses, blinks twice, etc. The only thing I could find in the manual was a single blink or triple blink. Any idea what this could mean or what needs to be done?