Subaru Legacy/Outback

hondafriek

I swapped the horns on my 2001 GT I used the Fiamm twin horns and they are a direct replacement.

Cheers Pat.

subiewh97

Anybody have any good tips on adding a small jump seat or other small seat in the cargo space of a Legacy Wagon? I've got a '97 that I want to add a seat to so I can buckle children in on car pool days. I've seen such aftermarket seats for larger SUVs but haven't seen anything yet for a Subaru.

david55838

I'll hold off on the switch to synthetic until maybe the 3rd oil change (6500 miles), and I think maybe I'll order the Hella horns. They APPEAR to be an easy swap. What a great board this is!!

David

subiewh97

Anybody have any good tips on adding a small jump seat or other small seat in the cargo space of a Legacy Wagon? I've got a '97 that I want to add a seat to so I can buckle children in on car pool days. I've seen such aftermarket seats for larger SUVs but haven't seen anything yet for a Subaru.

mikenk

For the oil change, the dealer (Plano, TX) cost was $22 for the change and filter, but I supplied the oil.

The tranny change was $210 (incl. tax)and they supplied the Redline fluid. The service manager really pushed this change for the VDC to Redline. I think he was more interested in the well being of the car, rather than his profits, but who knows.

Mike

subearu

just was wondering that's all. I *may* just switch to synth on our OB (for the engine). Still haven't decided just yet.

-Brian

hondafriek

Go synthetic for the engine at least its a no brainer.

Synthetic is superior in every way,IE. less wear and tear on cold start ups,synthetic is all around your motor on cold start while dino is still thinking about getting out of bed.

I will switch the Titan to synthetic at the next oil change, which will be 10,000 kilometres, or 6,000 miles.

Cheers Pat.

jfl

Are the Fiamm twin horns flat horns like stock or are they air horns w/ the separate compressor?

Also, I have free oil changes thru 52,500 miles. Would that be too late to switch to synthetic? I currently have 38,000 mi.
Thx,
Jim

ateixeira

Never too late, really.

-juice

hondafriek

The Fiamms are like stock horns electric, not air, and they are a very simple swap.

I agree with Juice it is never to late to switch to synthetic, you could also offer to pay the difference between dino and synthetic and switch now, that way you would still be ahead of the game.

You would only pay the cost between your free change and what synthetic costs.

Cheers Pat.

fibber2

as I backed it into a concrete light pole base. Just a couple of paint chips, but boy was I p..'ed. That's what you get for rushing between buildings for meetings. Saw the pole, but didn't stop to think about the big, wide base below my filed of view that it was mounted on.....

Steve

ateixeira

Ouch, sorry to hear it. Just cosmetic damage?

Get some touch-up paint. It's only about $5.

-juice

pdubois

Sorry to hear about your problem. The very same thing happenned to me. In my case the scratches on the bumper were too deep and numerous so it needed a paint job ($350 Canadian). Unfortunately, a few weeks later, someone scratched the bumper badly while going out of a parking spot, without leaving a note of course. Needed another trip to the bodyshop.

Since then, I have installed 3 rubber bumpers stick on (2 on the sides and one in the middle). They were too ugly in black so I sprayed them with a can of spray paint which is quite close to the Subaru bumper color (It's a Honda one). It is not close enough for touch-up but the rubber strips don't look too bad one painted. If they get scrached, I can easily fix it with the spray and masking tape to protect the rest of the bumper.

By the way, I also have an ultrasonic back-up obstacle detection system, but it does not work well for objects which are on the side of the bumper, only what is behind it.

Pat.

pdubois

Here is a picture of the rear bumper. (Click on thumbnail for full picture).

Pat.

fibber2

Being strongly OCD-Positive, I pulled to a remote area where I would not be laughed at and examined the damage. Lots of yellow paint added, some Subaru (whatever the color is called) lost. I got out my baby wipes and cleaned off the yellow, trimmed the tiny 'hanging chads' of plastic with my pen knife, and immediately treated the wounds with the official touch-up paint (purchased with the vehicle, of course...) that I carry in the center console. Barely noticeable 5 minutes later. Now how is that for anal retentive????

Steve

fibber2

Thanks for the kind words. It was a bad day all around, and this just topped it off. Later I did almost get creamed by some jerk who did a diagonal across the parking lot rather than spend an extra 15 seconds following the stripes.

Pat - liked the moulding. Always thought the black corners looked out of place, but painted they look good.

Steve

david55838

Last night, on the way home from work, I was in stop and go traffic. I noticed my headlights dimmed ever so slightly every time I tapped the brakes. I saw this in the reflection of my lights in the car ahead. Is this normal for Subies? It can't be the alternator in a 3 week old car, can it?

Thanks,
David

By the way, PDubois, those bump strips look great!

hypov

Dave- it's normal. At least it's ever so slightly. The dimming is pretty prominent for my '98 OB.

-(another) Dave

mrk610

Dave and Dave I have a my02 outback and my headlights dim too when I step on the brakes . I guess this is normal . Anybody have an opinion on this subject . Patti have you heard of this b/4 .
Im not really worried I barely notice them .

mike k

bud_ody

A small object (rock ?) airborne and hit the windshield of my new 2002 Outback
at passenger side just below eyelevel. The damage is a crack about 6
inches long. I have it repaired, but the crack line is still visible.
I am thinking of replacing the windshield. Can they replace them nowadays
without the eternal leaking problem of years ago?? Any advice...shared
experience...cautions, do's or don'ts will be greatly appreciated.

ob11

Hi all,
Now that I am an owner, I would like to mount my THULE bike rack on the either the rails or cross members of the outback. Does anyone know what specific "feet" from THULE work best? How do they mount, and how high off the Subaru's roof does the bike rack cross bars actually sit?

Thanks!

pattim3

Yes - it is normal. I can try to get you an explanation if you would like, but all of my test vehicles have done this.

Patti

fibber2

I would view this as pretty much normal at engine idle. Your battery puts out approx 12.6v @ no load. Your alternator puts out approx 14.5v or so. The problem is that even though a midsize car alternator may be rated at 80 amps (at something like 3000 rpm), it puts out almost no amperage at idle speed (600 rpm). So there you are sitting in traffic with your lights running bright at 14+ volts, when you apply the brakes. You just added a minimum of 3 more 20 watt bulbs (5 or so amps), and your alternator cannot keep up. Voltage drops down to maybe even below the battery nominal of 12v. Lights appear to dim by 20% or so. Tickle the gas pedal and they should recover.

Hope this helps,

Steve

david55838

Well, there's the explanation for the lights. Glad to know it's nothing to worry about. Have a great weekend, everyone!!

David

paisan

my XT6 does it, as does all the subies in my family. Most of the cars I've driven I notice it, the only one that doesn't is my trooper, but I think that's cause it has a huge alternator.

-mike

sten2

The Thule parts you need are the 415 railing feet. I have them on my wagon. They work well and go on easily. The bottom of the Thule cross bar is 2 3/8" in the front and 3" in the back, from the middle of the roof. I would also suggest getting a set of core locks too. Of course the rack is noisier than the factory cross bars.

Check out Rack Attack: 1-888-399-RACK free shipping, will beat anyone's price!

 http://www.rackattack.com/ or http://www.gearonthego.com/Company_Info/aaadiscounts.html

Sten

kmclean

Bud -

Having had a few windshields replaced (including my 2K O/B's about a year ago when it wasn't even a year old yet), I'd make two suggestions: 1) the work should carry a lifetime (no limits on miles or years) no-leak guarantee, and 2) if there's a possibility that you'll move to another location, work with a nationwide firm. I'm in Seattle, and I've used Safelite both here and in Maryland - no problems, leaks, whatever. If your O/B has the wiper heater elements at the base, make sure the installer knows that up front. You might also find that your comprehensive auto insurance covers at least some of the job.

David - I've experienced the dimming lights phenomenon in other cars I've owned (don't get to drive the O/B much - maybe I'll make note this weekend if the boss lets me out with it at night). One tip to keep in mind (once your car - and its battery - ages): if the dimming becomes more noticeable, it could suggest your battery is heading south (more likely that than your alternator), and you might want to get it checked and replace it before it strands you.

Speaking of electrical systems/batteries...anyone else heard that within a few(?) years the automotive electrical systems will be 42 volts, with batteries that cost around $200? Apparently all the electrical bells and whistles are driving the upgrade (any old-timers remember the 6-volt systems?).

Cheers from the PNW!

Ken M.

goosegog

If you want to experience the dimming light phenomenon try driving an older British car. My '80 TR8 does this to an extraordinary degree and you don't even have to press the brake pedal; just coming to a stop and having the engine idle is enough! It has an alternator of course, it's not that old, but a poorly designed electrical system with corroded grounds all over the place is the real culprit.

And yes, I have heard this rumour too. The one I heard was 24 volts like trucks use, but the higher the voltage the lower the current (and the thinner the wire) for a given power. Some old f***s like me do remember 6V systems that disappeared around the 50's (except for the VW Beetle). They really were appalling.

Roll on fuel cells.

hondafriek

Leaks should be a thing of the past, not so long ago windshields were installed in a rubber gasket and it was almost impossible to make these things leak proof.

Nowadays windshields are installed in a bed of urethane sealant which conforms to little bumps and ridges, presto no leaks.

Cheers Pat.

vincer2

Oct 8 issue of "Automotive News" has an article about new technology that will be appearing very shortly. Drive by wire, steer by wire and brake by wire will press the need for 42 volt systems beginning in the 2004 model year. GM is also introducing electronic rear wheel steering on its 2002 full sized pickups.

Higher output alternators, probably integrated with the starter, and more robust wiring and connectors will also be required according to "Automotive News".

All of this computing and automotive technology is absolutely fascinating.

Vince

mrk610

Thanks patti and david great explanation. I had a feeling that what the problem is makes me feel better . Patti while I have your attention I've started to experience a new engine noise .
When I start the car on cold mornings after sitting all nite ,the engine sounds fine idling ,But when I drive it I hear a knocking sound which goes away in about 3-5 mins .The level of the sound increases with the more gas you give it .Little gas slight sound more gas more sound . What I'd like to know is if this may be the timing belt tensioner sound that i've read about in here and other forums .I'm almost positive the noise is coming from the engine .Also it only happens on cold mornings .It was very warm today and when I drove the car she sounded great right off the bat after sitting all nite .Anybody else with 00-02 outbacks experience this too . thank you in advance .

mike k

jamesnoel

There is no excucse for lights dimming when you step on the brakes. This IS the year 2001. You have an 80 amp alternator and a battery capable of at least 320 cranking amps. The engine may be turning 650 at idle but the alternator is turning quite a bit faster. It does have an output at idle. The Subaru system is just not that well designed. Test time...go to a Volvo dealership, start the engine on any of their cars, turn on the high beams and see if the engine loses rpms, then try that with your Subaru. I feel your pain people I own a 2001 outback. I love this car but it is far from perfect. It's odd how a rep from SOA can tell you it's normal becauce all the cars she has driven does the same thing.

subearu

Our Saturn does this too. Neighbors GMC truck does it. I've experienced it in some form or another on every vehicle I've owned and driven.

Unfortunately, it is normal, if not for most vehicles.

-Brian

paisan

James, if you feel that the volvo wagon due to the non-dimming lights would be a better choice I'm sure that you could spend the extra $10-$15K on the Volvo for just that feature alone would be worth it

-mike

trinket

My '95 Legacy AWD with 150,000 easy miles on it has started to jerk and buck when turning short on pavement. It's fine on the straight and regular turns, but when turning into parking spaces and the like, the rodeo begins. Has anyone dealt with this before? Thanks.

paisan

Your AWD system is binding. I'd bring it in and have the rear diffy fluid changed and re-filled. Do you have a rear LSD, if so make sure they add the LSD additive.

-mike

stopphysics1

Greetings all...

I'm currently searching for my first subie, and have narrowed it down to the GT Wagon and the Outback wagon. Specifically: model years 97, 98, or 99.

>>My question: What is the REAL difference in the suspension between the two?

The only answer I have gotten (from dealers) thus far: the tires are different, and the hardly noticeable 8/10ths of an inch greater clearance in the Outback. But otherwise they are telling me that the suspensions are the SAME.

Any help with actual technical specs, as well as real-life driving experinces, would be greatly appreciated.

Notes--My use: Lots of long road trips combined with frequent forays into snow-country as well as the millions of miles of US Forest Service logging roads.

Thanks to all who have a moment to reply!
-Ben

paisan

The OB has a raised suspension, meaning that it has it's mounts for the struts mounted lower than those on the GT which translates to a lifted body. This would be of a greater use than a GT on the snow and forest roads. As for tires, you can always replace them with different ones.

-mike

stopphysics1

Good to know about the strut-mounts.

So there isn't any difference in the springs, struts themselves, swaybars, etc...or any other differences in the drivetrain, gearing, etc?

Seems like a whole lot of marketing for 8/10ths of an inch and tires you can change...

ateixeira

The marketing works. The Outback sells at triple the rate of Legacy sales.

Pick the Outback for a soft, tolerant ride, or where ground clearance is important. Pick the GT for the sporty feel, if you like that sort of thing.

trinket: are your front tires the same diameter as the rears? '95 Legacy had no rear LSD, so my guess is you are experiencing "binding" of the front and rear axle. If the tires are sized differently (or a pair is much more worn than the other), the AWD system thinks you are slipping because they are turning at different speeds, so it locks the center differential.

That would certainly explain the jerking.

-juice

paisan

is almost an inch. That makes a big difference. I believe the GT got stiffer springs and struts than the L and OB.

-mike

trinket

I forgot to mention the Legacy is an automatic, the rear differential has always had synthetic gear lube, and I have already added the limited slip differential fluid to it several weeks ago, with no difference in the behavior.

hammersley

I love my '97 OB. Had it almost 2 years now, from 53k to 68k miles. A couple minor recall items (alternator, front A-arms) but otherwise no troubles, and an absolute blast to drive. Ride & handling are both significantly affected by tires, so you might be able to fine tune whichever car you buy with a change there. I went from Michelins to Toyos, for a bit softer & quieter ride.

I really don't think you can go wrong either way. Don't over-analyze yet - we'll take care of the OCD recruiting once you're an owner.

Cheers!
Paul

bud_ody

Thanks Ken and Pat.
It's good to know that leak is a thing in the past.
I talked to my dealer and they also recommend using Safelite. I live in Redmond. Safelite told me that they use after market product and guarantee it for as long as I own the car. However, my dealer said to make sure that I ask for Original Equipment Manufacture (OEM) product. I am not sure if after market product looks exactly the same as the original, and if insurance company will pay for OEM product.

Bud

xenophilepdx

Hi all! I have my Bean for about a year now and love it. However, a couple of minor things that I hope someone can answer for me. 1. Why is the brake so loud, especially in the morning? It's kinda embarrassing in the morning because I feel like I am waking up the neighbors. 2. I hear *minor* rattling noises when my car goes above 75. I can't isolate the source but I think it's coming from the front "wood" panel. Anyone encountered this and managed to fix it? Again, I love my Subaru but hope to make it "perfect".

c_hunter

xenophile: it may be the fake wood dash panel to the left of the steering column. Next time you hear the noise, apply some pressure to the panel near the upper edge to see if the noise goes away. I have heard that noise (which is more of a squeak) on my Outback and one I test drove recently. I have never bothered with it, but it should be fairly easy to fix by applying some friction tape between the panel and it's mounting points.

Ben: I think the suspension is different between the two models. In addition to the ground clearance mentioned already, the Outback suspension has more travel and articulation. The suspension parts would have to be different to allow this, right? I think it's more than just clearance.

re: the dimming lights -- I agree that it's somewhat universal, but it seems more noticeable in Subarus. The lights on my wife's Mazda don't dim at all, and the lights on my last two Hondas barely dimmed (I would almost have to kill the engine to get them to dim). The lights on my Outback definitely dim more noticeably than most cars I have driven.

I had the Outback loaded up with lumber this weekend (on the roof and in the hatch) and it worked out great. The only problem -- there's no easy way to tie the hatch down when you've got stuff sticking out the back. I finally had to run a rope from the tow hook up to the roof rack to lasso the hatch down.

I also got the crooked pinstripes off this weekend. Using a hair dryer really made it easy. Before my wife lent me her hair dryer, it took about 20 minutes to peel off a few inches. With the hair dryer, I did one whole side of the car in under 10 minutes. Some gas on a rag took off any remaining adhesive, and soapy water finished the routine.

Craig

fibber2

James, I stayed with engine speed to keep the discussion simple. Yes, in reality, there is a rotational advantage due to the pulley size differences. Depending on the mfgr, the crank to alternator pulley delta is probably 2.5 to 4x. If we use 3x as a value, then at idle the alternator turns about 2000 rpm, at engine red line close to 20,000 rpm !!! If it were not balanced like a swiss watch, it would probably self destruct at these speeds. And all this with only the lubricant packed on the bearing at build time. Pretty amazing that they last as long as they do.

Could we make the lights not dim at idle? Easy fix is to up the spin speed by changing pulley ratio. Increase the number and density of the windings, or decrease the spacing between the moving and fixed coils. All will affect cost, complexity, wear and operational life. It all becomes a matter of trade-offs.

Having temporary stewardship over my late uncles Mercedes E series AWD sedan has helped to hammer home why some people are willing to spend $50k+ for a car. Better engineering means fewer compromises - but at well better than 2x what I paid.

Steve

fibber2

Did you call me David? If so, I am highly insulted. ;-) That is the last time I ever answer a question of yours.......

Steve

nygreg

Brake noise in the AM is "normal" as most of us have it. There is a fix (shims) that recently was released if the noise bothers you. Ask your dealer to install the shims. No big deal.

Greg

kmclean

Bud -

The replacement windshield that was put in my 2K O/B Ltd. was definitely OEM, as the local (Lake City) Safelite indicated that they had to wait (around a week) to get one from Subaru. That may have been a function of when I had the job done (about a year ago) or the fact that the Ltd has the heating elements at the base of the windshield. The insurance company paid for the OEM - I don't have the figures with me, but it was amazingly cheap (less than $200 as I recall). Safelite is an "authorized installer" for USAA, so I'm certain there's a special price deal in the arrangement (for the insurer).

Hope this helps (especially with our current rains!).

Ken M.