Subaru Outback VDC

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wow, that sounds nasty. Glad you're alive.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    NYS Law also requires that any car under 1 year old (from time of purchase) be replaced by the insurer if it is totalled.

    -mike
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    Has anyone experienced the pinging that others with the 4 cylinder Outbacks talk about? I am considering the VDC as a second vehicle. I am picky and I am sure pinging, even when cold would bug the @$%# out of me.

    Paisan I am glad to see that you are spreading your legal knowledge elsewhere. :-)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    MMMM VDC :)

    Most subies don't ping actually, and I've heard no instances of the VDCs pinging.

    -mike
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    I agree with Mike. Pinging seems to be rare both here on this board and in my personal experiences,


    bit - 2001 GT Wagon

  • smokeybaersmokeybaer Member Posts: 38
    No pinging with my VDC in nearly 13,000 miles even when I used 87 octane. Only difference I noticed using Regular vs Premium was a slight hesitation on starting from a stop. Otherwise performance and MPG seems about the same.

    Warren from Oregon
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    Maybe Patti can clarify this:
    Did they raise the 02 models by 0.6" or is my Owners Manual correct and the marketing material wrong for the 01 that my 01 VDC has a 7.9" clearance also?
    Wondering which is correct,
    Theo
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    The legacy/outback board has several posts regarding pinging...even so much as to say as that is "normal" from people who have had subaru's for years? That is where I saw the information about it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Theo: the low point is the front cross member under the boxer engine, so there may indeed be more clearance on the H6. One of these days I'll crawl under both to check it out.

    -juice
  • ventanabikeventanabike Member Posts: 11
    Hey Juice,

    GREAT photos of your driveway projects!! I was looking at your "general mods" series and I have one question and one comment. You say that the Folgers custom exhaust tip extension adds at least 10hp...didn't you really mean 10 cups? ;-) The Hella horns looked like a real squeeze under the hood of the Forester...I have installed Hellas or Marchal horns on every car I have ever owned...absolutely worth it, especially on the smaller cars. They have saved my wife's Celica GT a number of times in parking lot encounters with Senior Citizens (this one lady in a big caddy flipped on her emergency flashers and laid on her horn and just backed out without turning her head to look at all - probably couldn't). The Hellas outblew the caddy and caused her to stop...whew....what a ruckus...what a close call! If my son had been with us he would have referred her to DMV for an evaluation fer sure...he's with San Diego PD.

    Very good info from Chuck on his VDC getting T-boned by the F150. I'd like to know more about this. The IIHS didn't think much of the F150 in their crash testing....maybe it's a good thing he got nailed by the F150 and not a Tundra...??

    I'm still shopping, and I find everyone's posts to be very valuable...I think my ideal wagon would be a Volvo T5 with VDC running gear, the Volvo XC is pug ugly (but looooove them Volvo seats..even at $10K more than a VDC). About half of the crew I bike with in the Sierra drive OB's and the other half have Tacoma PU's. I've noticed that the OB's seem to ride more comfortably on unpaved roads than other vehicles...kind of like my FS mountain bike on baby heads. Yep, I am trying resist the peer pressure and make an objective choice...that's peer with a "P" not a "B", okay..?

    Jesse
    Ventanabike
  • pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    I'll check at work and get you an answer later today. Thanks to Karen! I can now access Edmunds from work to get some "facts" at my fingertips!

    Patti
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cool, Jesse. Let us know what you end up with.

    A tip: if you want an Outback, join the Mountain Biking Association first. I think you get free clamps for the roof rack.

    The cool thing is you can fit two bikes on the roof, and if you get a trailer hitch, at least two more on a hitch mounted bike rack.

    I have the hitch and hitch bike rack, and that leaves my roof free for other gear. Works like a charm.

    I too liked the XC's seats, but I saw some fairly big blind spots from the thick pillars and huge head rest.

    -juice
  • aakersonaakerson Member Posts: 71
    Patti, thanks for your comments on my thoughts about what is often the weak link in the relationship between you the subaru maker and us the subaru owners. In our case (nine Subarus since 1996 from the same dealer) our dealer is a big part of the reason we stick with Subaru. He's independent (one store, Subaru his biggest brand) and our biggest fear is that he might someday sell to one of the chains, or retire. He's been great to us in all kinds of ways. he doesn't bat 1000% according to other posts on here, but I always recommend him in the same breath that I recommend a Subaru to anyone. One time he REALLY screwed up with a customer referral on a used car, but when I called the sales manager, he made good on it immediately.

    The VW 4Motion wagon has interested me, but I would not even shop one because the dealers I've encountered seem high-pressure and shifty to the point of (in one case) totally misleading advertising on price. Not to mention the curse of ADMs or market price adustments!

    With Subaru, we are fortunate enough to get a great car, great dealer and great linkage with the manufacturer.

    Despite our very positive Subaru dealer experience on the years, as I said before, I believe in general that the dealer is the weakest link in the distribution chain. And for the Subaru dealers, I guess it must be said that after years of relative famine, they've now enjoyed a few years of "feast" and maybe some of them don't know how to handle it. Dealers are small businesses; they have to make overhead and payroll every two weeks -- and customer loyalty certainly does not generate revenue on a two-week basis. But that being said, I also think Subaru dealers under-estimate the nearly unique customer loyalty of Subaru owners. Some of the dealers, judging from these posts, damage it severely.

    One last comment -- I want to reiterate my appreciation to you and Subaru for maintaining this e-mail linkage with owners. It's not only the right thing to do, it's brilliant marketing. Makes me feel like Subaru is still "my" car company and not GM's.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Those thick pillars are necessary to meet Volvo's internal rollover standards. MBzs also have fairly thick C and D pillars. As you no doubt know, Volvo's head restraints are also virtually second to none. I guess it's always a compromise :-)


    Drew
    Host
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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, but that Bigfoot ad was quite a fiasco for them. I recall big truck events actually advertising that Volvos were to be crushed after that.

    Definitely a trade off in visibility, I agree.

    -juice
  • erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    There's always the Volvo Safety Concept Car.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bingo. Good thinking.

    The tiny windows in the A pillars are a bit much. I say use stiffer materials and keep them thin.

    That's why I like frameless windows. Visibility in the Forester is excellent.

    -juice
  • evilizardevilizard Member Posts: 195
    Those thick pillars are also for the side impact airbags if I remeber correctly. The In-seat airbag on the Sube's is an interesting approach, but not without its disadvantages. On one hand its always going to be in the right place (being too forward on the Volvo could be a problem) but its not nearly as substantial (actually it looks kind of insignificant if you imagine the conditions under which it would deploy) and you run the risk of breaking an arm if you happen to have it on the armrest at the wrong time. Remeber if your the passanger arms up and around the head before impact! As the driver you may not have that luxury as you are undoubtably trying to pilot your vehical out of a bad situation during those final moments.

    Getting those arms in the way of your head and a hard object is really important. It can make the difference between a bruise, maybe some stitches or a cast and being a drooling vegetable. Also try to take the impact with the front/back of your head, not the side. Human heads are many times more resistant to damage from a frontal blow than a side impact.
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    I thought the mounted rear camera could do better. Just for backing up? Give it a wider angle, heck, mount cameras on the driver/passenger side too with heads up screen to check out the parameter, no rear view mirror in your face anymore too.
    The flashing brake lights and virtual brake lights were interesting. The adjustable rear seats too.
  • vdchawkvdchawk Member Posts: 40
    Has anyone heard if the 2002 console will fit in a 2001 VDC. My only design complaint about Subaru is the design of the useless pop-out cupholder.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    image


    ...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!

    http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html

  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    image


    ...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!

    http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html

  • dan2001dan2001 Member Posts: 17
    I have a 2001 Bean H6. The manual and maint coupon book show that I should do regular maint every 7500, (after the initial 3000 and 7500).
    But my dealer keeps sending me notes to come in every 3000 or bad things will happen.

    What is the real deal?

    Thanks,
    Dan
  • vincer2vincer2 Member Posts: 97
    Chuck,
    Glad to hear you survived that tremendous impact virtually unscathed.

    Just curious about your lease since you mentioned gap insurance. What's the residual value on your car after the 5 yr 300,000 mile lease expires? Subie's must really hold their value. Don't you also pay a pretty hefty mileage fee?

    I need to mention your impact experience with my wife since she's always concerned about vehicle safety.
    Vince
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dan: Subaru has 2 schedules, depending upon the type of driving you do.

    If you mostly do short commutes, tow a lot, off road much, or generally abuse it then a shorter interval makes sense.

    For longer highway drives, trips, and light duties a 7500 mile interval is fine.

    Of course the dealer wants to make $$$ off service, so he'll recommend the shortest interval possible. But I think even Subaru only requires 3750 or 5000 miles, I forget now.

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    The first few "services" are only oil changes and maybe a tire rotation at 7500. I plan on going to Mobil 1 synthetic oil and Suby oil filters every 5000 miles after I hit 10K. Before 10K I have been changing my oil every 2-3K (at little excessive). Outside of that, the first real service is 30K where you need to change plugs, tranny fluid, coolant, diffy fluid, air filter along with the oil. Just don't exceed the recommended oil change in the Manual for warranty reasons. If you feel more comfortable with an official response you can go to the "Mysubaru.com" website and ask Subaru directly. They will give you a canned answer ("follow the recommendations in your manual").

    Greg
  • happyh6happyh6 Member Posts: 13
    I have a question on the VDC stereo. When I turn the fade to the rear speakers the front (naturally) decrease in volume. Great for the kids to listen to their music and me to drive in relative peace and quiet. However, when I turn the fade to the front speakers only, there is very little change in the volume. The biggest difference is the reduction in base. I love the sound but I am curious about my fade control. Do the rest of your stereos opperate like this?
    Paul H.
  • vdchawkvdchawk Member Posts: 40
    Dan,

    If memory serves the Bean includes the first 3 years oil service. If so I would have it in there every 3000. I change mine every 3000-3500 with Synthetic oil just to be safe.

    Keith
  • yellowbikedonyellowbikedon Member Posts: 228
    The 36K service policy for the LL Bean is oil/filter changes and tire rotations every 7,500 miles. As Juice has indicated, this works well for those who drive under ideal conditions and without all city driving.

    I'll bet you'll find most Bean drivers changing oil more frequently and paying the small difference.

    Don
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    Paul,
    If you sit in the back seat and have someone else adjust the fade, you _will_ notice the change. The quality of the sound system is so good that in the front seat, all of your noticeable sound comes from the front speakers.
    HTH, Theo
  • cminchikcminchik Member Posts: 6
    Vince,
    Gap Insurance is not just for leases! Of course leasing firms want to protect their investment with GI, but it is also available to individuals to protect their liens (loans), whether thru a bank or credit union. I financed thru a credit union and took out the GI as an extra option (it added $195.00 to the total payback...cheap when you think about it.). I have had GI for the past four cars but never needed it till now. After this experience, I never will be without it again!
    Chuck in Maryland
  • smithda1smithda1 Member Posts: 15
    The specifications show that the H6 has a limited slip rear differential but the VDC does not. Does anyone know what affect, if any, this would have in some driving conditions?
  • evilizardevilizard Member Posts: 195
    I saw that spec in the book and its not quite accurate. From everything that I have seen the VDC does have Limited slip on the rear in addition to the VDC components. In the book they list it as an either/or kind of thing when the VDC is actually LS + Others (sensors, brakes and engine control). In terms of traction in adverse conditions the VDC is the king of the Subaru hill, tires down. Some people have tried both the VDC and the bean in slippery places, they remarked the VDC came out ahead but that they needed to go "play" in a ice covered parking lot to tell the difference.

    Consider that with decent tires (Michellans) I can floor it from a stop taking a 90% turn while it's raining and never slip, fishtail or loose traction. And that is with my H-4 96 OB w/o limited slip.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    There is no LSD in the VDC. The VDC's traction control system works *like* an LSD, but not the same as a true lsd. The only model with VTD and LSD is the WRX Automatic Transmission models.

    -mike
  • vincer2vincer2 Member Posts: 97
    Chuck,
    Does gi on a car loan replace your collision coverage or does gi coverage only get invoked when the car is a total loss? If so does it just pay off the balance of the loan?

    I'm curious how it works since the credit union I belong to doesn't offer it but they are always receptive to new ideas.
    Vince
  • vdchawkvdchawk Member Posts: 40
    Mike is correct, there is no LSD on the VDC model. The LSD would not allow the VDC system to function correctly. A LSD would try to keep both rear wheels turning, the VDC system needs to apply braking to one wheel while power is applied to the others. The two systems would work against each other.

    Keith
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Gap insurance only kicks in when your car is a total loss. It covers the difference between what the total loss value is (what your insurance company pays out) and the amount you owe on your loan or lease.

    -mike
  • pocahontaspocahontas Member Posts: 802
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    Just a reminder that the Subaru chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). We look forward to seeing you there!

    http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/subaruchat.html


    Pocahontas

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The traction control function of the VDC does just what an LSD would otherwise do, so they having both would be redundant.

    The VDC manages both axles with brakes and fancy electronics. The LL Bean manages only the rear axle, mechanically.

    The former is better because you could have three wheels on a completely frictionless surface and still get going.

    -juice
  • kmcleankmclean Member Posts: 173
    My 5-speed 2K OB Ltd also has rear LSD - which was a factor in my springing for the Ltd trim level. I believe that's also true of the 2K Ltd auto, and I would imagine also of the '01 and '02 Ltds (unless they dropped the feature to push buyers to the VDC). The 5-speed version also has the 55/45 (or thereabouts) default power split between the front and rear drivers - which sounds akin to the VDC arrangement.

    I believe the side air bags are independent of the front impact system (and independent of each other?), and it sounds like it should have deployed in Chuck's crash.

    Ken in Seattle (and, no, we generally don't harass people contemplating jumping off a bridge)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    All Outbacks have the LSD, since 2001, actually. In 2000 it came with the AWP in the base model, and was standard only in the LTDs.

    Yeah, the manual splits power 50/50, close enough. I think the VDC chose 45/55 just so the press would appreciate a RWD bias.

    -juice in MD, pretty soon NC!
  • smithda1smithda1 Member Posts: 15
    As I understand it the VDC's dependence on the breaks to control wheel torque can lead to break overheating in offroad conditions where slippage and poor traction is constantly occuring. Perhaps this is the reason the 02's have a VDC kill switch which is only affective at low speeds. Of course a VDC Sube with the VDC disabled should not perform as well in off road as the regular H6 with LSD.

    Any thoughts?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    the non VDC version of the H6 is at a disadvantage in that it's only a 80/20 split at best to begin with, wheras the VDC has a 45/55 split of the torque. However if you guys bring a VDC and an LL Bean to the Sept 15th trail-ride (see subaru crew, events) we can pit them against each other off-road.

    -mike
  • happyh6happyh6 Member Posts: 13
    Could one of you gurus explain how the VDC would perform if the VDC was dissabled at all speeds vs a 5 speed transmission. I am considering putting the Outback into some slolom "races" to brush up on my driving skills. I know that the VDC is idiot proof and does not allow for aggressive cornering. It will slow you down to a very conservative speed in the corners so I will dissable it in order to "race". I know that this car is too big to be competitive but keep in mind that I am doing this for fun and to improve my driving skills.
    Thanks for your input.
    Paul
  • kkoomarkkoomar Member Posts: 5
    Hi:

    but the 2002 VDC. IT has the VDC switch to turn it off when not needed. REd one is great...........

    Shop through the net.....get ht best quote....not sure how OR no sales tax works....

    Get yourself a SUBARU/MBNA credit card, which will pay you $500/year for maintenance.....

    pay no more than 500 above invoice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    An OB VDC with the VDC disabled will basically have the same transmission set up as a WRX without the LSD. Power split will be 45/55. A "regular H6" (ie. LL Bean) will have a LSD but it's going to be mostly front wheel drive until the tires slip. My guess is that it would be close, but in very slippery conditions, I think the LL Bean would have the advantage.

    Now, a disabled VDC vs. 5-speed is going to be pretty close. I'm assuming you're talking about Subaru 5-speed trannies. The 5-speeds split torque 50/50 which is close to the VDC. If you're driving a GT or OB, it would have a rear LSD. In very sharp turns, the LSD will prevent the inside rear tire from spinning and may give you an advantage.

    Ken
  • happyh6happyh6 Member Posts: 13
    What is the difference between the LSD and the VTD? Would the VTD not funtion as the LSD if the VDC was disabled. BTW it is possible to disable a 2001 VDC for all speeds.
    Paul H.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    2001:
    1) yank the VDC fuse

    2002:
    1) hit the switch but it will come back on at 30mph
    2) yank the VDC fuse

    -mike
  • happyh6happyh6 Member Posts: 13
    What you can do is leave the fuse in and run a wire from the VDC fuse through the firewall and to a switch. When you hit the switch the "VDC OFF" light will come on. Mount the switch anywhere but leave it at home when you take the car to be serviced. :)
    I am still curious about the VTD function with the VDC off.
    Paul H.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    get into a car accident like that, or your insurance company will probably try to deny the claim, since you changed it from factory spec, disabling a safety feature. I'd personally put in a blown fuse to replace it if you do it often, since that fuse could have blown on impact...

    -mike
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