Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments

jilld

Let's talk about how to use the information we
provide about dealer holdback, incentives and
revates.

jilld

You can find a wealth of information on the Edmund's site at <<A HREF="http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/holdback.html">http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/holdback.html&gt; - be aware that when you hit that link, the info will be in a new browser window. When you are ready, come back here for this discussion!

jilld

a question from anothe topic:

#3 of 3: $1500 Rebate/Incentive (Zapata) Mon 24 Nov '97 (12:58 PM)

Did no my homework and found out $1500 on
both customer rebate and dealer incentive. Dealer said no way Jose, only applicble to the BASIC T100! To me 'BASIC" measn frame and four wheels. Kelly Blue Book only has $500 customer rebate. This is for the Toyota T100 4wd, 5sp, 6 cy, SR5. Who is right? Dealer or Edmunds or Kelly, which is it? Is $1000 over dealer invoice to much, (intent for the $1000 to cover DH, advertising etc). Dealer Holdback 2% of base invoice means exactly what?

Niemeyer5

After reading Edmunds article on dealer holdbacks, I had the understanding that the dealer holdback fee was included in the invoice price.

I am shopping for a new Mitsubishi Eclipse. I had a dealer fax me the invoice so I could see the extra fees he was telling me about. After listing the base invoice price and the invoice price on all the options, they listed some additional fees:

sales promotion fund $100
dealer advertising assn. $382
holdback $439
dealer flooring assistance $220

These fees were added to the invoice price. Then they added 3% on top of that. Is this normal??

Greg

Mitsubishi is the one make that charges the consumer DIRECTLY the holdback amount. Or rather, Mitsubishi allows their dealers to charge this instead of the normal "invisible" holdback.

You do not have to pay this amount, just as you can dispute the percentage when shopping other makes. It is normal for Mitsubishi dealers to charge it, however, and whether or not they'll drop the charge is up to the individual dealer (and whether or not you'll still buy the car).

guitarzan

I'd like to know who you are dealing with because I have never heard of a dealer releasing invoice prices in print! How does their invoice price compare to Edmunds figure? Is it accurate?
The holdback IS included in the invoice price. In other words, if the dealer sold the car at invoice, they make the holdback as profit. And, it is not a "fee", it is a kickback from the manufacturer. I have never heard of the "holdback fee" they are trying to charge you. Anyone else?
May I assume the 3% is the "reasonable" profit they want to make? Well, why should you pay a profit on the advertising charge? It probably has profit built in. And why 2 advertising charges? Are they both legitimate costs? Does anyone know?
Lastly, what is flooring assistance?

Greg

Hate to disagree with you, Guitarzan, but, as I just said, Mitsubishi does things a little differently. Holdback is printed right on the invoice, and everything Niemeyer5 says sounds typical. Expect to pay 1-3% extra in these kind of charges.

Advertising fees are usually always non-negotiable. And flooring assistance? That allows the dealer to have some models on hand at the dealership. (They gotta' pay rent, too.) You can try to argue about each of the charges, but the only one they might (and should) drop is the holdback.

jlb

If a dealer does not have the Chev. Blazer that I want,does a search and finds it at another dealer, which dealer received the holdback? Can I subtract all of the holdback or just a portion of it from invoice to determine dealer cost? What kind of fees should I expect for the dealer going to pick up the Blazer?

copsy

I would like to know where to find information on how well the 1998 Subaru Outback Limited is selling in northern Michigan.

Blakester

Does anyone know where I can find information on
carryover allowances or Dealer incentives on the
1997 Mazda 626? There is no information on the
Edmunds site about Dealer incentives although they
do have the info on the customer rebates ($1,500 for the '97 626).

Thanks in advance...

penelope

I just visited a dealer and was given the invoice and the numbers matched the Edmunds numbers - and he offered to sell at the invoice price. So, that means they make the 3% holdback, right? Then on the trade - I used Edmund's figures on my 90 Accord EX manual trans. without ABS & leather but with everything else including a phone with 157,000 miles and came up with $2700 and he offered me $2000. He said in order to get my business he may be able to add some accessories but that's about it. I think we're $700 off, am I right? Going back tomorrow.

wbwynn

Double check your figures using Microsoft's Carpoint or Intellichoice's Window Sticker +

jwmoore0

I received a mailing from GM this weekend indicating that low interest rate financing is
available on the Firebird (2.9, 3.9). This is missing from Edmunds' list???

rspencer

I'm being told by my local Honda salesperson that there is no 2% holdback for Canada. Can anyone verify this? There certainly are holdbacks for the big 3. I'm rather skeptical of this claim. He also says that Honda works from a 7% margin, not 5%. Needless to say, I've already started looking for quotes elsewhere but am curious about the 2% holdback issue.

BTW, adding 40% to U.S. MSRP for the CRV works out very close to the advertised CDN price.

jflogel

I ordered a Dodge Ram in August, and it is FINALLY about to get here. I just heard an advertisement for $1000 cash back on 1998 Rams. Can I qualify for that?

mattkast

To liang,

Re: is this a good deal?

Your calcultations seem correct. Keep in mind that dealers are more wiiling to deal especiallty towards the end of the year. Double check your figures and the car buying tips from Edmunds and if everything matches up, buy the car for the lower price. By the way, I bought a 97 Accord at invoice, basically 2.5%. They profited the dealer holdback but i was able to "pass" the destination and handling charge to them. Helps if you are informed.

kenboe

Is it true, that the dealer inv. price for the base model of a 1/2 ton truck already includes the destination charges & adv. or FDAF assessment. If they add it on top of the dealer inv. price it is pure profit to them!

mxh

I have seen a 'regional' promotion rebate from Toyota- a $500 coupon for purchasing 1998 Toyota new cars (valid until 1/5/98). I found it from http://www.toyota.com, clicked on the 'dealer services', then used the 'dealer locator' to check my local dealer information. This special program I found so far covers most of the west PA. You can check if it is good at your area. Good luck!

astkmb

I looked under Edmund's "Dealer Rebates / Incentives" and found nothing for Volvos. Do they not have any, or is there simply no information on it? My husband and I are buying tomorrow and need to know fast --- any ideas?

bbains

There are some dealer's in my area who call themselves "high volume/discount" dealers. I assume that this means that they pay Honda, etc. less than the invoice price for the cars on their lots. Is this actually another "figure" that I should factor into my bid, or are they just monkeying around with the other values that services like Edmund's reports on (eg. holdback, rebate, etc.)? If this is another separate discount, how can I determine its amount? Any ideas??

cgianos

Along the line of bbains (#21). In the LA region it is not uncommon to see cars advertised at what should be below invoice and hold back. For example, 98 Accord LX's advertised at 16 which is below dealer cost. I have noticed the same thing with some ford's selling at a price that should cost the dealer money.

Is this an indicator of a regional promotion? If so, is it possible to get more info on these promotions? Or, could it just be that there are a lot of large dealers in the region and they don't pay invoice to begin with?

kevinoconnell

I'm buying a '98 Ford Ranger which is due in on 1/12/98 from the factory. The current rebate for $750 expires 1/5/98. Any current word on an extension to that plan? Thanks.

Kevin

Danise

Would there be a reason that a dealer would tell me that the rebates and incentives for Dodge and Ford are not what is stated in edmunds' listing?
Perhaps to sway me another way or does the listing change for the dealers more often than when the page is updated?

Just curious.

davemuisenga

Shopping for 1997 Explorer, Edmunds lists a$1000
dealer incentive. My dealer says it does not exist. Is the incentive still applicable?

maddie

Does anyone have info on Ford's extension of Windstar rebates past Jan 5, 1998? Need to know real soon.

dpete03

I was at a Ford dealer today, and he said the Windstar rebate and financing was extended to 1/9/98.

39dead

can I figure a holdback on a special ordered car? Are there other issues that I need to be aware of buying a custom order?

glennt

I realize that a buyer must pay certain dealer costs, such as 'transportation,' but why would I pay advertizing, dealer prep, and an administration fee? In the past, car buying guides advised not paying these types of add-ons, why are you (Edmunds) now saying to add these to the dealer invoice?

Why should I have to pay a 79, 89, or 109 dollar administration fee? That's just another way for a dealer to get another 79, 89 or 109 dollars out of you. Dealers need to pay their employees who perform dealer prep duties, or administrative duties out of their profits, not charge me. Any advice or comments out there?

purle

Hey glennt:do like I did,refuse to pay these 100% profit makers. If they tell you EVERYONE pays for these charges and they MUST be included on the sales contract your reply should be OK include them on my contract BUT FIRST DEDUCT the total from the sales price of my new vehicle. This negotiating tool always works for me Good luck!

wwwremote

One comment, I don't think info is really up to date on incentives, this is why, the nissan customer rebate for maximas was 2250 but now has been transfered to the dealer, at least that is what they told me, and I haven't seen it anywhere in Edmunds. One question, does anyone know what the dealer incentive is for honda accords 97s, in CA?

whoosh

I purchased a car that had a $1,000 rebate. Since the dealer didn't have the one that I wanted they had to order it. Now the rebate is off and the car still isn't here and the dealer stated that I could no longer receive the rebate. Why should the dealer problem cost me $1,000? Is this dealer correct?

N/A

I noticed for the past week that the rebait for the 1997 Nissan
240SX was listed as $4000 by this Edmunds site. When I went into the dealer, he stated that the rebait was only $3000. He then showed me what appeared to be a fax with a Nissan logo on it which stated for the Mid-Atlantic region the rebait is infact $3000. Who is correct?

N/A

I am wondering whether you saw any rebate (Edmund:$2000) currently on Maxima98. The dealers in SD/CA area acted like knowing nothing about it.

N/A

Hey WWWREMOTE: Re: your #32 comments/ Maxima rebate.
Where were you told about this $2250 rebate ? CA ?? I was told by my local dealers nothing is there as far as rebate concerns for 98Maxima.

N/A

Sorry, last post was wwwremote, and yes, is California. South Bay in LA.

jonh

Hi,
I'd like to resurrect this old thread. I tried negotiating for a Mitsubishi Montero Sport last night. The dealer showed me the invoice and it had the extras mentioned by Niemeyer5. I didn't know how to respond so walked away from an "Invoice plus 500" deal. The extras came to about $1400 over the invoice total as listed in Edmunds. The dealer invoice total was in fact $700 over the Edmund's invoice plus 3% deal I was trying to get. I suspect that the extra charges are bogus and that the dealer does not have to pay these charges. I think the extras are a way of building in a sizeable profit into the invoice price. Note that one of the extras is "holdback", i.e. money that Mitsubishi will pay back later to the dealer. Perhaps all of the extras work like that: they are charges that Mitsubishi will kickback to the dealer later. Does anyone have more information on Mitsubishi's practices? Can I expect to get the car for Edmunds Invoice + 3% ?

devils

I'm looking at new Dodge Dakota pick-ups. A local dealer has a few 97s left that they are advertising as "blow-out" prices. If I use the dealer invoice as a guide, they are telling the truth. But, if I look at used car price guides...like Kelley or Edmunds, they are still quite high. So, does a "new" 97 that a dealer is trying to clear out fit into the new vehicle category or used car category and what should I use as a pricing reference?

gcr4

I'm seriously considering a purchase of a Ford vehicle, but all of the rebates ended on January 5. I don't know if I should buy one now, or wait for a new rebate program.

Does anyone out there know if Ford is a planning a new rebate program soon? If not, what is the historical pattern for rebate programs (Spring, Summer, etc.)?

My situation allows me to wait a few months before the purchase, but if there is no good reason for waiting, I might as well buy now.

door

You're in good hands if you can wait. And you
do not have to wait long. It is very dificult
for a car dealer to sell cars in winter,
especially right after X-mas. Sales are scarse,
so companies like Ford issue new rebates as soon
as old ones expire.
I suggest get your rebates information from your
local major newspaper. Consult with a car dealer
but do that with several since they tend to not
give out complete information. Good luck.

GregAnderson

Just a note to jonh:

Mitsubishi is the only manufacturer that practices CHARGING the consumer the holdback amount, right on the invoice. It's actually a very consumer-friendly practice in that it alerts you to the fact that there is such a thing as holdback. No other factory invoice admits it.

And you don't have to pay it. If you agree to pay the holdback, you are in fact giving the dealer his kickback, which is 2% of the Total MSRP. That's actually a fair profit for the dealer, and a fair price for the car, as long as you only pay invoice in addition to the holdback.

mkoehler

I'm looking to buy a new 1998 Ford ZX2. Are there any rebates or incentives for the week of 1/20 to 1/25? Let me know. Thanks.

rozelle

Just received a quote from a Philadelphia area dealer on a new 1997 Pontiac Bonneville. He included a $2,000 rebate on the quote -- or low-rate financing. I do not see any rebates for Pontiac Bonneville's -- 1997 or 1998 -- on Edmund's site. Is there a $2,000 rebate available and, if so, when does it expire?

Thanks for any help you can provide!

jonh

Thanks, GregAnderson, for the response. I guess that Mitsubishi's practice of adding the holdback to the invoice allows them to have a lower invoice price for the car and options. Other manufacturers must build this into that price. Mitsubishi lists several charges along with holdback on the invoice. Some can even be larger than holdback. The names:
Sales Promotion Fund
Dealer Advertising Assn.
Dealer Flooring Assistance
seem to imply that they are also rebated to the dealer. In order to properly compare deals I think Edmunds needs to list these added charges for all manufacturers. I realize that this is all a game and that the dealers will always be a step ahead of the consumers, but we have to try to keep up. Having as full information as possible on the dealer's cost is a great help.

edcamry

Does anyone know what the invoice, factory to dealer incentive, and the factory holdback are for the Camry 2544 sedan XLE V6 in North Carolina or where I can get this information ? It is not available to Edmund's.

rsalangs

How does one negotiate the dealer holdback? We are purchasing a Dodge Ram pickup. From the Edmunds site, a 3% of MSRP for Dodge is noted. Does this apply to ALL Dodge lines including RAM pickups? We are being charged a DAA of $440 and $25 misc. Is this right?

CarMan@Edmunds

In answer to your question, mkoehler, there are rebates running on the ZX2. The ZX2 is essentially a more expensive trim level of the Ford Escort, and currently their incentives are the same. Right now, ZX2 customers can choose either $1,000 Consumer Cash or 2.9% financing 12-48 months and 5.9% 49-60 months.

CarMan@Edmunds

Yes, rsalangs the 3% Dealer Holdback applies to all Chrysler models including Dodge trucks. The holdback amount for this model will be 3% of the net vehicle price including options, but excluding freight and handling charges, preparation, and advertising charges.

Keep in mind that the price level of a vehicle depends a great deal upon the current demand for that vehicle in the marketplace. Very hot vehicles are usually sold at or near the actual sticker price, and last month the Dodge Ram Pickup was the 6th best selling vehicle in the whole country.

As for the other charges that you mentioned, they are always negotiable. If you don't like them tell the dealer that you won't pay them and see what he says. Sometimes thay'll go for it and sometimes they won't. It can't hurt.

Good Hunting...

gmspa

Subject to specific consumer protection laws in a given state, if you sign a contract without conditioning it upon delivery of the ordered car within the rebate period, the dealer can hold you to the contract even if the rebate expires before delivery.

2lmaker

I haven't read much here or at the Edmund's site or anywhere regarding demonstrator models.

I've been shopping for a Ford Explorer XLT in the northwest Pennsylvania area. I've been inquiring about 1997 models in hopes of getting a better deal. A local dealership is offering a very nice
'97 Explorer with 6,000 miles on it. I was told that the vehicle was driven by the owner's (or manager's) wife. (I get the impression that when salespeople, managers, and family members get cars to drive from the dealership they are limited to driving these cars for 6,000 mi. only.) This Explorer I'm interested in is in the show room with the original retail sticker in the window.

I'm wondering: Is this a new vehicle or a used vehicle? I consider it used but maybe there's some federal, state, or local something-or-other that says a 6k mi. vehicle can be sold as new. If I am right and it is used, how do I figure depreciation off the sticker? Is the dealer still getting holdback? How about holdover allowance for last year's models?

If anyone can answer these questions, please do so on this forum, ASAP. Thank you much!

guitarzan

Here is a simple (not the only) solution. Find out the wholesale value and the trade in value for a used XLT with 6000 miles on it. You may use Edmunds or Kelly Blue book (kbb.com) or both. The fair price is somewhere in between.

I don't know what the law says about the truck, or if it has been titled to the dealership or not. But I don't think you should let the law determine what the vehicle is worth. That is for you to do.

russia22

Changing the subject slightly with a new question. I was looking at the Edmunds incentives page, and under the customer incentives for a 1997 Mazda Millenia it said $4,000. I called Mazda customer service to confirm this and they told me I was crazy (in so many words). I am reading this wrong? The paragraph introducing that section says items in the customer incentive area are factory-to-customer incentives if you buy that vehicle, right? If Mazda is right and I had relied on Edmunds' info, I would have been $4,000 poorer.

Thoughts?